Rituals and superstition rule

[Ray, Debanjan IN BLR SISL]

Dear all,

I read some interesting article in yesterday's Times of India, Bangalore edition, page-6
Visit: http://epaper.timesofindia.com<http://epaper.timesofindia.com/>

=============================
Rituals and superstition rule

Despite Campaigns By Rationalists And NGOs, Many Of Them Continue To Be Practised

Rishikesh Bahadur Desai | TNN

Hubli: North Karnataka abounds with stories of rituals based on blind belief and superstition. The occurrence and intensity of the rituals have reduced over the years, but continue to hold sway.
   While some rituals like asking a person from the Kuruba community to make the first purchase in a new shop are habitually observed, there are others that are inhuman, and dangerous. There are others that can be funny too.

DANGEROUS RITUALS

WALKING ON FIRE

The most common ritual practised here is walking on fire. It is observed by members of several communities across the state. It is held in temples and mosques. The faithful say the ritual washes away their sins. Efforts to stop the ritual have been of little help, probably because it is not as dangerous as it seems.

HANGING BY HOOKS

The Sidi ritual, made famous by Kamal Hassan in the film Dashavataram is in vogue in temple fairs in Bijapur, Gulbarga and other districts. One hangs by steel hooks from a rope attached to a high mastpole. This ritual gets bizarre at times. Last year, a woman tied a calf to her belly while she hung from the hooks in the Maruteshwar temple fair in Bijapur. The NHRC has asked the Gulbarga DC to stop the practice in the Bhagyavanti temple in Ghattarga, after the Rationalist Association demonstrated that there was no miracle in it.

THROWING BABIES

It is believed that throwing babies down from atop a temple in Nidoni, Bijapur district, makes the toddlers strong. The father or uncle takes the baby to the temple roof and drops it down. However, the baby is not hurt as it falls on the chaddar or sacred cloth devotees hold like a net.
   A more recent ritual is Ayyappa devotees dunking babies in boiling oil. Rationalists say devotees passed off cold oil with froth as boiling oil. While the police said they would act only against complaints, the department of social welfare had said it would take action. But one year and two more such incidents later, district officials are yet to take action.

BHANAMATI

The most dangerous belief is that of Bhanamati. It exists in many forms. Psychosomatic disorders are confused for enchantment. Bodies being taken over by ghosts, sorcery and physical violence are common. Magic tricks like wooden objects catching fire seemingly by themselves are all attributed to Bhanamati. The incidence is high in Gulbarga and Bidar. A macabre incident of a girl hung upside down and left to die in a jungle in Gulbarga brought the practice nationwide attention a few years ago. NGOs have been fighting it.

KARANIKA PENANCE

At fairs in Devaragudda and Mailar in Haveri district, devotees believe the reigning deity Mailara Linga is pleased by physical penance. Goravas, or worshippers who take up penance, whip themselves, bind themselves in chains, bark like dogs, eat directly from plates or dance like horses.
   The most excruciating is the Karanika penance where he fasts for a day and climbs a 12-metre bow. He jumps onto a cloth held below, uttering a complex phrase which the priests decipher as the Gods' prediction for the coming year. Some pierce their bodies with thorns and nails.

DEHUMANIZING



DEVADASI SYSTEM

The oldest tradition that grew out of superstition is the Devadasi system. This evil system that has pushed several thousands of women into prostitution is based on the belief that a woman who is married to the Lord becomes a 'Nitya Sumangali, an eternally auspicious woman.
   Gejje Pooje or the worship of the ankle bells; Kalyana or the symbolic marriage to the trident, spear or linga (the phallic image of God); dedication and branding with a heated trident on her right upper arm to test her purity are all part of the ritual. Once she is deemed suitable for the ritual, traditionally her first client is the king, priest or the landlord. They are made to believe their emancipation lies in Vikraya (selling themselves). Several NGOs and women's organizations in Saudatti and Gokak are working towards eradicating this.

NUDE PARADE

The nude parade at Chandragutti is among the most sensational rituals since centuries. Hundreds of men and women gather at this village in Shimoga district during the Renuka temple fair in March. They take a dip in the Varada river and walk to the hill top bare-bodied to offer prayers to the local deity Matangi.
   All hell broke loose in March 1986, when police and NGOs tried to stop the ritual and media persons tried to cover it. Angry worshippers chased and stripped some policemen and activists. The government banned the practice in 1986. Officials believe the ritual no longer exists. But in 1993, there were reports that the practice had resumed.

CELEBRITY STATUS



BALU MAMA'S SHEEP

Some practices have, of late, caught the fancy of celebrities. Grazing Balu Mama's sheep has gained popularity among netas, who believe it brings poll victory. Leaders like Basavaraj Bommai, K S Eshwarappa and Shivarama Gowda have grazed these sheep in the past. Balu Mama was a saint in Maharashtra in the 19th century who endowed a herd of sheep the power to bless others. The strain of those chosen sheep has been carefully preserved by some families. These families go around grazing their sheep and allow devotees to have a darshan of the animals they consider sacred. Believers also claim that a ram among the herd gives milk. Veterinary doctors say it is a hormonal anomaly.

WHY HERE?

Experts say prolonged poverty, low literacy levels and lack of exposure to modern living foster such mindsets in these predominantly rural areas. Higher levels of education, stricter implementation of anti-superstition laws and increasing awareness can bring about a change. "Low literacy levels and biting poverty lead to a fatalistic attitude. This mindset leads to the birth and continued existence of blind belief," says rationalist Shridhar Kadam of Hubli, explaining the high occurrence of such rituals in the areas. However, Belgaum-based thinker and activist Dilip Kamath says "Blind belief is not limited to any region. It exists across the state and the country. However, it gets accentuated in backward areas like north Karnataka.''

THE FUNNY SIDE



WALKING BACKWARDS

Reaching the Dyamavva shrine in Ugargol, Belgaum district, might turn out to be quite a task, especially if you are travelling alone. The ritual here demands that after climbing the hillock to go to the temple, the head of the family walks with his back to the temple's front door!

LIQUOR OFFERING

At the Babaladi temple in Bijapur, teetotallers are likely to feel a bit out of place. The traditional sacred offering to Goddess Chandramma Devi is liquor. A travel advisory of this place might read like this: "A visit to this place keeps your spirits high."

WHAT CAN BE DONE?

Rationalists feel it is not impossible to lead people away from blind belief. "We need to address the issue as a package of social and economic deprivation. People affected by superstition should be taken into confidence and involved in the change process,'' Kamath said. Narendra Nayak, president of the Federation of Indian Rationalist Associations, feels it is wrong to think that higher education levels will automatically set things right. It is possible by promoting scientific temper. "However, any superstition can be eradicated over time. It needs concerted efforts by concerned groups. Our constitution says that developing scientific temper and promoting the spirit of inquiry is our fundamental duty. Each of us should follow it," he said.

