Nabble - Sakai - Pedagogy

Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

2009-12-03T11:23:09Z

It's good to hear about all this, Keli. It might have been ideal if we'd had your work in hand when Sam started, but there's plenty of room for it to still be helpful. The target of the current phase is not to produce robust support for a wide variety of learning activities, but rather to distill an essential and fundamental interaction pattern that can be built upon. In other words, a core activity that can flex to eventually satisfy more complex cases.

So it seems to me one helpful way to use your work over the near term would be to use it to exercise what has been produced thus far: take the themes and activities gleaned from your interviews - the ones dealing with submission-feedback loops of all sorts - and work through some wireframes or paper prototypes with them. Look for points where their simple interactions could branch, or where they might look too brittle to accommodate the need. You might also point out themes you've identified that don't seem to be included, assuming they belong in that scope.

Which of course means we need to get these wireframes/prototypes into your hands. I'm hopeful they will have settled down well enough in the next week, and maybe a few of us could get together and go over them.

~Clay

On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 1:49 PM, <kamann@...> wrote:

Hi Clay,
As you know, this fall, Stanford embarked on the learning activities investigation with 8 other schools it was because we were concerned about two things—1) how learning activities, especially problem sets and tests, were created, taken and evaluated 2) identifying commonalities between how various types of activities (including papers, projects, and posts) were assigned by instructors and how activities and feedback was received by students. Part 2 was important because we wanted to insure that instructors and students no longer had to go to 2-3 different pages depending on the type of activity they were working with.

Thus our scope was widened to all "learning activities"--It was not clear who would build that framework or when, such as a unified dashboard view for instructors and students, but we wanted to help inform such a united framework that cut across "tool silos" before we designed and developed problem sets and tests.

In the meantime, Georgia Tech and Cambridge, along with the Sakai Foundation, hired Sam to design a simple course template in preparation for their adoption of Sakai 3 next summer. I knew this included syllabus building and viewing, but I'll admit, that until Clay mentioned the PDF posted on his blog at the t&l call yesterday, I was not aware that it would also include electronic submission and evaluation of assignments, specifically file uploads of papers (had not followed the link from his email before thanksgiving to http://sakaipm.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/leading-design/).

Yesterday, I reviewed Sam's work with much interest. As we are nearing the end of the learning activities interviews, I am happy to see that these sketches already address some major things we've been hearing.

I am hoping that our findings will be useful, both in giving supporting to design decisions as well as in suggesting adjustments. It will certainly be useful helping to map out future elaboration that might be required for assigning other types of activities. After our check in yesterday, we know we have 21 interviews from 7 schools (Texas, Berkeley, Michigan, Indiana, Virginia Tech, Wyoming, and Stanford) and I believe there will be more if Mt. Holyoke and Marist decide to proceed. Two of the schools provided 6 interviews about instructors who had their students turning in written work. We have 13 interviews about problem sets or quizzes. We also have 7 instructors who described at least 4 additional types of activities. The four student interviews we have give some additional insight.

Our original plan was to produce a write up, including personas and major themes, by the end of January. However, I did want to check in to see if there were other things we might do in light of Sam's work. Many have been asking if we were contributing to the spreadsheet and if this is continuing to drive his work, it might be worth it, but perhaps direct feedback on the design would be more useful at this stage.

Best,

Keli Amann
User Experience Specialist
Academic Computing, Stanford University

----- Original Message -----

From: "David Goodrum" <davidgoodrum@...>
To: adevans@..., "Sakai UX" <sakai-ux@...>, "pedagogy Learning" <pedagogy@...>, portfolio@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2009 7:13:17 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [DG: User Experience] [DG: Teaching & Learning] Leading Design

Hi Amber,

I'm encouraged to hear that some of what you have found in your contextual inquiry is already hinted at in the Learning Capabilities spreadsheet. It makes me more optimistic that these different kinds of efforts will dovetail and build on each other as the community pushes forward towards a deep understanding of how Sakai 3 needs to support teaching and learning. Any of the themes and activity flows emerging in the spreadsheet would benefit from the kind of deeper understanding that comes from contextual inquiry. I'm anxiously looking forward to the sharing that Keli Amann in a recent message said would happen by the end of January. Recently, Janice Smith has added concepts to the spreadsheet that reflect work the Portfolio community has done. There were hints in the spreadsheet already about portfolio-like capabilities, but the spreadsheet is much improved by the thorough treatment of these ideas directly from the Portfolio community. I think the rewards for finding and maintaining these broad connections between various teaching and learning concepts will be a rich set of Sakai 3 services available anywhere in the system and not just tied to specific tools or views.

Regards - David Goodrum

Director, Academic and Faculty Services
Learning Technologies
University Information Technology Services
Indiana University

From: Amber D. Evans <adevans@...>
To: Sakai UX <sakai-ux@...>
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DG: User Experience] [DG: Teaching & Learning] Leading Design

Clay,

(I'm reposting this to the larger Sakai community at your request.)

I hope that I and my group are not tragically late to this game, as we've been working with Stanford on collecting interviews as part of their Assignments and Test & Quizzes Contextual Inquiry/Fluid research design. My 3 person team and I will be spending much of today and Tuesday compiling our user persona notes form those interviews. I know that many other schools are also contributing to the Stanford UX project and may have similar questions or capability to contribute to the larger T&L Sakai 3.0 capabilities. Once done, my team and I would like to share resulting composite persona info with your group (and we have already started adding a little bit to the Google document ).

We just wanted to make sure that we didn't entirely miss the boat on this one, since the timeline is not entirely clear as to when this kind of user data will no longer be needed ... as your blog posting indicates , it's a constant on-going project, but I also recognize that at some point things have to be settled in order to move forward. We have noticed that much of what we could contribute has already been identified in the list, and only a few more ideas of value may be added (from us). If you could let me know how my colleagues and I can best make learning capabilities contributions (or other things) at this stage, it would be appreciated. Thanks!

Sincerely,
Amber D. Evans

Training and Documentation Coordinator, Online Course Systems (OCS)
= = =
Learning Technologies, Virginia Tech, 1220B Torgersen Hall (0292), Blacksburg, VA 24061
540.231.8053 | adevans@... | http://amsdiane.blogspot.com/
= = =
"Non scholae sed vitae discimus" ("We learn not for school but for life") -Seneca

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:03 PM, David Goodrum < davidgoodrum@... > wrote:

It's been interesting to see the level of collaboration the document has seen and how it has evolved because of that collaboration.

According to Google docs, there's been at least 15 collaborators on the document... likely more, since no login is required to edit it -- it is a totally open brainstorming document right now.

The spreadsheet is certainly not exhaustive nor complete, nor is that the intent for this phase. It currently does not necessarily reflect the best capabilities of Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect what all is missing or frustrating about Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect all of what Sakai 3 should aspire to; it doesn't even fully represent what teaching and learning goals should be supported in Sakai 3. So what's the point?

With 60+ rows right now, it begins to represent a fair cross section of many ambitions Sakai 3 perhaps ought to have in the teaching and learning space.

And it attempts to show how different levels of complexity and functional capabilities both link together and link back to a basic teaching and learning goal, hopefully expressed in everyday language.

Perhaps a bad analogy for the document would be the recent cell coverage maps... Ideally, our teaching and learning map would look like Verizon's 3G map... with nearly the whole map filled in. This brainstorming document today is more like the AT&T 3G coverage map: a lot of white space still to be filled in, but there is coverage of many core areas and outlines of many others.

For now it's a place to play out some ideas.

Got a teaching and learning idea? Something instructors want their students to do? Something students wish instructors would do? Something that develops collaboration and cooperation among students, encourages active learning, gives prompt feedback, emphasizes time on task, communicates high expectations, or respects diverse talents and ways of learning? Then add it to the brainstorm.

- David

From: Clay Fenlason < clay.fenlason@... >
To: Sakai UX < sakai-ux@... >; pedagogy Learning < pedagogy@... >
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 7:28:43 PM
Subject: [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

In recent weeks I've been trying to promote the maturation of the
learning capabilities spreadsheet [1] that David Goodrum has
championed. At the same time I've heard concerns that it might come to
naught or not be listened to. Just a couple days ago Josh Baron was
asking me when and how I thought the spreadsheet might actually be
used to inform the design. I told him, "It's happening right now." I'm
not sure he believed me, so I made a blog post with evidence:
http://sakaipm.wordpress.com

~Clay

[1] https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
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Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

2009-12-03T10:49:12Z

Hi Clay,
As you know, this fall, Stanford embarked on the learning activities investigation with 8 other schools it was because we were concerned about two things—1) how learning activities, especially problem sets and tests, were created, taken and evaluated 2) identifying commonalities between how various types of activities (including papers, projects, and posts) were assigned by instructors and how activities and feedback was received by students. Part 2 was important because we wanted to insure that instructors and students no longer had to go to 2-3 different pages depending on the type of activity they were working with.

Thus our scope was widened to all "learning activities"--It was not clear who would build that framework or when, such as a unified dashboard view for instructors and students, but we wanted to help inform such a united framework that cut across "tool silos" before we designed and developed problem sets and tests.

In the meantime, Georgia Tech and Cambridge, along with the Sakai Foundation, hired Sam to design a simple course template in preparation for their adoption of Sakai 3 next summer. I knew this included syllabus building and viewing, but I'll admit, that until Clay mentioned the PDF posted on his blog at the t&l call yesterday, I was not aware that it would also include electronic submission and evaluation of assignments, specifically file uploads of papers (had not followed the link from his email before thanksgiving to http://sakaipm.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/leading-design/).

Yesterday, I reviewed Sam's work with much interest. As we are nearing the end of the learning activities interviews, I am happy to see that these sketches already address some major things we've been hearing.

I am hoping that our findings will be useful, both in giving supporting to design decisions as well as in suggesting adjustments. It will certainly be useful helping to map out future elaboration that might be required for assigning other types of activities. After our check in yesterday, we know we have 21 interviews from 7 schools (Texas, Berkeley, Michigan, Indiana, Virginia Tech, Wyoming, and Stanford) and I believe there will be more if Mt. Holyoke and Marist decide to proceed. Two of the schools provided 6 interviews about instructors who had their students turning in written work. We have 13 interviews about problem sets or quizzes. We also have 7 instructors who described at least 4 additional types of activities. The four student interviews we have give some additional insight.

Our original plan was to produce a write up, including personas and major themes, by the end of January. However, I did want to check in to see if there were other things we might do in light of Sam's work. Many have been asking if we were contributing to the spreadsheet and if this is continuing to drive his work, it might be worth it, but perhaps direct feedback on the design would be more useful at this stage.

Best,
Keli Amann
User Experience Specialist
Academic Computing, Stanford University

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Goodrum" <davidgoodrum@...>
To: adevans@..., "Sakai UX" <sakai-ux@...>, "pedagogy Learning" <pedagogy@...>, portfolio@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 1, 2009 7:13:17 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [DG: User Experience] [DG: Teaching & Learning] Leading Design

Hi Amber,

I'm encouraged to hear that some of what you have found in your contextual inquiry is already hinted at in the Learning Capabilities spreadsheet. It makes me more optimistic that these different kinds of efforts will dovetail and build on each other as the community pushes forward towards a deep understanding of how Sakai 3 needs to support teaching and learning. Any of the themes and activity flows emerging in the spreadsheet would benefit from the kind of deeper understanding that comes from contextual inquiry. I'm anxiously looking forward to the sharing that Keli Amann in a recent message said would happen by the end of January. Recently, Janice Smith has added concepts to the spreadsheet that reflect work the Portfolio community has done. There were hints in the spreadsheet already about portfolio-like capabilities, but the spreadsheet is much improved by the thorough treatment of these ideas directly from the Portfolio community. I think the rewards for finding and maintaining these broad connections between various teaching and learning concepts will be a rich set of Sakai 3 services available anywhere in the system and not just tied to specific tools or views.

Regards - David Goodrum

Director, Academic and Faculty Services
Learning Technologies
University Information Technology Services
Indiana University

From: Amber D. Evans <adevans@...>
To: Sakai UX <sakai-ux@...>
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DG: User Experience] [DG: Teaching & Learning] Leading Design

Clay,

(I'm reposting this to the larger Sakai community at your request.)

I hope that I and my group are not tragically late to this game, as we've been working with Stanford on collecting interviews as part of their Assignments and Test & Quizzes Contextual Inquiry/Fluid research design. My 3 person team and I will be spending much of today and Tuesday compiling our user persona notes form those interviews. I know that many other schools are also contributing to the Stanford UX project and may have similar questions or capability to contribute to the larger T&L Sakai 3.0 capabilities. Once done, my team and I would like to share resulting composite persona info with your group (and we have already started adding a little bit to the Google document ).

We just wanted to make sure that we didn't entirely miss the boat on this one, since the timeline is not entirely clear as to when this kind of user data will no longer be needed ... as your blog posting indicates , it's a constant on-going project, but I also recognize that at some point things have to be settled in order to move forward. We have noticed that much of what we could contribute has already been identified in the list, and only a few more ideas of value may be added (from us). If you could let me know how my colleagues and I can best make learning capabilities contributions (or other things) at this stage, it would be appreciated. Thanks!

Sincerely,
Amber D. Evans

Training and Documentation Coordinator, Online Course Systems (OCS)
= = =
Learning Technologies, Virginia Tech, 1220B Torgersen Hall (0292), Blacksburg, VA 24061
540.231.8053 | adevans@... | http://amsdiane.blogspot.com/
= = =
"Non scholae sed vitae discimus" ("We learn not for school but for life") -Seneca

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:03 PM, David Goodrum < davidgoodrum@... > wrote:

It's been interesting to see the level of collaboration the document has seen and how it has evolved because of that collaboration.

According to Google docs, there's been at least 15 collaborators on the document... likely more, since no login is required to edit it -- it is a totally open brainstorming document right now.

The spreadsheet is certainly not exhaustive nor complete, nor is that the intent for this phase. It currently does not necessarily reflect the best capabilities of Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect what all is missing or frustrating about Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect all of what Sakai 3 should aspire to; it doesn't even fully represent what teaching and learning goals should be supported in Sakai 3. So what's the point?

With 60+ rows right now, it begins to represent a fair cross section of many ambitions Sakai 3 perhaps ought to have in the teaching and learning space.

And it attempts to show how different levels of complexity and functional capabilities both link together and link back to a basic teaching and learning goal, hopefully expressed in everyday language.

Perhaps a bad analogy for the document would be the recent cell coverage maps... Ideally, our teaching and learning map would look like Verizon's 3G map... with nearly the whole map filled in. This brainstorming document today is more like the AT&T 3G coverage map: a lot of white space still to be filled in, but there is coverage of many core areas and outlines of many others.

For now it's a place to play out some ideas.

Got a teaching and learning idea? Something instructors want their students to do? Something students wish instructors would do? Something that develops collaboration and cooperation among students, encourages active learning, gives prompt feedback, emphasizes time on task, communicates high expectations, or respects diverse talents and ways of learning? Then add it to the brainstorm.

- David

From: Clay Fenlason < clay.fenlason@... >
To: Sakai UX < sakai-ux@... >; pedagogy Learning < pedagogy@... >
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 7:28:43 PM
Subject: [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

In recent weeks I've been trying to promote the maturation of the
learning capabilities spreadsheet [1] that David Goodrum has
championed. At the same time I've heard concerns that it might come to
naught or not be listened to. Just a couple days ago Josh Baron was
asking me when and how I thought the spreadsheet might actually be
used to inform the design. I told him, "It's happening right now." I'm
not sure he believed me, so I made a blog post with evidence:
http://sakaipm.wordpress.com

~Clay

[1] https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
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[DG: Teaching & Learning] learning capability requirements at CSU

2009-12-02T14:06:32Z

Colleagues

CSU has completed an initial and extensive gathering of information on learning capability requirements (thanks to Carole Hunter of the Division of Learning and Teaching Services who coordinated this) and added it to the Sakai community's spreadsheet (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en&pli=1). The additions are in green and marked as coming from CSU as we have unfortunately not been able to contribute to the evolving growth of the document before.

We would very much like to be part of discussions in this group on further work on and emanating from this document J

Regards

Philip
.....................................
Dr Philip Uys

Director, Strategic Learning and Teaching Innovation
Division of Learning and Teaching Services (LTS)
Charles Sturt University, PO Box 883, Orange, NSW 2800, Australia
puys@... Phone: +61 (0)2 6365 7501
Fax: +61 (0)2 6365 7670 http://www.csu.edu.au/division/lts/

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[DG: Teaching & Learning] Reminder > Sakai Teaching and Learning Call TODAY (with Clay Fenlason)

2009-12-02T07:38:18Z

Folks,

We will be having our regular weekly Teaching and Learning Sakai group call today at 12 Noon EST. Call-in information is below.

As a reminder, the group has spent the past month or so working on populating the Learning Capabilities Google spreadsheet with simple user-centric goals. At the present time (thanks in part of the work of Janice Smith over the last week who added a lot of portfolio-focused goals), we have 113 rows of goals documented. The spreadsheet is linked off the Teaching and Learning confluence site.

