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Re: Trinidad vs Tobago
by Luka Surija
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Andrew,
it's always the same reason.
Trinidad is too complicated do extend without strong knowledge:
1. in it's architecture isn't well documented
2. in maven-faces-plugin
I'm familiar with your wiki page (
http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/Facelets_and_JSF_1.1_maven-faces-plugin_Getting_started
) but, as you can see it takes too much effort to make a simple hello
world component and I think this is a main reason why there is almost no
new components in last 2 years. I'm using trinidad since m1-incubating
version and I'm tracking all the changes. In my opinion trinidad is
potentialy "the" best jsf framework currently available, but it lacks
some features to make it the best:
1. More components
2. easier component development
3. new AJAX under-layer to track component changes (to allow push
technology one day). See ICEFaces as a example how to make a framework
so popular with this technology. But in the background it lacks so many
thing and nobody cares. I've tried ICEFaces, and for "hello world"
application is ok, but for anything more complex, trinidad is 100x
better and more developer friendly + has better browser compatibility.
4. wow skin to make him more attractive.
I'm sure that many trinidad users (developers) are willing to contribute
to the community starting from my self if they knew how to do it in
some easier way.
Best regards,
Luka Surija
+385 1 61 99 140
+385 98 434 061
luka@...
I.Y. tim d.o.o.
Vrbik 3, HR-10000 Zagreb
www.iytim.hr
info@...
Andrew Robinson wrote:
> I would not jump to just saying "that's totally wrong ..." when there
> is truth to the observation. I cannot speak for Tobago, but there are
> areas of Trinidad that have not significantly changed in years. This
> may give the impression that there is not much ongoing development.
> What you find with Trinidad is that the server side framework is very
> well supported, as well as the components classes, but the Renderers,
> skins and JavaScript of Trinidad are very much neglected.
>
> This is probably a result of many that extend Trinidad but do not
> necessarily contribute those extensions back. There is a Trinidad
> Sandbox, but unlike Tomahawk, there is no activity in it for the most
> part. I am not sure why this is and what we can do to motivate our
> users to provide new components and enhancements to existing
> components.
>
> So as a result, you will probably find that Trinidad is very solid,
> the server side keeps up to date with other libraries and with some
> new JSF technologies and there is a great community of support at the
> framework level. Just what is lacking is active support of the
> component offerings and the look and feel of Trinidad.
>
> As Apache relies on its users quite a bit, new patches, and new
> components are welcome, especially for the sandbox as it is a great
> testing ground for new ideas without having to perform all the
> architectural discussions up front. Then components can be brought
> into the core as they gain popularity and their architecture can be
> standardized if not already.
>
> -Andrew
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Matthias Wessendorf <matzew@...> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 2:21 AM, Christian Groove
>> <groovie@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Salut
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> We are developing a web application with myfaces.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That's fine, JSF is the cool think. I worked with
>>> Tobago, that comes with a great layout manager
>>> and some cool widgets.
>>>
>>> It is not my intention to overwhelm that nice
>>> project but it seems to be dead. The development
>>>
>> that's totally wrong ...
>>
>>
>>> of new widgets seems not to proceed so you may
>>> better look to other Taglibs like Richfaces, Icefaces.
>>>
>>> Groovy
>>>
>>>> This application needs proper navigation and UI .I have observed Trinidad
>>>> has good navigation practices and other utilities.Tobago has some good
>>>> layouts but not good navigation practices.both these technologies have
>>>> featurs like PPR.
>>>>
>>>> could some one plaese advice us which is the better technology and the
>>>> distinct features of these technologies.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Srikanth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Matthias Wessendorf
>>
>> blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
>> sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf
>> twitter: http://twitter.com/mwessendorf
>>
>>
>
>
it's always the same reason.
Trinidad is too complicated do extend without strong knowledge:
1. in it's architecture isn't well documented
2. in maven-faces-plugin
I'm familiar with your wiki page (
http://wiki.apache.org/myfaces/Facelets_and_JSF_1.1_maven-faces-plugin_Getting_started
) but, as you can see it takes too much effort to make a simple hello
world component and I think this is a main reason why there is almost no
new components in last 2 years. I'm using trinidad since m1-incubating
version and I'm tracking all the changes. In my opinion trinidad is
potentialy "the" best jsf framework currently available, but it lacks
some features to make it the best:
1. More components
2. easier component development
3. new AJAX under-layer to track component changes (to allow push
technology one day). See ICEFaces as a example how to make a framework
so popular with this technology. But in the background it lacks so many
thing and nobody cares. I've tried ICEFaces, and for "hello world"
application is ok, but for anything more complex, trinidad is 100x
better and more developer friendly + has better browser compatibility.
4. wow skin to make him more attractive.
I'm sure that many trinidad users (developers) are willing to contribute
to the community starting from my self if they knew how to do it in
some easier way.
Best regards,
Luka Surija
+385 1 61 99 140
+385 98 434 061
luka@...
I.Y. tim d.o.o.
Vrbik 3, HR-10000 Zagreb
www.iytim.hr
info@...
Andrew Robinson wrote:
> I would not jump to just saying "that's totally wrong ..." when there
> is truth to the observation. I cannot speak for Tobago, but there are
> areas of Trinidad that have not significantly changed in years. This
> may give the impression that there is not much ongoing development.
> What you find with Trinidad is that the server side framework is very
> well supported, as well as the components classes, but the Renderers,
> skins and JavaScript of Trinidad are very much neglected.
>
> This is probably a result of many that extend Trinidad but do not
> necessarily contribute those extensions back. There is a Trinidad
> Sandbox, but unlike Tomahawk, there is no activity in it for the most
> part. I am not sure why this is and what we can do to motivate our
> users to provide new components and enhancements to existing
> components.
>
> So as a result, you will probably find that Trinidad is very solid,
> the server side keeps up to date with other libraries and with some
> new JSF technologies and there is a great community of support at the
> framework level. Just what is lacking is active support of the
> component offerings and the look and feel of Trinidad.
>
> As Apache relies on its users quite a bit, new patches, and new
> components are welcome, especially for the sandbox as it is a great
> testing ground for new ideas without having to perform all the
> architectural discussions up front. Then components can be brought
> into the core as they gain popularity and their architecture can be
> standardized if not already.
>
> -Andrew
>
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Matthias Wessendorf <matzew@...> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 2:21 AM, Christian Groove
>> <groovie@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Salut
>>>
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> We are developing a web application with myfaces.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> That's fine, JSF is the cool think. I worked with
>>> Tobago, that comes with a great layout manager
>>> and some cool widgets.
>>>
>>> It is not my intention to overwhelm that nice
>>> project but it seems to be dead. The development
>>>
>> that's totally wrong ...
>>
>>
>>> of new widgets seems not to proceed so you may
>>> better look to other Taglibs like Richfaces, Icefaces.
>>>
>>> Groovy
>>>
>>>> This application needs proper navigation and UI .I have observed Trinidad
>>>> has good navigation practices and other utilities.Tobago has some good
>>>> layouts but not good navigation practices.both these technologies have
>>>> featurs like PPR.
>>>>
>>>> could some one plaese advice us which is the better technology and the
>>>> distinct features of these technologies.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Srikanth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> --
>> Matthias Wessendorf
>>
>> blog: http://matthiaswessendorf.wordpress.com/
>> sessions: http://www.slideshare.net/mwessendorf
>> twitter: http://twitter.com/mwessendorf
>>
>>
>
>
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