[cid:image001.jpg@...]
BLINDED BY FAITH

[cid:image002.jpg@...]
NO FIERY TEST

[cid:image003.jpg@...]
ABUSING INNOCENCE

[cid:image004.jpg@...]
SINNED AGAINST



=============================
With best regards,
Debanjan Ray


________________________________
Important notice: This e-mail and any attachment there to contains corporate proprietary information. If you have received it by mistake, please notify us immediately by reply e-mail and delete this e-mail and its attachments from your system.
Thank You.

 
 
 
 

[Rahul Dev Sharma]

Dear Debanjan,

We should ask ourselves

Is Brahmoism about rationalism ?
Is the Brahmo Samaj a NGO ?
What is the purpose of such messages being collectively mailed to
"Brahmos" by these groups ?
Are messages on Hitler's supposed management genius relevant to "Brahmos" ?
Is the suppression of  sati and similar practices important in modern
Brahmoism ?

Regretably no Brahmo is prepared to publicly debate such matters (or
the earlier 8 I had listed).

Rahul

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Ray, Debanjan  IN BLR SISL
<debanjan.ray@...> wrote:

>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> I read some interesting article in yesterday’s Times of India, Bangalore
> edition, page-6
>
> Visit: http://epaper.timesofindia.com
> =============================
>
> Rituals and superstition rule
>
> Despite Campaigns By Rationalists And NGOs, Many Of Them Continue To Be
> Practised
>
> Rishikesh Bahadur Desai | TNN
>
> Hubli: North Karnataka abounds with stories of rituals based on blind belief
> and superstition. The occurrence and intensity of the rituals have reduced
> over the years, but continue to hold sway.
>    While some rituals like asking a person from the Kuruba community to make
> the first purchase in a new shop are habitually observed, there are others
> that are inhuman, and dangerous. There are others that can be funny too.
>
> DANGEROUS RITUALS
>
> WALKING ON FIRE
>
> The most common ritual practised here is walking on fire. It is observed by
> members of several communities across the state. It is held in temples and
> mosques. The faithful say the ritual washes away their sins. Efforts to stop
> the ritual have been of little help, probably because it is not as dangerous
> as it seems.
>
> HANGING BY HOOKS
>
> The Sidi ritual, made famous by Kamal Hassan in the film Dashavataram is in
> vogue in temple fairs in Bijapur, Gulbarga and other districts. One hangs by
> steel hooks from a rope attached to a high mastpole. This ritual gets
> bizarre at times. Last year, a woman tied a calf to her belly while she hung
> from the hooks in the Maruteshwar temple fair in Bijapur. The NHRC has asked
> the Gulbarga DC to stop the practice in the Bhagyavanti temple in Ghattarga,
> after the Rationalist Association demonstrated that there was no miracle in
> it.
>
> THROWING BABIES
>
> It is believed that throwing babies down from atop a temple in Nidoni,
> Bijapur district, makes the toddlers strong. The father or uncle takes the
> baby to the temple roof and drops it down. However, the baby is not hurt as
> it falls on the chaddar or sacred cloth devotees hold like a net.
>    A more recent ritual is Ayyappa devotees dunking babies in boiling oil.
> Rationalists say devotees passed off cold oil with froth as boiling oil.
> While the police said they would act only against complaints, the department
> of social welfare had said it would take action. But one year and two more
> such incidents later, district officials are yet to take action.
>
> BHANAMATI
>
> The most dangerous belief is that of Bhanamati. It exists in many forms.
> Psychosomatic disorders are confused for enchantment. Bodies being taken
> over by ghosts, sorcery and physical violence are common. Magic tricks like
> wooden objects catching fire seemingly by themselves are all attributed to
> Bhanamati. The incidence is high in Gulbarga and Bidar. A macabre incident
> of a girl hung upside down and left to die in a jungle in Gulbarga brought
> the practice nationwide attention a few years ago. NGOs have been fighting
> it.
>
> KARANIKA PENANCE
>
> At fairs in Devaragudda and Mailar in Haveri district, devotees believe the
> reigning deity Mailara Linga is pleased by physical penance. Goravas, or
> worshippers who take up penance, whip themselves, bind themselves in chains,
> bark like dogs, eat directly from plates or dance like horses.
>    The most excruciating is the Karanika penance where he fasts for a day
> and climbs a 12-metre bow. He jumps onto a cloth held below, uttering a
> complex phrase which the priests decipher as the Gods’ prediction for the
> coming year. Some pierce their bodies with thorns and nails.
>
> DEHUMANIZING
>
>
>
> DEVADASI SYSTEM
>
> The oldest tradition that grew out of superstition is the Devadasi system.
> This evil system that has pushed several thousands of women into
> prostitution is based on the belief that a woman who is married to the Lord
> becomes a ‘Nitya Sumangali, an eternally auspicious woman.
>    Gejje Pooje or the worship of the ankle bells; Kalyana or the symbolic
> marriage to the trident, spear or linga (the phallic image of God);
> dedication and branding with a heated trident on her right upper arm to test
> her purity are all part of the ritual. Once she is deemed suitable for the
> ritual, traditionally her first client is the king, priest or the landlord.
> They are made to believe their emancipation lies in Vikraya (selling
> themselves). Several NGOs and women’s organizations in Saudatti and Gokak
> are working towards eradicating this.
>
> NUDE PARADE
>
> The nude parade at Chandragutti is among the most sensational rituals since
> centuries. Hundreds of men and women gather at this village in Shimoga
> district during the Renuka temple fair in March. They take a dip in the
> Varada river and walk to the hill top bare-bodied to offer prayers to the
> local deity Matangi.
>    All hell broke loose in March 1986, when police and NGOs tried to stop
> the ritual and media persons tried to cover it. Angry worshippers chased and
> stripped some policemen and activists. The government banned the practice in
> 1986. Officials believe the ritual no longer exists. But in 1993, there were
> reports that the practice had resumed.
>
> CELEBRITY STATUS
>
>
>
> BALU MAMA’S SHEEP
>
> Some practices have, of late, caught the fancy of celebrities. Grazing Balu
> Mama’s sheep has gained popularity among netas, who believe it brings poll
> victory. Leaders like Basavaraj Bommai, K S Eshwarappa and Shivarama Gowda
> have grazed these sheep in the past. Balu Mama was a saint in Maharashtra in
> the 19th century who endowed a herd of sheep the power to bless others. The
> strain of those chosen sheep has been carefully preserved by some families.
> These families go around grazing their sheep and allow devotees to have a
> darshan of the animals they consider sacred. Believers also claim that a ram
> among the herd gives milk. Veterinary doctors say it is a hormonal anomaly.
>
> WHY HERE?
>
> Experts say prolonged poverty, low literacy levels and lack of exposure to
> modern living foster such mindsets in these predominantly rural areas.
> Higher levels of education, stricter implementation of anti-superstition
> laws and increasing awareness can bring about a change. “Low literacy levels
> and biting poverty lead to a fatalistic attitude. This mindset leads to the
> birth and continued existence of blind belief,” says rationalist Shridhar
> Kadam of Hubli, explaining the high occurrence of such rituals in the areas.
> However, Belgaum-based thinker and activist Dilip Kamath says “Blind belief
> is not limited to any region. It exists across the state and the country.
> However, it gets accentuated in backward areas like north Karnataka.’’
>
> THE FUNNY SIDE
>
>
>
> WALKING BACKWARDS
>
> Reaching the Dyamavva shrine in Ugargol, Belgaum district, might turn out to
> be quite a task, especially if you are travelling alone. The ritual here
> demands that after climbing the hillock to go to the temple, the head of the
> family walks with his back to the temple’s front door!
>
> LIQUOR OFFERING
>
> At the Babaladi temple in Bijapur, teetotallers are likely to feel a bit out
> of place. The traditional sacred offering to Goddess Chandramma Devi is
> liquor. A travel advisory of this place might read like this: “A visit to
> this place keeps your spirits high.”
>
> WHAT CAN BE DONE?
>
> Rationalists feel it is not impossible to lead people away from blind
> belief. “We need to address the issue as a package of social and economic
> deprivation. People affected by superstition should be taken into confidence
> and involved in the change process,’’ Kamath said. Narendra Nayak, president
> of the Federation of Indian Rationalist Associations, feels it is wrong to
> think that higher education levels will automatically set things right. It
> is possible by promoting scientific temper. “However, any superstition can
> be eradicated over time. It needs concerted efforts by concerned groups. Our
> constitution says that developing scientific temper and promoting the spirit
> of inquiry is our fundamental duty. Each of us should follow it,” he said.
>
>
> With best regards,
> Debanjan Ray