The group decided previously that we would take a "pause" at this point in the population process to assess what we've created and discuss how to begin to organize and group what has been documented. As part of this effort, we have invited Clay Fenlason, Sakai Product Manager, to join the call again today so that we can engage in a discussion with him as to how the materials are currently being used and how they might be used in the future. This discussion should help inform our next round of activities.

To help prepare for our conversation with Clay, I would like to suggest that folks take a few minutes prior to the call to read over his recent blog posting (see the Leading Design post at http://sakaipm.wordpress.com) as it discusses how he had been using the materials to date and provides an example from Sam Peck, the designer he is working with, as well.

Talk with everyone in a bit,

Josh

Calls are currently taking place every Wednesday at 12:00 Noon ET (New York, USA). To participate:

* Dial 1-888-447-7153 (International callers: 1-719-387-1138)
* Enter in passcode: 917798 (the hit #)
* Listen to music until "moderator" starts the call
* Need help? Call tech support at 1-877-807-0970

-----------------------------
Joshua Baron
Director, Academic Technology and eLearning
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York 12601
(845) 575-3623 (work)
Twitter: JoshBaron
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Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

2009-12-01T07:13:17Z

Hi Amber,

I'm encouraged to hear that some of what you have found in your contextual inquiry is already hinted at in the Learning Capabilities spreadsheet. It makes me more optimistic that these different kinds of efforts will dovetail and build on each other as the community pushes forward towards a deep understanding of how Sakai 3 needs to support teaching and learning. Any of the themes and activity flows emerging in the spreadsheet would benefit from the kind of deeper understanding that comes from contextual inquiry. I'm anxiously looking forward to the sharing that Keli Amann in a recent message said would happen by the end of January. Recently, Janice Smith has added concepts to the spreadsheet that reflect work the Portfolio community has done. There were hints in the spreadsheet already about portfolio-like capabilities, but the spreadsheet is much improved by the thorough treatment of these ideas directly from the Portfolio community. I think the rewards for finding and maintaining these broad connections between various teaching and learning concepts will be a rich set of Sakai 3 services available anywhere in the system and not just tied to specific tools or views.

Regards - David Goodrum

Director, Academic and Faculty Services

Learning Technologies

University Information Technology Services

Indiana University

From: Amber D. Evans <adevans@...>
To: Sakai UX <sakai-ux@...>
Sent: Mon, November 30, 2009 3:11:22 PM
Subject: Re: [DG: User Experience] [DG: Teaching & Learning] Leading Design

Clay,

(I'm reposting this to the larger Sakai community at your request.)

I hope that I and my group are not tragically late to this game, as we've been working with Stanford on collecting interviews as part of their Assignments and Test & Quizzes Contextual Inquiry/Fluid research design. My 3 person team and I will be spending much of today and Tuesday compiling our user persona notes form those interviews. I know that many other schools are also contributing to the Stanford UX project and may have similar questions or capability to contribute to the larger T&L Sakai 3.0 capabilities. Once done, my team and I would like to share resulting composite persona info with your group (and we have already started adding a little bit to the Google document).

We just wanted to make sure that we didn't entirely miss the boat on this one, since the timeline is not entirely clear as to when this kind of user data will no longer be needed ... as your blog posting indicates, it's a constant on-going project, but I also recognize that at some point things have to be settled in order to move forward. We have noticed that much of what we could contribute has already been identified in the list, and only a few more ideas of value may be added (from us). If you could let me know how my colleagues and I can best make learning capabilities contributions (or other things) at this stage, it would be appreciated. Thanks!

Sincerely,
Amber D. Evans

Training and Documentation Coordinator, Online Course Systems (OCS)
= = =
Learning Technologies, Virginia Tech, 1220B Torgersen Hall (0292), Blacksburg, VA 24061
540.231.8053 | adevans@... | http://amsdiane.blogspot.com/
= = =
"Non scholae sed vitae discimus" ("We learn not for school but for life") -Seneca

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:03 PM, David Goodrum <davidgoodrum@...> wrote:

It's been interesting to see the level of collaboration the document has seen and how it has evolved because of that collaboration.

According to Google docs, there's been at least 15 collaborators on the document... likely more, since no login is required to edit it -- it is a totally open brainstorming document right now.

The spreadsheet is certainly not exhaustive nor complete, nor is that the intent for this phase. It currently does not necessarily reflect the best capabilities of Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect what all is missing or frustrating about Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect all of what Sakai 3 should aspire to; it doesn't even fully represent what teaching and learning goals should be supported in Sakai 3. So what's the point?

With 60+ rows right now, it begins to represent a fair cross section of many ambitions Sakai 3 perhaps ought to have in the teaching and learning space.

And it attempts to show how different levels of complexity and functional capabilities both link together and link back to a basic teaching and learning goal, hopefully expressed in everyday language.

Perhaps a bad analogy for the document would be the recent cell coverage maps... Ideally, our teaching and learning map would look like Verizon's 3G map... with nearly the whole map filled in. This brainstorming document today is more like the AT&T 3G coverage map: a lot of white space still to be filled in, but there is coverage of many core areas and outlines of many others.

For now it's a place to play out some ideas.

Got a teaching and learning idea? Something instructors want their students to do? Something students wish instructors would do? Something that develops collaboration and cooperation among students, encourages active learning, gives prompt feedback, emphasizes time on task, communicates high expectations, or respects diverse talents and ways of learning? Then add it to the brainstorm.

- David

From: Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...>
To: Sakai UX <sakai-ux@...>; pedagogy Learning <pedagogy@...>
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 7:28:43 PM
Subject: [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

In recent weeks I've been trying to promote the maturation of the
learning capabilities spreadsheet [1] that David Goodrum has
championed. At the same time I've heard concerns that it might come to
naught or not be listened to. Just a couple days ago Josh Baron was
asking me when and how I thought the spreadsheet might actually be
used to inform the design. I told him, "It's happening right now." I'm
not sure he believed me, so I made a blog post with evidence:
http://sakaipm.wordpress.com

~Clay

[1] https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
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Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

2009-11-30T16:36:08Z

Hello
Regarding the Contextual Inquiry work (aka interviews) for Learning Activities that Amber alludes to, I wanted to give an update to the community.

The following schools responded to Stanford's initial call in September for participants: Berkeley, Indiana, Marist, Michigan, Mount Holyoke, Texas State (San Marcos), Virginia Tech, and Wyoming. There were a few other schools who were interested but were unable to participate actively.

So far, we have conducted 11 interviews among 4 schools and expect at least 3 of the remaining 5 schools to be sharing their findings in the next two weeks. We've had a few group meetings with interviewers to discuss individual findings and my colleague Jackie and I are in the process of analyzing the interview notes for themes and differences. This analysis will be used as the basis of a writeup, which will include descriptions of personas, or fictional archetypical users.

Even with only half of the schools reporting, themes and characteristics are emerging. However, before committing disembodied, half-formed statements to a spreadsheet, we want to stick to our original plan devote time to fleshing this out. We hope to finish this write up and share it with the Sakai community by the end of January. I missed one or two T&L calls, but I believe the spreadsheet is not necessarily tied to a time frame or driving immediate production, so I hope that's fine.

As it is, there are some teams on this project that have had delays that may worry that we won't take their findings into account. I strongly suspect that we'll have your user types mostly covered even if we were to start writing today, if not the detail of your workflows. However since the Stanford UX team is analyzing over the next 3 weeks before winter break, then doing writeups in January, we'll have ample time to course correct if your interviewees notes arrive in 3 week and are radically different. Workflow details will become more important starting in February, by which time you will probably be done.

We are having our final meeting tomorrow for interviewers to share results. We plan to schedule a meeting in 7-8 weeks to share our analysis with the wider community. We're hoping that even schools that didn't participate in interviews will recognize the user types we describe, even if the person you know is slightly different (teaching French rather than Spanish), but will add user types if necessary.

Keli Amann
User Experience Specialist
Academic Computing, Stanford University

----- Original Message -----
From: "Amber D. Evans" <adevans@...>
To: "Clay Fenlason" <clay.fenlason@...>
Cc: "Sakai UX" <sakai-ux@...>, "pedagogy Learning" <pedagogy@...>, "Samantha Blevins" <sjblevin@...>, "Teggin Summers" <techambe@...>, "keli amann" <keli.amann@...>, "Jacqueline Mai" <jamai@...>
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 8:39:01 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

Clay,

(I'm reposting this to the larger Sakai community at your request.)

I hope that I and my group are not tragically late to this game, as we've been working with Stanford on collecting interviews as part of their Assignments and Test & Quizzes Contextual Inquiry/Fluid research design. My 3 person team and I will be spending much of today and Tuesday compiling our user persona notes form those interviews. I know that many other schools are also contributing to the Stanford UX project and may have similar questions or capability to contribute to the larger T&L Sakai 3.0 capabilities. Once done, my team and I would like to share resulting composite persona info with your group (and we have already started adding a little bit to the Google document ).

We just wanted to make sure that we didn't entirely miss the boat on this one, since the timeline is not entirely clear as to when this kind of user data will no longer be needed ... as your blog posting indicates , it's a constant on-going project, but I also recognize that at some point things have to be settled in order to move forward. We have noticed that much of what we could contribute has already been identified in the list, and only a few more ideas of value may be added (from us). If you could let me know how my colleagues and I can best make learning capabilities contributions (or other things) at this stage, it would be appreciated. Thanks!

Sincerely,
Amber D. Evans

Training and Documentation Coordinator, Online Course Systems (OCS)
= = =
Learning Technologies, Virginia Tech, 1220B Torgersen Hall (0292), Blacksburg, VA 24061
540.231.8053 | adevans@... | http://amsdiane.blogspot.com/
= = =
"Non scholae sed vitae discimus" ("We learn not for school but for life") -Seneca

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:03 PM, David Goodrum < davidgoodrum@... > wrote:

It's been interesting to see the level of collaboration the document has seen and how it has evolved because of that collaboration.

According to Google docs, there's been at least 15 collaborators on the document... likely more, since no login is required to edit it -- it is a totally open brainstorming document right now.

The spreadsheet is certainly not exhaustive nor complete, nor is that the intent for this phase. It currently does not necessarily reflect the best capabilities of Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect what all is missing or frustrating about Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect all of what Sakai 3 should aspire to; it doesn't even fully represent what teaching and learning goals should be supported in Sakai 3. So what's the point?

With 60+ rows right now, it begins to represent a fair cross section of many ambitions Sakai 3 perhaps ought to have in the teaching and learning space.

And it attempts to show how different levels of complexity and functional capabilities both link together and link back to a basic teaching and learning goal, hopefully expressed in everyday language.

Perhaps a bad analogy for the document would be the recent cell coverage maps... Ideally, our teaching and learning map would look like Verizon's 3G map... with nearly the whole map filled in. This brainstorming document today is more like the AT&T 3G coverage map: a lot of white space still to be filled in, but there is coverage of many core areas and outlines of many others.

For now it's a place to play out some ideas.

Got a teaching and learning idea? Something instructors want their students to do? Something students wish instructors would do? Something that develops collaboration and cooperation among students, encourages active learning, gives prompt feedback, emphasizes time on task, communicates high expectations, or respects diverse talents and ways of learning? Then add it to the brainstorm.

- David

From: Clay Fenlason < clay.fenlason@... >
To: Sakai UX < sakai-ux@... >; pedagogy Learning < pedagogy@... >
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 7:28:43 PM
Subject: [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

In recent weeks I've been trying to promote the maturation of the
learning capabilities spreadsheet [1] that David Goodrum has
championed. At the same time I've heard concerns that it might come to
naught or not be listened to. Just a couple days ago Josh Baron was
asking me when and how I thought the spreadsheet might actually be
used to inform the design. I told him, "It's happening right now." I'm
not sure he believed me, so I made a blog post with evidence:
http://sakaipm.wordpress.com

~Clay

[1] https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
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Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

2009-11-30T08:39:01Z

On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 7:03 PM, David Goodrum <davidgoodrum@...> wrote:

It's been interesting to see the level of collaboration the document has seen and how it has evolved because of that collaboration.

According to Google docs, there's been at least 15 collaborators on the document... likely more, since no login is required to edit it -- it is a totally open brainstorming document right now.

The spreadsheet is certainly not exhaustive nor complete, nor is that the intent for this phase. It currently does not necessarily reflect the best capabilities of Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect what all is missing or frustrating about Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect all of what Sakai 3 should aspire to; it doesn't even fully represent what teaching and learning goals should be supported in Sakai 3. So what's the point?

With 60+ rows right now, it begins to represent a fair cross section of many ambitions Sakai 3 perhaps ought to have in the teaching and learning space.

And it attempts to show how different levels of complexity and functional capabilities both link together and link back to a basic teaching and learning goal, hopefully expressed in everyday language.

Perhaps a bad analogy for the document would be the recent cell coverage maps... Ideally, our teaching and learning map would look like Verizon's 3G map... with nearly the whole map filled in. This brainstorming document today is more like the AT&T 3G coverage map: a lot of white space still to be filled in, but there is coverage of many core areas and outlines of many others.

For now it's a place to play out some ideas.

Got a teaching and learning idea? Something instructors want their students to do? Something students wish instructors would do? Something that develops collaboration and cooperation among students, encourages active learning, gives prompt feedback, emphasizes time on task, communicates high expectations, or respects diverse talents and ways of learning? Then add it to the brainstorm.

- David

From: Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...>
To: Sakai UX <sakai-ux@...>; pedagogy Learning <pedagogy@...>
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 7:28:43 PM
Subject: [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

In recent weeks I've been trying to promote the maturation of the
learning capabilities spreadsheet [1] that David Goodrum has
championed. At the same time I've heard concerns that it might come to
naught or not be listened to. Just a couple days ago Josh Baron was
asking me when and how I thought the spreadsheet might actually be
used to inform the design. I told him, "It's happening right now." I'm
not sure he believed me, so I made a blog post with evidence:
http://sakaipm.wordpress.com

~Clay

[1] https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
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[DG: Teaching & Learning] Portfolio capabilities added to Learning Capabilities spreadsheet

2009-11-24T14:15:55Z

Dear OSP and T&L Communities

I have just finished a reorganization and rewriting of the Portfolio-related Vignettes from Sakai Confluence and have posted them on rows 74-98 on the Learning Capabilities Google Spreadsheet. The rewrite was necessary because the categories on our Confluence page are different from the categories on the Learning Capabilities spreadsheet. I attempted to fully preserve the intent of our original document.

The Learning Capabilities spreadsheet can be found at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en.

I invite comments and critiques from the OSP Community. (Please send them to me directly.) Let's make sure we tell our story well!

T&L friends - we are hopeful that you will see how many similarities there are between the needs of users in our two communities. We look forward to continued collaboration on the functionality of Sakai 3.0!

Janice

Janice A. Smith, Ph.D.
2009 Sakai Foundation Fellow
Three Canoes
1204 Laurel Avenue
Saint Paul, Minnesota 55104, USA
651-642-9069, 207-841-6262 (cell)
janice.smith@...
jasmith@...

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Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [Portfolio] OSP Community contribution to the Learning Capabilities Google document

2009-11-24T13:31:18Z

Hi Janice,

It's great to see the OSP ideas being clearly articulated in the Learning Capabilities page. It's a great addition!

- David

From: janice.smith <janice.smith@...>
To: portfolio@...
Sent: Tue, November 24, 2009 1:22:53 PM
Subject: [Portfolio] OSP Community contribution to the Learning Capabilities Google document

Hi David

At our Monday meeting, I was asked by the OSP Community to translate our Confluence page on Portfolio-related Vignettes for addition to the Learning Capabilities page. Given that the categories across our two pages are very different, I am rewriting and reorganizing and will transfer the results all at one time today or tomorrow. We recognize that the many portfolio-like items you list below are already in the document and that some of what we suggest will be somewhat redundant, but choose to add our approximately twenty items rather than edit what is already there. Thank you for encouraging us to contribute!

Janice

Janice A. Smith, Ph.D.
2009 Sakai Foundation Fellow
Three Canoes
1204 Laurel Avenue
Saint Paul, Minnesota 55104, USA
651-642-9069, 207-841-6262 (cell)
janice.smith@...
jasmith@...

Subject: [Portfolio] Learning Capabilities spreadsheet
From: David Goodrum <davidgoodrum@...>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:40:37 -0800 (PST)
To: portfolio@...

------------------------- Contents -------------------------

There's been an increasing awareness of the brainstorming activity reflected in the Learning Capabilities spreadsheet:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en

It's been interesting to see the level of collaboration the document has seen and how it has evolved because of that collaboration. According to Google docs, there's been at least 15 collaborators on the document... likely more, since no login is required to edit it -- it is a totally open brainstorming document right now.

The spreadsheet is certainly not exhaustive nor complete, nor is that the intent for this phase. It currently does not necessarily reflect the best capabilities of Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect what all is missing or frustrating about Sakai 2.x; it does not reflect all of what Sakai 3 should aspire to; it doesn't even fully represent what teaching and learning goals should be supported in Sakai 3. So what's the point?

With 60+ rows right now, it begins to represent a fair cross section of many ambitions Sakai 3 perhaps ought to have in the teaching and learning space.

And it attempts to show how different levels of complexity and functional capabilities both link together and link back to a basic teaching and learning goal, hopefully expressed in everyday language.

