Ristretto 1.0 - Functional Requirements (1/3)

[Stephan Arts-2]

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Daryl Van Humbeck<dvanhumb@...> wrote:

> Stephan Arts wrote:
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> After a couple of years of development, I am getting tired of the
>> ad-hoc hacker style development model I have been using for ristretto.
>> This development model was the cause of several issues which were not
>> easy to solve.
>>
>>  - Returning bugs (memory usage, thumbnails, slow UI)
>>  - Constant rewrites whenever a new feature was being worked on
>>  - and a few other things...
>>
>> When this keeps happening, the fun of coding tends to go away...
>>
>> To prevent that stuff from happening again, I have decided to first
>> put up a decent specification of what Ristretto should do and how it
>> should look like(1/3), then actually make a proper design based on
>> those specifications(2/3) and finally start coding (3/3).
>>
>> You can find a mockup of the functional specification document for
>> Ristretto 1.0 on the wiki[0].
>>
>> I would like you all to look at the specification, and if you have any
>> suggestions on features and functionality, please post them on this
>> list. Then we can discuss the direction that the development of
>> Ristretto is going to take.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>> Stephan Arts
>>
>>
>> [0] http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/fsd/ristretto/1.0
>> _______________________________________________
>> Xfce4-dev mailing list
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>>
>
> I have a slightly unusual question (and it doesn't appear to be covered by
> the provided specs):
>
> Will it watch the filesystem and reload the image if it changes on disk?
>
> While working with some command-line tools that don't show the resulting
> image, I've found that most image viewers don't usually automatically reload
> the image if it changes, and don't always provide a Reload button, forcing
> me to do anything from switching images away and back to closing the viewer
> and starting over.

Good thing you mention that, it is something it already does... but it
indeed should be covered in the spec.

-
Stephan
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[David Mohr-8]

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Yves-Alexis Perez<corsac@...> wrote:

> On dim, 2009-07-05 at 00:49 -0700, Auke Kok wrote:
>> Mike Massonnet wrote:
>> >
>> > Saving the rotation is something useful indeed. Rstto should ask if the image
>> > must be saved with a checkbox "don't ask again". The less casual "editings"
>> > are Resize and Cropping. Btw, I wonder if it is possible to save the rotation
>> > with Exif instead of overwritting the jpeg with another quality and size.
>>
>> this is the preferred method - you don't touch the original data and
>> basically "correct" the exif rotation field instead (and then redisplay
>> using that value).
>>
>> anything else is a bitmap edit and IMO ristretto should not do - that is
>> what image manipulation programs are for...
>
> And you should look at the Exif Orientation tag. If it's present and not
> TopLeft you should rotate the picture (at display time) accordingly.
> When the user wants to rotate an image, you could do it (rotation is non
> destructive) and reset the Orientation tag. GThumb does that, for
> example.

+1 for that behavior. That's how I want my images to be stored on
disk. I try to run exifautotran on all my images, but it'd be great if
ristretto would handle it in case I forgot... :-) Rotation does not
require re-encoding, as corsac already mentioned, so there is IMHO
little reason not to.

~David
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[Stephan Arts-2]

On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Stephan Arts<stephan@...> wrote:

> Hi guys,
>
> After a couple of years of development, I am getting tired of the
> ad-hoc hacker style development model I have been using for ristretto.
> This development model was the cause of several issues which were not
> easy to solve.
>
>  - Returning bugs (memory usage, thumbnails, slow UI)
>  - Constant rewrites whenever a new feature was being worked on
>  - and a few other things...
>
> When this keeps happening, the fun of coding tends to go away...
>
> To prevent that stuff from happening again, I have decided to first
> put up a decent specification of what Ristretto should do and how it
> should look like(1/3), then actually make a proper design based on
> those specifications(2/3) and finally start coding (3/3).
>
> You can find a mockup of the functional specification document for
> Ristretto 1.0 on the wiki[0].
>
> I would like you all to look at the specification, and if you have any
> suggestions on features and functionality, please post them on this
> list. Then we can discuss the direction that the development of
> Ristretto is going to take.
>
> Kind regards,
> Stephan Arts
>
>
> [0] http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/fsd/ristretto/1.0
>

I have modified the wiki-page based on your feedback.

It's now ready for round 2, if anything is not (clearly) described,
does not resemble the english language or you think it is wrong or
missing, please proposed fix.

So far, I think we have done a good job getting the functional
specifications straight and the page is more complete as it was
before.

