Nabble - Rosegarden - User

Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-12-03T01:52:03Z

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 7:28 PM, Henry W. Peters <hwpeters@...> wrote:
> You possibly know already, but at least on my machine, the main window
> needs to be redrawn upon opening up... I do this by clicking on the
> Restore/Maximize window button (upper right).

Not a problem I'm familiar with either, but what happens if you run

$ rosegarden -graphicssystem native

?

Chris

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-12-02T20:25:29Z

D. Michael McIntyre wrote:

> On Wednesday 02 December 2009, Henry W. Peters wrote:
>
>> No such file. BUT, I looked in /usr/local/bin & this is what I found (I
>>
>> did a 'make install'):
>>
>
> Yeah, OK. How'd that work out for you? If you look through the Rosegarden
> source tree with a graphical file browser, the data/ directory (folder), are
> the right icons showing up in data/examples data/library and data/templates?
> (I'd really like to see how this does in a field test. If you see some kind
> of rose icon, you're good. If you see a generic looking "zip archive" type
> icon, something is still screwing up.)
>
>
>> Rosegarden version: 10.02-alpha2 ("Thorn")
>> Build key: 7271ff19b6
>> Built against Qt version: 4.5.3
>>
>> & I guess I'm going to need the command to generate the aforementioned
>> info... re RG problems, etc..
>>
>
> I showed the --version info for the wrong build, actually. My copy of the
> release tarball is also build key 7271ff19b6.
>
> I was expecting to see that you have an old version of Qt, which would have
> made it problematic for me to do anything about the issue you're having.
> Instead, I see you have a newer one.
>
> I don't have time for this today, but I need to get Qt 4.5.3 and build it and
> build Rosegarden against it and see if I can reproduce the problem you're
> having. Then I'll try to figure out what it is, and how to fix it.
>

I just downloaded XNC & looked in the /usr/local/bin & rosegarden was
there, the icon, looking more like a gear (as were the other programs
installed), than a rose... so hopefully, that is what you are speaking of.

Let me know, when you can, what is going on, & what is needed next. I'll
probably be fiddling around in the next few days with the RG, hopefully
with out too many scratches.

Just to reiterate, the quirky start, before mentioned, for RG, has been
consistent across about eight launches (not all of them were with any
time spent in RG).

Henry

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-12-02T19:14:25Z

On Wednesday 02 December 2009, Henry W. Peters wrote:
> No such file. BUT, I looked in /usr/local/bin & this is what I found (I
>
> did a 'make install'):

Yeah, OK. How'd that work out for you? If you look through the Rosegarden
source tree with a graphical file browser, the data/ directory (folder), are
the right icons showing up in data/examples data/library and data/templates?
(I'd really like to see how this does in a field test. If you see some kind
of rose icon, you're good. If you see a generic looking "zip archive" type
icon, something is still screwing up.)

> Rosegarden version: 10.02-alpha2 ("Thorn")
> Build key: 7271ff19b6
> Built against Qt version: 4.5.3
>
> & I guess I'm going to need the command to generate the aforementioned
> info... re RG problems, etc..

I showed the --version info for the wrong build, actually. My copy of the
release tarball is also build key 7271ff19b6.

I was expecting to see that you have an old version of Qt, which would have
made it problematic for me to do anything about the issue you're having.
Instead, I see you have a newer one.

I don't have time for this today, but I need to get Qt 4.5.3 and build it and
build Rosegarden against it and see if I can reproduce the problem you're
having. Then I'll try to figure out what it is, and how to fix it.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-12-02T17:25:49Z

D. Michael McIntyre wrote:

> On Wednesday 02 December 2009, Henry W. Peters wrote:
>
>
>> Any way, I installed Alpha2 this morning... & if all went as directed,
>> debug should be --enabled. The question remains, where is the output of
>> the debug? & what cases does it report, etc.? (in other words, its use/s)
>>
>
> If you run from the command line, you should see an enormous amount of text
> flying past. The other point of a debug build it that it has debugging
> symbols compiled in, so when it crashes, you can produce a trace that tells us
> something interesting about what was going on when it blew up, instead of a
> lot of ????????????? where the interesting parts should have been.
>
>
>> You possibly know already, but at least on my machine, the main window
>> needs to be redrawn upon opening up... I do this by clicking on the
>> Restore/Maximize window button (upper right).
>>
>
> No, I've never seen a problem like that.
>
> So for starters, what does
>
> ./rosegarden --version
>
> report?
>
> (Mine here says:
> Rosegarden version: 10.02 ("Thorn")
> Build key: 1d94b579b3
> Built against Qt version: 4.5.2)
>

No such file. BUT, I looked in /usr/local/bin & this is what I found (I
did a 'make install'):

:~$ /usr/local/bin/rosegarden --version
Rosegarden version: 10.02-alpha2 ("Thorn")
Build key: 7271ff19b6
Built against Qt version: 4.5.3

& I guess I'm going to need the command to generate the aforementioned
info... re RG problems, etc..

Hope this helps.

Henry

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-12-02T16:13:41Z

On Wednesday 02 December 2009, Henry W. Peters wrote:

> Any way, I installed Alpha2 this morning... & if all went as directed,
> debug should be --enabled. The question remains, where is the output of
> the debug? & what cases does it report, etc.? (in other words, its use/s)

If you run from the command line, you should see an enormous amount of text
flying past. The other point of a debug build it that it has debugging
symbols compiled in, so when it crashes, you can produce a trace that tells us
something interesting about what was going on when it blew up, instead of a
lot of ????????????? where the interesting parts should have been.