Perhaps a bad analogy for the document would be the recent cell coverage maps... Ideally, our teaching and learning map would look like Verizon's 3G map... with nearly the whole map filled in. This brainstorming document today is more like the AT&T 3G coverage map: a lot of white space still to be filled in, but there is coverage of many core areas and outlines of many others.

For now it's a place to play out some ideas.

Got a teaching and learning idea? Something instructors want their students to do? Something students wish instructors would do? Something that develops collaboration and cooperation among students, encourages active learning, gives prompt feedback, emphasizes time on task, communicates high expectations, or respects diverse talents and ways of learning? Then add it to the brainstorm.

And here are some ideas/language already in the document that seem related to Portfolio concepts (including an explicit reference/link in the last item to the important vignette development the OSP group has been refining):

Current row 9 "I need to track student learning"

I need to track student learning

Show details of expectations and levels of accomplishment Provide guidance, examples, rubrics. Link to portfolios of previous students of this course (with permission)

Publish and subscribe to goals; map heirarchical relationships between goals
Organize and track lifelong learning for the individual and the institution; track student progress over their entire academic career

Current row 19 "I want to give my students grades"

I want to provide feedback on submitted work; I want students to review and critique each other's work as well.

Feedback / comment with rich-text formatting and attachments for any object
Any object can receive a comment or grade; Grouping of objects (e.g., portfolio) that receive feedback; both open and structured feedback

Grades are a special case of feedback and non-numerical assessment should be supported; Instructor feedback; self feedback; peer feedback; external to class review; external to system review; multitude of permissions for who can see what

Current row 41 "I want to represent specific campus/school/program learning goals (and associated grading/assessment rubrics) as a framework for a large set of courses."

Goals and rubrics can be a way for an institution to differentiate itself through standards for excellence from other institutions and for showing that program X complies with Association Y's expectations.

Some goals and rubrics are rather specific must be approved by an "assessment coordinator" for educational QA purposes as part of a larger assessment system strategy. Changing the assessment/rubric in this case involves more than just an individual instructor.

Goals created by others (the individual student or instructor or a particular program) can be mapped to larger campus/school goals. Some rubrics may be general purpose rubrics that are NOT tied to an assessment, but the dissemination of these approved rubrics may be a strategy of an institution to push forward an agenda of best practice for assessment by providing a handy reference library of general purpose writing, mathematics and science rubrics (for example). While the choice whether or not to use one of these "off the shelf" rubrics (and which one) is left to the teacher, providing some information to the teacher about the schools expectations of its students at different stages (and perhaps suggesting an appropriate rubric for this grade level/stage of development) would make this service more valuable.

Some items in the library of "off the shelf" goals and rubrics are merely starting points. There is not a priority to ensure that everyone is doing assessment the exact same way. When a teacher uses one of these rubrics, they can easily edit the performance indicators to suit their needs and create a new rubric, just for their new assignment. Goals and rubrics can be shared with others. This is a bottom up approach to establishing "best practice". As the teachers create their own rubrics against goals, they have the opportunity to publish them as part of the "reusable" library so other teachers can use/edit/republish them.

[note that this was largely copied and paste from a posting Sean Keesler made to one of the lists]

Current line 43 "I want to encourage and at times require students to reflect on the task I have them doing.

I want to add a guided metacognitive aspect to tasks I give students.

This might be an open ended reflection. But this might be also a structured reflection, for example ask them to rate their confidence in a task (or even for an individual question I've asked them), or to classify their contribution to a task or discussion (e.g., claim, reason, evidence, warrant, or acknowledgement/response).

Current line 52 "I want to create an analytic rubric or holistic, share it with my students, and use it to grade and/or evaluate an open-ended assignment"

Tool for generating analytic and holstic rubrics. Instructor enters criteria, rating scale, and characterisics of work associated with each point on the scale. Rubric can be attached to any example of student work and isntructor can opt to display to students before submission. To grade or evaluate, instructor clicks or selects the rating for each criterion. Students see a read only version of the rubric with the instructions rating selections.

Instructors can easily classify and share rubrics with specific colleagues, their department, program, campus , and/or the public. Rubrics can be associated with learning outcomes/goals.

Current line 56 "I want my students to keep a log or journal on their experience in this course."

Current line 70 "I want to continue to have access to all of my work products after the class and even after I graduate."

Current line 72 "Support for wide range of portfolio related activities: Guide, Collect, Reflect, Tag, Associate, Evaluate, Share, Report, Flow, Assess, Present, Customize, Preserve, Document, Collaborate, Own, Empower, Re-purpose, Port, Express, Migrate"

See Portfolio vignettes:
http://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/UX/Portfolio-related+vignettes

So please feel free to add to or expand something already there. Or at least take a look and see how this brainstorming exercise is evolving. This activity may help to identify functions that various Sakai groups are exploring.

Regards - David

Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

2009-11-23T16:03:51Z

It's been interesting to see the level of collaboration the document has seen and how it has evolved because of that collaboration.

According to Google docs, there's been at least 15 collaborators on the document... likely more, since no login is required to edit it -- it is a totally open brainstorming document right now.

With 60+ rows right now, it begins to represent a fair cross section of many ambitions Sakai 3 perhaps ought to have in the teaching and learning space.

For now it's a place to play out some ideas.

- David

From: Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...>
To: Sakai UX <sakai-ux@...>; pedagogy Learning <pedagogy@...>
Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 7:28:43 PM
Subject: [DG: User Experience] Leading Design

In recent weeks I've been trying to promote the maturation of the
learning capabilities spreadsheet [1] that David Goodrum has
championed. At the same time I've heard concerns that it might come to
naught or not be listened to. Just a couple days ago Josh Baron was
asking me when and how I thought the spreadsheet might actually be
used to inform the design. I told him, "It's happening right now." I'm
not sure he believed me, so I made a blog post with evidence:
http://sakaipm.wordpress.com

~Clay

[1] https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
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[DG: Teaching & Learning] [libsakai] Nov 19 Library & Sakai 3 Integration Meeting Notes

2009-11-19T11:17:45Z

Thanks to everyone who was able to make it to the meeting! We heard
updates from nine institutions, covering 16 completed, diverse user
interviews and a few more that are planned. With an email update from
Mount Holyoke, we have a total of 19 interviews complete, surpassing
our goal of 18.

Find more meeting notes and next steps toward the bottom of our
meeting's wiki page:
http://confluence.sakaiproject.org//x/ggoAB

Thanks,
Gaurav
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Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [libsakai] Nov 19: Library & Sakai 3 Integration Web Meeting

2009-11-19T06:45:18Z

Friendly reminder - we'll be meeting today at 11:30am EST. Agenda and call details in message below. If you are an interviewer that will not be able to attend, please send me a brief update I may share at the call.

Thanks very much!

See you soon,
Gaurav

On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 8:56 AM, Gaurav Bhatnagar <gbhatnag@...> wrote:

Hello!

The Library & Sakai 3 Integration Project has completed a number of user interviews with various instructors at multiple different campuses to learn why and how they use scholarly resources in preparing and conducting their courses. In our Nov 19 web meeting, hear who we've been talking to and what we've learned. We will also discuss the process for getting this interview data organized and analyzed and share an updated project timeline.

An agenda for the meeting can be found at:
http://confluence.sakaiproject.org//x/ggoAB

The meeting is Thursday, Nov 19, from 11:30am to 1pm, Eastern using the Sakai002 Conference Bridge:
- Telephone: +1 812 856 7060
- Internet: 156.56.240.9 (via Polycom, XMeeting (Mac), Ekiga (Linux))
- Conference Code: 350#
- PIN: 72524#

Thanks,
Gaurav

[DG: Teaching & Learning] Leading Design

2009-11-18T16:28:43Z

In recent weeks I've been trying to promote the maturation of the
learning capabilities spreadsheet [1] that David Goodrum has
championed. At the same time I've heard concerns that it might come to
naught or not be listened to. Just a couple days ago Josh Baron was
asking me when and how I thought the spreadsheet might actually be
used to inform the design. I told him, "It's happening right now." I'm
not sure he believed me, so I made a blog post with evidence:
http://sakaipm.wordpress.com

~Clay

[1] https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
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[DG: Teaching & Learning] Reminder > Today's Sakai Teaching and Learning Call

2009-11-18T08:41:08Z

Folks,

Just a reminder that David Goodrum will be facilitating an informal call today at our regular 12 Noon EST time. If you don't participate please consider taking the time today to continue adding to the Learning Capabilities Google Spreadsheet that I've referenced in past e-mails.

A link to the Learning Capabilities spreadsheet and call in information is posted to the Teaching and Learning group Confluence at at:

http://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/PED

I'm going to try and jump on the call if possible (I'm at Kuali days right now).

Josh

-----------------------------
Joshua Baron
Director, Academic Technology and eLearning
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York 12601
(845) 575-3623 (work)
Twitter: JoshBaron
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Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [libsakai] Nov 19: Library & Sakai 3 Integration Web Meeting

2009-11-18T07:52:49Z

Hi Laura,

Thanks for your message. We are not specifically defining "scholarly resources" but letting our users do so. We want to learn about how they think about scholarly resources and uncover resources they use regularly that are not traditionally perceived as scholarly. What we are finding is that many instructors are using more emerging technologies and web resources (i.e. Wikipedia, YouTube, Google Images) for their teaching than ever before. Although scholarly resources may remain to be seen as peer-reviewed journal articles and the like, we want to be sure that what we design fits their broader and evolving teaching needs.

Others in the group may have ideas about this as well and are welcome to add to or correct what I've stated here!

Thanks,
Gaurav

On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 4:38 AM, Laura James <laura@...> wrote:

Hello,

I've been reading around the confluence pages and the project is fascinating and seems to be making good progress, which is super. One thing I couldn't find a definition for anywhere though is "scholarly resources" - is there a common understanding of what this means to the project?

Best,

Laura

On 17 Nov 2009, at 13:56, Gaurav Bhatnagar wrote:

> Hello!
>
> The Library & Sakai 3 Integration Project has completed a number of user interviews with various instructors at multiple different campuses to learn why and how they use scholarly resources in preparing and conducting their courses. In our Nov 19 web meeting, hear who we've been talking to and what we've learned. We will also discuss the process for getting this interview data organized and analyzed and share an updated project timeline.
>
> An agenda for the meeting can be found at:
> http://confluence.sakaiproject.org//x/ggoAB
>
> The meeting is Thursday, Nov 19, from 11:30am to 1pm, Eastern using the Sakai002 Conference Bridge:
> - Telephone: +1 812 856 7060
> - Internet: 156.56.240.9 (via Polycom, XMeeting (Mac), Ekiga (Linux))
> - Conference Code: 350#
> - PIN: 72524#
>
> Thanks,
> Gaurav

> _______________________________________________
> pedagogy mailing list
> pedagogy@...
> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy
>
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[DG: Teaching & Learning] IMS Library Integration Survey

2009-11-17T11:13:37Z

I wanted to make sure Sakai library folks saw this call from the IMS:

Library Integration Survey

IMS Global Learning Consortium (IMS GLC) is currently exploring the
types and extent of integrations between Library Systems and Learning
Management Systems / Course Management Systems / Virtual Learning
Environments. We believe that the proliferation of e-learning tools
and learning management systems (LMS) provides an opportunity for
academic libraries to dramatically increase their relevance to
students and faculty by allowing them to integrate their resources and
their information literacy expertise.

In order to identify current areas of integration as well as
integration planning, the IMS GLC Libraries Special Interest Group has
compiled a survey to gather information about current library work in
this area and we would like to invite you to participate in our survey.

It will take approximately 10 minutes to complete the questionnaire
and the survey is located at:http://imslibraries.questionpro.com/

Details about the survey results and discussion of Library integration
will be available on the IMS public forum located at: http://www.imsglobal.org/community/forum/categories.cfm?catid=91&entercat=y
You are invited to participate in the discussion.

We appreciate your support.

IMS Global Learning Consortium.
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[DG: Teaching & Learning] [libsakai] Nov 19: Library & Sakai 3 Integration Web Meeting

2009-11-17T05:56:17Z

Hello!

The Library & Sakai 3 Integration Project has completed a number of user interviews with various instructors at multiple different campuses to learn why and how they use scholarly resources in preparing and conducting their courses. In our Nov 19 web meeting, hear who we've been talking to and what we've learned. We will also discuss the process for getting this interview data organized and analyzed and share an updated project timeline.

An agenda for the meeting can be found at:
http://confluence.sakaiproject.org//x/ggoAB

The meeting is Thursday, Nov 19, from 11:30am to 1pm, Eastern using the Sakai002 Conference Bridge:
- Telephone: +1 812 856 7060
- Internet: 156.56.240.9 (via Polycom, XMeeting (Mac), Ekiga (Linux))
- Conference Code: 350#
- PIN: 72524#

Thanks,
Gaurav

[DG: Teaching & Learning] Sakai Teaching and Learning Report Out > Learning Capabilities Activity

2009-11-16T15:10:45Z

Greetings everyone,

I wanted to take a minute to briefly update folks on the recently work taking place in Sakai Teaching and Learning group (which now includes many from the UX and OSP worlds as well) and also note a couple of milestones that we've decided to target.

After a healthy discussion following the 10th International Sakai Conference in Boston this past July concerning how we might contribute to "instructional visioning" for Sakai 3, the group began an exercise started by David Goodrum to "vision", in simple terms, the types of learning capabilities we would like Sakai 3 to facilitate and support.

Over the past few weeks we have been documenting, from a user-centric perspective, these learning capabilities in a Google Spreadsheet which is now linked off the Teaching and Learning Confluence page (http://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/PED) and discussing related issues on our weekly calls.

===============
CALL TO ACTION
===============
We would welcome additional input from everyone and anyone in the community so please feel free to add to the spreadsheet (it is public). There are some basic guidelines as to what to enter in each column at the top of the spreadsheet. Just keep in mind that each capability should be expressed as a user-centric goal in simple terms. We're in a bit of a "free-for-all" mode right now so it is OK to just add whatever you think is appropriate. If you have questions please feel free to post them to our list.

=====================
FUTURE MILESTONES
=====================
We plan to continue to add to the Learning Capabilities spreadsheet for the next two weeks and then pause to assess our work and determine next steps. To this end, we have invited Clay Fenlason to attend our December 2, 2009 Teaching and Learning call (12 Noon EST) to participate in a debriefing exercise and provide additional input on how we might turn the current information into something more useful for him and the Sakai 3 design effort.

We will be having the call this week but will use it just to check in and discuss any questions about the work going on. I'll also be posting some reminders this week and next to encourage folks to continue to add to the spreadsheet (yes, I'm the official bugger).

That's all folks....

Josh

-----------------------------
Joshua Baron
Director, Academic Technology and eLearning
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York 12601
(845) 575-3623 (work)
Twitter: JoshBaron
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[DG: Teaching & Learning] QA testing season for 2.7 is open

2009-11-16T10:20:37Z

QA testing season for 2.7 is open

Hi potential QAérs,

It is QA season again for the 2.7 release and I am looking for people to actively help out. If you are interested you can sign up for the 2.7 cycle at: http://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/QA/QA+Testers+Wall

Testing and coordination resources can be found under: http://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/QA/2.7.0+Changes .
The 2.7.0-M1 milestone tag has been cut and deployment to QA servers is happening. A list of active QA server is mentioned at: http://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/QA/QA+Servers+-+Sakai+2.7 These pages will be actively updated in the coming days.

If you want to help out with testing and this is the first time, you may think that the process is daunting. You are always welcome to contact me directly (on this email address) for a quiet chat. Your help is most welcome.

I will be making contact with the testers mentioned for the 2.6 cycle to drum up support and positive energy. I will also be contacting tomorrow the hard workers who are responsible for particular area's of Sakai to collect testplans to place in a viewable location on Confluence.

Rutgers will be donating some QA resources for December and January. On behalf of the Sakai Foundation I would like to thank them for their efforts.

Thank for your help, community. Any questions, I am open for conversations.

Regards

Alan

Alan Berg
Interim QA Director - The Sakai Foundation

Senior Developer / Quality Assurance
Group Education and Research Services
Central Computer Services
University of Amsterdam

http://home.uva.nl/a.m.berg

Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] User Experience] Interesting blog post on CMS user interfaces

2009-11-15T15:59:55Z

Thanks for these links Joanna. I am curious to know more about the Tomorrow's Professor collaboration. It looks like a grass-roots thing, but it could have institutional support... Also, the second link took me to a very interesting student blog "Carolyn Blogs" (http://blog.carolynworks.com). Do you have any coordinated collection of such blogs? It might be interesting to collect them in a fashion similar to Planet Sakai.

