SOT: I need a new IDE.

[Michael Reick]

I've been using Dreamweaver for the last couple iterations (7 through CS4) and I'm done.  Can't stand it anymore.  I'm a coder, not a drag/drop, re-write horrible code that the wizards generate.

Except it's site system makes it really easy to publish templates between servers (I have a development, a staging, and a "live" server and I have to FTP to the live server).

I need a new IDE that will at least give me that ability. The ability to integrate with a versioning, check in/out system would be nice as well, but not required at this point, as I'm the only developer at the moment on the sites I manage.

CFEclipse?
Adobe's new CF Builder?
Others?

My google-fu is good enough (or should be) that if you tell me an IDE can do this, I can find a good primer site. Suggestions though, of course, would be welcome! :)

I've had just too much to get done recently to actually research/download/install/configure/test to see if an IDE will do this, so I figured I'd ask this list.

Thanks!

Michael Reick


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[Gerald Guido]

Both CFE and CFB can do what you want. Since they are based on Eclipse you
can add a number of SVN, CVS and GIT clients.

As for which one, that is a matter of preference and requirements. If you do
work with Flex I would lean toward CFB seeing that Flex and Adobe CF are
joined at the hip anymore. i.e. There is tight integration between Adobe CF
and Flex/Flash Builder. If you work with Railo or OBD I would go with CFE as
CFB works best when connected to Adobe CF Server.

But other than that both are fine editors. It is pretty much a dead heat in
my mind.

My $0.02 and worth every penny.

G!

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Michael Reick <michael@...> wrote:

>
> I've been using Dreamweaver for the last couple iterations (7 through CS4)
> and I'm done.  Can't stand it anymore.  I'm a coder, not a drag/drop,
> re-write horrible code that the wizards generate.
>
> Except it's site system makes it really easy to publish templates between
> servers (I have a development, a staging, and a "live" server and I have to
> FTP to the live server).
>
> I need a new IDE that will at least give me that ability. The ability to
> integrate with a versioning, check in/out system would be nice as well, but
> not required at this point, as I'm the only developer at the moment on the
> sites I manage.
>
> CFEclipse?
> Adobe's new CF Builder?
> Others?
>
> My google-fu is good enough (or should be) that if you tell me an IDE can
> do this, I can find a good primer site. Suggestions though, of course, would
> be welcome! :)
>
> I've had just too much to get done recently to actually
> research/download/install/configure/test to see if an IDE will do this, so I
> figured I'd ask this list.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Michael Reick
>
>
>

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[Azadi Saryev]

before you jump to a different ide (which is not saying it's a bad
idea), configure dw to work only in code view and see if that makes your
life easier.
it's a setting in dw configuration - just a list of file extensions to
open in code view only. add all extensions that are not there already.
dw is my main ide as well, and that's how i have it set up - i never
ever even see the design view screen in it. bloated it may be, but i do
like its deep integration with other cs applications that i use a lot.

Azadi Saryev
Sabai-dee.com
http://www.sabai-dee.com/


On 10/11/2009 01:48, Michael Reick wrote:

> I've been using Dreamweaver for the last couple iterations (7 through CS4) and I'm done.  Can't stand it anymore.  I'm a coder, not a drag/drop, re-write horrible code that the wizards generate.
>
> Except it's site system makes it really easy to publish templates between servers (I have a development, a staging, and a "live" server and I have to FTP to the live server).
>
> I need a new IDE that will at least give me that ability. The ability to integrate with a versioning, check in/out system would be nice as well, but not required at this point, as I'm the only developer at the moment on the sites I manage.
>
> CFEclipse?
> Adobe's new CF Builder?
> Others?
>
> My google-fu is good enough (or should be) that if you tell me an IDE can do this, I can find a good primer site. Suggestions though, of course, would be welcome! :)
>
> I've had just too much to get done recently to actually research/download/install/configure/test to see if an IDE will do this, so I figured I'd ask this list.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Michael Reick
>
>
>

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[Michael Reick]

Oh I've played with just about every setting I can to get it to behave the way I want it to, but I'm just fed up with having to beat my IDE into shape. I'm spending way too much of my time fighting with DW to do what I want rather than coding.

If I were more of a designer and less of a coder (I work with HTML designers who do that, I just make their templates work), I'd be much more interested in keeping DW.

Thanks,

Michael

>before you jump to a different ide (which is not saying it's a bad
>idea), configure dw to work only in code view and see if that makes your
>life easier.
>it's a setting in dw configuration - just a list of file extensions to
>open in code view only. add all extensions that are not there already.
>dw is my main ide as well, and that's how i have it set up - i never
>ever even see the design view screen in it. bloated it may be, but i do
>like its deep integration with other cs applications that i use a lot.
>
>Azadi Saryev
>Sabai-dee.com
>http://www.sabai-dee.com/
>
>
>On 10/11/2009 01:48, Michael Reick wrote:
>>

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[Justin Scott-4]

> I've been using Dreamweaver for the last couple iterations (7 through
> CS4) and I'm done.  Can't stand it anymore.  I'm a coder, not a
> drag/drop, re-write horrible code that the wizards generate.