Kind regards,
Stephan
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[Vincent T]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Stephan Arts <stephan@...> wrote:

On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Stephan Arts<stephan@...> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> After a couple of years of development, I am getting tired of the
> ad-hoc hacker style development model I have been using for ristretto.
> This development model was the cause of several issues which were not
> easy to solve.
>
>  - Returning bugs (memory usage, thumbnails, slow UI)
>  - Constant rewrites whenever a new feature was being worked on
>  - and a few other things...
>
> When this keeps happening, the fun of coding tends to go away...
>
> To prevent that stuff from happening again, I have decided to first
> put up a decent specification of what Ristretto should do and how it
> should look like(1/3), then actually make a proper design based on
> those specifications(2/3) and finally start coding (3/3).
>
> You can find a mockup of the functional specification document for
> Ristretto 1.0 on the wiki[0].
>
> I would like you all to look at the specification, and if you have any
> suggestions on features and functionality, please post them on this
> list. Then we can discuss the direction that the development of
> Ristretto is going to take.
>
> Kind regards,
> Stephan Arts
>
>
> [0] http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/fsd/ristretto/1.0
>

I have modified the wiki-page based on your feedback.

It's now ready for round 2, if anything is not (clearly) described,
does not resemble the english language or you think it is wrong or
missing, please proposed fix.

So far, I think we have done a good job getting the functional
specifications straight and the page is more complete as it was
before.

Ah, here's one little annoyance I have with the current Ristretto: that scrolling zooms in/out instead of, well, scrolling. When I've zoomed in on an image (especially with portrait-oriented images) I want to scroll to be able to see different parts of the image, but then it currently zooms in. I mostly expect zooming in to happen when I Ctrl+Scroll or Ctrl and the +/- keys, like in most other applications (like Thunar).

I also think that would be a good default - if the user really expects the image to zoom when he scrolls and instead it just moves the image up and down, it's far less annoying than when it would be the other way around, because panning the image takes far less time than zooming in or out.

Then a thing about keyboard navigation: how can you navigate through images using the keyboard? Can you just use the arrow keys, do you need to use them in combination with another key, and if so, can you use the arrow keys when the thumbnail bar is focused? Also, can there be a scrollbar on the thumbnail bar this time, so you can see thumbnails of images further away without needing to click and drag, which is a bit undiscoverable?

Oh, and will Tumbler be used for the thumbnails? ;-)

Anyway, looking good, this is the first time I'm actually looking forward to an image viewer :)

 

Kind regards,
Stephan

Thanks,
--
Vincent

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[Steve Dodier-2]

Hello,

May i dare adding to Vincent's comment that it would be great if Shift+Scroll could move the image horizontally instead of vertically ? I think I already exposed you this idea when we met at UDS, though.

Cordially, SD.

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[Stephan Arts-2]

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Steve Dodier<sidnioulz@...> wrote:
> Hello,
> May i dare adding to Vincent's comment that it would be great if
> Shift+Scroll could move the image horizontally instead of vertically ? I
> think I already exposed you this idea when we met at UDS, though.
> Cordially, SD.

Could be, don't remember everything though.

-
s
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[Stephan Arts-2]

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Vincent<mailinglists@...> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 11:40 PM, Stephan Arts <stephan@...> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Stephan Arts<stephan@...> wrote:
>> > Hi guys,
>> >
>> > After a couple of years of development, I am getting tired of the
>> > ad-hoc hacker style development model I have been using for ristretto.
>> > This development model was the cause of several issues which were not
>> > easy to solve.
>> >
>> >  - Returning bugs (memory usage, thumbnails, slow UI)
>> >  - Constant rewrites whenever a new feature was being worked on
>> >  - and a few other things...
>> >
>> > When this keeps happening, the fun of coding tends to go away...
>> >
>> > To prevent that stuff from happening again, I have decided to first
>> > put up a decent specification of what Ristretto should do and how it
>> > should look like(1/3), then actually make a proper design based on
>> > those specifications(2/3) and finally start coding (3/3).
>> >
>> > You can find a mockup of the functional specification document for
>> > Ristretto 1.0 on the wiki[0].
>> >
>> > I would like you all to look at the specification, and if you have any
>> > suggestions on features and functionality, please post them on this
>> > list. Then we can discuss the direction that the development of
>> > Ristretto is going to take.
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> > Stephan Arts
>> >
>> >
>> > [0] http://wiki.xfce.org/releng/fsd/ristretto/1.0
>> >
>>
>> I have modified the wiki-page based on your feedback.
>>
>> It's now ready for round 2, if anything is not (clearly) described,
>> does not resemble the english language or you think it is wrong or
>> missing, please proposed fix.
>>
>> So far, I think we have done a good job getting the functional
>> specifications straight and the page is more complete as it was
>> before.
>
> Ah, here's one little annoyance I have with the current Ristretto: that
> scrolling zooms in/out instead of, well, scrolling. When I've zoomed in on
> an image (especially with portrait-oriented images) I want to scroll to be
> able to see different parts of the image, but then it currently zooms in. I
> mostly expect zooming in to happen when I Ctrl+Scroll or Ctrl and the +/-
> keys, like in most other applications (like Thunar).
> I also think that would be a good default - if the user really expects the
> image to zoom when he scrolls and instead it just moves the image up and
> down, it's far less annoying than when it would be the other way around,
> because panning the image takes far less time than zooming in or out.
> Then a thing about keyboard navigation: how can you navigate through images
> using the keyboard? Can you just use the arrow keys, do you need to use them
> in combination with another key, and if so, can you use the arrow keys when
> the thumbnail bar is focused? Also, can there be a scrollbar on the
> thumbnail bar this time, so you can see thumbnails of images further away
> without needing to click and drag, which is a bit undiscoverable?
> Oh, and will Tumbler be used for the thumbnails? ;-)
> Anyway, looking good, this is the first time I'm actually looking forward to
> an image viewer :)