Best, John

On 12 Nov 2009, at 22:39, Joanna Proulx wrote:

> Hi Daphne et al,
>
> As we focus, here at MIT, on the mental models of faculty with respect to their online teaching, there’s a constant effort to remember that any LMS has to be a two-way street. The students are partners in this process and their mental models matter equally to those of the faculty. If they are ignored, true learning is likely to be hampered if not arrested entirely. I have two examples to share by way of inveighling on behalf of the student perspective:
>
> http://tomprofblog.mit.edu/2009/10/13/974-online-learning-more-than-technical-savvy/
>
> We posit that readiness for online learning has less to do with students’ knowledge of technology and digital dexterity and more to do with their knowledge of how to learn and their motivation to engage fully in the process.
>
> The teacher in the learner-centered class is a designer of learning opportunities, one who sets the stage and then steps aside while the students engage in knowledge constructing activities.
>
> http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/11/09/2347215/Attack-of-the-PowerPoint-Wielding-Professors
>
> Cheers,
> joanna
>
>
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
> Joanna Proulx : Team Lead
> Interaction Development
> Content & Collaboration Services
> ..................................................
> MIT : IS&T : ISDA : CCS : ID
>
>
>
> On 11/3/09 1:16 PM, "Daphne Ogle" <daphne@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, thanks for sharing Michael. Mathieu's post makes me wonder if we have a good understanding of the multiple types of course/activity structures we need to support in Sakai 3? It seems Moodle handles the syllabus/time-based and topic-based structures which make sense. Are there others? Understanding these will be key to creating the right context, cues, flows to help faculty build there course space in ways that match their mental models and then represent the course in ways that make sense to students.
>
> -Daphne
>
> On Nov 3, 2009, at 6:21 AM, Plourde, Mathieu wrote:
>
> Funny that this thing has come to a full circle… Anyone remember VirtualU? The default course was a long table organized as a list of event with links to discussions and resources.
>
> I think the goal of that article was not to say that organizing your content in a calendar was the best way to think, but that the defaults are what most faculty will select.
>
> If Sakai 3’s default is to present multiple options in terms of course/activity structure, and can support faculty in choosing an appropriate one to start with, half the battle will be won.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> =================================
>
> Mathieu Plourde, MBA
> Project Leader, LMS/Instructional Designer
> IT-Client Support & Services
> mathieu@...
>
> =================================
>
> TOP LINKS:
>
> Technology Troubleshooting: http://www.udel.edu/help
> Sakai@UD Support and Training: http://www.udel.edu/sakai/training
>
> =================================
>
> From: sakai-ux-bounces@... [mailto:sakai-ux-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Jacques Raynauld
> Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 8:51 AM
> To: Sakai UX
> Cc: Michael Korcuska; pedagogy@... Learning
> Subject: Re: User Experience] Interesting blog post on CMS user interfaces
>
> I also agree. It is a very interesting article. I have always been struck by the Moodle first page template that naturally leads to a week or theme interpretation by users. I think it is one of the important factor that explains Moodle popularity. This is the kind of need we wanted to adress in Sakai/Open Syllabus ... but in a more semantic way than Moodle.
>
> Jacques Raynauld
> HEC Montréal
>
> -------- Message original --------
> Sujet : Re: [DG: User Experience] Interesting blog post on CMS user interfaces
> De : harriet@...
> Pour : Michael Korcuska <mkorcuska@...> <mailto:mkorcuska@...>
> Copie à : "pedagogy@... Learning" <mailto:pedagogy@...> <pedagogy@...> <mailto:pedagogy@...> , Sakai UX <sakai-ux@...> <mailto:sakai-ux@...>
> Date : 2009-11-03 04:58
>
> Very interesting - thanks Michael!
>
> There were a couple of paras that struck me particularly as relating to the
> possibilities for the new Sakai 3:
>
> "The buttons link to pages that simply provide a place to upload a document,
> which is exactly what most instructors do: upload word–processed files of their
> classroom materials. They are encouraged to “plug in” their content under the
> appropriate category instead of envisioning a translation of their individual
> pedagogical style into an online environment. Blackboard “tends to encourage a
> linear pathway through the content” [3], and its default is to support easy
> uploading and text entry to achieve that goal.
> The construction of the course syllabus is a familiar beginning point for most
> instructors, yet few CMSs consider this. It would be natural and useful for
> novice instructors to see a blank schedule into which they could create each
> week’s or unit’s activities, rather than a selection of pre–set buttons or
> links. Most professors think in terms of the semester, and how their
> pedagogical goals can be achieved within the context of time, rather than
> space. Some think in terms of topics they want to cover. Blackboard/WebCT’s
> default organization accepts neither of these approaches in its initial
> interface. It forces the instructor to think in terms of content types instead,
> breaking the natural structure of the semester, or of a list of topics. Again,
> we know that the setup can be customized with relative ease, by going to the
> Control Panel and selecting Manage Course Menu, then using Modify buttons. You
> could change all the course menu buttons into “Week 1”, “Week 2”, or organize
> by topic instead of content type. But few professors try that, or they assume
> that they can’t do it. Blackboard can be highly intimidating to learn, and may
> “seriously hinder” choices the faculty member makes while using the tool [4].
> Faculty are led by the interface of a CMS not only because they do not
> immediately see an alternative, but because the familiar signposts (the
> Syllabus button) imply a single way of completing the task (upload a document).
> Only the Moodle system provides a default setup that looks like a calendar-style
> syllabus ..."
>
> I'd agree very strongly with this statement about pedagogies, and the initial
> presentation of potential course structures, rather than tools, to the
> lecturer, seems to be something that Sakai 3 has the potential to support
>
>
> "Although it is an oversimplification, it is useful to separate course
> management systems into two types: Opt–In and Opt–Out. In an Opt–Out system
> (such as Blackboard) all the features are available by default and must be
> excluded to avoid confusing students. Opt–Out systems are most likely to
> overwhelm Web novices, because they present an array of tools, and the tendency
> is to reduce cognitive load by using the defaults. In an Opt–In system (such as
> Moodle), the instructor selects each activity and presentation factor from a
> menu list, effectively designing much of the interface for students. Fewer
> defaults are pre–set, forcing the instructor to think holistically about the
> class structure. Features such as chat, polls, and interactive lessons as
> options presented with the same weight as more traditional text–based
> resources. Thus there is less of an implication that presentation is key, and
> more of an implication that interactivity is important. In an Opt–In
> environment, the instructor makes choices about context on a macro level, and
> choices about features and tools on a micro level. This makes it possible to
> explore pedagogical options more freely"
>
> Again, perhaps a future strength of Sakai 3?
>
> Harriet
>
>
>
> Quoting Michael Korcuska <mkorcuska@...> <mailto:mkorcuska@...> :
>
>
> It's worth a read....
>
>
>
> http://firstmonday.org/htbin/cgiwrap/bin/ojs/index.php/fm/article/view/2530/2303
>
>
> --
> Michael Korcuska
> Executive Director, Sakai Foundation
> mkorcuska@...
> phone: +1 510-859-4247 (google voice)
> skype: mkorcuska
>
>
>
>
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>
> Daphne Ogle
> Senior Interaction Designer
> University of California, Berkeley
> Educational Technology Services
> daphne@...
> cell (925)348-4372
>
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Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [Portfolio] [Management] A manifesto for Grading and Rating in Sakai

2009-11-15T12:20:09Z

Dear Sean,

Yes, that's it - to assess how well students have learned educational self-direction (which I think is the long-range goal of most humanities education: the instructor desires ultimately to make him- or herself obsolete), one cannot only assign them specific goals to achieve, as the fact those goals WERE explicitly assigned means that completing them is not a self-directed process nor one that demonstrates self-direction. It's not that I think one can't assess how well a program in core humanities (or in any individual humanities field) is meeting the goal of giving students the capacity to direct their own intellectual lives. I believe one can, but that sharing discrete learning goals with students may not be the best way to do it. Rather, I imagine the way portfolios can best demonstrate the level and nature of a program/department's success in this fundamental area of autonomous learning is to give students enough self-presentational freedom so that assessors can gauge
the extent to which they have gone off the grid and begun, to quote Sir Philip Sidney, to range freely in the zodiac of their own wit.

I agree, too, that a major value of all assessment is its galvanizing effect on a faculty - the "discussion and eventual agreement about the program objectives" that you speak of, Sean. We're in the midst of that in my program, and it is inspiring serious conversations that have been long overdue. Indeed, I think there's a great distinction (again, speaking strictly for the humanities) between the purposes of creating learning goals to inform faculty practices and issuing them to students as the means by which they can measure their educational success. That's also why, excellent and well-thought out as the AAC&U goals may be, Wendy, and useful as they are as a starting point, I think individual faculties need to work for themselves through the question of what they are really trying to teach their students - in many cases, programs or departments want their learning goals to relate intimately to their mission statements and therefore to reflect what makes them distinctiv
e, what sets them apart from other programs. You're absolutely right that "the focus on assessment grows sharper every day," and that we must have as clear an idea as possible of what we are trying to teach and to assess. But in the case of the humanities, clarity is not identical with particularity - though of course there are certain definite skills one can articulate and assess fairly directly, the big, over-arching goal of determining whether students are becoming the agents of their own intellectual developments can't be assessed solely by prescribing a list of skills and content they are to master. You have to look at what they do when they have a (metaphorical) blank page in front of them.

If any of you will be at Marist on Dec 9th, I'm happy to continue the conversation there - it's been great for me to hear what the general slant of thinking is and to clarify my own ideas in taking part!

Yours,
Bob

Dr. Robert L Squillace
Assistant Dean for Academic Affairs
Liberal Studies Program
New York University
726 Broadway, 6th Floor
New York, NY 10003-9580
(212) 992-8735
rs84@...

----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Keesler <sean.keesler@...>
Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009 10:43 am
Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [Portfolio] [Management] A manifesto for Grading and Rating in Sakai
To: Robert Squillace <rs84@...>
Cc: Noah Botimer <botimer@...>, portfolio@..., pedagogy@...

