Recommended PCI-Express NICs?

[Brent Gardner]

Can anyone recommend a PCI-Express NIC that works without special
drivers?  That is to say, it'll work with a driver included in the
current modules tarball?

Thanks.


Brent Gardner


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/

[Juergen Northe]

Hi Brent,
it is just two postings ago, when I demonstrated, that there is a eager
demand for recent NIC drivers.

> In my opinion the drivers which comes with the 3.1.1xx
> require an update/upgrade for new popular nics,
> since there a often requests for the same drivers.

My advice is: do not use rare brands. Take a look at the"Intel Pro/1000 PT
Dual Port" network card.  I suppose that you need at least two ports ;-)
I can send you the working e1000e driver, which I kindly received from Adam.

Juergen Northe

2009/4/17 Brent Gardner <brent.gardner@...>

> Can anyone recommend a PCI-Express NIC that works without special
> drivers?  That is to say, it'll work with a driver included in the
> current modules tarball?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Brent Gardner
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
> Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/
>

--



mit freundlichem Gruss
Jürgen Northe
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/

[Martin Hejl]

Hi Juergen,

> it is just two postings ago, when I demonstrated, that there is a eager
> demand for recent NIC drivers.
possibly - but it seems the demand is not big enough for somebody (who
has that need) to do anything about it.

As far as I can tell (as always, I can only speak for myself), none of
the "core developers" has that need (or the hardware available) - so
unless somebody with the need and the hardware picks up the ball, you
can complain as much as you want, but nothing will change. That's how
open source works (in my mind) - those with the means and the need
provide what's needed to meet their needs. If we had more people
providing something they're looking for, the project would be a lot further.

Martin


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/

[Juergen Northe]

Dear Martin,
I do not complain at all about a slow or not existing process of providing
recent drivers.
As you can read in my postings ago, I tried to demonstrate that a lot of the
postings in the forum is
always about the same thing: people are looking for drivers of recent
hardware - most NIC drivers.

Since the list of network cards is unmanageable, there should be very
*small* list of network cards which should be supported and and listed -i.e.
in the forum. Take a look at the Intel Etherexpress cards. As I know you
only need 4 drivers (e100, e1000, e1000e and one compatible) for all intel
based network cards and you're done. At least for basic support.

And what, if your new server has not such a card? You have two choices:
* have an exotic network card, download buildtool, download the driver from
the manufacture, RTFM, configure, compile, run into trouble, restart, do it
again, buy an other nic, do it again - all on your own. Hours over hours ...
days passing ;-)
- or -
* buy for ~ 90 € a NIC with 2 ports - knowing that there is a driver in the
modules tarball ?

Why not adjusting a little bit the hardware to the software?!

Since I do know the principles of opensouce I'll never complain about their
work! I deeply respect it!!!

Regards
Juergen Northe


2009/4/19 Martin Hejl <martin@...>

> Hi Juergen,
>
> > it is just two postings ago, when I demonstrated, that there is a eager
> > demand for recent NIC drivers.
> possibly - but it seems the demand is not big enough for somebody (who
> has that need) to do anything about it.
>
> As far as I can tell (as always, I can only speak for myself), none of
> the "core developers" has that need (or the hardware available) - so
> unless somebody with the need and the hardware picks up the ball, you
> can complain as much as you want, but nothing will change. That's how
> open source works (in my mind) - those with the means and the need
> provide what's needed to meet their needs. If we had more people
> providing something they're looking for, the project would be a lot
> further.
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
> around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
> $200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
> 300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
> Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
> Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/
>

--



mit freundlichem Gruss
Jürgen Northe
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/

[Erich Titl]

Hi

Juergen Northe wrote:

> Dear Martin,
> I do not complain at all about a slow or not existing process of providing
> recent drivers.
> As you can read in my postings ago, I tried to demonstrate that a lot of the
> postings in the forum is
> always about the same thing: people are looking for drivers of recent
> hardware - most NIC drivers.
>
> Since the list of network cards is unmanageable, there should be very
> *small* list of network cards which should be supported and and listed -i.e.
> in the forum. Take a look at the Intel Etherexpress cards. As I know you
> only need 4 drivers (e100, e1000, e1000e and one compatible) for all intel
> based network cards and you're done. At least for basic support.
>
> And what, if your new server has not such a card? You have two choices:
> * have an exotic network card, download buildtool, download the driver from
> the manufacture, RTFM, configure, compile, run into trouble, restart, do it
> again, buy an other nic, do it again - all on your own. Hours over hours ...
> days passing ;-)
> - or -
> * buy for ~ 90 € a NIC with 2 ports - knowing that there is a driver in the
> modules tarball ?
>
> Why not adjusting a little bit the hardware to the software?!

