Recent firing?

[MZMcBride]

Hey all --

Just heard that Steve Kent (Head of Office IT Support) got fired. Is this
just a wild rumor? If not, what's the backstory?

MZMcBride
public@...



_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/10/30 MZMcBride <public@...>:
> Hey all --
>
> Just heard that Steve Kent (Head of Office IT Support) got fired. Is this
> just a wild rumor? If not, what's the backstory?

He's still listed on http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Staff

Where did you hear it?

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Erik Moeller-4]

We don't comment on personnel rumors and speculation and will make
announcements when and where appropriate.
--
Erik Möller
Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[geni]

2009/10/30 Erik Moeller <erik@...>:
> We don't comment on personnel rumors and speculation and will make
> announcements when and where appropriate.

So yes then.

Erik this is the wikimedia community you are dealing with. All those
wikipedians are not only rather good at finding things out but tend to
raise rumors and speculation to a science. Announcements when and
where appropriate isn't really working out to well (or did you really
mean for the information on your office move to drip out like that?).
Announce early announce often. Won't have that much impact on the rate
of information flow and means that you face fewer problems of other
people getting to put their spin on the information first.

--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Nathan Awrich]

Why would you even ask that question, let alone expect an answer? Last
I checked, no Wikimedian also carried the title of "majority
shareholder" or anything close. You're not entitled to sordid details
of personnel management. Try to remember that the Wikimedia Foundation
is a business, and needs to operate with more professionalism than
"announce everything announce often."


Nathan

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Anthony-73]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Nathan <nawrich@...> wrote:
> Why would you even ask that question, let alone expect an answer?

There are lots of people who contribute to this mailing list who
aren't staff members or otherwise encumbered by confidentiality
agreements.  Maybe one of them knows what happened and is willing to
share.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Anthony-73]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 5:05 PM, geni <geniice@...> wrote:
> Announcements when and where appropriate isn't really working out to well

Announcements when or where not appropriate would work out even worse,
though. :)

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[geni]

2009/10/30 Nathan <nawrich@...>:
> Why would you even ask that question, let alone expect an answer?

Nothing wrong with taking the direct approach. It's also a fairly
effective way of letting the foundation know they have a potential
issue.

>Last
> I checked, no Wikimedian also carried the title of "majority
> shareholder" or anything close. You're not entitled to sordid details
> of personnel management.

Zee relevance being?

>Try to remember that the Wikimedia Foundation
> is a business, and needs to operate with more professionalism than
> "announce everything announce often."

It's an approach that can be quite professional depending on what you are doing.

--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Huib!]

Hello,

I normally only read this list because I don't see the need to get
really involved into discussion a lot, but while reading this I had the
feeling that I should respond.

As far as I see it there was been a question and it has been answered
with the answer that Erik isn't going to respond on rumours and will
make a announcement when needed, so why does pushing for a answer?

Wouldn't it be better to sit back and wait of and when there will be a
announcement? Its just like Wikipedia we can't think trust something
untill its verified and pushing isn't going to help :)

Best regards,
Huib

--
*Huib Laurens*

Web: Forgotten-beauty.com <http://www.forgotten-beauty.com.com/>
Email: Abigor@... <mailto:abigor@...>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[WJhonson]

 Evidently it's too late to wonder.  The staff page has been updated recently stating specifically that he is leaving on 30 Nov 2009.  Are you now saying that there's a rumor that that date has been moved up more?  The change was made in the last week on that page.

 

 

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[MZMcBride]

MZMcBride wrote:
> Just heard that Steve Kent (Head of Office IT Support) got fired.
> Is this just a wild rumor? If not, what's the backstory?

Erik just updated the staff template (about half an hour ago).[1] Seems the
rumor is true.

MZMcBride
public@...

[1]
http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?diff=40742&oldid=40670&diffonly=1



_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/10/30 MZMcBride <public@...>:
> MZMcBride wrote:
>> Just heard that Steve Kent (Head of Office IT Support) got fired.
>> Is this just a wild rumor? If not, what's the backstory?
>
> Erik just updated the staff template (about half an hour ago).[1] Seems the
> rumor is true.

In my experience people don't usually work a month's notice when
they've been fired. So it would seem the rumour was only correct in as
much as that he is leaving, it is wrong about the manner of his
leaving. It would appear he has resigned, a far less interesting
occurrence, and thus not one the rumour mongers decided the spread.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Effe iets anders]

I think the community should be and is being treated as a majority
shareholder, even better! Office IT support is a typical thing that the
community is not affected by AT ALL. So I am not surprised no announcement
is being given on foundation-l about this. If any public list would be
relevant, it would be wikitech-l, but even there it would be doubtful. (not
even to speak about privacy issues)

We should get used to a situation where the foundation grows, and that more
hirings/firings (or farewells for other reasons) are going to take place
then up to now. It would simply not be practical to announce them all. I do
expect the foundation to announce community-relevant positions such as the
volunteer coordinator, CsomethingO's, board positions and other functions
that relate to the community more directly. Financial controllers, office
supports, personal assistants etc are just not relevant to the community,
and a change on the relevant webpages and maybe a periodic (anonymized?)
overview on monthly reports would make more sense. (2 hirings last month,
and three people left the foundation for example)

Lodewijk

2009/10/30 Nathan <nawrich@...>

> Why would you even ask that question, let alone expect an answer? Last
> I checked, no Wikimedian also carried the title of "majority
> shareholder" or anything close. You're not entitled to sordid details
> of personnel management. Try to remember that the Wikimedia Foundation
> is a business, and needs to operate with more professionalism than
> "announce everything announce often."
>
>
> Nathan
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@...
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/10/31 effe iets anders <effeietsanders@...>:
> We should get used to a situation where the foundation grows, and that more
> hirings/firings (or farewells for other reasons) are going to take place
> then up to now. It would simply not be practical to announce them all.

