Re: The meaning of Integrated

In defense of Eclipse (yes, I like Eclipse better),

What exactly do people consider "usable"? A bunch of people have said they
had to wade through tons of plugins and extra installs to make it work.

Eclipse has a few distros, including an EE distro that has built in support
for EAR, WAR and EJB creation for editing the descriptors etc, a Java
edition with some extra java stuff and CV, C/C++ (which I have not tried)
and Classic (which I use).

The only plugin I install is Checkstyles (which is in no way required to
make anything work, obviously).  The complete bare minimum installation of
Eclipse is a much more stable, faster, less memory hungry IDE that is
undoubtedly faster and more feature rich in terms of sitting down and
writing code.

So, again, in defense of Eclipse, what do you mean when you say its
unusable?  In my experience, out of the box it's one of the best free tools
I've ever used (possibly the best).

I like NetBeans for some things, but I feel like it tries to do too much
parenting of its private user data cache and project setup files.  It's too
overbearing of the projects, very inflexible in terms of how you
configure/customize the setup and layout of your project.  The recent
releases are getting better (allowing you to define relative paths to
external jars, for example) but it's still got a long way to go to be a
really powerful IDE in my opinion.

P.S.

I've never had Eclipse crash on me, in years... NetBeans has crashed on me
atleast 5 times this week (yes, there has only been one work day thus far
this week).  I will defend NetBeans a bit and admit that this is probably
from the Visual Web pack plugin and some other the other more fancy/advanced
things that it tries to do that Eclipse doesn't, but nevertheless, it still
crashes and Eclipse doesn't.

I have no choice but to use NetBeans on a daily basis side-by-side with
Eclipse, so I make due the best I can.  I spend the time to learn the
shortcuts, the equivalent useful things; such as Open type (Ctrl+O in NB,
Shift+Ctrl+T in Eclipse), Fix imports etc.  It appears to me these are
obvious and necessary features to make life better for a developer, but it's
funny how similarly they function to the way Eclipse implemented them.  In
general, they are also much slower then the Eclipse equivalent.

I hate to bash NetBeans so much, because it is a good IDE.  But being a Java
IDE, it shares a lot of features in common with Eclipse, and I happen to
think that Eclipse does just about all of those shared features better,
faster, more efficiently and without any bugs.


Alex Sherwin
alex.sherwin@...

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Greenberg [mailto:gary.greenberg@...]
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 11:02 PM
To: nbusers@...

Subject: RE: [nbusers] The meaning of Integrated

Let's just call it DDE (disintegrated development environment) :-))

I worked with both Netbeans and Eclipse (and IntelliJ Idea too).
IMHO, Netbeans is much more integrated then Eclipse (by the order of
magnitude).
I did not use Eclipse for over 2 years but I remember well all the
plugin hell I had to wade through to make it work.
Netbeans installation in comparison was a breeze.

Cheers,
       Gary

-----Original Message-----
From: Kurt Olsen [mailto:kolsen@...]
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2008 7:32 PM
To: nbusers@...
Subject: Re: [nbusers] The meaning of Integrated

Regarding Eclipse, no actually, I download the standard version then add

the subversion plugin. That's all.
And I can download versions of Netbeans and Eclipse that include Java if

I'm not mistaken.

The point folks, is that integrated is, or isn't, and we're getting away

from an 'integration level' that is useful.
I'm trying to point out that there was a reason IDE's were create.
And when you require a lot of customization, or additional software,
then you are NOT integrated.
It's about that simple. If you integrate, then do all of it, or at least

provide wizards to help with the 'extra installs'.
If you don't do either of those, then you aren't integrated.
As usual, thanks for listening, and the feedback.

Take care,
Kurt


> And from the stories we here, apparently you have to also download and

> install a whole load of plugins in order to get Eclipse to do anything

> useful.
>
>
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Will Hartung <mailto:willh@...>
>     *To:* nbusers@... <mailto:nbusers@...>
>     *Sent:* Monday, July 14, 2008 8:22 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [nbusers] The meaning of Integrated
>
>
>     On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Kurt Olsen
>     <kolsen@...
>     <mailto:kolsen@...>> wrote:
>
>         If you can't install the
>         whole--thing-tool-module-whatever-here - YOU ARE NOT
INTEGRATED!
>
>
>     Funny, all of the IDEs I know require you to install an Operating
>     System and Java before they'll run.
>
>     All of the IDEs I know of need you to install the appropriate DB
>     drivers if you want to use any of the database functionality.
>
>     My IDE didn't come with a keyboard or mouse either, yet it seems
>     to require those in order for me to interact with it. Pretty
>     arrogant of it I think.
>
>
>     No virus found in this incoming message.
>     Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>     Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.10/1551 - Release Date:
7/14/2008 6:49 AM
>
>