> You possibly know already, but at least on my machine, the main window
> needs to be redrawn upon opening up... I do this by clicking on the
> Restore/Maximize window button (upper right).

No, I've never seen a problem like that.

So for starters, what does

./rosegarden --version

report?

(Mine here says:
Rosegarden version: 10.02 ("Thorn")
Build key: 1d94b579b3
Built against Qt version: 4.5.2)
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-12-02T11:28:24Z

Well Micheal, you would only have had to "feel sorry for me" once :))

Any way, I installed Alpha2 this morning... & if all went as directed,
debug should be --enabled. The question remains, where is the output of
the debug? & what cases does it report, etc.? (in other words, its use/s)

You possibly know already, but at least on my machine, the main window
needs to be redrawn upon opening up... I do this by clicking on the
Restore/Maximize window button (upper right).

Regards,
Henry

P.s., thanks Emanuel Rumpf
D. Michael McIntyre wrote:

> On Tuesday 01 December 2009, Henry W. Peters wrote:
>
>
>> Well, my idea, based upon my impression that using it (debug, as stated
>> in the source code documentation read-me), could/might be able to
>> produce & then be able to contribute some helpful information to the
>> development of Rosegarden.
>>
>
> It's an alpha. It's going to crash. If it crashes and you have a release
> build, you can't provide stack traces, so all we can do is feel sorry for you
> that it crashed. Building such a thing with debugging enabled, therefore,
> makes perfect sense to me.
>
> Carry on.
>

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Re: archived rg files won't extract

2009-12-02T06:11:47Z

On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Charlie Bradley <cfbradleyiii@...> wrote:
> I may be in big trouble! I mad a backup of my /home using sbackup. I
> restored /home and now I cannot get any of my rg files to extract.

Do you mean that you have files with .rg extension (which "look"
correct in the file manager or directory listing or wherever) but
Rosegarden will not load them?

Or that you have .rgp project files and can't unpack them?

Or something else?

Can you send me an example file?

Chris

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archived rg files won't extract

2009-12-02T06:07:51Z

I may be in big trouble! I mad a backup of my /home using sbackup. I restored /home and now I cannot get any of my rg files to extract. Please HELP!

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Rosegarden 10.02-ALPHA 2 released

2009-12-01T21:19:12Z

Kind of a whimper of a release this time. I didn't write a new release note
or put together a list of everything we fixed and so on, or try to write up
some formal testing procedure.

https://sourceforge.net/projects/rosegarden/files/rosegarden-10.02-
alpha2.tar.bz2/download

alpha2 mostly concentrated on translation problems, the notation editor, and
some last-minute work on audio file naming conventions.

There are still three very serious notation bugs we can't release with, and I
am counting on Chris Cannam to solve at least two of them. I'm moving out of
notation, and I'm going to give the matrix the same treatment notation just
got, and this will be alpha3. Hopefully I can get this done within a week, as
there is much less to do here.

The primary objective for alpha3 is to get every last dusty corner of missing
functionality restored to the matrix, so that any lingering new strings for
translation are flushed out of hiding once and for all. Until that point, I
will not promise no new strings, but I do promise that I will do everything I
can to handle any changes I have to make to existing strings myself. When I
had to make a large round of changes between alpha1 and alpha2, I updated all
of the most current translations myself. I am painfully aware of what every
string change means from here, and I am doing the absolute bare minimum I have
to do when changes are unavoidable.

After alpha3, I will do a thorough feature review of the main window and
everything leading off of there, which is pretty much everything else in
Rosegarden. I'm saving this for last because I hope it will be the easiest
one to do in terms of turning up new release-critical bugs. I've found a
number of last minute main-window problems through the notation review, and
I'm feeling generally good about how that one will fare. After the main
window review, we enter beta, and we're getting into beta before December is
over come Hell or high water.

That will give us at least six weeks of beta before the release date arrives,
and we will release on February 14th, 2010 unless I'm dead or incapacitated.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-12-01T16:04:45Z

On Tuesday 01 December 2009, Henry W. Peters wrote:

> Well, my idea, based upon my impression that using it (debug, as stated
> in the source code documentation read-me), could/might be able to
> produce & then be able to contribute some helpful information to the
> development of Rosegarden.

It's an alpha. It's going to crash. If it crashes and you have a release
build, you can't provide stack traces, so all we can do is feel sorry for you
that it crashed. Building such a thing with debugging enabled, therefore,
makes perfect sense to me.

Carry on.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-12-01T06:07:58Z

Hi Al,

Well, my idea, based upon my impression that using it (debug, as stated
in the source code documentation read-me), could/might be able to
produce & then be able to contribute some helpful information to the
development of Rosegarden. Not really knowing the actual sequencing
routines (binary, coding, etc.) myself, there are others who do... As I
said, this does assume this is indeed, a useful proposition... if not,
you might (at least for the time being) be correct... simply adds over
head to the space requirements pointlessly for a user. But even then, I
might find out some useful information... or then again...
or...?

(the concept of open source, to me is really an exiting & interesting
one, but seems to require a more active participant than just putting
your money down, & kicking back & consuming the product one buys, no?
Relevant information then, takes on a somewhat different spin, it is
also, finding the opportunity to participate meaningfully, in some way).