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brahmoconferenceorg/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/brahmoconferenceorg/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:brahmoconferenceorg-digest@...
    mailto:brahmoconferenceorg-fullfeatured@...

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    brahmoconferenceorg-unsubscribe@...

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[biswajit dutta-2]

Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism :-
a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness . It denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very occasionally practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo jumbo/black magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our population .
c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs to be source agnostic  . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion . Mere mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too far back .
d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very relevant .
e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to debate schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so enthusiastic about . Why rake up the past ?
What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to pertain to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
Regards,
Biswajit Dutta

--- On Sat, 16/5/09, Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

From: Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...>
Subject: Re: [brahmoconferenceorg] Rituals and superstition rule
To: brahmoconferenceorg@...
Date: Saturday, 16 May, 2009, 12:29 PM

Dear Debanjan,

We should ask ourselves

Is Brahmoism about rationalism ?
Is the Brahmo Samaj a NGO ?
What is the purpose of such messages being collectively mailed to
"Brahmos" by these groups ?
Are messages on Hitler's supposed management genius relevant to "Brahmos" ?
Is the suppression of  sati and similar practices important in modern
Brahmoism ?

Regretably no Brahmo is prepared to publicly debate such matters (or
the earlier 8 I had listed).

Rahul

On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Ray, Debanjan  IN BLR SISL
<debanjan.ray@...> wrote:

