Regression: spacing single full-bar notes with ragged-right=##f

[Trevor Daniels]

The positioning of a single note which
occupies a bar fully is not correct if
ragged-right = ##f.
 
The following example illustrates the problem.

\layout { ragged-right = ##f }
\relative a' {
  a1 a a
  \break
  a a a
  \break
  \time 2/4
  a2 a a
  \break
  a
  \time 1/4
  a4 a
  }

This is a regression from 2.10.  Both 2.13
and 2.12 show the problem, but 2.10.33 does not.  

It appears the regression was introduced between
2.11.9 and 2.11.10.  pngs of this example generated
with these two releases are attached.  There are
several commits which modify spacing between these
two tags, but as I can't compile LilyPond I can't
narrow this down any further.

Trevor



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[Neil Puttock]

2009/8/25 Trevor Daniels <t.daniels@...>:

> This is a regression from 2.10.  Both 2.13 and 2.12 show the problem, but
> 2.10.33 does not.

Are you sure?  I think it's covered by this news entry for 2.12:

`Notes or rests, such as a typical end note, that fill an entire
measure are preceded by some more space.'

If the spacing is stretched, then the extra space is going to be much
more noticeable.

Regards,
Neil


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[Trevor Daniels]

Neil Puttock wrote Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:17 PM
>

> 2009/8/25 Trevor Daniels <t.daniels@...>:
>
>> This is a regression from 2.10. Both 2.13 and 2.12 show the
>> problem, but
>> 2.10.33 does not.
>
> Are you sure?  I think it's covered by this news entry for 2.12:
>
> `Notes or rests, such as a typical end note, that fill an entire
> measure are preceded by some more space.'
>
> If the spacing is stretched, then the extra space is going to be
> much
> more noticeable.

I'd forgotten that news item, but the extra space seems to be
too large.  I've checked the scores of three publishers and all
of them position a single note in a bar close to the left bar
line.  One of the LilyPond examples I showed positioned the
note almost in the centre of the measure - surely that cannot
be correct.

Furthermore, the positioning in the first measure of every line is
different to the rest of the measures on the line.  The first bar is
correct, I believe, but surely the positioning should be consistent.

Trevor



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[Neil Puttock]

2009/8/25 Trevor Daniels <t.daniels@...>:

> I'd forgotten that news item, but the extra space seems to be
> too large.  I've checked the scores of three publishers and all
> of them position a single note in a bar close to the left bar
> line.  One of the LilyPond examples I showed positioned the
> note almost in the centre of the measure - surely that cannot
> be correct.

Hmm, with current git, the first 1/4 bar is even worse: the crotchet
is positioned in the last third of the bar's width; furthermore, it's
not possible to correct this by overriding 'full-measure-extra-space
unless you use negative values.

> Furthermore, the positioning in the first measure of every line is
> different to the rest of the measures on the line.  The first bar is
> correct, I believe, but surely the positioning should be consistent.

Yes, I've noticed that before; I'm not sure whether that is by design though.

Looking in spacing-spanner.cc, it appears that the criterion for the
extra space is that the paper column to the left of the SpacingSpanner
has a break status of CENTER, which explains why the first bar in each
system doesn't get any extra space.

Regards,
Neil


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[Trevor Daniels]

Neil Puttock wrote Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:21 PM
>

> 2009/8/25 Trevor Daniels <t.daniels@...>:
>>
>> I'd forgotten that news item, but the extra space seems to be
>> too large. I've checked the scores of three publishers and all
>> of them position a single note in a bar close to the left bar
>> line. One of the LilyPond examples I showed positioned the
>> note almost in the centre of the measure - surely that cannot
>> be correct.
>
> Hmm, with current git, the first 1/4 bar is even worse: the
> crotchet
> is positioned in the last third of the bar's width; furthermore,
> it's
> not possible to correct this by overriding
> 'full-measure-extra-space
> unless you use negative values.

The default value for 'full-measure-spacing-width appears to
be just the default value for the distance property of a Spring
object, which is 1, so setting 'full-measure-extra-space to -1
effectively sets the space added to all but the first bar to 0.
This looks like it might be a solution to Werner's original
problem, and it also gives a means for reducing the extra
space when bars are seriously stretched.

I'll explore it a little more.

>> Furthermore, the positioning in the first measure of every line
>> is
>> different to the rest of the measures on the line. The first bar
>> is
>> correct, I believe, but surely the positioning should be
>> consistent.
>
> Yes, I've noticed that before; I'm not sure whether that is by
> design though.
>
> Looking in spacing-spanner.cc, it appears that the criterion for
> the
> extra space is that the paper column to the left of the
> SpacingSpanner
> has a break status of CENTER, which explains why the first bar in
> each
> system doesn't get any extra space.

OK, thanks for the explanation.  There doesn't seem to be
anything we can do about this (other than changing the code).

Trevor



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[Valentin Villenave]

On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Trevor Daniels <t.daniels@...> wrote:

Greetings Trevor and Neil, sorry for bumping this so late:

> The default value for 'full-measure-spacing-width appears to
> be just the default value for the distance property of a Spring
> object, which is 1, so setting 'full-measure-extra-space to -1
> effectively sets the space added to all but the first bar to 0.
> This looks like it might be a solution to Werner's original
> problem, and it also gives a means for reducing the extra
> space when bars are seriously stretched.
>
> I'll explore it a little more.

Have you had another look at this issue? The output is still meh with 2.13.6 :-)

Regards,
Valentin


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[Trevor Daniels]

Valentin, you wrote Thursday, October 29, 2009 9:27 AM

> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Trevor Daniels
> <t.daniels@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings Trevor and Neil, sorry for bumping this so late:
>
>> The default value for 'full-measure-spacing-width appears to
>> be just the default value for the distance property of a Spring
>> object, which is 1, so setting 'full-measure-extra-space to -1
>> effectively sets the space added to all but the first bar to 0.
>> This looks like it might be a solution to Werner's original
>> problem, and it also gives a means for reducing the extra
>> space when bars are seriously stretched.
>>
>> I'll explore it a little more.
>
> Have you had another look at this issue? The output is still meh
> with 2.13.6 :-)

I honestly can't remember whether I looked at it further or not.
But as I don't seem to have posted any more about it I guess
I didn't.  Or maybe I did but discovered nothing more.  We were
not sure why this extra space had been added, so were reluctant
to remove it (is that right, Neil?)  The effect of it on a bar
containing
a single note is clearly wrong, so I think it should be added to the
tracker as a bug.

Trevor



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[Neil Puttock]

2009/10/30 Trevor Daniels <t.daniels@...>:

> I honestly can't remember whether I looked at it further or not.
> But as I don't seem to have posted any more about it I guess
> I didn't.  Or maybe I did but discovered nothing more.  We were
> not sure why this extra space had been added, so were reluctant
> to remove it (is that right, Neil?)

Yes.  The only reference I have to hand is Gardner Read's, which makes
no mention of this as far as I can tell.

Regards,
Neil


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[Valentin Villenave]

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 12:57 AM, Trevor Daniels <t.daniels@...> wrote:
> But as I don't seem to have posted any more about it I guess
> I didn't.  Or maybe I did but discovered nothing more.  We were
> not sure why this extra space had been added, so were reluctant
> to remove it (is that right, Neil?)  The effect of it on a bar containing
> a single note is clearly wrong, so I think it should be added to the
> tracker as a bug.

Done:
http://code.google.com/p/lilypond/issues/detail?id=899

Cheers,
Valentin


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