Henry

Al Thompson wrote:

> Henry W. Peters wrote:
>
>> Thanks so much Julie... aside from the usual few missing -dev files,
>> the installer found qt library directories on it's own. Alas,in the rush
>> to find some files, I forgot to enable the debug option... which I
>> wanted to do... but as Micheal says he will be releasing another alpha
>>
>>
>
> Just out of curiosity, why do you want the -debug option? I suspect it
> adds some overhead, but I don't know, and I never compile with it enabled.
>
>
>

Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-11-30T21:35:27Z

Henry W. Peters wrote:
> Thanks so much Julie... aside from the usual few missing -dev files,
> the installer found qt library directories on it's own. Alas,in the rush
> to find some files, I forgot to enable the debug option... which I
> wanted to do... but as Micheal says he will be releasing another alpha
>

Just out of curiosity, why do you want the -debug option? I suspect it
adds some overhead, but I don't know, and I never compile with it enabled.

--

Check out the website I've been cobbling together. It will never be done, but it's a start:
http://lateralforce.no-ip.org

My blog, with commentary on a variety of things, including audio, mixing, equipment, etc, is at:
http://audioandmore.wordpress.com

Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch;
und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.'
- [Friedrich Nietzsche]

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-11-30T19:00:13Z

On Monday 30 November 2009, Henry W. Peters wrote:

> Program looks & feels good, so far! The midi device setup seemed to lack
> some quirkiness that 1.73 had.

Thank Emanuel Rumpf for ripping out the old device manager and writing a
completely new one from scratch. That along with a lot of work mostly Chris
Cannam has done to reform why and when we create devices has made for truly
dramatic improvements in this area.

> P.s., is it possible to enable the debug option after the install? &
> where then would the debug log (?) be found, or for that mater, how does
> one run this feature?

No, it's something that has to be set before you compile, and if you change
it, you have to do a clean build.

I rarely build without debugging enabled, so I forget what it turns off when
you do a release build. One of the main things is that a release build is
stripped of debugging symbols. This makes it impossible to produce useful
stack traces to report crashes, but it makes for a MUCH smaller binary (13 MB
vs. 120 MB, approximately.) I think some of the debug stream information is
also cut out of release builds.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-11-30T18:40:28Z

Thanks so much Julie... aside from the usual few missing -dev files,
the installer found qt library directories on it's own. Alas,in the rush
to find some files, I forgot to enable the debug option... which I
wanted to do... but as Micheal says he will be releasing another alpha
soon, perhaps I'll do a make uninstall (I think I can do this, no? I did
an make install... because that's what I'm more familiar with... but
good to know your way too).

Program looks & feels good, so far! The midi device setup seemed to lack
some quirkiness that 1.73 had. My audio card on Debian Lenny 5.03 is
not properly configured with my kernel (I may even go to another distro,
not sure yet), so I can't work that part, as of yet.

Thanks much for everyone's work here & assistance.

Henry
P.s., is it possible to enable the debug option after the install? &
where then would the debug log (?) be found, or for that mater, how does
one run this feature?

P.p.s., the wiki was very helpful for the dependencies, & well done, I
had actually found it just before you pointed it out (I think it is
linked on the RG homepage).

Julie S wrote:

> Hello Henry,
>
> I am on ubuntu 9.04. So your setup may vary.
>
> my QT4 directory is in /usr/lib
>
> I believe the qt4 directory is the one it is looking for.
>
> the prefix is just where ever your local install will end up along with a few data files.
>
> But this is my sequence of installation from source.
>
> sh ./bootstrap.sh
> ./configure
> make
>
> I don't use either the QT4 directive or the prefix. Note also that I do NOT do:
>
> make install
>
> that is because with RG Thorn you can
>
> ./rosegarden
>
> >From the directory you compiled the source code.
>
> This is very handy in a few ways:
> 1. RG 1.7.3, if installed is unaffected.
>
> 2. When you recompile RG Thorn--you will--it wasn't installed in the first place so you just run it from the install directory again.
>
> 3. If you don't like THron, just delete the install directory and move on.
>
> ...
>
> But this works easily for me because I already have all of the dependencies in place.
>
> http://rosegardenmusic.com/wiki/frequently_asked_questions
>
> under "What packages do I need to build this?" is a good starting list of dependencies.
>
> The README in the src code has a very similiar looking list as well.
>
> Sincerely,
> Julie S.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> On Monday 30 November 2009, Julie S wrote:
>
>
>> > http://rosegardenmusic.com/wiki/frequently_asked_questions
>>
> That's awesome. I recognize my own voice in that, but I had COMPLETELY
> forgotten it existed. That's a good place to jot down all the stuff I
> was just aiming to jot down.
> -- D. Michael McIntyre
>

Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-11-30T17:03:22Z

On Monday 30 November 2009, Julie S wrote:

> http://rosegardenmusic.com/wiki/frequently_asked_questions

That's awesome. I recognize my own voice in that, but I had COMPLETELY
forgotten it existed.

That's a good place to jot down all the stuff I was just aiming to jot down.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: Rosegarden 10.02-ALPHA released

2009-11-30T16:58:41Z

On Monday 30 November 2009, Julie S wrote:

> > Can you give us some idea when there will be versions that
> > can be run
> > in parallel?
>
> You can run RG Thorn safely with Classic as long as you do NOT do:
>
> make install

Indeed. The idea I had for renaming the binaries to avoid conflicts went over
like a lead balloon with package maintainers anyway, and I need to go rip all
of that out.

I'll put together a wiki page explaining all of this, and make some suitable
noise about it at that time.