I'm trying to figure out how to get HomeSite+ 5.5 to work with Windows 7
myself.  Seems like no matter what I try it will not open/save files over
FTP (whether through its internal FTP shell extension, an external shell app
like WebDrive, or a mapped folder in Windows that goes to FTP).  I know it's
no longer supported, but it does everything I need and does it very well.
I'm actually giving Dreamweaver CS4 a shot right now and am not liking it,
so I'm interested in what others have to say about IDEs also.

I tried the beta for ColdFusion builder, but its workflow doesn't seem to
like mine.  It wants you to define RDS servers and create projects before
you can even save files.  My environment has hundreds of sites distributed
over dozens of servers and I may not work on a site for months (or years)
between changes.  Essentially I need to be able to open a file via FTP, make
some changes, and save it again without defining a project and going through
all that jazz.  Dreamweaver does this without a lot of fuss, but it has a
lot of quirks that I'm not liking much so far.  CF Builder won't let me save
a file unless a project is defined, which I see as an epic fail on Adobe's
part (either because it can't, or because they make it so hard that a
seasoned developer like me can't manage to figure it out).  The "E" editor
(clone of TextMate on the Mac) handles the FTP well, but even with the
ColdFusion textmate bundles installed it doesn't provide the same sort of
tag and function insight that an editor made with ColdFusion in mind
(HomeSite+, Dreamweaver, CF Builder) can do.

In short, I'd really like to stick with HomeSite if I can find a way to make
integrated remote FTP work since it does everything I need and does it well.
I understand Adobe's reasoning for dropping support, but it would be nice if
they released the source code so those who want to keep it alive could do so
(though that would compete with a revenue stream, so I understand why they
would like it to pass silently into the night).

Anyway, maybe I'm missing something in CF Builder that would allow it to,
you know, save a file without a project, or maybe I'm missing something is
Dreamweaver's settings to change some of the things I dislike (line wrap
stuff, the way it docks the file selection window, saving files to its
built-in FTP site and actually have it to go the server instead of a local
folder, etc...).


-Justin Scott



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[WIll Swain]

One thing to add to this. At the moment, CFB is in public beta, and
therefore free. Once it is officially released it will cost of course,
whereas CFE doesn't.

Might make a difference to the OP.

Will

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Guido [mailto:gerald.guido@...]
Sent: 09 November 2009 18:26
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: SOT: I need a new IDE.


Both CFE and CFB can do what you want. Since they are based on Eclipse you
can add a number of SVN, CVS and GIT clients.

As for which one, that is a matter of preference and requirements. If you do
work with Flex I would lean toward CFB seeing that Flex and Adobe CF are
joined at the hip anymore. i.e. There is tight integration between Adobe CF
and Flex/Flash Builder. If you work with Railo or OBD I would go with CFE as
CFB works best when connected to Adobe CF Server.

But other than that both are fine editors. It is pretty much a dead heat in
my mind.

My $0.02 and worth every penny.

G!

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Michael Reick <michael@...> wrote:

>
> I've been using Dreamweaver for the last couple iterations (7 through
> CS4) and I'm done.  Can't stand it anymore.  I'm a coder, not a
> drag/drop, re-write horrible code that the wizards generate.
>
> Except it's site system makes it really easy to publish templates
> between servers (I have a development, a staging, and a "live" server
> and I have to FTP to the live server).
>
> I need a new IDE that will at least give me that ability. The ability
> to integrate with a versioning, check in/out system would be nice as
> well, but not required at this point, as I'm the only developer at the
> moment on the sites I manage.
>
> CFEclipse?
> Adobe's new CF Builder?
> Others?
>
> My google-fu is good enough (or should be) that if you tell me an IDE
> can do this, I can find a good primer site. Suggestions though, of
> course, would be welcome! :)
>
> I've had just too much to get done recently to actually
> research/download/install/configure/test to see if an IDE will do
> this, so I figured I'd ask this list.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Michael Reick
>
>
>

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[Dominic Watson]

Hi Justin. I use Eclipse, and whether you use CFBuilder or CFEclipse, you
can indeed work directly over ftp. However, it's never off the shelf with
Eclipse and you need the wonderful Aptana plugin for decent FTP (I believe
that CFBuilder is using Aptana for ftp and comes with it built in...
right?).

