Re: So long and thanks for all the fish.

[Eugene Lazutkin]

Regarding mailing lists being archaic and all. Why not use a web
interface? Because it doesn't feel too mailing-listy?

1) Gmane hosts both major Dojo lists (contributors and users):

http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.dojo.devel
http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.dojo.user

From these links you can open our mailing lists as forums use two types
of UI (threaded and blog-like). You can even post from the UI.

Or you can access these mailing lists using your favorite NNTP reader
--- that's what I do using Thunderbird. It allows me to run filters on
new messages to alert me of something of interest using tags, stars, and
other bells and whistles specific for my own interests --- something I
could not do with the hosted solution.

Again, you can post through NNTP too. In fact that what I am doing now
with this post.

2) Nabble hosts the Dojo forum (the users mailing list) as well with a
great UI:

http://www.nabble.com/Dojo-(2)-f36462.html

What is wrong with these options?

Thanks,

Eugene Lazutkin
Dojo Toolkit, Committer
http://lazutkin.com/

On 08/13/2009 07:17 AM, Ben Hockey wrote:

> couldn't help but notice that your signature does not include dojo's  
> most recent (and what is intended to be the most complete and  
> authoritative) documentation effort http://docs.dojocampus.org/
>
> does this mean you aren't aware of these docs/wiki?  if so, does it  
> change your mind about leaving?
>
> i certainly agree with you, that in my opinion, mailing lists in  
> general are archaic and do not lend themselves to being a good  
> reference.  even though the list is archived online, it has been my  
> experience that it's not really user friendly - an ironic point of  
> contact for a toolkit that is used to build rich internet applications.
>
> this has certainly been something of great debate recently and  
> hopefully an appropriate solution will be found.  you shouldn't have  
> to work so hard to get something for free :)
>
> ben...
>
>
> On Aug 13, 2009, at 7:42 AM, jax@... wrote:
>
>> I have always had a hard time trying to convince my co workers of  
>> Dojo's possibilities, due to its poor and/or confusing documentation  
>> and samples.
>>
>> But now that Dojo's support & 'community' has come down to nothing  
>> more then a mailinglist and a closed down forum tucked away  
>> somewhere on the site, I can no longer defend Dojo among my  
>> colleagues.
>>
>> I wish you all the best of luck in your efforts. This is were the  
>> Dojo road ends for me.
>>
>> Jax
>> _______________________________________________
>> FAQ: http://dojotoolkit.org/support/faq
>> Book: http://dojotoolkit.org/docs/book
>> Forums: http://dojotoolkit.org/forum
>> Dojo-interest@...
>> http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-interest
>
> _______________________________________________
> FAQ: http://dojotoolkit.org/support/faq
> Book: http://dojotoolkit.org/docs/book
> Forums: http://dojotoolkit.org/forum
> Dojo-interest@...
> http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-interest
>

_______________________________________________
FAQ: http://dojotoolkit.org/support/faq
Book: http://dojotoolkit.org/docs/book
Forums: http://dojotoolkit.org/forum
Dojo-interest@...
http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-interest

[Eugene Lazutkin]

I am sorry that we are losing you as a user. I hope that after working
with another toolkit for 2-3 months you will write a small post here
detailing your most memorable impressions comparing and contrasting them
with Dojo --- this kind of analysis is invaluable for us and will help
us to improve Dojo. And maybe one day you'll select Dojo again for your
projects.

Sorry to see you go. Best wishes and good luck!

Eugene Lazutkin
Dojo Toolkit, Committer
http://lazutkin.com/


On 08/14/2009 02:59 AM, jax@... wrote:

> Hi Dylan,
>
>> We had become very frustrated with the forums for a number of reasons:
>>
>> * drupal's forum solution isn't very good
>> * tons of spam (we'd spend more time fighting off spam than answering
>> questions)
>> * lots of unanswered questions
>
> But surely the first two problems can easily be fixed by simply switching to different forum software, no? And the unanswered questions problem might be a reason to investigate WHY so many questions go unanswered.. Is it perhaps because these questions get asked all the time? Is it because people simply don't have the answer or can't find the answer? Or is it because the forum software itself makes replying successfully an adventure (missing replies and the like)? In reality a mailing list will end up having many unanswered questions as well. The only difference is that they don't keep popping up all the time in your mailbox..
>
>> The comparison with Ext is interesting.  Ext is for practical purposes a
>> single company creating a toolkit under licenses that generally require
>> you to pay a license or go through them for support, whereas Dojo is
>> purely driven by the community, and does not ever require paying for
>> licensing.
>
> True. Vendor locking might become a problem with Ext Js. But paying a license fee is not really an issue (after all, if I can save only two (!) hours of frustrated searching for answers I can easily justify a license fee) and support (by means of a very active forum :-) is free.
>  
>> As Pete said, in terms of code quality and
>> performance, Dojo really is leading the way.
>
> And that is exactly what frustrates me the most. I am now at the point where I am willing to make sacrifices with a toolkit. Knowing that a different toolkit will not provide me with all the functionality I need, but because I have better tools/help/documentation available it will be less hassle to simply reinvent the wheel.
>
> That's pretty sad don't you think ?
>
> Cheers
>
> Jax
> _______________________________________________
> FAQ: http://dojotoolkit.org/support/faq
> Book: http://docs.dojocampus.org
> Dojo-interest@...
> http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-interest
>

_______________________________________________
FAQ: http://dojotoolkit.org/support/faq
Book: http://docs.dojocampus.org
Dojo-interest@...
http://mail.dojotoolkit.org/mailman/listinfo/dojo-interest