Well, that's what most people try to do and still sometimes someone runs
into trouble forgetting about a certain piece of hardware not being
supported. Here the open source environment catches and allows you to
build your own.

The most recent hardware will most of the time be supported by recent
software. Kernel 2.4 is not recent, but it is very handy in a number of
aspects, e.g. ipsec virtual interfaces, kernel size, e.t.c. Still we
will sooner or later have to bite the bullet and move to 2.6 and Martin
has built an test environment to do so. With 2.6 most recent hardware is
supported without the need of a back port.

For the e1000xxx environment I built the environment to compile it for
Bering with kernel 2.4.34 and it should be rather trivial to port it to
later 2.4 releases and I told you so. I did not do the uplink feed to
mainstream Bering as it appeared to be a non issue, I may have to revise
this.

Erich

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/

[Brent Gardner]

Juergen Northe wrote:

> Hi Brent,
> it is just two postings ago, when I demonstrated, that there is a eager
> demand for recent NIC drivers.
>
>> In my opinion the drivers which comes with the 3.1.1xx
>> require an update/upgrade for new popular nics,
>> since there a often requests for the same drivers.
>
> My advice is: do not use rare brands. Take a look at the"Intel Pro/1000 PT
> Dual Port" network card.  I suppose that you need at least two ports ;-)
> I can send you the working e1000e driver, which I kindly received from Adam.
>
> Juergen Northe
>

Juergen-

I saw the posts related to you getting the e1000e driver.  This is why I
posted looking for a NIC that already had support.  I didn't want to
make work for anyone in this fine community.  I don't subscribe to
leaf-devel, so I didn't know if any PCI-Express NICs were already
supported.  I was just looking for more information before I make a
hardware purchase.

I agree with the philosophy of trying to use mainstream hardware.  I try
to do so.  It usually makes supporting the hardware much easier.  I'm
probably going to buy some of the dual-port Intel NICS.  If you would
send a copy of that driver my way I would really appreciate it.


Developers-

What does it take to get a driver included in the modules tarball?  Will
this driver that Adam produced be included in the future?

I've read through some postings and the online documentation related to
setting up the buildtool environment so I can compile my own drivers.  I
don't have a lot of experience with compiling things that haven't been
pre-packaged, so the process looks fairly intimidating.  I'd love to
produce some drivers and submit them to the community  but it would
probably take a month or more with my inexperience, and I don't have the
cards to test against.


Brent Gardner



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/

[Martin Hejl]

Hi Juergen

> I do not complain at all about a slow or not existing process of providing
> recent drivers.
Sorry - I guess that came across more harsh than it was intended (I
probably shouldn't write emails in the middle of the night...)

> Since the list of network cards is unmanageable, there should be very
> *small* list of network cards which should be supported and and listed -i.e.
> in the forum. Take a look at the Intel Etherexpress cards. As I know you
> only need 4 drivers (e100, e1000, e1000e and one compatible) for all intel
> based network cards and you're done. At least for basic support.
I'm afraid that will only result in endless discussions - to each user,
the only drivers that are relevant are the one he/she needs.
The list of drivers could probably be cut down, but since the vast
majority of those drivers comes with the kernel (and compiling them is
rarely a problem), there's no real benefit there, since those setups
already exist, and removing them would only create extra work.

The ones that tend to cause problems are the ones that don't come with
the kernel, that need tweaking to compile.

Creating a list of "supported nics" sounds nice for new users, but I'm
afraid it might bring all kinds of problems - first of all, who defines
what "supported" actually means? Is one test with one card that uses a
given chipset enough? If we had tons of users willing to participate in
something like that, it would be doable (we have the wiki to put such a
list into, and where everybody could add their findings) - but I don't
see how a handful of people could pull that off.

