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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by VANKEISBELCK Remi-2
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Hello Matt,
No pun intended, but I don't understand the logic here...
If you really feel Stripes is great, but suffers from
"undermarketing", then why didn't you mention it in your blog ?
Folks like you are probably our best way to market Stripes, being a
well known blogger in the JEE space with established reputation...
Us, poor anonymous coders, don't have such power when it comes to
"spread the word". We can talk about Stripes in technical words, but
we don't have thousands of decision makers listening to us.
Stripes suffers under-marketing simply because it's been created by
techies for techies, not by people who's job is to hijack each thread
in every forum, just to sell their "shit".
We, Stripes users and devs, have more interesting stuff to do : push
what we think is the best MVC out there, and mof of all, use tools
that make us more productive. We live by selling apps, not paperware
or over-hyped articles.
Last, I feel your comments "unfair" (once again no offense, just
constructive criticism), as I don't think most of the frameworks you
present in your blog entry are accepted as wide scale solutions in the
IT industry (Grails, Wicket etc.).
It's easy to surf the hype wave. RIA and other Ajax stuff have all
eyes on them at the moment, so I guess blogging about them make many
hits... What's more complex is to try to go the opposite way, defend
principles you think are better, and resist the FUD.
So, in the end, wasn't that blog entry a perfect place to talk about Stripes ?
Cheers
Remi
On Nov 14, 2007 6:34 AM, mraible <matt@...> wrote:
>
> I agree that Stripes is an excellent framework. However, I also believe it
> needs better marketing. It's virtually unknown because there aren't that
> many articles, books or blogs posted about it. I've tried to sell it to
> companies on my last two projects and it's often shunned because no one has
> heard of it. Also, there's no "poster child" application that proves it's a
> great framework for a large-scale deployment.
>
> I definitely like it and would prefer to use it when developing an
> application that needs a request-based framework. However, it's been very
> difficult to convince companies that it's a good idea.
>
> More and more, I'm seeing Spring MVC chosen by companies because they are
> already using Spring in the middle-tier or backend. It's unfortunate, but I
> can also understand the justification behind it.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> Gregg Bolinger-7 wrote:
> >
> > I know Stripes is young but its really solid. However, it doesn't
> > hardly get a blip on the "which framework" radar. I think this is
> > primarily because it's not a component framework. (thanks God).
> > Example, it was left off Matt Raible's latest blog entry:
> >
> > http://raibledesigns.com/rd/entry/comparing_web_frameworks_time_for
> >
> > I thought about leaving a comment but I don't really see the point. I'm
> > content to keep using it regardless of mass appeal. I just hope that
> > there are enough folks that feel the same way so that it keeps being
> > developed. What I don't understand is why other developers think that
> > convoluted monolithic beasts like Seam and Wicket are supperior? And
> > what's up with GWT being on that list as a Web Framework? It's a client
> > side rendering engine. Same with Flex and OpenLazslo. You can't
> > develop anything without server side code which neither frameworks
> > provide. Oh well.
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop.
> > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stripes-users mailing list
> > Stripes-users@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Stripes-Ignored...Again-tf4800043.html#a13740290
> Sent from the stripes-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop.
> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Stripes-users mailing list
> Stripes-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop.
Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
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_______________________________________________
Stripes-users mailing list
Stripes-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users
No pun intended, but I don't understand the logic here...
If you really feel Stripes is great, but suffers from
"undermarketing", then why didn't you mention it in your blog ?
Folks like you are probably our best way to market Stripes, being a
well known blogger in the JEE space with established reputation...
Us, poor anonymous coders, don't have such power when it comes to
"spread the word". We can talk about Stripes in technical words, but
we don't have thousands of decision makers listening to us.
Stripes suffers under-marketing simply because it's been created by
techies for techies, not by people who's job is to hijack each thread
in every forum, just to sell their "shit".
We, Stripes users and devs, have more interesting stuff to do : push
what we think is the best MVC out there, and mof of all, use tools
that make us more productive. We live by selling apps, not paperware
or over-hyped articles.
Last, I feel your comments "unfair" (once again no offense, just
constructive criticism), as I don't think most of the frameworks you
present in your blog entry are accepted as wide scale solutions in the
IT industry (Grails, Wicket etc.).
It's easy to surf the hype wave. RIA and other Ajax stuff have all
eyes on them at the moment, so I guess blogging about them make many
hits... What's more complex is to try to go the opposite way, defend
principles you think are better, and resist the FUD.
So, in the end, wasn't that blog entry a perfect place to talk about Stripes ?
Cheers
Remi
On Nov 14, 2007 6:34 AM, mraible <matt@...> wrote:
>
> I agree that Stripes is an excellent framework. However, I also believe it
> needs better marketing. It's virtually unknown because there aren't that
> many articles, books or blogs posted about it. I've tried to sell it to
> companies on my last two projects and it's often shunned because no one has
> heard of it. Also, there's no "poster child" application that proves it's a
> great framework for a large-scale deployment.
>
> I definitely like it and would prefer to use it when developing an
> application that needs a request-based framework. However, it's been very
> difficult to convince companies that it's a good idea.
>
> More and more, I'm seeing Spring MVC chosen by companies because they are
> already using Spring in the middle-tier or backend. It's unfortunate, but I
> can also understand the justification behind it.
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> Gregg Bolinger-7 wrote:
> >
> > I know Stripes is young but its really solid. However, it doesn't
> > hardly get a blip on the "which framework" radar. I think this is
> > primarily because it's not a component framework. (thanks God).
> > Example, it was left off Matt Raible's latest blog entry:
> >
> > http://raibledesigns.com/rd/entry/comparing_web_frameworks_time_for
> >
> > I thought about leaving a comment but I don't really see the point. I'm
> > content to keep using it regardless of mass appeal. I just hope that
> > there are enough folks that feel the same way so that it keeps being
> > developed. What I don't understand is why other developers think that
> > convoluted monolithic beasts like Seam and Wicket are supperior? And
> > what's up with GWT being on that list as a Web Framework? It's a client
> > side rendering engine. Same with Flex and OpenLazslo. You can't
> > develop anything without server side code which neither frameworks
> > provide. Oh well.
> >
> > Gregg
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop.
> > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Stripes-users mailing list
> > Stripes-users@...
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Stripes-Ignored...Again-tf4800043.html#a13740290
> Sent from the stripes-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop.
> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Stripes-users mailing list
> Stripes-users@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc.
Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop.
Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser.
Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/
_______________________________________________
Stripes-users mailing list
Stripes-users@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users
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