I'm looking to release another alpha quite soon. I've fixed a ton of problems
since the last one. I've just been too busy fixing problems to take time out
and roll out another release.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: Rosegarden 10.02-ALPHA released

2009-11-30T16:26:05Z

Hello Will,

You wrote:
> Can you give us some idea when there will be versions that
> can be run
> in parallel?

You can run RG Thorn safely with Classic as long as you do NOT do:

make install

as I just wrote in the last post to Henry.

RG Thorn will safely run from the directory you compiled from using:

./rosegarden

so just follow the install process up to the "make install" command and you will be good.

Sincerely,
Julie S.

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-11-30T16:20:57Z

Hello Henry,

I am on ubuntu 9.04. So your setup may vary.

my QT4 directory is in /usr/lib

I believe the qt4 directory is the one it is looking for.

the prefix is just where ever your local install will end up along with a few data files.

But this is my sequence of installation from source.

sh ./bootstrap.sh
./configure
make

I don't use either the QT4 directive or the prefix. Note also that I do NOT do:

make install

that is because with RG Thorn you can

./rosegarden

>From the directory you compiled the source code.

This is very handy in a few ways:
1. RG 1.7.3, if installed is unaffected.

2. When you recompile RG Thorn--you will--it wasn't installed in the first place so you just run it from the install directory again.

3. If you don't like THron, just delete the install directory and move on.

...

But this works easily for me because I already have all of the dependencies in place.

http://rosegardenmusic.com/wiki/frequently_asked_questions

under "What packages do I need to build this?" is a good starting list of dependencies.

The README in the src code has a very similiar looking list as well.

Sincerely,
Julie S.

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Re: Rosegarden 10.02-ALPHA released

2009-11-30T14:50:11Z

On Sat, 14 Nov 2009 03:54:59 -0500
"D. Michael McIntyre" <michael.mcintyre@...> wrote:

> DO NOT TRY THIS ON A PRODUCTION SYSTEM! YOU WERE WARNED!
>
> The next release (probably a second alpha) will have an install target that
> renames the binary to rosegarden-$VERSION so it will be possible to stack up a
> whole pile of them in /usr/bin, but I just thought of that. The new
> Rosegarden will quite happily coexist with an installation of "Classic" and
> any number of builds of itself, but that won't work properly until I adjust
> the install target. This release WILL overwrite /usr/bin/rosegarden!

Can you give us some idea when there will be versions that can be run
in parallel? I would very much like to help out with testing and bug
hunting, but I simply cannot risk the only machine that I can
effectively use for music!

--
Will J Godfrey
http://www.musically.me.uk
Say you have a poem and I have a tune.
Exchange them and we can both have a poem, a tune, and a song.

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Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-11-30T13:46:19Z

Hi Again Julie,

Glad to give alpha a try... hopefully the debug option works ok (for
me), & it apparently builds with "./configure." I am not sure of two
things as referenced in the below snippet from the accompanying read-me...

1.) What is the proper (correct) "[PREFIX]," I would assume it is a path
name such as "/usr/local" (?)?

2.) How do I find the path name for my "[QTDIR]"?

It appears there is a configure script, but if not, there are directions
below, & it seems clear what to do.

Thanks again for the help.

Henry

If the directory where you found this README file does not already contain a
configure script, you must generate one by running:

sh ./bootstrap.sh

Once you have a configure script, ensure that all of your build dependencies
have been installed, and then run:

./configure [ --prefix=[PREFIX] QTDIR=[QTDIR] [--enable-debug] ]
make
make install

New starting with 09.10, most of the application data files are bundled
in the
rosegarden binary. The install process will copy

rosegarden
rosegarden-lilypondview
rosegarden-audiofile-importer
rosegarden-project-package

to [PREFIX]/bin and will copy a limited number of data files to
[PREFIX]/share/rosegarden

You may need to specify [QTDIR] on the configure line, so that the build can
find the Qt4 libraries.

The optional [--enable-debug] will build Rosegarden so that it is useful for
debugging, which can greatly improve our ability to find and correct bugs by
allowing Rosegarden to produce useful stack traces when it crashes.
WARNING!
Enabling this option results in an approximately 300 MB rosegarden binary!

Julie S wrote:

> Dear Henry,
>
> You wrote:
>
>> missing some kde dependencies? In any case, advice as to
>> why the cmake
>> stops here would be appeciated) :
>>
>>
>>> :~/Documents/Soundz/rosegarden-1.7.3$ cmake
>>> cmake version 2.6-patch 4
>>> Usage
>>>
>
> from this snippet you just typed "cmake"
>
> try "cmake ."
>
> a friendlier version is "ccmake"
>
> Good luck.
>
> Sincerely,
> Julie S.
>
> PS -- since you are compiling from source, might be easier to pull the Thorn-Alpha or trunk and try that. It compiles much easier than 1.7.3
>
>
>
>

Re: Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-11-30T13:15:14Z

Dear Henry,

You wrote:
> missing some kde dependencies? In any case, advice as to
> why the cmake
> stops here would be appeciated) :
>
> > :~/Documents/Soundz/rosegarden-1.7.3$ cmake
> > cmake version 2.6-patch 4
> > Usage

from this snippet you just typed "cmake"

try "cmake ."

a friendlier version is "ccmake"

Good luck.

Sincerely,
Julie S.