>
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> I read some interesting article in yesterday’s Times of India, Bangalore
> edition, page-6
>
> Visit: http://epaper.timesofindia.com
> =============================
>
> Rituals and superstition rule
>
> Despite Campaigns By Rationalists And NGOs, Many Of Them Continue To Be
> Practised
>
> Rishikesh Bahadur Desai | TNN
>
> Hubli: North Karnataka abounds with stories of rituals based on blind belief
> and superstition. The occurrence and intensity of the rituals have reduced
> over the years, but continue to hold sway.
>    While some rituals like asking a person from the Kuruba community to make
> the first purchase in a new shop are habitually observed, there are others
> that are inhuman, and dangerous. There are others that can be funny too.
>
> DANGEROUS RITUALS
>
> WALKING ON FIRE
>
> The most common ritual practised here is walking on fire. It is observed by
> members of several communities across the state. It is held in temples and
> mosques. The faithful say the ritual washes away their sins. Efforts to stop
> the ritual have been of little help, probably because it is not as dangerous
> as it seems.
>
> HANGING BY HOOKS
>
> The Sidi ritual, made famous by Kamal Hassan in the film Dashavataram is in
> vogue in temple fairs in Bijapur, Gulbarga and other districts. One hangs by
> steel hooks from a rope attached to a high mastpole. This ritual gets
> bizarre at times. Last year, a woman tied a calf to her belly while she hung
> from the hooks in the Maruteshwar temple fair in Bijapur. The NHRC has asked
> the Gulbarga DC to stop the practice in the Bhagyavanti temple in Ghattarga,
> after the Rationalist Association demonstrated that there was no miracle in
> it.
>
> THROWING BABIES
>
> It is believed that throwing babies down from atop a temple in Nidoni,
> Bijapur district, makes the toddlers strong. The father or uncle takes the
> baby to the temple roof and drops it down. However, the baby is not hurt as
> it falls on the chaddar or sacred cloth devotees hold like a net.
>    A more recent ritual is Ayyappa devotees dunking babies in boiling oil.
> Rationalists say devotees passed off cold oil with froth as boiling oil.
> While the police said they would act only against complaints, the department
> of social welfare had said it would take action. But one year and two more
> such incidents later, district officials are yet to take action.
>
> BHANAMATI
>
> The most dangerous belief is that of Bhanamati. It exists in many forms.
> Psychosomatic disorders are confused for enchantment. Bodies being taken
> over by ghosts, sorcery and physical violence are common. Magic tricks like
> wooden objects catching fire seemingly by themselves are all attributed to
> Bhanamati. The incidence is high in Gulbarga and Bidar. A macabre incident
> of a girl hung upside down and left to die in a jungle in Gulbarga brought
> the practice nationwide attention a few years ago. NGOs have been fighting
> it.
>
> KARANIKA PENANCE
>
> At fairs in Devaragudda and Mailar in Haveri district, devotees believe the
> reigning deity Mailara Linga is pleased by physical penance. Goravas, or
> worshippers who take up penance, whip themselves, bind themselves in chains,
> bark like dogs, eat directly from plates or dance like horses.
>    The most excruciating is the Karanika penance where he fasts for a day
> and climbs a 12-metre bow. He jumps onto a cloth held below, uttering a
> complex phrase which the priests decipher as the Gods’ prediction for the
> coming year. Some pierce their bodies with thorns and nails.
>
> DEHUMANIZING
>
>
>
> DEVADASI SYSTEM
>
> The oldest tradition that grew out of superstition is the Devadasi system.
> This evil system that has pushed several thousands of women into
> prostitution is based on the belief that a woman who is married to the Lord
> becomes a ‘Nitya Sumangali, an eternally auspicious woman.
>    Gejje Pooje or the worship of the ankle bells; Kalyana or the symbolic
> marriage to the trident, spear or linga (the phallic image of God);
> dedication and branding with a heated trident on her right upper arm to test
> her purity are all part of the ritual. Once she is deemed suitable for the
> ritual, traditionally her first client is the king, priest or the landlord.
> They are made to believe their emancipation lies in Vikraya (selling
> themselves). Several NGOs and women’s organizations in Saudatti and Gokak
> are working towards eradicating this.
>
> NUDE PARADE
>
> The nude parade at Chandragutti is among the most sensational rituals since
> centuries. Hundreds of men and women gather at this village in Shimoga
> district during the Renuka temple fair in March. They take a dip in the
> Varada river and walk to the hill top bare-bodied to offer prayers to the
> local deity Matangi.
>    All hell broke loose in March 1986, when police and NGOs tried to stop
> the ritual and media persons tried to cover it. Angry worshippers chased and
> stripped some policemen and activists. The government banned the practice in
> 1986. Officials believe the ritual no longer exists. But in 1993, there were
> reports that the practice had resumed.
>
> CELEBRITY STATUS
>
>
>
> BALU MAMA’S SHEEP
>
> Some practices have, of late, caught the fancy of celebrities. Grazing Balu
> Mama’s sheep has gained popularity among netas, who believe it brings poll
> victory. Leaders like Basavaraj Bommai, K S Eshwarappa and Shivarama Gowda
> have grazed these sheep in the past. Balu Mama was a saint in Maharashtra in
> the 19th century who endowed a herd of sheep the power to bless others. The
> strain of those chosen sheep has been carefully preserved by some families.
> These families go around grazing their sheep and allow devotees to have a
> darshan of the animals they consider sacred. Believers also claim that a ram
> among the herd gives milk. Veterinary doctors say it is a hormonal anomaly.
>
> WHY HERE?
>
> Experts say prolonged poverty, low literacy levels and lack of exposure to
> modern living foster such mindsets in these predominantly rural areas.
> Higher levels of education, stricter implementation of anti-superstition
> laws and increasing awareness can bring about a change. “Low literacy levels
> and biting poverty lead to a fatalistic attitude. This mindset leads to the
> birth and continued existence of blind belief,” says rationalist Shridhar
> Kadam of Hubli, explaining the high occurrence of such rituals in the areas.
> However, Belgaum-based thinker and activist Dilip Kamath says “Blind belief
> is not limited to any region. It exists across the state and the country.
> However, it gets accentuated in backward areas like north Karnataka.’’
>
> THE FUNNY SIDE
>
>
>
> WALKING BACKWARDS
>
> Reaching the Dyamavva shrine in Ugargol, Belgaum district, might turn out to
> be quite a task, especially if you are travelling alone. The ritual here
> demands that after climbing the hillock to go to the temple, the head of the
> family walks with his back to the temple’s front door!
>
> LIQUOR OFFERING
>
> At the Babaladi temple in Bijapur, teetotallers are likely to feel a bit out
> of place. The traditional sacred offering to Goddess Chandramma Devi is
> liquor. A travel advisory of this place might read like this: “A visit to
> this place keeps your spirits high.”
>
> WHAT CAN BE DONE?
>
> Rationalists feel it is not impossible to lead people away from blind
> belief. “We need to address the issue as a package of social and economic
> deprivation. People affected by superstition should be taken into confidence
> and involved in the change process,’’ Kamath said. Narendra Nayak, president
> of the Federation of Indian Rationalist Associations, feels it is wrong to
> think that higher education levels will automatically set things right. It
> is possible by promoting scientific temper. “However, any superstition can
> be eradicated over time. It needs concerted efforts by concerned groups. Our
> constitution says that developing scientific temper and promoting the spirit
> of inquiry is our fundamental duty. Each of us should follow it,” he said.
>
>
> With best regards,
> Debanjan Ray

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links






      Own a website.Get an unlimited package.Pay next to nothing.*Go to http://in.business.yahoo.com/

[Rahul Dev Sharma]

Dear Mr Biswajit

'Ad homimem' attacks are what trivialise the real issues. I am glad
that we at least agree that superstition, mumbo-jumbo, dogma and
non-reason etc are opposed to Brahmoism. But how many others here (so
called Brahmos), would agree with you or me ?

The current articles of faith for "True Brahmos" being very well
defined, you may clarify if you reject / disagree with any of them, as
only then can our debate proceed:-
(source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_religion )

* Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
* Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
intuition (observation) as guides.
* Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
of religious belief by government).
* Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
principles.
* Brahmos reject narrow theism (especially polytheism), idolatry and symbolism.
* Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
(church, temple, mosque) for worship.
* Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
* Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
* Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or avatars as
authority.
* Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
* Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
* Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "sin".
* Brahmos examine the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
* Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "salvation".

( Adherence to these articles are required only of Adi Brahmos or such
Sadharan Brahmos who accept Adi-ism ie. Trust deed of Brahmo Sabha
1830 as the source of their faith or Trust deed of Sadharan Brahmo
Samaj 1880)

We may also consider that no matter how much we may disagree with
others and their irrational (to us) beliefs, Brahmoism does not permit
us to disparage them / their beliefs publicly.

Finally, concerning the issues which nobody wishes to rake up, it is
precisely because nobody wishes to discuss them that they must be
exposed publicly in dedicated groups such as this, and knowledgeable
people like you must participate.

Rahul

On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM, biswajit dutta
<bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:

>
>
> Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
> The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism :-
> a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness . It
> denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very occasionally
> practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
> b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo jumbo/black
> magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our population
> .
> c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs to be
> source agnostic  . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion . Mere
> mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too far back
> .
> d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very relevant .
> e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to debate
> schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so enthusiastic
> about . Why rake up the past ?
> What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
> f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to pertain
> to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
> Regards,
> Biswajit Dutta
>
>

[sarbajitr]

Dear Rahul,

1) The "articles of faith" on wikipedia were lifted from a website I currently own "http://brahmosamaj.org". The text is from well researched and authentic sources (which I am sure you would acknowledge - privately if not publicly).

2) Biswajit Dutta. as I understand, is nominally a Sadharanite. Another Brahmo website I currently own "http://sadharanbrahmosamaj.org" has this to put forward as Sadharan dogma on reason / rationality which is being debated.

"We regard the culture of faith at the sacrifice of reason, or the culture of reason at the sacrifice of faith as equally defective, and as fruitful sources of evil in the religious world;"

3) Yet another Sadharan Brahmo Samaj "dogma" goes as follows
"We regard the worship of one God as the highest of a Brahmo's duties and as the best of means to improve the soul and the neglect of it as a way to spiritual death."

You Rahul, may care to defend your side's position on "soul" [or its purported lack] in Brahmoism.