While it shouldn't be necessary to announce everything, I think it
would be advisable to because otherwise we will inevitably end up with
threads like this, where sensationalised rumours get spread because of
a lack of accurate information. If the community would just calm down
and not assume the worst all the time, the WMF could just get on with
doing their jobs, but unfortunately that isn't the case.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Andrew Turvey]

----- "Nathan" <nawrich@...> wrote:
>
> Try to remember that the Wikimedia Foundation
> is a business...

No it isn't - the Foundation is a charity. The Foundation needs to retain the confidence of the Wikimedia community in order to achieve its aims, and the community plays a big role in the Foundation through elected and chapter-selected board members. I'm sure it understands that.

Andrew


_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[WJhonson]

In a message dated 10/31/2009 8:51:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
thomas.dalton@... writes:


> where sensationalised rumours get spread because of
> a lack of accurate information.>>

I think it's a little pre-mature to say that it's a sensationalised rumour
speading because of a lack of accurate information.  What we know so far is
someone said "was he fired?" and now we know he has a last day posted.  It's
a little odd to work for only a few months at a job though.  So "fired"
wouldn't be a bad guess.  "Quit in a huff" could be another guess.

Will

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/10/31  <WJhonson@...>:

> In a message dated 10/31/2009 8:51:29 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> thomas.dalton@... writes:
>
>
>> where sensationalised rumours get spread because of
>> a lack of accurate information.>>
>
> I think it's a little pre-mature to say that it's a sensationalised rumour
> speading because of a lack of accurate information.  What we know so far is
> someone said "was he fired?" and now we know he has a last day posted.  It's
> a little odd to work for only a few months at a job though.  So "fired"
> wouldn't be a bad guess.  "Quit in a huff" could be another guess.

As I said above, he wouldn't be working a month's notice if he had
been fired. "Resigned by mutual agreement" is more likely. I guess
either a) he didn't fit in in the office, b) the job turned out to be
not quite what he was expecting or c) he had some kind of major change
of plan. None of those options really makes for a good rumour.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[WJhonson]

In a message dated 10/31/2009 12:24:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
thomas.dalton@... writes:


> As I said above, he wouldn't be working a month's notice if he had
> been fired. "Resigned by mutual agreement" is more likely. I guess
> either a) he didn't fit in in the office, b) the job turned out to be
> not quite what he was expecting or c) he had some kind of major change
> of plan. None of those options really makes for a good rumour.>>

Let me suggest another scenario.
Dear employee, you're fired, however, please don't tell anyone that you've
been fired, go away and don't show up, and we'll keep paying you for another
month.  If you open your mouth, we won't.

So it's also an assumption that he's "working".  At least in the office.

Will

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Thomas Dalton]

2009/10/31  <WJhonson@...>:

> In a message dated 10/31/2009 12:24:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> thomas.dalton@... writes:
>
>
>> As I said above, he wouldn't be working a month's notice if he had
>> been fired. "Resigned by mutual agreement" is more likely. I guess
>> either a) he didn't fit in in the office, b) the job turned out to be
>> not quite what he was expecting or c) he had some kind of major change
>> of plan. None of those options really makes for a good rumour.>>
>
> Let me suggest another scenario.
> Dear employee, you're fired, however, please don't tell anyone that you've
> been fired, go away and don't show up, and we'll keep paying you for another
> month.  If you open your mouth, we won't.
>
> So it's also an assumption that he's "working".  At least in the office.

It's possible, but since that would require the WMF to intentionally
mislead the community and there is no evidence to support it, I think
it is unlikely to be the case.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

[Jimmy Wales-3]

I agree with Lodewijk completely.  One of the best reasons for this is
simple human dignity.  People come and go from jobs all the time, it is
neither a scandal, nor a shame.  Public speculation about such stuff is
offensive and embarassing.

Yes, to community-facing positions.  Yes, to high-level positions.
Those things are relevant public information and can and should be
discussed.

But not every job is like that, nor should it be.

effe iets anders wrote:

> I think the community should be and is being treated as a majority
> shareholder, even better! Office IT support is a typical thing that the
> community is not affected by AT ALL. So I am not surprised no announcement
> is being given on foundation-l about this. If any public list would be
> relevant, it would be wikitech-l, but even there it would be doubtful. (not
> even to speak about privacy issues)
>
> We should get used to a situation where the foundation grows, and that more
> hirings/firings (or farewells for other reasons) are going to take place
> then up to now. It would simply not be practical to announce them all. I do
> expect the foundation to announce community-relevant positions such as the
> volunteer coordinator, CsomethingO's, board positions and other functions
> that relate to the community more directly. Financial controllers, office
> supports, personal assistants etc are just not relevant to the community,
> and a change on the relevant webpages and maybe a periodic (anonymized?)
> overview on monthly reports would make more sense. (2 hirings last month,
> and three people left the foundation for example)
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2009/10/30 Nathan <nawrich@...>
>
>> Why would you even ask that question, let alone expect an answer? Last
>> I checked, no Wikimedian also carried the title of "majority
>> shareholder" or anything close. You're not entitled to sordid details
>> of personnel management. Try to remember that the Wikimedia Foundation
>> is a business, and needs to operate with more professionalism than
>> "announce everything announce often."
>>
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> foundation-l@...
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@...
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@...
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l