> I see your point, Bob.
>
> When I was at Syracuse University, we provided a matrix that
> articulated the faculties conceptual framework around what they
> thought was important for graduates of the teacher preparation
> program. However, one of their goals was to encourage the students to
> begin to create their own framework for how they thought about the
> practice of teaching and to explain their own practice in their own
> terms. Assessing whether or not they did that was recognized as a
> difficult problem. You hope it happens without prompting, but once the
> prompt is there, it seems less authentic when performed (but is it
> really?). I am still working with them to develop their OSP
> implementation to address these concerns.
>
> Even so, their first stab at an agreed upon a framework for making
> decisions was seen as helpful to teach what a "conceptual framework"
> is to the students earlier in the program. It also catalyzed a
> discussion and eventual agreement about the program objectives amongst
> the faculty.
>
>
> Sean Keesler
> 130 Academy Street
> Manlius, New York 13104 USA
> 315-663-7756
> sean.keesler@...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Robert Squillace <rs84@...> wrote:
> > Hey All,
> >
> > First, please - Bob! I'm only "Dr Squillace" on my vita and in my
> signature line!
> >
> > Yes, I do think LMS-assisted, rubric-driven assessment of the kind
> you describe, where both students and faculty are aware of the
> prescribed learning goals that equate with success in the program, can
> have tremendous value - for a certain kind of program.
> >
> > Again taking an example like architecture, it could be a great
> benefit for students to know that both they and the program's success
> are ultimately going to be assessed on, e.g., the ability to predict
> how different building materials will react under different
> climatological conditions, the ability to design an airport terminal
> with all the required elements (that one got my sister-in-law--she
> forgot about the manager's office and wound up putting it in such a
> location that the airport manager would have had to climb over the
> baggage ramps to get in!), etc. Students could both be accountable
> and hold their professors accountable for learning what they needed to
> learn.
> >
> > But in a humanities program/major, the goal is not so much students
> demonstrating, for instance, the ability to read Shakespeare and
> understand the changing cultural position of his work. The mark of
> success for a humanities program is students developing the curiosity,
> e. g., to read Shakespeare and Shakespeare criticism on their own
> because they themselves want to understand his cultural position. The
> goal is self-directed learning - what we've come in our program to
> call "promoting student agency."
> >
> > Assessing self-direction via rubrics transparent to students and
> faculty is problematic. You can't use as a program rubric "student
> must demonstrate that he or she has seen and understood a Shakespeare
> play on his or her own," because then they aren't seeing it on their
> own. This is a central dilemma for humanities education - you do need
> to articulate specific learning goals for basic program assessment
> purposes, but at the same time you need to keep in mind that these
> goals are all means to the greater end of promoting self-directed
> education. Even when sharing a syllabus with students, instructors
> need to be very careful that they don't confuse the means (success at
> what's demanded on paper A and presentation B) for the end (being able
> to fend for themselves educationally). It's an issue we face
> constantly - the "what do I need to do to get an A?" question.
> >
> > Anyway, I'm new here - I'm just sharing the view from my particular
> perspective!
> >
> > Best,
> > Bob
> >
> > Dr. Robert L Squillace
> > Assistant Dean for Academic Affairs
> > Liberal Studies Program
> > New York University
> > 726 Broadway, 6th Floor
> > New York, NY 10003-9580
> > (212) 992-8735
> > rs84@...
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Sean Keesler <sean.keesler@...>
> > Date: Tuesday, November 3, 2009 0:29 am
> > Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [Portfolio] [Management] A
> manifesto for Grading and Rating in Sakai
> > To: Robert Squillace <rs84@...>
> > Cc: Noah Botimer <botimer@...>,
> management@..., portfolio@...,
> "pedagogy@... Learning" <pedagogy@...>
> >
> >> It sounds like Dr. Squillace agrees that the ability to create, share
> >> and use rubrics in an LMS could be a good thing for some programs.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure about that I would agree that assessment of portfolios
> >> (liberal arts or otherwise) means that their should be no rubrics
> >> involved. If rubrics were used it may make the assessment process
> >> transparent to students and document consensus amongst the faculty
> >> about what they will use as the metric for distinguishing one level
> of
> >> "understanding" (in this case) from another. I think that is what the
> >> VALUE project is all about.
> >>
> >> Sean
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 2, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Robert Squillace <rs84@...> wrote:
> >> > Speaking as an administrator in a Liberal Arts program currently
> >> engaged in a major assessment effort (and also sitting on the
> >> University's assessment committee), I just wanted to note that I
> see a
> >> major difference in using an LMS to help assess a pre-professional
> >> curriculum as opposed to a liberal arts curriculum. For
> >> pre-professional programs, the assessment measures can be pretty
> >> direct - if 90% of your students pass the brutal architecture
> >> certifying exam on the first try, for instance, it's clear you're
> >> doing a very good job. Assessing the success of a liberal arts
> >> education is harder. An LMS can, of course, allow you to disseminate
> >> rubrics more readily than you could without an LMS configured for that
> >> purpose, and rubrics do allow a program to determine what students
> are
> >> learning without quite so many variations in interpretation as you'd
> >> find between the grades instructors give in their individual courses
> >> based on their individual senses of what should count.
> >> >
> >> > But the central goal of liberal education is to develop
> >> self-understanding (and understanding in general), which is extremely
> >> hard to measure; it's the very thing that can't be reduced to rubrics,
> >> which of necessity focus on achievements that different observers can
> >> agree are demonstrably present in the piece(s) of work being assessed.
> >> You can assess whether students can tell the difference between poems
> >> by John Donne and Rumi, but it's much harder to find a concrete
> >> manifestation of whether you have given them the ability meaningfully
> >> to encounter a poem on their own. You can, of course, develop some
> >> sort of program-wide exit assignment that, e. g., asks students to
> >> analyze a poem they've never read before, but all that will tell you
> >> is how successful they have been in adopting the rhetorical stances
> of
> >> your program, not the extent to which your program has influenced the
> >> way they think in situations when they know they are not being
> >> directly observed and judged.
> >> >
> >> > I see great potential for using an LMS with a robust portfolio tool
> >> to develop substantially different and possibly far superior means
> of
> >> assessment for liberal arts programs. Rubrics are applied to the end
> >> product of learning on the assumption that the process of change that
> >> led to those final products, the growth of the student's mind, is not
> >> available itself for observation. But with a strong portfolio tool,
> >> one in which students do not merely stockpile the precise items the
> >> program prescribes but control the type of items they save and the
> >> manner in which they are presented, one might have a window into the
> >> development of each student's mind. In order to configure an
> >> open-ended portfolio, students need to practice taxonomy, placing
> >> items in categories that reflect the way they think about the
> >> relations between them. If such a portfolio is versioned and makes
> >> space for student reflection, it becomes possible to see how a
> >> student's way of thinking and modes of understa
> >> > nding grow (or fail to) over time; if such a portfolio is allowed
> to
> >> grow organically, the very sorts of items students choose to save and
> >> comment upon, the ways they choose to represent themselves, can
> tell a
> >> program a great deal about what is and is not having an influence on
> >> students over time, what is and is not sticking. In other words, a
> >> program can look directly at how a student's work has changed over
> his
> >> or her time at the University, see both what they produced and what
> >> they thought about it at a metacognitive level, and get a sense of
> the
> >> real difference what they teach is making. I think we've always
> >> wanted to see how students ways of thinking change over time; it was
> >> just never practical in a world of discrete courses in which the work
> >> of one term was basically wiped clean to start the next.
> >> >
> >> > Anyway, Lucy Appert, Barbra Mack, and I, as well as many colleagues
> >> at NYU, are working along these lines, and would be curious to see
> >> what people think.
> >> >
> >> > Yours,
> >> > Bob Squillace
> >> >
> >> > Dr. Robert L Squillace
> >> > Assistant Dean for Academic Affairs
> >> > Liberal Studies Program
> >> > New York University
> >> > 726 Broadway, 6th Floor
> >> > New York, NY 10003-9580
> >> > (212) 992-8735
> >> > rs84@...
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: Sean Keesler <sean.keesler@...>
> >> > Date: Friday, October 30, 2009 9:50 pm
> >> > Subject: Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [Portfolio] [Management] A
> >> manifesto for Grading and Rating in Sakai
> >> > To: Noah Botimer <botimer@...>
> >> > Cc: management@...,
> >> portfolio@..., "pedagogy@...
> >> Learning" <pedagogy@...>
> >> >
> >> >> Trying again...
> >> >>
> >> >> As I look over the "capabilities spreadsheet", I see a lot of focus
> >> on
> >> >> the interactions between instructors and students...
> >> >> "What do *I* need to do with *my* students?"
> >> >> One thing is "grade" their work."
> >> >>
> >> >> I think that there is a piece that sits on top of the core capability
> >> >> to rate/grade that relates to "management of learning"...which I
> know
> >> >> isn't typically thought of as a key design focus of an LMS, but
> may
> >> be
> >> >> the concern of admins....
> >> >> "How do *I* (the program chair, department head, dean, provost)
> want
> >> >> to encourage/influence/support the teaching behavior of our faculty?"
> >> >> One thing is to encourage/require/foster the development/use of
> >> >> standards/rubrics in grading/rating.
> >> >>
> >> >> The idea of the application of "rubrics" (which arguably is the
> >> >> difference between an academic assessment system and any arbitrary
> >> >> rating system) is a feature that seems like it would fit into this
> >> >> latter category of possible LMS capabilities.
> >> >>
> >> >> There may be other capabilities that sit outside the
> >> >> "instructor-student" relationship. It may need to be another "tab"
> >> on
> >> >> that spreadsheet.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Sean Keesler
> >> >> 130 Academy Street
> >> >> Manlius, New York 13104 USA
> >> >> 315-663-7756
> >> >> sean.keesler@...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:01 AM, Sean Keesler
> >> >> <sean.keesler@...> wrote:
> >> >> > One of the things that are crucial to making meaning out of the
> >> >> > assessment process (and the grades/ratings that are the record
> of
> >> that
> >> >> > process) are sets of rubrics that document HOW rating/grading
> should
> >> >> > be done or has been done.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > How you do or DO NOT manage and/or mandate the application of
> rubrics
> >> >> > to the assessment of student work is a local decision that may
> vary
> >> >> > within and amongst faculty members, departments to entire colleges
> >> >> > with the university, but the capability to author, share, modify
> >> and
> >> >> > find rubrics suitable for a any one application would seem to
> me
> >> to
> >> >> be
> >> >> > a missing piece of John's manifesto and one that would make
> the idea
> >> >> > of assessment a core piece of Sakai 3.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It has a lot of impact on the deployment of ePortfolios where
> multiple
> >> >> > faculty (perhaps from different departments or colleges) could
> be
> >> >> > asked to blindly assess a collection of student work through their
> >> >> > lens of specialization. Providing guidance for these faculty
> to HOW
> >> >> to
> >> >> > grade a portfolio gives the entire process more validity.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Rubrics are also a vehicle for a university to articulate how
> it
> >> >> > differentiates it's standards for excellence from other colleges
> >> or
> >> >> > for showing that program X complies with Association Y's expectations.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > A while ago I jotted down some different ways that rubrics might
> >> be
> >> >> > managed in an LMS. I believe that issues like the Spellings
> >> >> > Commission Report and the No Child Left Behind fiasco (K12)
> and so
> >> >> > they may be receiving more attention here than elsewhere. It may
> >> be
> >> >> > interesting to see what patterns exist in the community around
> the
> >> >> > application and use of rubrics.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 1. Managed assessments:
> >> >> > Some rubrics are rather specific to (and must be tied to) a particular
> >> >> > assessment item and must be approved by an "assessment coordinator"
> >> >> > for educational QA purposes as part of a larger assessment system
> >> >> > strategy. Changing the assessment/rubric in this case involves
> more
> >> >> > than just the teacher.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 2. Generally reusable (but unchangeable) rubrics
> >> >> > Some rubrics may be general purpose rubrics that are NOT tied
> to
> >> an
> >> >> > assessment, but the dissemination of these approved rubrics may
> >> be a
> >> >> > strategy of an institution to push forward an agenda of best practice
> >> >> > for assessment by providing a handy reference library of general
> >> >> > purpose writing, mathematics and science rubrics (for
> example). While
> >> >> > the choice whether or not to use one of these "off the shelf"
> rubrics
> >> >> > (and which one) is left to the teacher, providing some
> >> information to
> >> >> > the teacher about the schools expectations of its students at
> >> >> > different stages (and perhaps suggesting an appropriate rubric
> for
> >> >> > this grade level/stage of development) would make this service
> more
> >> >> > valuable.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 3. Reusable rubric templates:
> >> >> > Similar to the above, but the library of "off the shelf" rubrics
> >> are
> >> >> > merely starting points. There is not a priority to ensure that
> >> >> > everyone is doing assessment the exact same way. When a
> teacher uses
> >> >> > one of these rubrics, they can easily edit the performance indicators
> >> >> > to suit their needs and create a new rubric, just for their new
> >> >> > assignment. (Rubristar approach)
> >> >> >
> >> >> > 4. Sharing of rubrics:
> >> >> > This is a bottom up approach to establishing "best practice".
> As
> >> the
> >> >> > teachers create their own rubrics against goals, they have the
> >> >> > opportunity to publish them as part of the "reusable" library
> so
> >> other
> >> >> > teachers can use/edit/republish them. (Someone?)
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sean Keesler
> >> >> > 130 Academy Street
> >> >> > Manlius, New York 13104 USA
> >> >> > 315-663-7756
> >> >> > sean.keesler@...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 11:07 AM, Noah Botimer
> >> <botimer@...> wrote:
> >> >> >> Hello John,
> >> >> >> Thank you for the rather comprehensive narrative. I believe that
> >> >> these are
> >> >> >> important for the archives as we change our ideas and
> software over
> >> >> time.
> >> >> >> They leave a better historical record of our state of mind at
> >> any given
> >> >> >> point than a pile of JIRA tickets. Our successive approximation
> >> is
> >> >> better
> >> >> >> validated when we have a record of these richer "data" points.
> >> >> >> Now, more on task...
> >> >> >> This is a fair account from my perspective, and is especially
> >> >> important in
> >> >> >> that it carves out a first-class place for two things that have
> >> been
> >> >> >> historical weaknesses:
> >> >> >> 1. The ability to treat various artifacts individually and
> in collections,
> >> >> >> consistently, across types of "stuff" and activity (e.g.,
> >> >> reflection vs.
> >> >> >> feedback vs. grading)
> >> >> >> 2. The ability to retrieve meaningful performance (or other)
> data
> >> >> in detail
> >> >> >> and aggregate, consistently, and without extensive one-off programming
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Interestingly enough, these two areas are what I've spent four
> >> >> years working
> >> >> >> on -- so I suppose it's not surprising that I call them out.
> I
> >> >> mention them
> >> >> >> as weaknesses from my experience. It has been difficult to combine
> >> >> >> assignment information with student-crafted presentation. It
> has
> >> been
> >> >> >> difficult to combine course-based (assignment, quiz, etc.) data
> >> and
> >> >> >> program-based activity (annual review, capstone, student teaching
> >> >> >> performance) and map them to curricular goals and reports...
> >> >> >> Please do not take my comments as complaints of where we are.
> What
> >> >> is more
> >> >> >> important is that I see this narrative as recognizing these
> >> >> activities not,
> >> >> >> as we have, as things that can be bolted on post-construction
> but,
> >> >> rather,
> >> >> >> as shaping the core provisions of a meaningful academic and collaborative
> >> >> >> platform. We are, as a community, much more aware of our successes
> >> >> and
> >> >> >> shortfalls. This, I feel, is very healthy and inspiring.
> >> >> >> I believe this discussion is going in the right direction and
> >> >> sincerely hope
> >> >> >> that we can find the energy to support it.
> >> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> >> -Noah
> >> >> >> On Oct 16, 2009, at 6:02 AM, John Norman wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I have collected my thoughts around grading and rating in Sakai.
> >> I
> >> >> offer
> >> >> >> them now partly because I feel ready, partly because there
> are open
> >> >> >> questions about Gradebook in Sakai 3 and partly because we have
> >> >> just had a
> >> >> >> discussion in which I suggest it is hard to break things out
> of
> >> a coherent
> >> >> >> Sakai 3 project. If accepted as is, this represents a logical
> area
> >> >> of
> >> >> >> activity than can readily be envisioned as a standalone activity
> >> -
> >> >> maybe
> >> >> >> even a separate product.
> >> >> >> First of all I'd like to suggest that grading is a subset of
> a general
> >> >> >> rating and feedback activity. Many artifacts can be rated, from
> >> instructor
> >> >> >> performance during a course (course evaluation), through quality
> >> of
> >> >> a
> >> >> >> teaching asset or exercise (rating) to assessing the quality
> of
> >> a student
> >> >> >> portfolio (feedback) and assessing the performance of a student
> >> on
> >> >> an
> >> >> >> assignment or test (grading). The common pattern is: an artifact
> >> is
> >> >> produced
> >> >> >> by one individual (or group) and some value judgement is recorded
> >> >> by one or
> >> >> >> more other people.
> >> >> >> The process by which an artifact is judged can be simple or
> >> >> complex. Complex
> >> >> >> processes include multi-stage workflows where raw scores are
> >> >> obtained by one
> >> >> >> process and raw scores moderated to a final grade by another
> >> >> process. I see
> >> >> >> plagiarism detection as one particular wrinkle in such a workflow.
> >> >> >> I suggest that (nearly) everything in Sakai should be
> >> >> ratable/gradable. I
> >> >> >> will refer to the ratable/gradable elements as "artifacts" to
> >> >> indicate that
> >> >> >> they may not be 'technical elements' but some aggregation of
> technical
> >> >> >> elements that makes sense for rating/grading purposes. Moreover,
> >> we
> >> >> should
> >> >> >> not forget that some of the artifacts that are rated/graded may
> >> not
> >> >> be
> >> >> >> electronic and the 'artifact' may be a proxy for some real world
> >> >> activity or
> >> >> >> output that cannot be captured electronically.
> >> >> >> The activity of rating/grading is essentially a human judgement.
> >> >> Tests and
> >> >> >> quizzes represent a subset of this situation where the human
> >> >> codifies their
> >> >> >> judgement into rules applied by the testing engine and the test
> >> engine
> >> >> >> automates the application of scores. The Quiz with the
> student answers
> >> >> >> represents the artifact and the raw scores and/or processed
> >> grade represents
> >> >> >> the judgement. The people involved in rating/grading can be anyone:
> >> >> >> students, teachers, peers.
> >> >> >> The artifact to be rated or graded may not be stable over time,
> >> in
> >> >> which
> >> >> >> case a 'snapshot' of some kind is desirable for audit purposes.
> >> An
> >> >> example
> >> >> >> might be the state of my personal portfolio pages on the
> first day
> >> >> of May,
> >> >> >> when they are declared to be assessed. I may wish to continue
> maintaining
> >> >> >> the pages after the assessment, but their status at the time
> of
> >> >> assessing is
> >> >> >> worth recording. A different example might be my performance
> in
> >> a
> >> >> piece of
> >> >> >> drama. I have no idea how this would be recorded in the real
> world,
> >> >> but I
> >> >> >> imagine that the grader might write down some critique/commentary
> >> >> and then
> >> >> >> assign a grade. The critique/commentary would become the
> >> recorded artifact
> >> >> >> (in some places there might be a video recording but I don't
> assume
> >> >> that)
> >> >> >> and separately there would be a grade/score/rating. Teacher
> >> >> performance in
> >> >> >> class evaluated by students is not far from this model. The
> >> >> questions in the
> >> >> >> evaluation form might be considered the rubric for the teachers
> >> performance.
> >> >> >> In this world, we would want a flexible reporting platform that
> >> >> allows grade
> >> >> >> information (including an archive of artifact snapshots) to be
> >> >> collected and
> >> >> >> analysed (and sometimes further processed). I suggest we think
> >> of using
> >> >> >> something like BIRT to create this flexible reporting environment
> >> >> and then
> >> >> >> consider certain predefined views of the data and derived reports
> >> >> from the
> >> >> >> data as the essence of "GradeBook" functionality. i.e. "GradeBook"
> >> >> is a
> >> >> >> subset of functionality from a powerful reporting environment. Ultimately
> >> >> >> "the official record" will need to be updated.
> >> >> >> I think it is really important to anticipate that some of the
> >> >> artifacts to
> >> >> >> be graded may come from outside Sakai and Sakai needs to be able
> >> to
> >> >> accept
> >> >> >> artifacts for grading and also to accept graded artifacts for
> >> >> inclusion in
> >> >> >> reporting. I see two main implementation options for Sakai
> >> >> >> 1. A Sakai service with published external entry points (Moodle/Mahara
> >> >> >> integration would be an example)
> >> >> >> 2. A new Sakai 'product' which would be an institutional grading/rating
> >> >> >> service that receives artifacts from a number of places (including
> >> >> the Sakai
> >> >> >> Course Management System) and manages the grading/rating workflow
> >> >> into a
> >> >> >> flexible reporting system that creates a complete record for
> an
> >> individual
> >> >> >> and allows this information to be displayed in a number of
> >> places (including
> >> >> >> Sakai CMS)
> >> >> >> A strong attraction of the second model is that it fits with
> the
> >> >> idea that
> >> >> >> assessing performance is a core competence of the institution
> that
> >> >> preceded
> >> >> >> and will survive the CMS, but which is unlikely to be developed
> >> for
> >> >> us by
> >> >> >> the commercial world. It could also represent a shared
> service with
> >> >> a
> >> >> >> student information system.
> >> >> >> Having set out my manifesto, it is interesting to consider what
> >> the
> >> >> product
> >> >> >> council might do with it. From my personal perspective it would
> >> be
> >> >> great if
> >> >> >> we adopted it as the Sakai manifesto (following review/revision)
> >> >> and called
> >> >> >> for developments to align with it, but there is an open question
> >> regarding
> >> >> >> the value of 'adoption' of the manifesto if nobody is interested
> >> in
> >> >> >> developing products/code that address the manifesto.
> >> >> >> John
> >> >> >> PS I have forwarded this message that I saw as I came in this
> morning
> >> >> >> because in my mind it illustrates an early step in the direction
> >> of
> >> >> my
> >> >> >> manifesto, although I have taken it much further (perhaps unrecognisably).
> >> >> >> Begin forwarded message:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> From: David Horwitz <david.horwitz@...>
> >> >> >> Date: 16 October 2009 09:29:58 BST
> >> >> >> To: sakai-dev <sakai-dev@...>,
> >> >> >> production@..., announcements@...
> >> >> >> Subject: [Announcements] 2.7 Framework: commons and edu-servise
> >> 1.0.0-beta01
> >> >> >> released
> >> >> >> Hi All,
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> We're proud to announce the first of 2 framework releases in
> >> >> support of the
> >> >> >> upcoming 2.7 release. The creation of these bundles aims to
> >> >> rationalize our
> >> >> >> dependency tree and enable a more modular approach to Sakai releases.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Commons 1.0.0-beta01
> >> >> >> The commons package contains common services depended on by a
> >> >> number of
> >> >> >> Sakai tools, but outside the scope of the Kernel. The services
> >> >> included are:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> SakaiPerson Service (profile data)
> >> >> >> Type Service
> >> >> >> privacy service
> >> >> >> archive service
> >> >> >> import service
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The project site can be viewed at:
> >> >> >> http://source.sakaiproject.org/release/common/1.0.0-beta01/
> >> >> >> (Note experimental site no Sakai skins etc.)
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Edu-Services 1.0.0-beta01
> >> >> >> Edu-services contain core shared services that support teaching
> >> and
> >> >> learning
> >> >> >> functionality in Sakai. It contains:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Course management service
> >> >> >> Gradebook service
> >> >> >> Sections service
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The project site can be viewed at:
> >> >> >> http://source.sakaiproject.org/release/edu-services/1.0.0-beta01/
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> announcements mailing list
> >> >> >> announcements@...
> >> >> >> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/announcements
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
> >> >> >> announcements-unsubscribe@... with a subject
> >> of
> >> >> >> "unsubscribe"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> management mailing list
> >> >> >> management@...
> >> >> >> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/management
> >> >> >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to management-unsubscribe@...
> >> >> >> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> portfolio mailing list
> >> >> >> portfolio@...
> >> >> >> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/portfolio
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to portfolio-unsubscribe@...
> >> >> >> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> pedagogy mailing list
> >> >> pedagogy@...
> >> >> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy
> >> >>
> >> >> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
> >> >> pedagogy-unsubscribe@... with a subject of "unsubscribe"
> >> >
> >> >
> >

[DG: Teaching & Learning] Advanced Sakai Portfolio Training at Marist College

2009-11-13T10:32:14Z

My apologies for the multiple list postings, I just wanted to make sure that the community was aware of this opportunity. - Josh

Marist College is hosting an advanced Sakai portfolio training on our campus in Poughkeepsie, New York on December 10-11, 2009.