PS -- since you are compiling from source, might be easier to pull the Thorn-Alpha or trunk and try that. It compiles much easier than 1.7.3

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Slinking toward Lenny (Debian)

2009-11-30T12:50:04Z

Not sure how I did it, but I got the RG v.1.7.3 installed in Ubuntu 9.04
(?), now, trying my hand at Debian Lenny... reinstalling RG (perhaps
there were all the dependencies there because of previous versions of
RG?) & here's what I get from doing a 'cmake' (not sure, but maybe
missing some kde dependencies? In any case, advice as to why the cmake
stops here would be appeciated) :

> :~/Documents/Soundz/rosegarden-1.7.3$ cmake
> cmake version 2.6-patch 4
> Usage
>
> cmake [options] <path-to-source>
> cmake [options] <path-to-existing-build>
>
> Options
> -C <initial-cache> = Pre-load a script to populate the cache.
> -D <var>:<type>=<value> = Create a cmake cache entry.
> -U <globbing_expr> = Remove matching entries from CMake cache.
> -G <generator-name> = Specify a makefile generator.
> -Wno-dev = Suppress developer warnings.
> -Wdev = Enable developer warnings.
> -E = CMake command mode.
> -i = Run in wizard mode.
> -L[A][H] = List non-advanced cached variables.
> -N = View mode only.
> -P <file> = Process script mode.
> --graphviz=[file] = Generate graphviz of dependencies.
> --system-information [file] = Dump information about this system.
> --debug-trycompile = Do not delete the try compile
> directories..
> --debug-output = Put cmake in a debug mode.
> --trace = Put cmake in trace mode.
> --help-command cmd [file] = Print help for a single command and exit.
> --help-command-list [file] = List available listfile commands and exit.
> --help-commands [file] = Print help for all commands and exit.
> --help-compatcommands [file]= Print help for compatibility commands.
> --help-module module [file] = Print help for a single module and exit.
> --help-module-list [file] = List available modules and exit.
> --help-modules [file] = Print help for all modules and exit.
> --help-custom-modules [file]= Print help for all custom modules and
> exit.
> --help-policy cmp [file] = Print help for a single policy and exit.
> --help-policies [file] = Print help for all policies and exit.
> --help-property prop [file] = Print help for a single property and exit.
> --help-property-list [file] = List available properties and exit.
> --help-properties [file] = Print help for all properties and exit.
> --help-variable var [file] = Print help for a single variable and exit.
> --help-variable-list [file] = List documented variables and exit.
> --help-variables [file] = Print help for all variables and exit.
> --copyright [file] = Print the CMake copyright and exit.
> --help = Print usage information and exit.
> --help-full [file] = Print full help and exit.
> --help-html [file] = Print full help in HTML format.
> --help-man [file] = Print full help as a UNIX man page and
> exit.
> --version [file] = Show program name/version banner and exit.
>
> Generators
>
> The following generators are available on this platform:
> Unix Makefiles = Generates standard UNIX makefiles.
> CodeBlocks - Unix Makefiles = Generates CodeBlocks project files.
> Eclipse CDT4 - Unix Makefiles
> = Generates Eclipse CDT 4.0 project files.
> KDevelop3 = Generates KDevelop 3 project files.
> KDevelop3 - Unix Makefiles = Generates KDevelop 3 project files.
>

?

Henry

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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-30T01:44:14Z

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Al Thompson <biggles58@...> wrote:
> As an aside - have you been following the CCRMA mail list? It seems
> that there is an alternate version of jack (jack2) which may be
> replacing the current jack (jack1) in future releases of Fedora.

I don't read the CCRMA list, but jack2 is what used to be known as
jackdmp and I have used that in the past with generally good results.
(In fact jackdmp was used by default in v2 of our Studio to Go distro
a few years ago.) It's directly compatible with jack1 and I'd imagine
most users would see no particular difference, except for details like
not causing audio dropouts when a new client is added or removed, and
more efficient processing in some multi-core scenarios.

Chris

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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T19:53:19Z

D. Michael McIntyre wrote:
> I could talk about all of this at great length. Trying to enforce audio path
> discipline is not as simple as it looks on the surface. I'm trying to come up
> with a workable compromise, juggling the factors of legacy compatibility, user
> inconvenience, and code complexity that could lead to stupid bugs manifesting
> at the worst time.
>

Just FYI - Sonar forces you to name a project before doing anything with
it. On top of that, there is an option in 'Preferences" called
something like "use per-project folders," which, if selected, causes
Sonar to create a folder (directory in real terms) with the name you
give the project. Under THAT folder is one called "Audio," where all
audio files associated with that project are stored.

I'm not saying that is the best way to do it, but it does work well, and
keeps all of your audio files from being jumbled together in one
directory. This may have the added benefit of speeding seek times in
audio directories, since the number of files would be limited to only
those for each project, and not include everything you've ever done in
RG. (grin)

As an aside - have you been following the CCRMA mail list? It seems
that there is an alternate version of jack (jack2) which may be
replacing the current jack (jack1) in future releases of Fedora.

--

Check out the website I've been cobbling together. It will never be done, but it's a start:
http://lateralforce.no-ip.org

My blog, with commentary on a variety of things, including audio, mixing, equipment, etc, is at:
http://audioandmore.wordpress.com

Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch;
und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.'
- [Friedrich Nietzsche]

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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T15:54:34Z

On Sunday 29 November 2009, Julie S wrote:

> BTW---Michael-- Is the title the file name for the composition of the title
> that shows when you view the properties of the composition?
>
> I was a bit confused by the use of title vs. composition file name.

It isn't, actually, although for some reason I was thinking it was. The name
"title" came from the code. It's getTitle() or something to that effect, not
getFileName() or similar.

Hrm.

