Recipe Sharing Work

[Daniel Taylor-6]

Hey,

Thanks for setting up that wiki Thomas. Today I had some time to work
on the recipe sharing protocol so that we could use it both locally
and on the web with a central server to store and share recipes.

So far, I have been working on a standard format in which to store the
recipes. I like the fact that you are storing image data within the
XML file, and "stole" a few other ideas from Gourmet as well as using
some of my own. Since this will take some time to finalize and
implement I decided we should use tags instead of
category/cuisine/course/etc like you had mentioned.

I wrote up an example file and placed it here:
http://www.recipemanager.org/files/example.xml

I also learned DTD but then found out it is hardly used anymore in
favor of XML Schema, so I (sort of) learned that and have put up a
schema here:
http://www.recipemanager.org/schema/rspml10draft.xsd

The example xml file above shows a good example of the possible tags
and how a typical file might look. The schema should be readable
without learning how to write XML schemas, and shows which tags are
allowed where and which attributes they have (and what values those
attributes may contain). I'd like to ask for any additions to the set
values for e.g. ingredient amount units and such.

I have NOT included anything for nutritional information. I do like
the idea of ingredients having a key for shopping list generation, so
I included that as an optional child element for ingredients, which if
not present can be generated from the actual name. If you have any
ideas about how to include nutritional information please let me know.

After a little discussion here I plan to formally write everything up
in plain English and post it on the web, publish a final version of
the schema and start working on the XMLRPC API for sharing the data
(which will be very easy). I will then publish the XMLRPC API on the
web and begin work on integrating the changes into my prototype to get
local sharing working, and want to start work on a server-side app.

Should I set up a page on the wiki for the recipe sharing stuff?

Any comments or ideas are appreciated!
--
Daniel G. Taylor
http://programmer-art.org

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[Maria McKinley]

Hi everyone,

First, I need to confess that I have not actually used Gourmet software,
but I think it looks really cool and useful, and it is definitely on my
list of things to do. :-) I got on the mailing list some months ago,
because the project looked really interesting, and have been following
the discussions with interest. But, since you guys are actively building
new/improved software now, I thought I'd throw out an idea I've had for
a while. Your code is most of the way there (at least based on the
description on the web). Hopefully, I have understood the description of
your software well enough to know what it already does/doesn't do, and
this isn't all moot.

Actually integrating linux with a barscanner is beyond the scope of this
project, of course, but my idea is basically expanding the pantry idea
based on the assumption that it will soon be easy to tell your computer
what you have in your kitchen. I think it would be very cool if you
could scan in all of your groceries (hmm, actually what might be even
cooler is to just scan in your grocery store receipt), and then have
this database of your food interact with your recipe database, so you
could type in I want a recipe for chicken (or whatever you are craving),
and it will dump out a list of all of the recipes that you have all of
the ingredients for. Maybe even a list of suggested side dishes (some
way of linking recipes together, I guess). Or you could ask what are all
the recipes I have that take less than 30 minutes and I have all the
ingredients. Or I want something Indian. I guess you would have to
delete stuff as you use it as well, but that doesn't seem so bad. You
could scan the containers before you threw it out. You could also choose
any number of recipes that you always want to be able to make, and/or
recipes you want to be able to make in the coming week, and then when it
is time to shop, print out a grocery list based on what you already have
on hand. Short-term, I would be willing to enter food on hand manually
to have this sort of functionality. What do you guys think about the
feasibility of this sort of thing?

Keep up the great work, and I am looking forward to getting an hour or
two to install and play with Gourmet!

cheers,
maria

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[Thomas Mills Hinkle]

Maria,

I've always been skeptical about the usefulness of a scanning system like the one your talking about, because I can't imagine inputting all that data into my computer. That said, if we did create a plug-in architecture, it would allow someone else to implement such a system as a plug-in. This is just the kind of idea that justifies a plug-in architecture: it allows me to  prevent feature creep (and in my role as benevolent dictator of the project, I would prevent something like this from clogging up the interface for all users), but it allows innovation and customization by folks like you.

Whichever plug-ins seem most useful to the most people could potentially be activated by default. Everything else gets added.

I still don't know whether we'll implement a plug-in architecture -- it sounds like a good idea to me but it will require a good deal of work and a lot of careful planning at the outset to make sure it's useful.