Sarbajit Roy
New Delhi

--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

>
> Dear Mr Biswajit
>
> 'Ad homimem' attacks are what trivialise the real issues. I am glad
> that we at least agree that superstition, mumbo-jumbo, dogma and
> non-reason etc are opposed to Brahmoism. But how many others here (so
> called Brahmos), would agree with you or me ?
>
> The current articles of faith for "True Brahmos" being very well
> defined, you may clarify if you reject / disagree with any of them, as
> only then can our debate proceed:-
> (source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_religion )
>
> * Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
> * Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
> intuition (observation) as guides.
> * Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
> imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
> of religious belief by government).
> * Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
> governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
> principles.
> * Brahmos reject narrow theism (especially polytheism), idolatry and symbolism.
> * Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
> (church, temple, mosque) for worship.
> * Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
> * Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
> * Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or avatars as
> authority.
> * Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
> creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
> * Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "sin".
> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "salvation".
>
> ( Adherence to these articles are required only of Adi Brahmos or such
> Sadharan Brahmos who accept Adi-ism ie. Trust deed of Brahmo Sabha
> 1830 as the source of their faith or Trust deed of Sadharan Brahmo
> Samaj 1880)
>
> We may also consider that no matter how much we may disagree with
> others and their irrational (to us) beliefs, Brahmoism does not permit
> us to disparage them / their beliefs publicly.
>
> Finally, concerning the issues which nobody wishes to rake up, it is
> precisely because nobody wishes to discuss them that they must be
> exposed publicly in dedicated groups such as this, and knowledgeable
> people like you must participate.
>
> Rahul
>
> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM, biswajit dutta
> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
> > The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism :-
> > a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness . It
> > denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very occasionally
> > practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
> > b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo jumbo/black
> > magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our population
> > .
> > c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs to be
> > source agnostic  . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion . Mere
> > mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too far back
> > .
> > d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very relevant .
> > e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to debate
> > schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so enthusiastic
> > about . Why rake up the past ?
> > What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
> > f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to pertain
> > to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
> > Regards,
> > Biswajit Dutta
> >
> >
>

[Rahul Dev Sharma]

Dear sarbajit

I could not care to comment on the dogma of the Sadharan Brahma Samaj.
As we know, the primary division between Brahmas today is of
'anusthanic' Brahmas
and 'ananusthanic" Brahmas.

In the former category fall Adi Brahmos, AdiDharmaites and many
Sadharan Brahmos,
who collectively follow the Brahmic Trust Principles of 1830 and 1861 anusthan.
The notion of 'soul' is anathema to such Brahmos, being ruled out by
the 1861 anusthan
and is properly termed as "Being" (life). Every "unmortal" Being is a
part of God (Singularity, the Author
and Preserver of Existence) which is sent out for a mission on
completion of which it
reintegrates with "God".

"Being is created from Singularity. Being is renewed to Singularity.
Being exists to be one again with Loving Singularity."

Ananusthanic Brahmos on the other hand have a diferent notion of an
"immortal" soul being eternally progressive towards God for its
doings. This implies a karmic and fatalistic belief which is contrary
to rational Brahmoism. In the 'diksha' (initiation) given to such
followers they are quizzed on a catechism first compiled by Pandit
Sitanath Tattwabhushan around 1920 from Hemendranath's 1861 original
anusthan.

Acharya: What is your idea of the human soul?
Initiate: The human soul is capable of infinite progression to God for
its doings.

Acharya: What is your conception of Heaven and Hell?
Initiate: I do not believe that there are distinct regions as Heaven
and Hell. These correspond to spiritual conditions of individual
souls. When God reveals himself in our soul and divine bliss is
realised. I call this state Heaven; when the heart is vitiated with
evil thoughts I call this state Hell. God rewards virtue and punishes
sin. His punishments are remedial and not eternal.

Acharya: What is salvation?
Initiate: Salvation consists on the one hand in freedom from sin in
words, thoughts and deeds; and on the other hand in union with God in
wisdom, love and holiness. Man will ever approach, God in wisdom, love
and holiness. but will never merge his self in the Universal Soul.

Acharya: Then swear your faith in the principles of Brahmoism.
Initate:
I believe in God as the one only Creator and Sustainer of the world. I
believe him to be infinite in power, wisdom, love and holiness.
I believe the human soul to be immortal and eternally progressive.
I believe that God manifests himself directly to the soul of man and
that there are no mediators between God and the soul in the shape of
prephets or scriptures.
I honour and accept all religious teachers and books so far as they
are in harmony with direct revelation of God in the soul.
I resolve to worship God daily and to practise holiness with all my
heart and soul.
I abjure caste and idolatry, and resolve to perform all domestic
ceremonies according to the principles of the Brahmo Samaj. May God
help me in being faithful to the vow I take today.

Anyone who compares the complete articles of faith from the 1861
anusthan (which you have published on the website) with this corrupted
and Christianised version of the ananusthanics, will see how far these
"Brahmos" have deviated from True Brahmoism in order to Christianise
our creed.

Rahul

On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:50 PM, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:

>
>
> Dear Rahul,
>
> 1) The "articles of faith" on wikipedia were lifted from a website I
> currently own "http://brahmosamaj.org". The text is from well researched and
> authentic sources (which I am sure you would acknowledge - privately if not
> publicly).
>
> 2) Biswajit Dutta. as I understand, is nominally a Sadharanite. Another
> Brahmo website I currently own "http://sadharanbrahmosamaj.org" has this to
> put forward as Sadharan dogma on reason / rationality which is being
> debated.
>
> "We regard the culture of faith at the sacrifice of reason, or the culture
> of reason at the sacrifice of faith as equally defective, and as fruitful
> sources of evil in the religious world;"
>
> 3) Yet another Sadharan Brahmo Samaj "dogma" goes as follows
> "We regard the worship of one God as the highest of a Brahmo's duties and as
> the best of means to improve the soul and the neglect of it as a way to
> spiritual death."
>
> You Rahul, may care to defend your side's position on "soul" [or its
> purported lack] in Brahmoism.
>
> Sarbajit Roy
> New Delhi
>
> --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
> <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Mr Biswajit
>>
>> 'Ad homimem' attacks are what trivialise the real issues. I am glad
>> that we at least agree that superstition, mumbo-jumbo, dogma and
>> non-reason etc are opposed to Brahmoism. But how many others here (so
>> called Brahmos), would agree with you or me ?
>>
>> The current articles of faith for "True Brahmos" being very well
>> defined, you may clarify if you reject / disagree with any of them, as
>> only then can our debate proceed:-
>> (source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_religion )
>>
>> * Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
>> * Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
>> intuition (observation) as guides.
>> * Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
>> imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
>> of religious belief by government).
>> * Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
>> governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
>> principles.
>> * Brahmos reject narrow theism (especially polytheism), idolatry and
>> symbolism.
>> * Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
>> (church, temple, mosque) for worship.
>> * Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
>> * Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
>> * Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or avatars as
>> authority.
>> * Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
>> creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
>> * Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
>> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "sin".
>> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
>> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "salvation".
>>
>> ( Adherence to these articles are required only of Adi Brahmos or such
>> Sadharan Brahmos who accept Adi-ism ie. Trust deed of Brahmo Sabha
>> 1830 as the source of their faith or Trust deed of Sadharan Brahmo
>> Samaj 1880)
>>
>> We may also consider that no matter how much we may disagree with
>> others and their irrational (to us) beliefs, Brahmoism does not permit
>> us to disparage them / their beliefs publicly.
>>
>> Finally, concerning the issues which nobody wishes to rake up, it is
>> precisely because nobody wishes to discuss them that they must be
>> exposed publicly in dedicated groups such as this, and knowledgeable
>> people like you must participate.
>>
>> Rahul
>>
>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM, biswajit dutta
>> <bis_dutta2000@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
>> > The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism :-
>> > a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness . It
>> > denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very
>> > occasionally
>> > practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
>> > b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo
>> > jumbo/black
>> > magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our
>> > population
>> > .
>> > c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs to
>> > be
>> > source agnostic  . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion .
>> > Mere
>> > mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too far
>> > back
>> > .
>> > d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very
>> > relevant .
>> > e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to
>> > debate
>> > schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so
>> > enthusiastic
>> > about . Why rake up the past ?
>> > What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
>> > f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to
>> > pertain
>> > to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
>> > Regards,
>> > Biswajit Dutta
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