A look, a think, a beard scratch. About the only thing to do is change "name"
and "title" in that dialog to "filename" and leave it at that.

I've had five votes from various corners for just leaving well enough alone on
the naming conventions as last committed, so I'm going with that. (It's
actually a very large response to something like this, and this is a question
that needs to get settled promptly and decisively, without hand wringing.)

BTW, I used the _ between date and time to show a separation between them,
since the date elements were offset by -, and because even though they're
perfectly legal and all our code is supposed to cope with them, I really hate
spaces in Unix filenames. I like having the []-[] in two separate brackets
because both fields are of variable width, and it makes it easier on my eyes
to parse a list of these things for the field I'm looking for.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T15:15:10Z

Apologies, did not quite get an accurate drift of the discussion earlier.

Most digital audio recording/editing programs I have used, as I recall,
basically put the audio files with numbers for id's (even if saved with
a title) in a folder called "Audio." & how the hell do you tell one
"Audio" folder from another? :) Even if the directory could have some
kind of preliminary, or generic title... might be helpful... & I think
this is more or less the heart of the question (?), feel free to correct
if this is not correct.

I do agree with Micheal, naming to start out with might be the best
discipline... (but not always an opportune situation), but especially
resuming a previous project in some way, & cleaning house or moving
files (Julie), can indeed make this apparent lack of association, an
unholy mess!

& just for my better understanding, does not such unsaved recording get
sent to a temporary location? & if so, as I think it has been the case
with other programs, I have always felt this to be some important
incentive to save... as electricity is needed, but not always available,
etc...

I think, how ever the specifics of *this problem* get resolved (i.e.,
the order of "untitled," date, etc.), keeping associated files together
is paramount (for any sustainable sanity, at any rate) to my way of
looking at it.

Regards,

Henry

Julie S wrote:

> Dear Michael,
>
> Thanks for answering that.
>
> ~/rosegarden it is.
>
> No, I'm not advocating a change.
>
> Keep what we have and move on.
>
> I hate it when an application forces me before I even start to pick a project directory and a project name.
>
> Though I agree this is probably for my own benefit and helps the app know what to do.
>
> I've had some pretty horrible experiences with having to think of all of this stuff as a newbie for many software packages---not just audio. Then kicking myself after I got proficient for having chosen such a dumb method the first time I opened the application.
>
> An old AutoDesk copy of Civil Survey that I used comes to mind. Trying to move a project from one directory structure to another was a nightmare, and the software forced you to decide upon first opening how to set things up. Then you were stuck with it for every project.
>
> So the chances of doing it right when someone first opens RG is about zero.
>
> Besides if people want them al together they can roll it up with that thing you and ilan have worked so hard on...the packager. People can just open up all of their existing projects, roll them up as package files, do what they want to the ~/rosegarden audio files, then unroll the packages after the dust settles.
>
> Yeah, its some work, but that way they can have everything in one place and then clean out ~/rosegarden's audio files.
>
> We definitely could put them in a project folder along with the .rg file if we knew ahead of time where the files was going to be saved, but we don't. And the solution we have works and it works better now than it did before.
>
> I vote you keep it like it is and move on. It's too late in my book for Thorn to decide to force project / file name creation.
>
> We can hash this out another time. I can think of several different, yet elegant ways to do this. But I certainly don't think now is the time to hammer this out.
>
> You did a fine job of juggling all the parts and adding to what we have with minimal disturbance them.
>
> Sincerely,
> Julie S.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T12:00:12Z

Dear Michael,

Thanks for answering that.

~/rosegarden it is.

No, I'm not advocating a change.

Keep what we have and move on.

I hate it when an application forces me before I even start to pick a project directory and a project name.

Though I agree this is probably for my own benefit and helps the app know what to do.

I've had some pretty horrible experiences with having to think of all of this stuff as a newbie for many software packages---not just audio. Then kicking myself after I got proficient for having chosen such a dumb method the first time I opened the application.

An old AutoDesk copy of Civil Survey that I used comes to mind. Trying to move a project from one directory structure to another was a nightmare, and the software forced you to decide upon first opening how to set things up. Then you were stuck with it for every project.

So the chances of doing it right when someone first opens RG is about zero.

Besides if people want them al together they can roll it up with that thing you and ilan have worked so hard on...the packager. People can just open up all of their existing projects, roll them up as package files, do what they want to the ~/rosegarden audio files, then unroll the packages after the dust settles.

Yeah, its some work, but that way they can have everything in one place and then clean out ~/rosegarden's audio files.

We definitely could put them in a project folder along with the .rg file if we knew ahead of time where the files was going to be saved, but we don't. And the solution we have works and it works better now than it did before.

I vote you keep it like it is and move on. It's too late in my book for Thorn to decide to force project / file name creation.

We can hash this out another time. I can think of several different, yet elegant ways to do this. But I certainly don't think now is the time to hammer this out.

You did a fine job of juggling all the parts and adding to what we have with minimal disturbance them.

Sincerely,
Julie S.

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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T11:32:09Z

On Sunday 29 November 2009, Julie S wrote:

> Michael will have to explain where the actual audio files are stored. I
> don't recall at the moment the current state of this--Michael has done
> much in Thorn to make all of this more sane. He would know.

Well, that's an interesting line of thought. Now that we're strongly
encouraging you to save your file as something before you record, we could
create a new audio path automatically, and not save everything to ~/rosegarden
by default.

I hadn't planned to take this that far, to be honest. I think having the
contents of ~/rosegarden be readily identifiable is probably enough of an
improvement that it isn't necessary to take it any further than that.