Regardless, you should add your idea to the list of potential future plug-ins on the gourmet wiki here: http://grecipe-manager.wiki.sourceforge.net/Plugins

Tom

On Nov 16, 2007 2:29 PM, Maria McKinley <maria@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

First, I need to confess that I have not actually used Gourmet software,
but I think it looks really cool and useful, and it is definitely on my
list of things to do. :-) I got on the mailing list some months ago,
because the project looked really interesting, and have been following
the discussions with interest. But, since you guys are actively building
new/improved software now, I thought I'd throw out an idea I've had for
a while. Your code is most of the way there (at least based on the
description on the web). Hopefully, I have understood the description of
your software well enough to know what it already does/doesn't do, and
this isn't all moot.

Actually integrating linux with a barscanner is beyond the scope of this
project, of course, but my idea is basically expanding the pantry idea
based on the assumption that it will soon be easy to tell your computer
what you have in your kitchen. I think it would be very cool if you
could scan in all of your groceries (hmm, actually what might be even
cooler is to just scan in your grocery store receipt), and then have
this database of your food interact with your recipe database, so you
could type in I want a recipe for chicken (or whatever you are craving),
and it will dump out a list of all of the recipes that you have all of
the ingredients for. Maybe even a list of suggested side dishes (some
way of linking recipes together, I guess). Or you could ask what are all
the recipes I have that take less than 30 minutes and I have all the
ingredients. Or I want something Indian. I guess you would have to
delete stuff as you use it as well, but that doesn't seem so bad. You
could scan the containers before you threw it out. You could also choose
any number of recipes that you always want to be able to make, and/or
recipes you want to be able to make in the coming week, and then when it
is time to shop, print out a grocery list based on what you already have
on hand. Short-term, I would be willing to enter food on hand manually
to have this sort of functionality. What do you guys think about the
feasibility of this sort of thing?

Keep up the great work, and I am looking forward to getting an hour or
two to install and play with Gourmet!

cheers,
maria

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[Maria McKinley]

Hi Tom,

I imagine that the accumulation in the pantry would be rather gradual,
and I agree that unless you could just scan the receipt, or had a 10
year old to hire to input the groceries when you got home, one would be
unlikely to do this. But there is another possibility, and that is that
you just tell the computer what you didn't get from the grocery list you
printed out from grecipe.

But the scanning system was sort of just a jumping off point. What I
really want to be able to do is put in a bunch of ingredients (the
pantry) and be able to find recipes that use those ingredients. Plus use
other search terms to narrow the selection. I suspect it wouldn't
actually clog up the interface much, since it seems more like adding to
your search parameters. It is basically another comparison of two of
your databases (recipes and pantry), instead of comparing ingredients in
your pantry to create a shopping list, you are comparing your pantry to
your recipes to see what can be made. But, I don't know your software,
so I could be completely wrong about what the integration would be like,
and I get that whether a feature is popular is another reason to decide
to not make it part of the core. You may very well be right that not
enough people would find this useful enough to include in the core
distribution.

Thanks for your thoughts, and I will certainly add it to the dream page.

cheers,
maria


Thomas Mills Hinkle wrote:

