Relatively minor change for ODS-12: clean up generator pages

[Ann W. Harrison]

The format of generator pages could be cleaned up.  Originally,
someone (someone I know very well) decided that generators could
be hacked in without creating a new page type, so he reused the
pointer page format.  When generators went to 64bits, they got
their own page type, but the format never got cleaned up, so
there's some wasted space at the beginning that pointer pages
needed, but generators don't.


Cheers,

Ann

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[Claudio Valderrama C.]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ann W. Harrison [mailto:aharrison@...]
> Sent: Martes, 27 de Octubre de 2009 15:11
>
> The format of generator pages could be cleaned up.  Originally,
> someone (someone I know very well) decided that generators could
> be hacked in without creating a new page type, so he reused the
> pointer page format.  When generators went to 64bits, they got
> their own page type, but the format never got cleaned up, so
> there's some wasted space at the beginning that pointer pages
> needed, but generators don't.

But this change should be done now that we are still starting FB3, before
any public alpha.

C.



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[Dmitry Yemanov]

Claudio Valderrama C. wrote:
>
> But this change should be done now that we are still starting FB3, before
> any public alpha.

All the physical ODS changes must be done as soon as possible, long
before Alpha. This is why I have started these threads.


Dmitry

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[Claudio Valderrama C.]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dmitry Yemanov [mailto:firebird2@...]
> Sent: Domingo, 01 de Noviembre de 2009 5:11
>
> Claudio Valderrama C. wrote:
> >
> > But this change should be done now that we are still
> starting FB3, before
> > any public alpha.
>
> All the physical ODS changes must be done as soon as possible, long
> before Alpha. This is why I have started these threads.

Assuming this change is done, will FB3 read only its own ODS 12 or will it
read previous ODS as well. If the answer is the second option, then code
should be added to deal with the old the new page layout.

C.



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[Dmitry Yemanov]

Claudio Valderrama C. wrote:
>
> Assuming this change is done, will FB3 read only its own ODS 12 or will it
> read previous ODS as well.

It's worth discussing. I do agree that the prior ODS support is a handy
feature, but it was never tested by the team, so we shouldn't claim it
being official. There are a few known bugs related to this ability that
are not trivial to fix. And surely it noticeably complicates the
codebase (look at the BTR code for example). As FB3 is going to add many
major ODS changes, I'm afraid such support may turn to be overcomplicated.

The provider architecture was expected to address this issue but not
immediately, as some provider should support pre-ODS12 databases. If
this is agreed to be a no option for v3, then we should think whether it
would be possible (and feasible) to create a v3 provider wrapper based
on the FB25 codebase and make it available as a separate binary. Or
let's just declare this feature dead (at least for the v3 life time).


Dmitry

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[Rustam Gadjimuradov]

v3 - is a major new version, so I see no catastrophe
if it will be declared necessarily migrating databases
via gbak and no previous ODS-versions support.

WBR, GR

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[Jiri Cincura]

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 11:04, Dmitry Yemanov <firebird2@...> wrote:
> whether it
> would be possible (and feasible) to create a v3 provider wrapper based
> on the FB25 codebase and make it available as a separate binary. Or
> let's just declare this feature dead (at least for the v3 life time).

I think there's no problem for new major version to force users to do
backup&restore and hence using new ODS.

--
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http://blog.cincura.net/ | http://www.ID3renamer.com

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[Alexander Peshkoff]

On Sunday 01 November 2009 13:04:54 Dmitry Yemanov wrote:

> Claudio Valderrama C. wrote:
> > Assuming this change is done, will FB3 read only its own ODS 12 or will
> > it read previous ODS as well.
>
> It's worth discussing. I do agree that the prior ODS support is a handy
> feature, but it was never tested by the team, so we shouldn't claim it
> being official. There are a few known bugs related to this ability that
> are not trivial to fix. And surely it noticeably complicates the
> codebase (look at the BTR code for example). As FB3 is going to add many
> major ODS changes, I'm afraid such support may turn to be overcomplicated.
>
> The provider architecture was expected to address this issue but not
> immediately, as some provider should support pre-ODS12 databases. If
> this is agreed to be a no option for v3, then we should think whether it
> would be possible (and feasible) to create a v3 provider wrapper based
> on the FB25 codebase and make it available as a separate binary. Or
> let's just declare this feature dead (at least for the v3 life time).

I do not see big problems buidling such a provider. 2.5 architecture is
already clode enough to what we need for providers architecture. Doing that
for older versions is much more problematic - but looks like luckily we do
not need it.


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[Stefan Heymann-2]

>> whether it would be possible (and feasible) to create a v3 provider
>> wrapper based on the FB25 codebase and make it available as a
>> separate binary. Or let's just declare this feature dead (at least
>> for the v3 life time).

>> As FB3 is going to add many major ODS changes, I'm afraid such
>> support may turn to be overcomplicated.

> I think there's no problem for new major version to force users to do
> backup&restore and hence using new ODS.

Seconded.

Stefan


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[Lester Caine]

Stefan Heymann wrote:

>>> whether it would be possible (and feasible) to create a v3 provider
>>> wrapper based on the FB25 codebase and make it available as a
>>> separate binary. Or let's just declare this feature dead (at least
>>> for the v3 life time).
>
>>> As FB3 is going to add many major ODS changes, I'm afraid such
>>> support may turn to be overcomplicated.
>
>> I think there's no problem for new major version to force users to do
>> backup&restore and hence using new ODS.
>
> Seconded.

Just as long as the newer client can still access an old server
transparently .... Converting all servers to a new version may not be
practical initially!

--
Lester Caine - G8HFL
-----------------------------
Contact - http://lsces.co.uk/wiki/?page=contact
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[Frank Ingermann]

Hi *,

Lester Caine schrieb:

> Stefan Heymann wrote:
>>>> whether it would be possible (and feasible) to create a v3 provider
>>>> wrapper based on the FB25 codebase and make it available as a
>>>> separate binary. Or let's just declare this feature dead (at least
>>>> for the v3 life time).
>>>> As FB3 is going to add many major ODS changes, I'm afraid such
>>>> support may turn to be overcomplicated.
>>> I think there's no problem for new major version to force users to do
>>> backup&restore and hence using new ODS.
>> Seconded.

same here.

> Just as long as the newer client can still access an old server
> transparently .... Converting all servers to a new version may not be
> practical initially!

"You took the words right out of my mouth"! ( to quote an old Meat Loaf title ;-) )
Otherwise it would mean that from point <x> on, when you use a new client
in development, you *must* migrate every customer's server who's in for an
update - not desirable!

cheers,
Frank

--

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
With kind regards,

Frank Ingermann
Klar Partner AG

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[Alexander Peshkoff]

On Monday 02 November 2009 16:31:16 Lester Caine wrote:

> Stefan Heymann wrote:
> >>> whether it would be possible (and feasible) to create a v3 provider
> >>> wrapper based on the FB25 codebase and make it available as a
> >>> separate binary. Or let's just declare this feature dead (at least
> >>> for the v3 life time).
> >>>
> >>> As FB3 is going to add many major ODS changes, I'm afraid such
> >>> support may turn to be overcomplicated.
> >>
> >> I think there's no problem for new major version to force users to do
> >> backup&restore and hence using new ODS.
> >
> > Seconded.
>
> Just as long as the newer client can still access an old server
> transparently .... Converting all servers to a new version may not be
> practical initially!

Protocol backward compatibility will be certainly present.


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