I could talk about all of this at great length. Trying to enforce audio path
discipline is not as simple as it looks on the surface. I'm trying to come up
with a workable compromise, juggling the factors of legacy compatibility, user
inconvenience, and code complexity that could lead to stupid bugs manifesting
at the worst time.
--
D. Michael McIntyre

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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T10:23:46Z

Dear Henry,

Considering your last message and our previous dialog. I don't see any reason why the new naming convention will get in your way.

Your compositions--the .rg file--- can be whatever you like it to be. So just name it that and you are set.

Michael will have to explain where the actual audio files are stored. I don't recall at the moment the current state of this--Michael has done much in Thorn to make all of this more sane. He would know.

So do as you like create your monthly folder. Then a daily folder if you like, then save your .rg file with whatever file name you like.

The files we are talking about are Audio segments that are recorded during an RG session. These are related but distinct from the actual .rg file. The .rg file just points to the files on the hard drive and does not actually have them embedded in them...though we have options for doing just that as well.

I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Julie S.

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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T08:32:13Z

Hi Julie, & All,

Well, I might make a folder called "RG.Nov.09" (if RG will make a
default save folder, I would set it at that), I would try to make a new
folder for every month I did activities in that program, & kept in a
folder called (say) "Music.09" , then I usually call a file;
"pn.11.29.09." The "pn" is cause I would be working from my keyboard. &
by the way, I some times work on different compositions with in one
project window, if I am just doing a midi project.

If I am doing an audio production (as to differentiate between midi, &
or midi/audio, & so far, I have done no audio in Rosegarden), I usually
am more intentional about this... in terms of nomenclature, so the
project is more the prime focus (i.e., not necessarily A single title, &
then versions might become more important (next)... But this is rough
generalization... version can become very important too (& possibly,
other factors).

Point is, anticipating & thinking like a musician is essential to the
constructive potential of a computer tool for making music/s. Who the
heck else is it for, anyway (sincere question here)?? A tall order...
but my focus is on music possibilities. Which is why we need to learn
more, widen our scope of appreciation/s of differing music/sound
productions... not to compromise a production tool to death, but to
maximize keeping the tool in the background... of these possible
possibilities. Plus, folks will come along (hopefully) & dream up &
realize things not yet fully present, then maybe use Rosegarden in
heretofore unexpected ways... would that be wrong? (I think I digress)

Thanks for your comments... & considerate consideration/s.

Henry

Julie S wrote:

> Hello Henry,
>
> You wrote:
>
>> Personally speaking (yikes, is there any other way?), if
>> there were a
>> generic work title, I would prefer it to go *first* by
>> date... because,
>> if I decide to title... this usually (but not always) comes
>> later, for
>> me. It would not be the end of the world, were it
>> otherwise.
>>
>
> Well, if you have been using RG to do recording they historically, you have been receiving things like this:
> RG-AUDIO-0080.wav
> RG-AUDIO-0081.wav
>
> ...which has no date and no alias to reference the audio.
>
> So first off, the current solution is a vast improvement, and second any of the competing variations we have mentioned are big improvements as well.
>
> So, let's stick to what is at hand. I appreciate wanting to order things by date. That is fine. You can name your RG file with a date to do that.
>
> How have you been accomplishing the date ordered file keeping using RG in the past?
>
> I'm not shooting you down, I'm just trying to get at how you were doing this before in RG and how this change will affect your workflow.
>
> So if there is a issue that we are unaware of that this changes in some meaningful way that you believe outweighs the old (see above) versus the new ([title]-[alias]-date.wav), then please let us know.
>
> The warning dialog the Michael put in--though annoying--is probably justified--but still annoying. It does not force you to change the the title, just suggests that you should.
>
> BTW---Michael-- Is the title the file name for the composition of the title that shows when you view the properties of the composition?
>
> I was a bit confused by the use of title vs. composition file name.
>
> Sincerely,
> Julie S.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Learning to read music

2009-11-29T07:34:25Z

Dear Phil, all,

>>> There is a quite comprehensive list of musical software at
>>>
This may seem a somewhat 'traditionalist' approach but I think that for
learning to read music (some ) good theory books and methods are the
best, depending on what you're after. In fact most software (be it more
music-making-oriented like rosegarden or more typesetting like
MuseScore) give for granted that you do know something about music.
I think that's actually, good :)
Of course now-a-days you can also find lots of 'e-books' and other
resources directly on line.

Personally I live in Italy and did solfege as part of my musical
training http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solfeggio) It seems a boring and
old-fashioned method, but imho it really gives you solid score reading
abilities (but it /does /imply you already know your way about
score-reading and has to be kept in exercise like many musical skills).

One book that I'd like to mention although quite old (1940s) is
'Elementary Training for Musicians' by Paul Hindemith... An interesting
exercise with Rosegarden could be to enter the exercises which require
accompaniment (in the book thought as teacher + student) into the score
editor :)

Of course also training for an instrument helps in getting score-reading
skills (more specific to that particular instrument). There are
thousands of methods around.

Something also useful is to get the score of some piece and try to
follow it on the score while listening... first simple 1-instrument
pieces up to full-orchestra scores (similarly to learning to read with
audio-books)
>> I definitely did find it useful to
>> throw the odd exercise into Rosegarden to hear how the rhythm was supposed to
>> come out, etc. I've always had a lot more trouble with rhythm than pitch.
>>
When I was studying some guitar pieces for my exams I put some in the
sequencer and pushed the tempo up trying to play together. Looping bars
which were a little insecure, it helped me get a little self discipline
which the metronome alone wasn't enough for.