> Maria,
>
> I've always been skeptical about the usefulness of a scanning system
> like the one your talking about, because I can't imagine inputting all
> that data into my computer. That said, if we did create a plug-in
> architecture, it would allow someone else to implement such a system as
> a plug-in. This is just the kind of idea that justifies a plug-in
> architecture: it allows me to  prevent feature creep (and in my role as
> benevolent dictator of the project, I would prevent something like this
> from clogging up the interface for all users), but it allows innovation
> and customization by folks like you.
>
> Whichever plug-ins seem most useful to the most people could potentially
> be activated by default. Everything else gets added.
>
> I still don't know whether we'll implement a plug-in architecture -- it
> sounds like a good idea to me but it will require a good deal of work
> and a lot of careful planning at the outset to make sure it's useful.
>
> Regardless, you should add your idea to the list of potential future
> plug-ins on the gourmet wiki here:
> http://grecipe-manager.wiki.sourceforge.net/Plugins 
> <http://grecipe-manager.wiki.sourceforge.net/Plugins>
>
> Tom
>
> On Nov 16, 2007 2:29 PM, Maria McKinley <maria@...
> <mailto:maria@...>> wrote:
>
>     Hi everyone,
>
>     First, I need to confess that I have not actually used Gourmet software,
>     but I think it looks really cool and useful, and it is definitely on my
>     list of things to do. :-) I got on the mailing list some months ago,
>     because the project looked really interesting, and have been following
>     the discussions with interest. But, since you guys are actively building
>     new/improved software now, I thought I'd throw out an idea I've had for
>     a while. Your code is most of the way there (at least based on the
>     description on the web). Hopefully, I have understood the description of
>     your software well enough to know what it already does/doesn't do, and
>     this isn't all moot.
>
>     Actually integrating linux with a barscanner is beyond the scope of this
>     project, of course, but my idea is basically expanding the pantry idea
>     based on the assumption that it will soon be easy to tell your computer
>     what you have in your kitchen. I think it would be very cool if you
>     could scan in all of your groceries (hmm, actually what might be even
>     cooler is to just scan in your grocery store receipt), and then have
>     this database of your food interact with your recipe database, so you
>     could type in I want a recipe for chicken (or whatever you are craving),
>     and it will dump out a list of all of the recipes that you have all of
>     the ingredients for. Maybe even a list of suggested side dishes (some
>     way of linking recipes together, I guess). Or you could ask what are all
>     the recipes I have that take less than 30 minutes and I have all the
>     ingredients. Or I want something Indian. I guess you would have to
>     delete stuff as you use it as well, but that doesn't seem so bad. You
>     could scan the containers before you threw it out. You could also choose
>     any number of recipes that you always want to be able to make, and/or
>     recipes you want to be able to make in the coming week, and then when it
>     is time to shop, print out a grocery list based on what you already have
>     on hand. Short-term, I would be willing to enter food on hand manually
>     to have this sort of functionality. What do you guys think about the
>     feasibility of this sort of thing?
>
>     Keep up the great work, and I am looking forward to getting an hour or
>     two to install and play with Gourmet!
>
>     cheers,
>     maria
>
>     -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>     Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005.
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>     _______________________________________________
>     Grecipe-manager-devel mailing list
>     Grecipe-manager-devel@...
>     <mailto:Grecipe-manager-devel@...>
>     https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/grecipe-manager-devel
>
>

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[D, H & M WHITE]

hi all-

i have been watching and reading with delight-

i have two small thoughts on design for pantry and shopping things to
contribute:

1/ limit the input (scan) to items (a) that perish quickly and /or (b)
things that seldom get used and thus every time you need them they are
either tasteless because of age (or supporting all sort of beasties) or are
simply not there.

2/ an interface between the recipes and the shopping list, ie a converter
like the nutritional one to handle "a handful of almonds" and 50 grams of
almonds to combine them into one purchasing item.

love what you are all doing, wish i could help with IT but not so.

cheers-don

-----Original Message-----
From: grecipe-manager-devel-bounces@...
[mailto:grecipe-manager-devel-bounces@...] On Behalf Of
Maria McKinley
Sent: Saturday, 17 November 2007 3:21 PM
To: grecipe-manager-devel@...
Subject: Re: [Grecipe-manager-devel] Recipe Sharing Work

Hi Tom,

I imagine that the accumulation in the pantry would be rather gradual,
and I agree that unless you could just scan the receipt, or had a 10
year old to hire to input the groceries when you got home, one would be
unlikely to do this. But there is another possibility, and that is that
you just tell the computer what you didn't get from the grocery list you
printed out from grecipe.

But the scanning system was sort of just a jumping off point. What I
really want to be able to do is put in a bunch of ingredients (the
pantry) and be able to find recipes that use those ingredients. Plus use
other search terms to narrow the selection. I suspect it wouldn't
actually clog up the interface much, since it seems more like adding to
your search parameters. It is basically another comparison of two of
your databases (recipes and pantry), instead of comparing ingredients in
your pantry to create a shopping list, you are comparing your pantry to
your recipes to see what can be made. But, I don't know your software,
so I could be completely wrong about what the integration would be like,
and I get that whether a feature is popular is another reason to decide
to not make it part of the core. You may very well be right that not
enough people would find this useful enough to include in the core
distribution.