We have tried to keep costs low to just cover expenses: $750 per attendee for the two days training, including lunch and refreshments. We have 10 attendees so far and are capping it at 20, so it will be very intimate and focused experience. To register, please email nate.angell@... to reserve your spot and arrange payment details.

The training will be led by Sean Keesler and Janice Smith of Three Canoes, whose expertise is based on years of successfully implementing portfolios in a variety of educational contexts. Sean and Janice offer a functional and technical training package that has proven successful in numerous venues and attends to the individual needs and learning styles of each participant.

The training follows a free, part-day general interest K-20 portfolio Innovations event at Marist that will take place from 11am-4pm, December 9, 2009. We encourage training participants to attend the Innovations event as an opportunity to meet portfolio practitioners from other institutions and engage with portfolios from institutional and functional perspectives.
http://www.rsmart.com/event/marist-colleges-innovations-eportfolios-transforming-k-20-educational-experience

Training Prerequisites

A working understanding of XML, XSL and XSD.
A computer with OxygenXML installed (the trial version is fine) or another XML IDE of your choice. The instructors will be using OxygenXML.
A sakai instance to work on. A QA server, free Try Sakai account or your own server would work. The instructors will be working with Sakai 2.6, but versions back as far as Sakai 2.4 should present no significant issues.

Training Agenda

Spend two concentrated days acquiring understanding and expertise in Sakai portfolio tools, data structures and how they work together to enact portfolio experiences. The goal of this training is to promote self-sufficiency in using Sakai portfolio tools for specific institutional purposes.

Desired participant outcomes include:

An overall understanding of how the Sakai portfolio tool suite can be customized to accomplish a range of educational purposes.
Enhanced expertise in the use of the XML stack to build portfolio data structures.
Success in creating portfolio forms using Form Builder, XML schema in Oxygen, and custom form renderers.
Step-by-step experience in building a portfolio template using a pre-prepared generic design that can be extended to match specific institutional needs.
Integration of portfolio knowledge and skills into strategic planning for specific institutional purposes.
Significant process in developing a portfolio template tailored to the needs of each participating institution.

Training Schedule

12/10 Morning: Functional and technical overview of the portfolio tool suite; planning your portfolio implementation.
12/10 Afternoon: Updating your expertise in using XML and Oxygen; creating forms with Form Builder and as XML schema in Oxygen.
12/11 Morning: Building a portfolio template using Oxygen and a pre-prepared template design that can be modified to meet your institutional needs.
12/11 Afternoon: Integrating portfolio knowledge and skills to build a portfolio template for your institution.

-----------------------------
Joshua Baron
Director, Academic Technology and eLearning
Marist College
Poughkeepsie, New York 12601
(845) 575-3623 (work)
Twitter: JoshBaron
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[DG: Teaching & Learning] link to a feature article in the eLearn Magazine about synchronous and asynchronous use of Sakai at CSU

2009-11-12T18:05:49Z

Colleagues

Below a link to a feature article in the eLearn Magazine about synchronous and asynchronous use of Sakai at CSU that might be of interest to the community:

http://bit.ly/3UV3gp

Regards

Philip
.....................................
Dr Philip Uys

[DG: Teaching & Learning] Call for award committee members

2009-11-12T12:15:26Z

Subject: Call for award committee members

The Sakai Teaching and Learning Group is forming the 2010 Award Committee to oversee this year’s Teaching with Sakai Innovation Award. Each of the past two years we’ve had a strong applicant pool and selected two outstanding finalists. If you missed the winners’ 2009 presentations in Boston, you can watch Andrea Crampton at http://www.vimeo.com/5610058 and Edith Sheffer at http://www.vimeo.com/5623121.

If you would like to view last year's entries they are available on the OpenEdPractices.org web site http://openedpractices.org/courses. The evaluation rubric used for the award is located at http://openedpractices.org/files/TWSIA_Rubric.pdf.

We hope to continue the success of 2008 and 2009 and are looking for committee members that represent many different groups within our community, so please don’t hesitate to sign up even if you don’t have a teaching and learning background. Please contact Kate Ellis (kdellis@...) or Susan Roig (susan.roig@...) if you are interested in working with us.

Thank you for your support,

Sue Roig TWSIA 2010 Committee Co-Chair Director Academic Technology Claremont Graduate University SunGard * Higher Education 150 E. Tenth Street, Claremont, CA 91711 Tel 909-607-8412 * Fax 909-607-7285 susan.roig@... www.sungardhe.com

Kate Ellis  TWSIA 2010 Committee Co-Chair  Indiana University Bloomington Instructional Technology Consultant  Teaching and Learning Technologies Center Wells Library 305 West Tower  812-855-9024 kdellis@...  http://www.indiana.edu/~tltc  

[DG: Teaching & Learning] Quick Poll: Apple solution for Podcasting?

2009-11-12T08:19:37Z

This message (and attachments) is subject to restrictions and a disclaimer. Please refer to http://www.unisa.ac.za/disclaimer for full details.

Hi Guys

I'd greatly appreciate your inputs on this quick poll:

NUL return is also valuable.

Who is using the Apple solution for Podcasting at their Schools:
(Y/N answer is fine)

Institution:
End-to-end solution:
Video/sound capturing/editing/authoring:
Video/sound encoding:
Video/sound distribution:
Currently in production:
Planning for future:
Integrated with Sakai:

Optional questions (if you have time):

Alternative solution used: ................
Number of users:
Staff: ................
Students: ................

Why Apple/not Apple: ................

If I receive adequate feedback I'll capture it in a table and post the
results f.y.i.

Thanks in advance.

Deon

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Deon van der Merwe

Acting Executive Director: ICT

Tel: (012) 429-3838

Fax: (012) 429-3837

Mail: dvanderm@...

Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [Using Sakai] Reminder > Today's Sakai Teaching and Learning Call

2009-11-11T08:43:55Z

I'll take minutes today. And hope that we can spread this duty around.

Josh Baron wrote:

>
> Folks,
>
> We'll be having our weekly call today at 12 noon EDT (call in
> information below).
>
> I would like to take just 5 minutes at the start of the call to
> update everyone on the Teaching with Sakai Innovation Award as it was
> officially announced at EDUCAUSE last week. Sue Roig and Kate Ellis
> will be co-chairing the Award Committee and are looking for folks to
> work with them.
>
> The only other agenda item I had in mind was to check in on the work
> going on in the Learning Capabilities Google Spreadsheet (see link
> below). As per our discussion last week, we need to start to think
> about when we want to take a "pause" in gathering input and begin to
> look at organizing things. The logistics of how we do this
> organization also need to be considered.
>
> Finally, I would like to see if there might be a volunteer who could
> help take minutes during the call on the Confluence page. I've found
> it increasingly difficult to get the time to post the notes I've
> taken and need some help to get this done on a regular basis. I
> think this is important as those who cannot join the call often use
> the minutes to see what was discussed. Any takers?
>
> Thanks, Josh
>
>

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
>
<https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en>

>
>
> Calls are currently taking place every Wednesday at 12:00 Noon ET
> (New York, USA). To participate:
>
> * Dial 1-888-447-7153 (International callers: 1-719-387-1138) * Enter
> in passcode: 917798 (the hit #) * Listen to music until "moderator"
> starts the call * Need help? Call tech support at 1-877-807-0970
>
>
> ----------------------------- Joshua Baron Director, Academic
> Technology and eLearning Marist College Poughkeepsie, New York 12601
> (845) 575-3623 (work) Twitter: JoshBaron

--
Robin Hill, Ph.D. hill@... 307-766-5499
Instructional Computing Services http://www.uwyo.edu/ctl
Ellbogen Center for Teaching and Learning University of Wyoming

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[DG: Teaching & Learning] Reminder > Today's Sakai Teaching and Learning Call

2009-11-11T08:38:59Z

Folks,

We'll be having our weekly call today at 12 noon EDT (call in information below).

I would like to take just 5 minutes at the start of the call to update everyone on the Teaching with Sakai Innovation Award as it was officially announced at EDUCAUSE last week. Sue Roig and Kate Ellis will be co-chairing the Award Committee and are looking for folks to work with them.

The only other agenda item I had in mind was to check in on the work going on in the Learning Capabilities Google Spreadsheet (see link below). As per our discussion last week, we need to start to think about when we want to take a "pause" in gathering input and begin to look at organizing things. The logistics of how we do this organization also need to be considered.

Finally, I would like to see if there might be a volunteer who could help take minutes during the call on the Confluence page. I've found it increasingly difficult to get the time to post the notes I've taken and need some help to get this done on a regular basis. I think this is important as those who cannot join the call often use the minutes to see what was discussed. Any takers?

Thanks, Josh

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en

Calls are currently taking place every Wednesday at 12:00 Noon ET (New York, USA). To participate:

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[DG: Teaching & Learning] Extended Matching Item questions - feedback wanted

2009-11-09T07:38:38Z

Hi all,

To support work underway to improve computer-based assessment in our Faculty of Health Sciences, UCT is embarking on implementing support in Tests & Quizzes for Extended Matching Items (EMIs, aka R-type MCQs).

The JIRA for tracking this work is http://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-17243 (a more detailed spec will appear there within a week or so).

There are a number of variations and details in EMIs which are non-obvious and we're looking for anyone else with an interest in using EMIs in Sakai, or with experience of using EMIs in other platforms that support them explicitly.

Here are some articles on EMIs if you haven't come across them before:

http://scholar.lib.vt.edu/ejournals/JVME/V20-3/wilson.html
http://www.bioscience.heacademy.ac.uk/journal/vol1/beej-1-2.aspx
http://pb.rcpsych.org/cgi/content/full/27/6/230
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_matching_items

Regards
Stephen

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Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [WG: Accessibility] [Management] Fwd: Sakai 3 Capabilities and Accessibility

2009-11-06T08:44:58Z

Mike,
I'm not sure that I came to same conclusion by the end of the meeting.

We did hear very compelling first-person experiences that stated that
A) TinyMCE was still better overall to CKeditor, and B) that the
overhead of learning and remembering text-based markup was less
onerous than the constant context switching required to use a rich-
text editor.

On point B, I'm still very concerned about two issues that came up
yesterday: markup formats are hard to learn and remember and each one
is different. Learning and remembering one markup language is fine if
you use it often but if you're a casual user then it's a pretty steep
learning curve. If you use more than one then you not only have learn
each one and remember it, but you have to then remember which
environment you're in and which one to apply.

But perhaps I am being too cautious... users with disabilities are a
hardy and dedicated lot -- they have to be to succeed -- and when you
live in a world with out visual clues there are many things that you
routinely have to remember. As a sighted user, I continually stand in
awe each time I watch someone use a screen reader; what a convoluted
and complex interface just to interact with the complex and convoluted
interfaces that sighted users must navigate.

I'd like to hear from more folks in the accessibility community on
both A and B.

My own personal opinion is that the GUI should be the default. It is
still better for most users. But switching to the text-based editor
should be very easy to find and easy to do and must be sticky, either
through a cookie or (ideally) through a user preference.

My two cents,
Eli

On Nov 6, 2009, at 7:27 AM, Michael S Elledge wrote:

> Hi Eli (and everyone)--
>
> It sounds like providing a text-based editor (with markdown or wiki
> markup) and using TinyMC as the rich text editor (rather than
> CKeditor) is the way to go, per our conference call yesterday on
> accessibility, Indiana University's testing and John Norman's
> comments about Sakai 3 plans (to replace FCK with Tiny).
>
> I wonder if we shouldn't make the text-based editor the default,
> with rich text editing the option, instead of the other way around.
> Do we know often a rich text editor is used and needed?
>
> What do you think?
>
> Mike
>
> Daphne Ogle wrote:
>> On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:10 AM, Eli Cochran wrote:
>>
>>
>>> But really, all we really need are simply stated accessibility goals
>>> for Sakai 3.
>>>
>> We started a new sheet for usability/design goals. They aren't
>> pedagogical goals yet in discussion we felt we didn't want lose
>> the ideas. I think accessibility goals would fit nicely on that
>> sheet too.
>>
>> -Daphne
>>
>>> - Eli
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:34 AM, kamann@... wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I was on the T&L call where people were talking about this Learning
>>>> Capabilities matrix
>>>> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
>>>>
>>>> Clay sent a notes saying the list started out around learning and
>>>> teaching goals, but there were a few entries that jumped ahead to
>>>> the technnology like "Allow me to listen to class readings with a
>>>> screen reader." This was written from the perspective a persona
>>>> from
>>>> the Fluid project with low vision. We were struggling with what the
>>>> goal during the call and I'm not sure we got there, but we knew her
>>>> goal wasn't to use a screen reader. On further reflection, the
>>>> visually impaired student's goals here is the same as any other
>>>> student:
>>>>
>>>> "Easily review class readings and materials"
>>>>
>>>> This is actually not yet a row in the list, but I'll add it --
>>>> perhaps the accessibility considerations should be called out as an
>>>> additional column?
>>>>
>>>> I mentioned that this reminded me of another thread from the
>>>> management list -- it's posted below. Nate Angell, in response I
>>>> believe to John Norman's Manifesto for Grading and Rating, began a
>>>> list of what he's also calling "capabilities" such as
>>>> accessibility,
>>>> discoverability, searchability, and tagability
>>>>
>>>> http://wiki.sakaiproject.org/display/MGT/Sakai+3+Capabilities
>>>>
>>>> These capabilities seem more like technological principles that cut
>>>> across at right angles to the list that T&L is putting together--
>>>> that is, that the way these learning capabilities will manifest
>>>> themselves will be by employing these general principles, that Nate
>>>> has started to outline. That may be overly simplified, but it kind
>>>> of looks that way.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Keli
>>>>
>>>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>>>> From: "Eli Cochran" <eli@...>
>>>> To: "Nate Angell" <nate.angell@...>
>>>> Cc: management@..., "sakai-dev Developers" <sakai-dev@...
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2009 9:22:10 AM GMT -08:00 US/
>>>> Canada Pacific
>>>> Subject: Re: [Management] Sakai 3 Capabilities
>>>>
>>>> Nate,
>>>> Very helpful. I love the idea of having it all in one place.
>>>>
>>>> At first I wanted to pull some of the items like "accessibility"
>>>> and
>>>> "rights and permissions" into their own list. They seem
>>>> different than
>>>> functionality that specifically supports teaching and learning.
>>>>
>>>> But the more I think about it the more I like the one list to rule
>>>> them all. It supports the idea that most of these concepts should
>>>> be,
>>>> like "Grading/Ranking/Rating/Reviewing/Evaluating", pervasive and
>>>> omnipresent -- baked in everywhere -- in the same way that
>>>> accessibility should be baked in everywhere and supported by the
>>>> underlying architecture.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Eli
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 28, 2009, at 2:38 AM, Nate Angell wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Like many of you, I've been frustrated by my ability to put my
>>>>> head
>>>>> around the conversations and intersections around Sakai 3.
>>>>>
>>>>> After a conversation with Clay, I decided to put together a
>>>>> stab at a
>>>>> wiki presentation of a Sakai 3 dashboard that might help us
>>>>> organize
>>>>> and better understand our work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Accordingly, I've posted the bones of an example below, where I've
>>>>> begun a list of capabilities already under discussion for Sakai 3:
>>>>> http://wiki.sakaiproject.org/display/MGT/Sakai+3+Capabilities
>>>>>
>>>>> And I began to flesh out one example capability: Grading:
>>>>> http://wiki.sakaiproject.org/display/MGT/Gradability
>>>>>
>>>>> Still missing from Gradability are examples of actual (user)
>>>>> experiences and technologies used to deliver this capability.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are at least a couple of limitations I see already to this
>>>>> format, but I'm open to suggestions and modifications:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Sakai 3 work is highly relational, yet it's handy to see
>>>>> material
>>>>> in context. I already found myself cutting and pasting material
>>>>> that
>>>>> might appear in more than one place.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2) The wiki format doesn't allow a preview of the "card" format,
>>>>> yet
>>>>> the card format allows chunks of info to surface at the top of the
>>>>> page.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nate Angell
>>>>> Client Evangelist
>>>>> @xolotl = twitter
>>>>> http://www.rsmart.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> management mailing list
>>>>> management@...
>>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/management
>>>>>
>>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to management-unsubscribe@...
>>>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>>>>
>>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>>>
>>>> Eli Cochran
>>>> user interaction developer
>>>> ETS, UC Berkeley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> management mailing list
>>>> management@...
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/management
>>>>
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to management-unsubscribe@...
>>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> management mailing list
>>>> management@...
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/management
>>>>
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to management-unsubscribe@...
>>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>>>
>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>>
>>> Eli Cochran
>>> user interaction developer
>>> ETS, UC Berkeley
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> accessibility mailing list
>>> accessibility@...
>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility
>>>
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to accessibility-unsubscribe@...
>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>>
>>
>> Daphne Ogle
>> Senior Interaction Designer
>> University of California, Berkeley
>> Educational Technology Services
>> daphne@...
>> cell (925)348-4372
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> accessibility mailing list
>> accessibility@...
>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility
>>
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to accessibility-unsubscribe@...
>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>
>>
>>

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Eli Cochran
user interaction developer
ETS, UC Berkeley

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Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [WG: Accessibility] [Management] Fwd: Sakai 3 Capabilities and Accessibility

2009-11-06T08:20:42Z

I'm out of my depth here, but does the TinyMCE example 9 (implementing
BBCode syntax) indicate a way forward? I confess I had never heard of
markdown, so I Googled TinyMCE and Markdown to find:
http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590572
Then Wikipedia on Markdown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Markdown
Which led me to a JS implementation, Showdown:
http://attacklab.net/showdown/

So now I have the idea that Markdown is both a syntax and an editor
and the editor stores information in non-html form. This seems to be
very similar to using wiki markup and I found this page on lightweight
markup which suggests MediaWiki syntax and BBCode are in the same family
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightweight_markup_language

Armed with this picture of what Mike may be suggesting, I get to his
question: Do we know how often a rich text editor is used and needed?