So, here software can really help you, for example take the book
exercises and put it in RG, then slow down, dissect them, put the
metronome, change them etc. You just have to be creative with software I
guess.. and Rosegarden does have the potential for that too :)

Kind regards,
Lorenzo

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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T06:59:57Z

Hello Henry,

You wrote:
> Personally speaking (yikes, is there any other way?), if
> there were a
> generic work title, I would prefer it to go *first* by
> date... because,
> if I decide to title... this usually (but not always) comes
> later, for
> me. It would not be the end of the world, were it
> otherwise.

Well, if you have been using RG to do recording they historically, you have been receiving things like this:
RG-AUDIO-0080.wav
RG-AUDIO-0081.wav

...which has no date and no alias to reference the audio.

So first off, the current solution is a vast improvement, and second any of the competing variations we have mentioned are big improvements as well.

So, let's stick to what is at hand. I appreciate wanting to order things by date. That is fine. You can name your RG file with a date to do that.

How have you been accomplishing the date ordered file keeping using RG in the past?

I'm not shooting you down, I'm just trying to get at how you were doing this before in RG and how this change will affect your workflow.

So if there is a issue that we are unaware of that this changes in some meaningful way that you believe outweighs the old (see above) versus the new ([title]-[alias]-date.wav), then please let us know.

The warning dialog the Michael put in--though annoying--is probably justified--but still annoying. It does not force you to change the the title, just suggests that you should.

BTW---Michael-- Is the title the file name for the composition of the title that shows when you view the properties of the composition?

I was a bit confused by the use of title vs. composition file name.

Sincerely,
Julie S.

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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T06:18:06Z

I have been (not very successfully) trying to store my various musics by
date... that is to say, in a folder (with the name of program used to so
produce) with the date of the month & year... so it gives me some
historical record... of my work flow. Some things I simply date, with
perhaps an instrument, or suggestion of instrumentation, orchestration,
etc., some have a definite title... This then, is sometimes a clue to
its' possible importance, either to do more work on (or come back to),
or a certain (amount of) finality (no pun intended).

Personally speaking (yikes, is there any other way?), if there were a
generic work title, I would prefer it to go *first* by date... because,
if I decide to title... this usually (but not always) comes later, for
me. It would not be the end of the world, were it otherwise.

One vote, I know.

Thanks for discussion.

Regards,
Henry

Julie S wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Concerning audio file names:
>
> I'm pretty content with Michael's current setup.
>
> rg-[title]-[alias]-date.wav
>
> I have to admit the ER's version:
>
>> rg---2009-11-29---00-47-24-2---[ flute - My nice Alias
>> ].wav
>>
>
> handles the name alias nicely, it add spaces to the file name that I think Michael was trying to avoid.
>
> I'm also personally a fan of the '-' as opposed to the '_' and Michaels mixes them in ways my eyes find irritating such as:
>
> rg-[Testing]-[not_specified]-2009-11-29_02.00.58-2.wav
>
> but I see several reasons why this is better than naming them all '-' symbols that I prefer...so leave it. My eyes will adjust.
>
> But I think compactness wins every time in this situation. ER's date method though more easily decoded takes up many more characters. Remember that many times long names get truncated depending on how they are displayed and which program displayed it.
>
> I take it the rg- prefix is there for sorting and legacy reasons as well. So leave it I guess there is some value to having it at the head and it doesn't take up to many characters.
>
> I think the most compact and useful name is as Michael wrote it. I thought of:
>
> rg-[My_title-Violin_II]-2009-11-29_02.00.58-2.wav
>
> This only saves two characters and may be possibly harder to regrex than Michaels which uses the rarely used by humans '[' and ']' in the file name.
>
> ...
>
> So, I just vote to keep it the way Michael has it.
>
> Sincerely,
> Julie S.
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T06:10:34Z

Emanuel Rumpf wrote:

> 2009/11/29 D. Michael McIntyre <michael.mcintyre@...>:
>
>> rg-[SM-57_in_lower_back_corner]-2009-11-28_22.49.59-4.wav
>>
> That is helpful.
> Maybe, appending the alias as here:
>
> rg-2009-11-28_22.49.59-4-[SM-57_in_lower_back_corner].wav
>
> would be preferable, since it allowed to easily sort
> by time in a filebrowser.
>

Except, some windows, such as the audio file manager, only show the
first several characters of the filename, and you'd be back to wondering
which "rg-2009-11-28_22" was the one you were looking for.

You could always use "ls -t".

--

Check out the website I've been cobbling together. It will never be done, but it's a start:
http://lateralforce.no-ip.org

My blog, with commentary on a variety of things, including audio, mixing, equipment, etc, is at:
http://audioandmore.wordpress.com

Staat heißt das kälteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt lügt es auch;
und diese Lüge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.'
- [Friedrich Nietzsche]

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Re: Audio file names

2009-11-29T03:21:18Z

On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 1:36 AM, D. Michael McIntyre
<michael.mcintyre@...> wrote:
> 20:04:28 would look better to me, but colons don't seem to be safe to use in filenames

Just a side note, colons are not legal at all in filenames on Windows
and, while we have no special interest in Windows at the moment, it's
probably unwise to use Windows-incompatible filenames without good
reason.

The filename arrangement you ended up with looks fine to me. (If you
want to sort by date, can't you just get the browser to sort by the
file's last modification date?)

Chris

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