Thanks for your thoughts, and I will certainly add it to the dream page.

cheers,
maria


Thomas Mills Hinkle wrote:

> Maria,
>
> I've always been skeptical about the usefulness of a scanning system
> like the one your talking about, because I can't imagine inputting all
> that data into my computer. That said, if we did create a plug-in
> architecture, it would allow someone else to implement such a system as
> a plug-in. This is just the kind of idea that justifies a plug-in
> architecture: it allows me to  prevent feature creep (and in my role as
> benevolent dictator of the project, I would prevent something like this
> from clogging up the interface for all users), but it allows innovation
> and customization by folks like you.
>
> Whichever plug-ins seem most useful to the most people could potentially
> be activated by default. Everything else gets added.
>
> I still don't know whether we'll implement a plug-in architecture -- it
> sounds like a good idea to me but it will require a good deal of work
> and a lot of careful planning at the outset to make sure it's useful.
>
> Regardless, you should add your idea to the list of potential future
> plug-ins on the gourmet wiki here:
> http://grecipe-manager.wiki.sourceforge.net/Plugins 
> <http://grecipe-manager.wiki.sourceforge.net/Plugins>
>
> Tom
>
> On Nov 16, 2007 2:29 PM, Maria McKinley <maria@...
> <mailto:maria@...>> wrote:
>
>     Hi everyone,
>
>     First, I need to confess that I have not actually used Gourmet

software,
>     but I think it looks really cool and useful, and it is definitely on
my
>     list of things to do. :-) I got on the mailing list some months ago,
>     because the project looked really interesting, and have been following
>     the discussions with interest. But, since you guys are actively
building
>     new/improved software now, I thought I'd throw out an idea I've had
for
>     a while. Your code is most of the way there (at least based on the
>     description on the web). Hopefully, I have understood the description
of
>     your software well enough to know what it already does/doesn't do, and
>     this isn't all moot.
>
>     Actually integrating linux with a barscanner is beyond the scope of
this
>     project, of course, but my idea is basically expanding the pantry idea
>     based on the assumption that it will soon be easy to tell your
computer
>     what you have in your kitchen. I think it would be very cool if you
>     could scan in all of your groceries (hmm, actually what might be even
>     cooler is to just scan in your grocery store receipt), and then have
>     this database of your food interact with your recipe database, so you
>     could type in I want a recipe for chicken (or whatever you are
craving),
>     and it will dump out a list of all of the recipes that you have all of
>     the ingredients for. Maybe even a list of suggested side dishes (some
>     way of linking recipes together, I guess). Or you could ask what are
all
>     the recipes I have that take less than 30 minutes and I have all the
>     ingredients. Or I want something Indian. I guess you would have to
>     delete stuff as you use it as well, but that doesn't seem so bad. You
>     could scan the containers before you threw it out. You could also
choose
>     any number of recipes that you always want to be able to make, and/or
>     recipes you want to be able to make in the coming week, and then when
it
>     is time to shop, print out a grocery list based on what you already
have

>     on hand. Short-term, I would be willing to enter food on hand manually
>     to have this sort of functionality. What do you guys think about the
>     feasibility of this sort of thing?
>
>     Keep up the great work, and I am looking forward to getting an hour or
>     two to install and play with Gourmet!
>
>     cheers,
>     maria
>
>

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>     This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft
>     Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2005.
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>     Grecipe-manager-devel mailing list
>     Grecipe-manager-devel@...
>     <mailto:Grecipe-manager-devel@...>
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>
>

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[Daniel Taylor-6]

Hey,

I have been thinking about and writing out some information for a
simple recipe sharing protocol lately, and have typed it up and thrown
it online for review. Right now it is to be considered a draft and I
am requesting comments, suggestions, constructive criticism, etc.
There is a little bit of vagueness in that the recipe sharing XML
format hasn't yet been finalized, but that is being worked on. You can
read the spec here:

http://www.recipemanager.org/rsp/rsp10draft.html

At the moment I only have one example at the bottom of the spec, but I
want to have at least two or three more to show how to use the various
methods and such. I will be adding them as I get the chance.
--
Daniel G. Taylor
http://programmer-art.org

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