Once you have Aptana and CFEclipse, google "Aptana CFEclipse FTP". The
guides will probably tell you about creating a Sync project but this is
unnecessary (useful if you want local projects though). You can use Aptana's
File view to browse your ftp sites directly (Window -> Show view -> Other...
-> Aptana standard views -> File). In fact, this probably works with CF
Builder if I'm right about it coming with Aptana.

Once you're on top of the Eclipse way of doing things, it makes a whole heap
of sense; there are niggles and the road isn't always smooth, but the
breadth of what you can plug in to it makes it perfect for me.

HTH

Dominic

2009/11/9 Justin Scott <jscott-lists@...>

>
> > I've been using Dreamweaver for the last couple iterations (7 through
> > CS4) and I'm done.  Can't stand it anymore.  I'm a coder, not a
> > drag/drop, re-write horrible code that the wizards generate.
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to get HomeSite+ 5.5 to work with Windows 7
> myself.  Seems like no matter what I try it will not open/save files over
> FTP (whether through its internal FTP shell extension, an external shell
> app
> like WebDrive, or a mapped folder in Windows that goes to FTP).  I know
> it's
> no longer supported, but it does everything I need and does it very well.
> I'm actually giving Dreamweaver CS4 a shot right now and am not liking it,
> so I'm interested in what others have to say about IDEs also.
>
> I tried the beta for ColdFusion builder, but its workflow doesn't seem to
> like mine.  It wants you to define RDS servers and create projects before
> you can even save files.  My environment has hundreds of sites distributed
> over dozens of servers and I may not work on a site for months (or years)
> between changes.  Essentially I need to be able to open a file via FTP,
> make
> some changes, and save it again without defining a project and going
> through
> all that jazz.  Dreamweaver does this without a lot of fuss, but it has a
> lot of quirks that I'm not liking much so far.  CF Builder won't let me
> save
> a file unless a project is defined, which I see as an epic fail on Adobe's
> part (either because it can't, or because they make it so hard that a
> seasoned developer like me can't manage to figure it out).  The "E" editor
> (clone of TextMate on the Mac) handles the FTP well, but even with the
> ColdFusion textmate bundles installed it doesn't provide the same sort of
> tag and function insight that an editor made with ColdFusion in mind
> (HomeSite+, Dreamweaver, CF Builder) can do.
>
> In short, I'd really like to stick with HomeSite if I can find a way to
> make
> integrated remote FTP work since it does everything I need and does it
> well.
> I understand Adobe's reasoning for dropping support, but it would be nice
> if
> they released the source code so those who want to keep it alive could do
> so
> (though that would compete with a revenue stream, so I understand why they
> would like it to pass silently into the night).
>
> Anyway, maybe I'm missing something in CF Builder that would allow it to,
> you know, save a file without a project, or maybe I'm missing something is
> Dreamweaver's settings to change some of the things I dislike (line wrap
> stuff, the way it docks the file selection window, saving files to its
> built-in FTP site and actually have it to go the server instead of a local
> folder, etc...).
>
>
> -Justin Scott
>
>
>
>

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[Jason Fisher-3]

@Justin,

I had been giving CFB a decent run for its money, but still lovin'
HomeSite+ for all the reasons you list.  For me, the move to Windows 7
64-bit at home means that I cannot even install HS, let alone use it, so
I've been having to give it a full focus effort.  So far, I don't mind
setting up the workarea of CFB with most of my projects, but the fact that
I can't simply open / save a file is definitely a problem, and even worse
is that the more projects I add to the workarea, the slower the load
becomes.  That's definitely an issue when I really just want to load to
make one 2 minute fix ... waiting 10 minutes to start that fix is
ridiculous.

 



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[Casey Dougall-2]

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Jason Fisher <jason@...> wrote:

>
> @Justin,
>
> I had been giving CFB a decent run for its money, but still lovin'
> HomeSite+ for all the reasons you list.  For me, the move to Windows 7
> 64-bit at home means that I cannot even install HS, let alone use it, so
> I've been having to give it a full focus effort.



> So far, I don't mind
> setting up the workarea of CFB with most of my projects, but the fact that
> I can't simply open / save a file is definitely a problem,


Can't you do that directly through the FTP directory under your project. you
should have one ftp setup per project or at least those projects on
different domains / servers.


> and even worse
> is that the more projects I add to the workarea, the slower the load
> becomes.  That's definitely an issue when I really just want to load to
> make one 2 minute fix ... waiting 10 minutes to start that fix is
> ridiculous.
>

Remember to close projects you are not using.


Casey


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[Robert Harrison-6]

Wow... you guys are brave, mentioning you still use HomeSite+.

Last time I mentioned it I got beat up pretty bad. Regardless, just one more
case where simple works, and overkill drags you down. When IDEs get like MS
word... nough said.