My response is based on the Wiki in Sakai 2. We discussed (and even
did proof of concept) for inserting gadgets into wiki pages. The main
reason we chose to use TinyMCE instead, was the preponderance of
Faculty demand for WYSIWYG *or* html editing. Comments like "why are
you making me learn some new markup, when I know html?" and "why can't
I just edit it like a word document?" were common. There were only a
few who expressed "I encourage students to learn Wiki markup because
it is useful for them to know how Wiki's work". Now of course, Wiki
markup was available so you wouldn't expect many requests for it, but
it seems (anecdotally) like a minority sport.

My guess would be that if BBCode can be supported in TinyMCE (now that
I know Markup is lightweight markup, like BBCode) then that would be
the easiest way to go. I imagine that we will need to do work to
implement the extensions/plugins we have used to insert gadgets in the
page. And it seems like an important choice might be: which
lightweight syntax to implement? Is Markup known as the dominant
syntax in the world of accessible editors, or was it just an example?

Sorry for taking you through my ignorance, but I thought it might be
useful for fellow novices. Corrections welcome.

John

On 6 Nov 2009, at 15:27, Michael S Elledge wrote:

Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [WG: Accessibility] [Management] Fwd: Sakai 3 Capabilities and Accessibility

2009-11-06T07:27:54Z

Hi Eli (and everyone)--

It sounds like providing a text-based editor (with markdown or wiki
markup) and using TinyMC as the rich text editor (rather than CKeditor)
is the way to go, per our conference call yesterday on accessibility,
Indiana University's testing and John Norman's comments about Sakai 3
plans (to replace FCK with Tiny).

I wonder if we shouldn't make the text-based editor the default, with
rich text editing the option, instead of the other way around. Do we
know often a rich text editor is used and needed?

What do you think?

Mike

Daphne Ogle wrote:

> On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:10 AM, Eli Cochran wrote:
>
>
>> But really, all we really need are simply stated accessibility goals
>> for Sakai 3.
>>
> We started a new sheet for usability/design goals. They aren't
> pedagogical goals yet in discussion we felt we didn't want lose the
> ideas. I think accessibility goals would fit nicely on that sheet too.
>
> -Daphne
>
>> - Eli
>>
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:34 AM, kamann@... wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I was on the T&L call where people were talking about this Learning
>>> Capabilities matrix
>>> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
>>>
>>> Clay sent a notes saying the list started out around learning and
>>> teaching goals, but there were a few entries that jumped ahead to
>>> the technnology like "Allow me to listen to class readings with a
>>> screen reader." This was written from the perspective a persona from
>>> the Fluid project with low vision. We were struggling with what the
>>> goal during the call and I'm not sure we got there, but we knew her
>>> goal wasn't to use a screen reader. On further reflection, the
>>> visually impaired student's goals here is the same as any other
>>> student:
>>>
>>> "Easily review class readings and materials"
>>>
>>> This is actually not yet a row in the list, but I'll add it --
>>> perhaps the accessibility considerations should be called out as an
>>> additional column?
>>>
>>> I mentioned that this reminded me of another thread from the
>>> management list -- it's posted below. Nate Angell, in response I
>>> believe to John Norman's Manifesto for Grading and Rating, began a
>>> list of what he's also calling "capabilities" such as accessibility,
>>> discoverability, searchability, and tagability
>>>
>>> http://wiki.sakaiproject.org/display/MGT/Sakai+3+Capabilities
>>>
>>> These capabilities seem more like technological principles that cut
>>> across at right angles to the list that T&L is putting together--
>>> that is, that the way these learning capabilities will manifest
>>> themselves will be by employing these general principles, that Nate
>>> has started to outline. That may be overly simplified, but it kind
>>> of looks that way.
>>>
>>>
>>> Keli
>>>
>>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>>> From: "Eli Cochran" <eli@...>
>>> To: "Nate Angell" <nate.angell@...>
>>> Cc: management@..., "sakai-dev Developers" <sakai-dev@...
>>>
>>> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2009 9:22:10 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
>>> Pacific
>>> Subject: Re: [Management] Sakai 3 Capabilities
>>>
>>> Nate,
>>> Very helpful. I love the idea of having it all in one place.
>>>
>>> At first I wanted to pull some of the items like "accessibility" and
>>> "rights and permissions" into their own list. They seem different
>>> than
>>> functionality that specifically supports teaching and learning.
>>>
>>> But the more I think about it the more I like the one list to rule
>>> them all. It supports the idea that most of these concepts should be,
>>> like "Grading/Ranking/Rating/Reviewing/Evaluating", pervasive and
>>> omnipresent -- baked in everywhere -- in the same way that
>>> accessibility should be baked in everywhere and supported by the
>>> underlying architecture.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Eli
>>>
>>> On Oct 28, 2009, at 2:38 AM, Nate Angell wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Like many of you, I've been frustrated by my ability to put my head
>>>> around the conversations and intersections around Sakai 3.
>>>>
>>>> After a conversation with Clay, I decided to put together a stab
>>>> at a
>>>> wiki presentation of a Sakai 3 dashboard that might help us organize
>>>> and better understand our work.
>>>>
>>>> Accordingly, I've posted the bones of an example below, where I've
>>>> begun a list of capabilities already under discussion for Sakai 3:
>>>> http://wiki.sakaiproject.org/display/MGT/Sakai+3+Capabilities
>>>>
>>>> And I began to flesh out one example capability: Grading:
>>>> http://wiki.sakaiproject.org/display/MGT/Gradability
>>>>
>>>> Still missing from Gradability are examples of actual (user)
>>>> experiences and technologies used to deliver this capability.
>>>>
>>>> There are at least a couple of limitations I see already to this
>>>> format, but I'm open to suggestions and modifications:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Sakai 3 work is highly relational, yet it's handy to see material
>>>> in context. I already found myself cutting and pasting material that
>>>> might appear in more than one place.
>>>>
>>>> 2) The wiki format doesn't allow a preview of the "card" format, yet
>>>> the card format allows chunks of info to surface at the top of the
>>>> page.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nate Angell
>>>> Client Evangelist
>>>> @xolotl = twitter
>>>> http://www.rsmart.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> management mailing list
>>>> management@...
>>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/management
>>>>
>>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to management-unsubscribe@...
>>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>>>
>>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>>
>>> Eli Cochran
>>> user interaction developer
>>> ETS, UC Berkeley
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> management mailing list
>>> management@...
>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/management
>>>
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to management-unsubscribe@...
>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> management mailing list
>>> management@...
>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/management
>>>
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to management-unsubscribe@...
>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>>
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>
>> Eli Cochran
>> user interaction developer
>> ETS, UC Berkeley
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> accessibility mailing list
>> accessibility@...
>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility
>>
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to accessibility-unsubscribe@...
>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>
>
> Daphne Ogle
> Senior Interaction Designer
> University of California, Berkeley
> Educational Technology Services
> daphne@...
> cell (925)348-4372
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> accessibility mailing list
> accessibility@...
> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to accessibility-unsubscribe@... with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>
>
>

Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] User Goals

2009-11-05T15:51:43Z

I suppose I was thinking of a couple different ways in which themes
might be useful:

- remind us of things we left off, as we realize that certain themes
haven't been adequately fleshed out
- coloring in the backdrop of our users' worlds, for the benefit of
designers (e.g. it seems instructive to keep in mind how the first two
weeks of term often have different pressures and expectations than the
rest of the course lifecycle, and likewise the last couple weeks)
- provide cross-cutting insight into similarities between goals and capabilities

So I'd agree that the themes needn't always be resolved to user
expressions or frames of mind, and that they are ways to help us
organize and make sense of things.

At bottom, I'm taking this spreadsheet primarily as a way for those
with expertise and insight into our user population and its activities
- people on the functional side - to codify and communicate their
acquired wisdom to a design process, and to do so in a way that will
make the most difference to that design process. It is in my mind a
supplement to the user research underway, qualitatively different but
with complementary strengths. Though in some respects this expression
of practical wisdom is less pure in its methodology than user
research, it can also be more shrewd and incisive.

I have this picture in my head:

Functional experts & User Researchers --> Designers --> UI
Developers --> Back End Developers

At each gap along the way there is a bridging document which serves as
two-way communication or contract. Between back-end development and
UI development there is an API specification. Between UI Developers
and Designers there is this budding pattern/component library. And
between pedagogists, user researchers and the designers there are
personas, contextual inquiries, user journeys ... and this spreadsheet
linking basic user needs to a rich array of capabilities.

~Clay

PS David is also gently nudging us to stop just talking and help with
the doing. I'm on it, though it's sometimes hard to do without feeling
disruptive.

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Daphne Ogle <daphne@...> wrote:

> Another thing we might want to keep in mind as we create themes, is at this
> point (at least I think) the themes are a way to help us make sense of the
> large amount of information we are creating. The categories themselves will
> of course shape the way we think about these goals (which I think does mean
> we don't want to get stuck in old assumptions) but I don't think they say
> anything about how they end up in the application. The activity flows on
> the other hand, might be quite insightful around which activities are
> closely related, happen together, need to talk to each other, etc.
> As far as whether the categories make sense to faculty, I think it would be
> interesting to see if our categorizations make sense to them but I'm not
> sure it's critical since this is really a tool for the development team at
> this point. But it does seem more critical that the activity flows make
> sense to faculty, particularly if they help structure the design/framework
> of the application.
> Just kind of talking out loud...
> -Daphne
>
> On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:18 AM, David Goodrum wrote:
>
> Hi Clay,
> I agree this idea of activity flows would be a very fertile ground to
> pursue. I would suggest this be in addition to, not in place of, themese
> that emerged among participants so far.
> I've gone ahead and added an Activity Flow column next to the major themes
> column so that everyone can start exploring the idea further.
> I think some of these will be alternate ways of expressing the current ones
> you described as more traditional, and other activity flows will involve new
> orientations that is important for us to uncover. I think it will remind us
> to make sure we get to a mental escape velocity from a tool orientation.
> This probably goes without saying, but I'll state it just to be transparent:
> Our and our users frustration with current tools like gradebook, forums,
> syllabus, resources, tests, surveys, activities, etc. is not because those
> ideas or even these terms are in themselves limiting (in fact instructors
> and students recognize these as common collections of activities); but we've
> come to realize that Sakai's implementation of them was too narrow. From
> day one we've had faculty and students who wanted to do exactly those kinds
> of activities, but be able to do them more broadly and more synthetically;
> so they asked all the time, why can't I link my students directly from here
> to there? why can't I grade and give feedback to everything? why can't I put
> some of this in the middle of that? and so on.
> Your feedback along the way has been very insightful and helpful. And feel
> as free as anyone to contribute directly to the spreadsheet.
> Regards - David
> ________________________________
> From: Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...>
> To: David Goodrum <davidgoodrum@...>
> Cc: Robin Hill <hill@...>; pedagogy Learning
> <pedagogy@...>; Sakai UX
> <sakai-ux@...>
> Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 6:44:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [DG: User Experience] [DG: Teaching & Learning] User Goals
>
> I was having another thought about the themes that are emerging.
> Again, they seem to be mainly functional clumpings along traditional
> lines, but what if instead they wrapped around activity flows that
> tend to have related patterns, pressures and frames of mind, e.g.
> here's one that's (partially) temporal:
>
> - Start of term: all the setup, syllabussy, "need to learn my
> student's names" kind of things you deal with in the first few weeks
> of term.
> - Assigning and completing work, providing feedback: the activity
> workflows that form the main body of coursework, whether as projects
> in teams, or papers and assignments submitted individually
> - Assessment, exams, grading and other administrivia
>
> I can think of other functionally-oriented sets which are however less
> tool-centric, e.g.
>
> - Tracking learning and engagement
> - Content authoring and publishing
> - Mentoring, peer review and feedback
> - Researching a topic, finding references and resources
>
> Are there other thematic structures that might help relate goals
> better? I think notions like 'content management' don't really wind
> themselves organically around course activities in ways that are
> especially instructive for designing for users in our settings.
>
> ~Clay
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 6:11 PM, David Goodrum
> <davidgoodrum@...> wrote:
>> Hi Robin,
>>
>> I think that is a really fine example and I appreciate you sharing and can
>> relate to the struggle it can take to evolve to the right level and kind of
>> description.
>>
>> Of course, a goal doesn't have to be that perfect to get a row started on
>> the document; and others can then help by putting suggested wording or
>> alternate wording in the same cell in the matrix.
>>
>> This early on in trying to build this document up, it's most important to
>> get the ideas out. A structured brainstorming exercise, one might say.
>>
>> We can revise and refine, sift and sort, clump and cluster, and summarize
>> and synthesize in the next phase.
>>
>> Best Regards - David
>>
>> On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Robin Hill <hill@...> wrote:
>>
>> Since I take this seriously, having spent years teaching computer
>> science students to separate design from implementaion, maybe I can
>> illustrate the process and the difficulty with a spreadsheet entry of my
>> own.
>>
>> ========
>> From the point of view of an instructor (of a logic course):
>>
>> 1. I want an Example Bank.
>> Bad-- no functional description.
>>
>> 2. I want a set of tagged text records in an associative array.
>> Bad-- assumes a particular mechanism.
>>
>> 3. I want to maintain my examples in a personal blog that allows labels
>> on postings.
>> Bad-- assumes a particular tool.
>>
>> 4. I want examples that I can look up and use.
>> Bad-- too general and vague.
>>
>> 5. I want to save example of statements and reasoning when encountered
>> in daily life, and I want to retrieve them based on their properties
>> when composing course materials.
>> Good!
>> ========
>>
>> Clay is welcome to comment, especially if this is NOT what he has in mind.
>>
>>
>> Clay Fenlason wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Luke Fernandez
>> <luke.fernandez@...> wrote:
>> I guess the question is whether there is a point where we should
>> take the technological needs which our faculty articulate at face
>> value.
>>
>> My experience is that this is most often counterproductive. I think
>> this is why UCD starts with user *research* as opposed to simply
>> asking the users what they want. The important considerations are
>> very often the ones we are not conscious of, let alone those we're
>> able to articulate well, not to mention articulate a solution that
>> will also work for other people and fit well with other technical
>> solutions in the same space, and so forth. It takes talent to
>> synthesize sets of needs and come up with good answers, and that
>> talent is not aided by leaping into implementation details too
>> quickly.
>>
>> My underlying aim is to see us build something helpful and useful,
>> not do a product comparison (and maybe that's why you are coming at
>> this from a different angle). We've got designers ready to do work,
>> and they're the ones with the sort of talent I indicated above. We
>> need to help them cut through to what's essential, not get distracted
>> by incidental detail.
>>
>> I think we're all familiar with conversations where someone confronts
>> us with their issue, we start to raise possibilities or workarounds
>> and press on details of what they're asking for, until they finally
>> throw up their hands and say, "Look, I just want something that will
>> <insert simple thing here> and not be a PITA, and if you can give me
>> that I'll be happy." When they get to the point of putting it that
>> way, then I think we're getting somewhere.
>>
>> ~Clay _______________________________________________ pedagogy
>> mailing list pedagogy@...
>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy
>>
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
>> pedagogy-unsubscribe@... with a subject of
>> "unsubscribe"
>>
>> --
>> Robin Hill, Ph.D. hill@... 307-766-5499
>> Instructional Computing Services http://www.uwyo.edu/ctl
>> Ellbogen Center for Teaching and Learning University of Wyoming
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> sakai-ux mailing list
>> sakai-ux@...
>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-ux
>>
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email
>> to sakai-ux-unsubscribe@... with a subject of
>> "unsubscribe"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> pedagogy mailing list
> pedagogy@...
> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email
> to pedagogy-unsubscribe@... with a subject of
> "unsubscribe"
>
> Daphne Ogle
> Senior Interaction Designer
> University of California, Berkeley
> Educational Technology Services
> daphne@...
> cell (925)348-4372
>
>
>
>

Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] User Goals

2009-11-05T14:52:47Z

Another thing we might want to keep in mind as we create themes, is at this point (at least I think) the themes are a way to help us make sense of the large amount of information we are creating. The categories themselves will of course shape the way we think about these goals (which I think does mean we don't want to get stuck in old assumptions) but I don't think they say anything about how they end up in the application. The activity flows on the other hand, might be quite insightful around which activities are closely related, happen together, need to talk to each other, etc.

As far as whether the categories make sense to faculty, I think it would be interesting to see if our categorizations make sense to them but I'm not sure it's critical since this is really a tool for the development team at this point. But it does seem more critical that the activity flows make sense to faculty, particularly if they help structure the design/framework of the application.