[sarbajitr]

So as I understand it now, Brahmoism holds:-

1) Every Being is a "part" authored by "God"

2) The notion of "soul" is a Christian concept inserted to bring alien notions like "sin", "salvation", "Heaven", "Hell", "Fatherhood of God" etc into the Brahmo space and to confuse and ensnare our adherents to Christianity (or worse).

3) That once we remove the entire alien notions of "soul", a "limited" God etc. from the Sadharan catechism / dikha we end up with

a) I believe in God as the One - Author and Preserver of Existence.
b) I believe that God manifests himself directly to Being and
that there are no mediators between God and Being in the shape of
prophets or scriptures.
c) I honour and accept all religious teachers and books so far as they are in harmony with direct revelation of God to Being.
d) I resolve to worship God daily and to practise holiness at all times anywhere.
e) I abjure caste and idolatry, and resolve to perform all domestic
observances according to the principles of the Brahmo Samaj. May God
help me in being faithful to the vow I take today.

Which, or something on these lines, should be acceptable to most Brahmos, notwithstanding the fact that such blandness utterly fails to convey why Brahmoism is UNIQUE. On second thoughts though, I will stick to the original version (partially available on http://brahmosamaj.org ) and not go with these remixes.

Sarbajit Roy

--- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:

>
> Dear sarbajit
>
> I could not care to comment on the dogma of the Sadharan Brahma Samaj.
> As we know, the primary division between Brahmas today is of
> 'anusthanic' Brahmas
> and 'ananusthanic" Brahmas.
>
> In the former category fall Adi Brahmos, AdiDharmaites and many
> Sadharan Brahmos,
> who collectively follow the Brahmic Trust Principles of 1830 and 1861 anusthan.
> The notion of 'soul' is anathema to such Brahmos, being ruled out by
> the 1861 anusthan
> and is properly termed as "Being" (life). Every "unmortal" Being is a
> part of God (Singularity, the Author
> and Preserver of Existence) which is sent out for a mission on
> completion of which it
> reintegrates with "God".
>
> "Being is created from Singularity. Being is renewed to Singularity.
> Being exists to be one again with Loving Singularity."
>
> Ananusthanic Brahmos on the other hand have a diferent notion of an
> "immortal" soul being eternally progressive towards God for its
> doings. This implies a karmic and fatalistic belief which is contrary
> to rational Brahmoism. In the 'diksha' (initiation) given to such
> followers they are quizzed on a catechism first compiled by Pandit
> Sitanath Tattwabhushan around 1920 from Hemendranath's 1861 original
> anusthan.
>
> Acharya: What is your idea of the human soul?
> Initiate: The human soul is capable of infinite progression to God for
> its doings.
>
> Acharya: What is your conception of Heaven and Hell?
> Initiate: I do not believe that there are distinct regions as Heaven
> and Hell. These correspond to spiritual conditions of individual
> souls. When God reveals himself in our soul and divine bliss is
> realised. I call this state Heaven; when the heart is vitiated with
> evil thoughts I call this state Hell. God rewards virtue and punishes
> sin. His punishments are remedial and not eternal.
>
> Acharya: What is salvation?
> Initiate: Salvation consists on the one hand in freedom from sin in
> words, thoughts and deeds; and on the other hand in union with God in
> wisdom, love and holiness. Man will ever approach, God in wisdom, love
> and holiness. but will never merge his self in the Universal Soul.
>
> Acharya: Then swear your faith in the principles of Brahmoism.
> Initate:
> I believe in God as the one only Creator and Sustainer of the world. I
> believe him to be infinite in power, wisdom, love and holiness.
> I believe the human soul to be immortal and eternally progressive.
> I believe that God manifests himself directly to the soul of man and
> that there are no mediators between God and the soul in the shape of
> prephets or scriptures.
> I honour and accept all religious teachers and books so far as they
> are in harmony with direct revelation of God in the soul.
> I resolve to worship God daily and to practise holiness with all my
> heart and soul.
> I abjure caste and idolatry, and resolve to perform all domestic
> ceremonies according to the principles of the Brahmo Samaj. May God
> help me in being faithful to the vow I take today.
>
> Anyone who compares the complete articles of faith from the 1861
> anusthan (which you have published on the website) with this corrupted
> and Christianised version of the ananusthanics, will see how far these
> "Brahmos" have deviated from True Brahmoism in order to Christianise
> our creed.
>
> Rahul
>
> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:50 PM, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Dear Rahul,
> >
> > 1) The "articles of faith" on wikipedia were lifted from a website I
> > currently own "http://brahmosamaj.org". The text is from well researched and
> > authentic sources (which I am sure you would acknowledge - privately if not
> > publicly).
> >
> > 2) Biswajit Dutta. as I understand, is nominally a Sadharanite. Another
> > Brahmo website I currently own "http://sadharanbrahmosamaj.org" has this to
> > put forward as Sadharan dogma on reason / rationality which is being
> > debated.
> >
> > "We regard the culture of faith at the sacrifice of reason, or the culture
> > of reason at the sacrifice of faith as equally defective, and as fruitful
> > sources of evil in the religious world;"
> >
> > 3) Yet another Sadharan Brahmo Samaj "dogma" goes as follows
> > "We regard the worship of one God as the highest of a Brahmo's duties and as
> > the best of means to improve the soul and the neglect of it as a way to
> > spiritual death."
> >
> > You Rahul, may care to defend your side's position on "soul" [or its
> > purported lack] in Brahmoism.
> >
> > Sarbajit Roy
> > New Delhi
> >
> > --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
> > <rahul.dvsharma@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Biswajit
> >>
> >> 'Ad homimem' attacks are what trivialise the real issues. I am glad
> >> that we at least agree that superstition, mumbo-jumbo, dogma and
> >> non-reason etc are opposed to Brahmoism. But how many others here (so
> >> called Brahmos), would agree with you or me ?
> >>
> >> The current articles of faith for "True Brahmos" being very well
> >> defined, you may clarify if you reject / disagree with any of them, as
> >> only then can our debate proceed:-
> >> (source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_religion )
> >>
> >> * Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
> >> * Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
> >> intuition (observation) as guides.
> >> * Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
> >> imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
> >> of religious belief by government).
> >> * Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
> >> governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
> >> principles.
> >> * Brahmos reject narrow theism (especially polytheism), idolatry and
> >> symbolism.
> >> * Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
> >> (church, temple, mosque) for worship.
> >> * Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
> >> * Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
> >> * Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or avatars as
> >> authority.
> >> * Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
> >> creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
> >> * Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "sin".
> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "salvation".
> >>
> >> ( Adherence to these articles are required only of Adi Brahmos or such
> >> Sadharan Brahmos who accept Adi-ism ie. Trust deed of Brahmo Sabha
> >> 1830 as the source of their faith or Trust deed of Sadharan Brahmo
> >> Samaj 1880)
> >>
> >> We may also consider that no matter how much we may disagree with
> >> others and their irrational (to us) beliefs, Brahmoism does not permit
> >> us to disparage them / their beliefs publicly.
> >>
> >> Finally, concerning the issues which nobody wishes to rake up, it is
> >> precisely because nobody wishes to discuss them that they must be
> >> exposed publicly in dedicated groups such as this, and knowledgeable
> >> people like you must participate.
> >>
> >> Rahul
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM, biswajit dutta
> >> <bis_dutta2000@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
> >> > The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism :-
> >> > a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness . It
> >> > denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very
> >> > occasionally
> >> > practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
> >> > b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo
> >> > jumbo/black
> >> > magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our
> >> > population
> >> > .
> >> > c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs to
> >> > be
> >> > source agnostic  . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion .
> >> > Mere
> >> > mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too far
> >> > back
> >> > .
> >> > d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very
> >> > relevant .
> >> > e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to
> >> > debate
> >> > schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so
> >> > enthusiastic
> >> > about . Why rake up the past ?
> >> > What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
> >> > f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to
> >> > pertain
> >> > to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
> >> > Regards,
> >> > Biswajit Dutta
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>