Marking this comment as +1 useful :-)

I'll try to incorporate your comments in the fsd.

-
Stephan
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[R P Herrold]

On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, Stephan Arts wrote:

   <snip>
> Marking this comment as +1 useful :-)
>
> I'll try to incorporate your comments in the fsd.

looking over the spec in the wiki, and thinking about it,

- there is the 'rotate {anti|}clockwise tool -- one assumes
  90 degree shifts although not stated
  [extensionm: gimp has a artitrary number of degrees
  tool, useful for handling a tilted camera, to get the
  visual horizon level -- adding and removing gridlines
  would be useful, of this extension is adopted]

-- Russ herrold
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[Stephan Arts-2]

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:04 PM, R P Herrold<herrold@...> wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Jul 2009, Stephan Arts wrote:
>
>  <snip>
>>
>> Marking this comment as +1 useful :-)
>>
>> I'll try to incorporate your comments in the fsd.
>
> looking over the spec in the wiki, and thinking about it,
>
> - there is the 'rotate {anti|}clockwise tool -- one assumes
>        90 degree shifts although not stated
>        [extensionm: gimp has a artitrary number of degrees
>        tool, useful for handling a tilted camera, to get the
>        visual horizon level -- adding and removing gridlines
>        would be useful, of this extension is adopted]

This only makes sense if you allow saving of the picture. Which
ristretto won't do.
Just fix the horizon in the gimp (or just hold your camera straight)
and save the image. :-)

Cheers,
Stephan
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[bruno ramos]

Hello,

not sure is this is the best place to talk about it but here it goes.

While using ristretto 0.0.22 I find myself missing the keyboard
shortcuts for example to reset the zoom, to change to next/previous
image.

Best regards,

Bruno Ramos
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[Ali Abdallah-2]

Hi Stephan,

Stephan Arts wrote:
> Then we can discuss the direction that the development of
> Ristretto is going to take.
>  
I have only one issue with using ristretto (and with other image viewers
in general), here is it.

Usually when watching a set of photos in slideshow fullscreen mode,
developer could expect from the user
to be sitting without touching the keyboard and just watching vacation
photos with family or so, this likely causes after some time the
screensaver to be activated, which is very annoying.

I don't see any reason why image viewers (or any other viewers running
in fullscreen slideshow mode like a oo presentation), don't reset the X
screensaver counter via XResetScreenSaver in a timeout function of 8
seconds for example, this is really a few lines of code, it will be nice
if you add this to ristretto.

> Kind regards,
> Stephan Arts
>  
Thanks,
Ali.

>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Xfce4-dev mailing list
> Xfce4-dev@...
> http://foo-projects.org/mailman/listinfo/xfce4-dev
>  

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[Vincent T]

On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 6:18 PM, Ali Abdallah <aliov@...> wrote:

Hi Stephan,

Stephan Arts wrote:

Then we can discuss the direction that the development of
Ristretto is going to take.
 

I have only one issue with using ristretto (and with other image viewers in general), here is it.

Usually when watching a set of photos in slideshow fullscreen mode, developer could expect from the user
to be sitting without touching the keyboard and just watching vacation photos with family or so, this likely causes after some time the screensaver to be activated, which is very annoying.

I don't see any reason why image viewers (or any other viewers running in fullscreen slideshow mode like a oo presentation), don't reset the X screensaver counter via XResetScreenSaver in a timeout function of 8 seconds for example, this is really a few lines of code, it will be nice if you add this to ristretto.

Sounds more logical to do that every time a new photo is loaded ;-)
 

Kind regards,
Stephan Arts
 

Thanks,
Ali.

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--
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