Robert B. Harrison
Director of Interactive Services
Austin & Williams
125 Kennedy Drive, Suite 100
Hauppauge NY 11788
P : 631.231.6600 Ext. 119
F : 631.434.7022
http://www.austin-williams.com 

Great advertising can't be either/or.  It must be &.

Plug in to our blog: A&W Unplugged
http://www.austin-williams.com/unplugged

 

__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature
database 4589 (20091109) __________

The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.

http://www.eset.com
 

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[Justin Scott-4]

> Can't you do that directly through the FTP directory under
> your project. you should have one ftp setup per project or
> at least those projects on different domains / servers.

My problem is that I have no concept of a "project" in my regular workflow.
I have one FTP account that gives me access to several servers at a remote
location which house hundreds of sites.  I might work in one folder for ten
minutes to make a small change, then switch to another folder (which
represents another server on the remote network) and then go into a web site
folder and work there for several hours and hop into another folder on the
same FTP server for 20 minutes to make another small change.  I may switch
working folders up to a dozen or more times per day depending on what is
going on.  Unfortunately I cannot make the root of my FTP account a
"project" because it wants to crawl through the folders and catalog
everything (hundreds of folders, close to two million files), so that just
doesn't work.  Setting up a "project" for every web site folder would just
be insanity given the sheer number of sites that I work on.


-Justin Scott


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[Justin Scott-4]

> For me, the move to Windows 7 64-bit at home means that I
> cannot even install HS, let alone use it, so I've been having
> to give it a full focus effort.

I'm running Windows 7 Pro on a 64-bit proc and was able to install HomeSite,
though it wouldn't run at all until I selected the "run in compatibility
mode" option for XP SP 3.  Unfortunately the way it integrates the Windows
explorer for browsing/opening/saving files just doesn't work in 7 for any of
the FTP shells that I've tried.

I'm actually getting the XP Compatibility Mode setup on my machine right now
to see if I can run it under that (basically an XP virtual machine) with
better results.  I'll let you know if it works.  All this messing with the
IDEs and trying to find something comparable that fits my workflow is
killing my normally stellar productivity, heh.


-Justin Scott



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[Dominic Watson]

But you *can* browse FTP directly in Eclipse (CFBuilder). Try Window -> Show
view -> Other... -> Aptana standard views -> File.

Dominic

2009/11/9 Justin Scott <jscott-lists@...>

>
> > Can't you do that directly through the FTP directory under
> > your project. you should have one ftp setup per project or
> > at least those projects on different domains / servers.
>
> My problem is that I have no concept of a "project" in my regular workflow.
> I have one FTP account that gives me access to several servers at a remote
> location which house hundreds of sites.  I might work in one folder for ten
> minutes to make a small change, then switch to another folder (which
> represents another server on the remote network) and then go into a web
> site
> folder and work there for several hours and hop into another folder on the
> same FTP server for 20 minutes to make another small change.  I may switch
> working folders up to a dozen or more times per day depending on what is
> going on.  Unfortunately I cannot make the root of my FTP account a
> "project" because it wants to crawl through the folders and catalog
> everything (hundreds of folders, close to two million files), so that just
> doesn't work.  Setting up a "project" for every web site folder would just
> be insanity given the sheer number of sites that I work on.
>
>
> -Justin Scott
>
>
>

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[Justin Scott-4]

> But you *can* browse FTP directly in Eclipse (CFBuilder). Try
> Window -> Show view -> Other... -> Aptana standard views -> File.

Hi Dominic, I reinstalled the beta 2 version clean (standalone, not as an
Eclipse plug-in since I don't use Eclipse) and that option wasn't present.
After poking around I did find a way to add an FTP server and cruise around
and open/edit/save existing files.  The biggest problem I ran into after
that was creating a new file.  The standard Ctrl+N and "new file" options
bring up a dialog box to add a "file resource" to a project, and of course
since I don't use the "project" system it wouldn't let me create a new file.
Very frustrating.  I did eventually find that if I right-click on a folder
on the FTP tree there are "new file" and "new folder" options there which
will create a new blank file (or folder) on the FTP server.  It's
unfortunate that the "new file" option within the editor doesn't tie into
that, but ah well.  At this point I can get to my existing files and create
new ones via FTP, so that gets my biggest problem out of the way.  Next will
be to find where they're hiding the color coding for the editor.  I found
some of it in the preferences, but some of the options seem to be missing
(comments, for example, can't find that one anywhere and the yellow
background has got to go, heh).

Anyway, thanks for everyone's nudging in the right direction.  I suppose for
those who already use and are familiar with Eclipse, the CFBuilder stuff is
just awesome and simple to adjust to.  For someone coming from a decade of
HomeSite+ having never used Eclipse, it's a lot to take in at once and the
way some things work doesn't entirely make sense just yet, but as I get more
into the program perhaps that will change.


-Justin Scott



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