[Saurav Brahmogroups]

Dear Mr Roy,

You have overlooked a key phraase in the SB Samaj diksha

">> Acharya: What is salvation?
>> Initiate: Salvation consists on the one hand in freedom from sin in
>> words, thoughts and deeds; and on the other hand in union with God in
>> wisdom, love and holiness. Man will ever approach, God in wisdom, love
>> and holiness. but will never merge his self in the Universal Soul."

Man (as per the Sadharanites) will "approach God" but never merge with him.
This corresponds to Judeo-Christian-Islamic beliefs that Man is a
fallen creature
forever cast out from God's kingdom due to original "sin".

In Truth
Saurav

On 5/17/09, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:

> So as I understand it now, Brahmoism holds:-
>
> 1) Every Being is a "part" authored by "God"
>
> 2) The notion of "soul" is a Christian concept inserted to bring alien
> notions like "sin", "salvation", "Heaven", "Hell", "Fatherhood of God" etc
> into the Brahmo space and to confuse and ensnare our adherents to
> Christianity (or worse).
>
> 3) That once we remove the entire alien notions of "soul", a "limited" God
> etc. from the Sadharan catechism / dikha we end up with
>
> a) I believe in God as the One - Author and Preserver of Existence.
> b) I believe that God manifests himself directly to Being and
> that there are no mediators between God and Being in the shape of
> prophets or scriptures.
> c) I honour and accept all religious teachers and books so far as they are
> in harmony with direct revelation of God to Being.
> d) I resolve to worship God daily and to practise holiness at all times
> anywhere.
> e) I abjure caste and idolatry, and resolve to perform all domestic
> observances according to the principles of the Brahmo Samaj. May God
> help me in being faithful to the vow I take today.
>
> Which, or something on these lines, should be acceptable to most Brahmos,
> notwithstanding the fact that such blandness utterly fails to convey why
> Brahmoism is UNIQUE. On second thoughts though, I will stick to the original
> version (partially available on http://brahmosamaj.org ) and not go with
> these remixes.
>
> Sarbajit Roy
>
> --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
> <rahul.dvsharma@...> wrote:
>>
>> Dear sarbajit
>>
>> I could not care to comment on the dogma of the Sadharan Brahma Samaj.
>> As we know, the primary division between Brahmas today is of
>> 'anusthanic' Brahmas
>> and 'ananusthanic" Brahmas.
>>
>> In the former category fall Adi Brahmos, AdiDharmaites and many
>> Sadharan Brahmos,
>> who collectively follow the Brahmic Trust Principles of 1830 and 1861
>> anusthan.
>> The notion of 'soul' is anathema to such Brahmos, being ruled out by
>> the 1861 anusthan
>> and is properly termed as "Being" (life). Every "unmortal" Being is a
>> part of God (Singularity, the Author
>> and Preserver of Existence) which is sent out for a mission on
>> completion of which it
>> reintegrates with "God".
>>
>> "Being is created from Singularity. Being is renewed to Singularity.
>> Being exists to be one again with Loving Singularity."
>>
>> Ananusthanic Brahmos on the other hand have a diferent notion of an
>> "immortal" soul being eternally progressive towards God for its
>> doings. This implies a karmic and fatalistic belief which is contrary
>> to rational Brahmoism. In the 'diksha' (initiation) given to such
>> followers they are quizzed on a catechism first compiled by Pandit
>> Sitanath Tattwabhushan around 1920 from Hemendranath's 1861 original
>> anusthan.
>>
>> Acharya: What is your idea of the human soul?
>> Initiate: The human soul is capable of infinite progression to God for
>> its doings.
>>
>> Acharya: What is your conception of Heaven and Hell?
>> Initiate: I do not believe that there are distinct regions as Heaven
>> and Hell. These correspond to spiritual conditions of individual
>> souls. When God reveals himself in our soul and divine bliss is
>> realised. I call this state Heaven; when the heart is vitiated with
>> evil thoughts I call this state Hell. God rewards virtue and punishes
>> sin. His punishments are remedial and not eternal.
>>
>> Acharya: What is salvation?
>> Initiate: Salvation consists on the one hand in freedom from sin in
>> words, thoughts and deeds; and on the other hand in union with God in
>> wisdom, love and holiness. Man will ever approach, God in wisdom, love
>> and holiness. but will never merge his self in the Universal Soul.
>>
>> Acharya: Then swear your faith in the principles of Brahmoism.
>> Initate:
>> I believe in God as the one only Creator and Sustainer of the world. I
>> believe him to be infinite in power, wisdom, love and holiness.
>> I believe the human soul to be immortal and eternally progressive.
>> I believe that God manifests himself directly to the soul of man and
>> that there are no mediators between God and the soul in the shape of
>> prephets or scriptures.
>> I honour and accept all religious teachers and books so far as they
>> are in harmony with direct revelation of God in the soul.
>> I resolve to worship God daily and to practise holiness with all my
>> heart and soul.
>> I abjure caste and idolatry, and resolve to perform all domestic
>> ceremonies according to the principles of the Brahmo Samaj. May God
>> help me in being faithful to the vow I take today.
>>
>> Anyone who compares the complete articles of faith from the 1861
>> anusthan (which you have published on the website) with this corrupted
>> and Christianised version of the ananusthanics, will see how far these
>> "Brahmos" have deviated from True Brahmoism in order to Christianise
>> our creed.
>>
>> Rahul
>>
>> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 6:50 PM, sroy1947 <sroy1947@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Dear Rahul,
>> >
>> > 1) The "articles of faith" on wikipedia were lifted from a website I
>> > currently own "http://brahmosamaj.org". The text is from well researched
>> > and
>> > authentic sources (which I am sure you would acknowledge - privately if
>> > not
>> > publicly).
>> >
>> > 2) Biswajit Dutta. as I understand, is nominally a Sadharanite. Another
>> > Brahmo website I currently own "http://sadharanbrahmosamaj.org" has this
>> > to
>> > put forward as Sadharan dogma on reason / rationality which is being
>> > debated.
>> >
>> > "We regard the culture of faith at the sacrifice of reason, or the
>> > culture
>> > of reason at the sacrifice of faith as equally defective, and as
>> > fruitful
>> > sources of evil in the religious world;"
>> >
>> > 3) Yet another Sadharan Brahmo Samaj "dogma" goes as follows
>> > "We regard the worship of one God as the highest of a Brahmo's duties
>> > and as
>> > the best of means to improve the soul and the neglect of it as a way to
>> > spiritual death."
>> >
>> > You Rahul, may care to defend your side's position on "soul" [or its
>> > purported lack] in Brahmoism.
>> >
>> > Sarbajit Roy
>> > New Delhi
>> >
>> > --- In brahmoconferenceorg@..., Rahul Dev Sharma
>> > <rahul.dvsharma@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Dear Mr Biswajit
>> >>
>> >> 'Ad homimem' attacks are what trivialise the real issues. I am glad
>> >> that we at least agree that superstition, mumbo-jumbo, dogma and
>> >> non-reason etc are opposed to Brahmoism. But how many others here (so
>> >> called Brahmos), would agree with you or me ?
>> >>
>> >> The current articles of faith for "True Brahmos" being very well
>> >> defined, you may clarify if you reject / disagree with any of them, as
>> >> only then can our debate proceed:-
>> >> (source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmo_religion )
>> >>
>> >> * Brahmos embrace righteousness as the only way of life.
>> >> * Brahmos embrace truth, knowledge, reason, free will and virtuous
>> >> intuition (observation) as guides.
>> >> * Brahmos embrace secular principles but oppose sectarianism and
>> >> imposition of religious belief into governance (especially propagation
>> >> of religious belief by government).
>> >> * Brahmos embrace the co-existence of Brahmo principles with
>> >> governance, but oppose all governance in conflict with Brahmo
>> >> principles.
>> >> * Brahmos reject narrow theism (especially polytheism), idolatry and
>> >> symbolism.
>> >> * Brahmos reject the need for formal rituals, priests or places
>> >> (church, temple, mosque) for worship.
>> >> * Brahmos reject dogma and superstition.
>> >> * Brahmos reject scripture as authority.
>> >> * Brahmos reject revelations, prophets, gurus, messiahs, or avatars as
>> >> authority.
>> >> * Brahmos reject bigotry and irrational distinctions like caste,
>> >> creed, colour, race, religion which divide beings.
>> >> * Brahmos reject all forms of totalitarianism.
>> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "sin".
>> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notions of "heaven" or "hell".
>> >> * Brahmos examine the prevalent notion of "salvation".
>> >>
>> >> ( Adherence to these articles are required only of Adi Brahmos or such
>> >> Sadharan Brahmos who accept Adi-ism ie. Trust deed of Brahmo Sabha
>> >> 1830 as the source of their faith or Trust deed of Sadharan Brahmo
>> >> Samaj 1880)
>> >>
>> >> We may also consider that no matter how much we may disagree with
>> >> others and their irrational (to us) beliefs, Brahmoism does not permit
>> >> us to disparage them / their beliefs publicly.
>> >>
>> >> Finally, concerning the issues which nobody wishes to rake up, it is
>> >> precisely because nobody wishes to discuss them that they must be
>> >> exposed publicly in dedicated groups such as this, and knowledgeable
>> >> people like you must participate.
>> >>
>> >> Rahul
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 3:47 PM, biswajit dutta
>> >> <bis_dutta2000@> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Dear Mr. Rahul Dev Sharma ,
>> >> > The messages you trying to trivialize are very germane to Brahmoism
>> >> > :-
>> >> > a)Brahmoism is all about logic, rationality & scientific mindedness .
>> >> > It
>> >> > denounces all social evils including Sati which is still very
>> >> > occasionally
>> >> > practiced & glorified by some Indians living in darkness .
>> >> > b)Brahmoism is dead set against all forms of superstitions/mumbo
>> >> > jumbo/black
>> >> > magic etc. which are as yet popular among a large segment of our
>> >> > population
>> >> > .
>> >> > c)Brahmoism is all about tolerance & open mindedness . Learning needs
>> >> > to
>> >> > be
>> >> > source agnostic  . Dogmas & set beliefs have no place in our religion
>> >> > .
>> >> > Mere
>> >> > mention of Hitler generated needless fury on the other site no too
>> >> > far
>> >> > back
>> >> > .
>> >> > d)All the above messages reinforce key Brahmo ideals & hence very
>> >> > relevant .
>> >> > e)I can confidently say that a majority of us are not at all keen to
>> >> > debate
>> >> > schisms , splits & controversies of the Brahmo Samaj you are so
>> >> > enthusiastic
>> >> > about . Why rake up the past ?
>> >> > What's the big deal washing dirty linen in public ?
>> >> > f)Last but not the least , most of the messages you have referred to
>> >> > pertain
>> >> > to the other site . Why is it being discussed here ?
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > Biswajit Dutta
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
>