Just kind of talking out loud...

-Daphne

On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:18 AM, David Goodrum wrote:

Hi Clay,

I agree this idea of activity flows would be a very fertile ground to pursue. I would suggest this be in addition to, not in place of, themese that emerged among participants so far.

I've gone ahead and added an Activity Flow column next to the major themes column so that everyone can start exploring the idea further.

I think some of these will be alternate ways of expressing the current ones you described as more traditional, and other activity flows will involve new orientations that is important for us to uncover. I think it will remind us to make sure we get to a mental escape velocity from a tool orientation.

This probably goes without saying, but I'll state it just to be transparent: Our and our users frustration with current tools like gradebook, forums, syllabus, resources, tests, surveys, activities, etc. is not because those ideas or even these terms are in themselves limiting (in fact instructors and students recognize these as common collections of activities); but we've come to realize that Sakai's implementation of them was too narrow. From day one we've had faculty and students who wanted to do exactly those kinds of activities, but be able to do them more broadly and more synthetically; so they asked all the time, why can't I link my students directly from here to there? why can't I grade and give feedback to everything? why can't I put some of this in the middle of that? and so on.

Your feedback along the way has been very insightful and helpful. And feel as free as anyone to contribute directly to the spreadsheet.

Regards - David

From: Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...>
To: David Goodrum <davidgoodrum@...>
Cc: Robin Hill <hill@...>; pedagogy Learning <pedagogy@...>; Sakai UX <sakai-ux@...>
Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 6:44:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DG: User Experience] [DG: Teaching & Learning] User Goals

I was having another thought about the themes that are emerging.
Again, they seem to be mainly functional clumpings along traditional
lines, but what if instead they wrapped around activity flows that
tend to have related patterns, pressures and frames of mind, e.g.
here's one that's (partially) temporal:

- Start of term: all the setup, syllabussy, "need to learn my
student's names" kind of things you deal with in the first few weeks
of term.
- Assigning and completing work, providing feedback: the activity
workflows that form the main body of coursework, whether as projects
in teams, or papers and assignments submitted individually
- Assessment, exams, grading and other administrivia

I can think of other functionally-oriented sets which are however less
tool-centric, e.g.

- Tracking learning and engagement
- Content authoring and publishing
- Mentoring, peer review and feedback
- Researching a topic, finding references and resources

Are there other thematic structures that might help relate goals
better? I think notions like 'content management' don't really wind
themselves organically around course activities in ways that are
especially instructive for designing for users in our settings.

~Clay

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 6:11 PM, David Goodrum
<davidgoodrum@...> wrote:

> Hi Robin,
>
> I think that is a really fine example and I appreciate you sharing and can relate to the struggle it can take to evolve to the right level and kind of description.
>
> Of course, a goal doesn't have to be that perfect to get a row started on the document; and others can then help by putting suggested wording or alternate wording in the same cell in the matrix.
>
> This early on in trying to build this document up, it's most important to get the ideas out. A structured brainstorming exercise, one might say.
>
> We can revise and refine, sift and sort, clump and cluster, and summarize and synthesize in the next phase.
>
> Best Regards - David
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Robin Hill <hill@...> wrote:
>
> Since I take this seriously, having spent years teaching computer
> science students to separate design from implementaion, maybe I can
> illustrate the process and the difficulty with a spreadsheet entry of my
> own.
>
> ========
> From the point of view of an instructor (of a logic course):
>
> 1. I want an Example Bank.
> Bad-- no functional description.
>
> 2. I want a set of tagged text records in an associative array.
> Bad-- assumes a particular mechanism.
>
> 3. I want to maintain my examples in a personal blog that allows labels
> on postings.
> Bad-- assumes a particular tool.
>
> 4. I want examples that I can look up and use.
> Bad-- too general and vague.
>
> 5. I want to save example of statements and reasoning when encountered
> in daily life, and I want to retrieve them based on their properties
> when composing course materials.
> Good!
> ========
>
> Clay is welcome to comment, especially if this is NOT what he has in mind.
>
>
> Clay Fenlason wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Luke Fernandez
> <luke.fernandez@...> wrote:
> I guess the question is whether there is a point where we should
> take the technological needs which our faculty articulate at face
> value.
>
> My experience is that this is most often counterproductive. I think
> this is why UCD starts with user *research* as opposed to simply
> asking the users what they want. The important considerations are
> very often the ones we are not conscious of, let alone those we're
> able to articulate well, not to mention articulate a solution that
> will also work for other people and fit well with other technical
> solutions in the same space, and so forth. It takes talent to
> synthesize sets of needs and come up with good answers, and that
> talent is not aided by leaping into implementation details too
> quickly.
>
> My underlying aim is to see us build something helpful and useful,
> not do a product comparison (and maybe that's why you are coming at
> this from a different angle). We've got designers ready to do work,
> and they're the ones with the sort of talent I indicated above. We
> need to help them cut through to what's essential, not get distracted
> by incidental detail.
>
> I think we're all familiar with conversations where someone confronts
> us with their issue, we start to raise possibilities or workarounds
> and press on details of what they're asking for, until they finally
> throw up their hands and say, "Look, I just want something that will
> <insert simple thing here> and not be a PITA, and if you can give me
> that I'll be happy." When they get to the point of putting it that
> way, then I think we're getting somewhere.
>
> ~Clay _______________________________________________ pedagogy
> mailing list pedagogy@...
> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
> pedagogy-unsubscribe@... with a subject of
> "unsubscribe"
>
> --
> Robin Hill, Ph.D. hill@... 307-766-5499
> Instructional Computing Services http://www.uwyo.edu/ctl
> Ellbogen Center for Teaching and Learning University of Wyoming
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sakai-ux mailing list
> sakai-ux@...
> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-ux
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to sakai-ux-unsubscribe@... with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>
>
>
>
>

_______________________________________________
pedagogy mailing list
pedagogy@...
http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to pedagogy-unsubscribe@... with a subject of "unsubscribe"

Daphne Ogle

Senior Interaction Designer

University of California, Berkeley

Educational Technology Services

daphne@...

cell (925)348-4372

Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [WG: Accessibility] [Management] Fwd: Sakai 3 Capabilities and Accessibility

2009-11-05T14:39:06Z

On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:10 AM, Eli Cochran wrote:

>
>
> But really, all we really need are simply stated accessibility goals
> for Sakai 3.
We started a new sheet for usability/design goals. They aren't
pedagogical goals yet in discussion we felt we didn't want lose the
ideas. I think accessibility goals would fit nicely on that sheet too.

-Daphne

>
> - Eli
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 10:34 AM, kamann@... wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I was on the T&L call where people were talking about this Learning
>> Capabilities matrix
>> https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AlfbHxo2qpHEdHRuSnowVGMwWE9HY1MtVjFpY1dtS0E&hl=en
>>
>> Clay sent a notes saying the list started out around learning and
>> teaching goals, but there were a few entries that jumped ahead to
>> the technnology like "Allow me to listen to class readings with a
>> screen reader." This was written from the perspective a persona from
>> the Fluid project with low vision. We were struggling with what the
>> goal during the call and I'm not sure we got there, but we knew her
>> goal wasn't to use a screen reader. On further reflection, the
>> visually impaired student's goals here is the same as any other
>> student:
>>
>> "Easily review class readings and materials"
>>
>> This is actually not yet a row in the list, but I'll add it --
>> perhaps the accessibility considerations should be called out as an
>> additional column?
>>
>> I mentioned that this reminded me of another thread from the
>> management list -- it's posted below. Nate Angell, in response I
>> believe to John Norman's Manifesto for Grading and Rating, began a
>> list of what he's also calling "capabilities" such as accessibility,
>> discoverability, searchability, and tagability
>>
>> http://wiki.sakaiproject.org/display/MGT/Sakai+3+Capabilities
>>
>> These capabilities seem more like technological principles that cut
>> across at right angles to the list that T&L is putting together--
>> that is, that the way these learning capabilities will manifest
>> themselves will be by employing these general principles, that Nate
>> has started to outline. That may be overly simplified, but it kind
>> of looks that way.
>>
>>
>> Keli
>>
>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>> From: "Eli Cochran" <eli@...>
>> To: "Nate Angell" <nate.angell@...>
>> Cc: management@..., "sakai-dev Developers" <sakai-dev@...
>>>
>> Sent: Monday, November 2, 2009 9:22:10 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada
>> Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [Management] Sakai 3 Capabilities
>>
>> Nate,
>> Very helpful. I love the idea of having it all in one place.
>>
>> At first I wanted to pull some of the items like "accessibility" and
>> "rights and permissions" into their own list. They seem different
>> than
>> functionality that specifically supports teaching and learning.
>>
>> But the more I think about it the more I like the one list to rule
>> them all. It supports the idea that most of these concepts should be,
>> like "Grading/Ranking/Rating/Reviewing/Evaluating", pervasive and
>> omnipresent -- baked in everywhere -- in the same way that
>> accessibility should be baked in everywhere and supported by the
>> underlying architecture.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Eli
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2009, at 2:38 AM, Nate Angell wrote:
>>
>>> Like many of you, I've been frustrated by my ability to put my head
>>> around the conversations and intersections around Sakai 3.
>>>
>>> After a conversation with Clay, I decided to put together a stab
>>> at a
>>> wiki presentation of a Sakai 3 dashboard that might help us organize
>>> and better understand our work.
>>>
>>> Accordingly, I've posted the bones of an example below, where I've
>>> begun a list of capabilities already under discussion for Sakai 3:
>>> http://wiki.sakaiproject.org/display/MGT/Sakai+3+Capabilities
>>>
>>> And I began to flesh out one example capability: Grading:
>>> http://wiki.sakaiproject.org/display/MGT/Gradability
>>>
>>> Still missing from Gradability are examples of actual (user)
>>> experiences and technologies used to deliver this capability.
>>>
>>> There are at least a couple of limitations I see already to this
>>> format, but I'm open to suggestions and modifications:
>>>
>>> 1) Sakai 3 work is highly relational, yet it's handy to see material
>>> in context. I already found myself cutting and pasting material that
>>> might appear in more than one place.
>>>
>>> 2) The wiki format doesn't allow a preview of the "card" format, yet
>>> the card format allows chunks of info to surface at the top of the
>>> page.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nate Angell
>>> Client Evangelist
>>> @xolotl = twitter
>>> http://www.rsmart.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> management mailing list
>>> management@...
>>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/management
>>>
>>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to management-unsubscribe@...
>>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>>
>> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>>
>> Eli Cochran
>> user interaction developer
>> ETS, UC Berkeley
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> management mailing list
>> management@...
>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/management
>>
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to management-unsubscribe@...
>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>> _______________________________________________
>> management mailing list
>> management@...
>> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/management
>>
>> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to management-unsubscribe@...
>> with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
>
> Eli Cochran
> user interaction developer
> ETS, UC Berkeley
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> accessibility mailing list
> accessibility@...
> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to accessibility-unsubscribe@...
> with a subject of "unsubscribe"

Daphne Ogle
Senior Interaction Designer
University of California, Berkeley
Educational Technology Services
daphne@...
cell (925)348-4372

_______________________________________________
pedagogy mailing list
pedagogy@...
http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy

TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to pedagogy-unsubscribe@... with a subject of "unsubscribe"

Re: [DG: Teaching & Learning] [DG: User Experience] User Goals

2009-11-05T09:18:25Z

Hi Clay,

I agree this idea of activity flows would be a very fertile ground to pursue. I would suggest this be in addition to, not in place of, themese that emerged among participants so far.

I've gone ahead and added an Activity Flow column next to the major themes column so that everyone can start exploring the idea further.

I think some of these will be alternate ways of expressing the current ones you described as more traditional, and other activity flows will involve new orientations that is important for us to uncover. I think it will remind us to make sure we get to a mental escape velocity from a tool orientation.

This probably goes without saying, but I'll state it just to be transparent: Our and our users frustration with current tools like gradebook, forums, syllabus, resources, tests, surveys, activities, etc. is not because those ideas or even these terms are in themselves limiting (in fact instructors and students recognize these as common collections of activities); but we've come to realize that Sakai's implementation of them was too narrow. From day one we've had faculty and students who wanted to do exactly those kinds of activities, but be able to do them more broadly and more synthetically; so they asked all the time, why can't I link my students directly from here to there? why can't I grade and give feedback to everything? why can't I put some of this in the middle of that? and so on.

Your feedback along the way has been very insightful and helpful. And feel as free as anyone to contribute directly to the spreadsheet.

Regards - David

From: Clay Fenlason <clay.fenlason@...>
To: David Goodrum <davidgoodrum@...>
Cc: Robin Hill <hill@...>; pedagogy Learning <pedagogy@...>; Sakai UX <sakai-ux@...>
Sent: Wed, November 4, 2009 6:44:14 PM
Subject: Re: [DG: User Experience] [DG: Teaching & Learning] User Goals

I was having another thought about the themes that are emerging.
Again, they seem to be mainly functional clumpings along traditional
lines, but what if instead they wrapped around activity flows that
tend to have related patterns, pressures and frames of mind, e.g.
here's one that's (partially) temporal:

- Start of term: all the setup, syllabussy, "need to learn my
student's names" kind of things you deal with in the first few weeks
of term.
- Assigning and completing work, providing feedback: the activity
workflows that form the main body of coursework, whether as projects
in teams, or papers and assignments submitted individually
- Assessment, exams, grading and other administrivia

I can think of other functionally-oriented sets which are however less
tool-centric, e.g.

- Tracking learning and engagement
- Content authoring and publishing
- Mentoring, peer review and feedback
- Researching a topic, finding references and resources

Are there other thematic structures that might help relate goals
better? I think notions like 'content management' don't really wind
themselves organically around course activities in ways that are
especially instructive for designing for users in our settings.

~Clay

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 6:11 PM, David Goodrum
<davidgoodrum@...> wrote:

> Hi Robin,
>
> I think that is a really fine example and I appreciate you sharing and can relate to the struggle it can take to evolve to the right level and kind of description.
>
> Of course, a goal doesn't have to be that perfect to get a row started on the document; and others can then help by putting suggested wording or alternate wording in the same cell in the matrix.
>
> This early on in trying to build this document up, it's most important to get the ideas out. A structured brainstorming exercise, one might say.
>
> We can revise and refine, sift and sort, clump and cluster, and summarize and synthesize in the next phase.
>
> Best Regards - David
>
> On Nov 4, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Robin Hill <hill@...> wrote:
>
> Since I take this seriously, having spent years teaching computer
> science students to separate design from implementaion, maybe I can
> illustrate the process and the difficulty with a spreadsheet entry of my
> own.
>
> ========
> From the point of view of an instructor (of a logic course):
>
> 1. I want an Example Bank.
> Bad-- no functional description.
>
> 2. I want a set of tagged text records in an associative array.
> Bad-- assumes a particular mechanism.
>
> 3. I want to maintain my examples in a personal blog that allows labels
> on postings.
> Bad-- assumes a particular tool.
>
> 4. I want examples that I can look up and use.
> Bad-- too general and vague.
>
> 5. I want to save example of statements and reasoning when encountered
> in daily life, and I want to retrieve them based on their properties
> when composing course materials.
> Good!
> ========
>
> Clay is welcome to comment, especially if this is NOT what he has in mind.
>
>
> Clay Fenlason wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Luke Fernandez
> <luke.fernandez@...> wrote:
> I guess the question is whether there is a point where we should
> take the technological needs which our faculty articulate at face
> value.
>
> My experience is that this is most often counterproductive. I think
> this is why UCD starts with user *research* as opposed to simply
> asking the users what they want. The important considerations are
> very often the ones we are not conscious of, let alone those we're
> able to articulate well, not to mention articulate a solution that
> will also work for other people and fit well with other technical
> solutions in the same space, and so forth. It takes talent to
> synthesize sets of needs and come up with good answers, and that
> talent is not aided by leaping into implementation details too
> quickly.
>
> My underlying aim is to see us build something helpful and useful,
> not do a product comparison (and maybe that's why you are coming at
> this from a different angle). We've got designers ready to do work,
> and they're the ones with the sort of talent I indicated above. We
> need to help them cut through to what's essential, not get distracted
> by incidental detail.
>
> I think we're all familiar with conversations where someone confronts
> us with their issue, we start to raise possibilities or workarounds
> and press on details of what they're asking for, until they finally
> throw up their hands and say, "Look, I just want something that will
> <insert simple thing here> and not be a PITA, and if you can give me
> that I'll be happy." When they get to the point of putting it that
> way, then I think we're getting somewhere.
>
> ~Clay _______________________________________________ pedagogy
> mailing list pedagogy@...

> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/pedagogy
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to
> pedagogy-unsubscribe@... with a subject of
> "unsubscribe"
>
> --
> Robin Hill, Ph.D. hill@... 307-766-5499
> Instructional Computing Services http://www.uwyo.edu/ctl
> Ellbogen Center for Teaching and Learning University of Wyoming
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> sakai-ux mailing list
> sakai-ux@...
> http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/sakai-ux
>
> TO UNSUBSCRIBE: send email to sakai-ux-unsubscribe@... with a subject of "unsubscribe"
>
>
>
>
>