And then, such a list usually has the tendency to become outdated rather
quickly, unless there's somebody maintaining that list who's rather
enthusiastic about it, and has access to lots of different hardware.

> And what, if your new server has not such a card? You have two choices:
> * have an exotic network card, download buildtool, download the driver from
> the manufacture, RTFM, configure, compile, run into trouble, restart, do it
> again, buy an other nic, do it again - all on your own. Hours over hours ...
> days passing ;-)
> - or -
> * buy for ~ 90 € a NIC with 2 ports - knowing that there is a driver in the
> modules tarball ?
>
> Why not adjusting a little bit the hardware to the software?!

That would be an approach - but unfortunately we have little control
over what the users do (and many people tend to buy hardware first, and
try to figure out if it's supported after that).

In short, as Erich pointed out, the issue with newer hardware will
continue to get worse as long as we stick with kernel 2.4 - but so far,
it doesn't seem bad enough (otherwise, somebody would have chimed in and
picked up work on the 2.6 kernel version in the last 12 months).

Speaking for myself - Bering uClibc does everything I need, so it's hard
to justify spending time on making it do things I don't have a need for.

Martin

P.S. I don't want to sound all negative about your suggestions - it
sounds like every response I give starts with "yes, but..." - I'm just
skeptical that they can be pulled off, given the small number of active
developers at this point.
Just look at
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=leaf-cvs-commits 
and see who committed something to CVS in the last 12 months



------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/

[KP Kirchdoerfer-2]

Hello Brent;

Am Montag, 20. April 2009 19:34:15 schrieb Brent Gardner:

> Juergen Northe wrote:
> > Hi Brent,
> > it is just two postings ago, when I demonstrated, that there is a eager
> > demand for recent NIC drivers.
> >
> >> In my opinion the drivers which comes with the 3.1.1xx
> >> require an update/upgrade for new popular nics,
> >> since there a often requests for the same drivers.
> >
> > My advice is: do not use rare brands. Take a look at the"Intel Pro/1000
> > PT Dual Port" network card.  I suppose that you need at least two ports
> > ;-) I can send you the working e1000e driver, which I kindly received
> > from Adam.
> >
> > Juergen Northe
>
> Juergen-
>
> I saw the posts related to you getting the e1000e driver.  This is why I
> posted looking for a NIC that already had support.  I didn't want to
> make work for anyone in this fine community.  I don't subscribe to
> leaf-devel, so I didn't know if any PCI-Express NICs were already
> supported.  I was just looking for more information before I make a
> hardware purchase.
>
> I agree with the philosophy of trying to use mainstream hardware.  I try
> to do so.  It usually makes supporting the hardware much easier.  I'm
> probably going to buy some of the dual-port Intel NICS.  If you would
> send a copy of that driver my way I would really appreciate it.
>
>
> Developers-
>
> What does it take to get a driver included in the modules tarball?  Will
> this driver that Adam produced be included in the future?

We need a proper buildtool setup (buildtool.cfg, buildtool.mk and the source
files).
Given that it is intended for Bering-uClibc, any leaf developer can add it to
the contrib section.
To become a leaf developer one need a sourceforge account and the approval by
Mike Noyes or any core developer (who then will contact Mike, because he
forgot how to add a new member, like I do usually :)).

The core developers then have to add it to the sources.conf to have it
automatically build with the next version.

See
http://leaf.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/leaf/src/bering-uclibc/contrib/attansicl1/

for an example what's needed.

kp




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/

[Erich Titl]

KP

I committed my e1000e to contrib to stop this philosophical thread, I
hope it went to the right place :-)

cheers

Erich





------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay on top of everything new and different, both inside and
around Java (TM) technology - register by April 22, and save
$200 on the JavaOne (SM) conference, June 2-5, 2009, San Francisco.
300 plus technical and hands-on sessions. Register today.
Use priority code J9JMT32. http://p.sf.net/sfu/p
------------------------------------------------------------------------
leaf-user mailing list: leaf-user@...
https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user
Support Request -- http://leaf-project.org/