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Re: More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee contraption - photos

2009-12-01T04:40:58Z

> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-bounces@... [mailto:linux-
> bounces@...] On Behalf Of Alastair D'Silva
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2009 5:46 PM
> To: 'Paul Mackerras'
> Cc: 'Felix Karpfen'; linux@...; hugh@...
> Subject: Re: [clug] More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee
> contraption - photos
>
> Theres a good example on AVR's site:
>
> http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc2508.pdf

Hmm, going back to the application note above, they suggest that the
internal diodes are suitable for clamping an input up to 1000V, but require
external surge suppression for greater voltages. Assuming the PICs have
similar clamping (do they?), what would it take to add surge suppression to
their circuit? Would a MOV to earth do the trick? Is it a suitable
substitute for isolation?

Cheers,

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Re: More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee contraption - photos

2009-12-01T03:19:53Z

Alastair D'Silva writes:

> Theres a good example on AVR's site:
>
> http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc2508.pdf
>
> The example is for a mains coupled microcontroller (likely powered by a
> capacitive supply from the mains) - since we want isolation, I would add an
> optocoupler, and clamping diodes (the example uses the internal diodes of
> the microcontroller).

So, 1Mohm resistor from active to the photodiode anode, neutral to the
photodiode cathode, with a diode across the photodiode - is that the
idea?

I'm afraid that won't work very well at all. The current through the
photodiode will rise gradually from 0 to about 0.34 mA as we go
through the first quarter-cycle (5ms). If we assume a 4N25, it has a
typical current-transfer ratio of 0.7 at 10mA photodiode current (0.2
min), but that drops by a factor of about 5 once we get down to
0.5mA. So that means that we'll get a maximum of about 50uA of
collector current at the quarter-cycle point when the voltage is at a
maximum. Around the zero-crossing, we won't get enough collector
current in the phototransistor to detect the zero-crossing with any
reliability.

We could reduce the resistor a bit, but what we really need is to get
at least 1mA of current through the photodiode within about 100us of
the zero-crossing. That means a 10k resistor, which will end up
dissipating about 6W, which I don't consider acceptable.

> I'm not too sure where the microseconds figure is coming from, given that
> you are detecting a on a 50/60Hz signal. In order to have that resolution on
> your switching, you would need a PWM with at least 14 bits of resolution.
> The project is using an 8 bit PWM, which is an order of magnitude less than
> the resolution required for microseconds to be a problem.

Actually I can in principle control the position of the turn-on pulse
with 1us resolution. I should have said "tens of microseconds" rather
than "microseconds", though. I would like to do it in under 100us,
and certainly in under 300us, since that is the point at which there
is enough voltage to turn on the triac reliably.

Paul.
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Re: Tridge's coffee contraption - photos

2009-12-01T01:51:43Z

> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-bounces@... [mailto:linux-
> bounces@...] On Behalf Of David Cottrill
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2009 6:33 PM
> To: Alastair D'Silva
> Cc: linux@...; Felix Karpfen; Paul Mackerras;
> hugh@...
> Subject: Re: [clug] Tridge's coffee contraption - photos
>
> Now that we are truly off topic I think I see Pauls point.
> However... by calculating the inherent delay in the RC circuit formed
> by the series resistor and the input capactance we can adjust the PID
> output timer on the triac to account for this known error and it will
> likely be small enough that it will not be a problem.
>
> If I've made any dud assumptions then let me know.
>

You are right, there will be some lag. However, this lag is also in place in
the transformer situation, all other things being equal. From the source's
point of view, the impedance of the load will be similar (the variance
coming from there not being a big inductor in series with the voltage
source) - the input capacitance of the microcontroller and the (effective)
series resistance from the source will be identical.

(Disclaimer: I haven't touched maths to any significant degree since uni, so
please double check my work :) )

You are also right, in that delays can be accounted for in software. In
fact, since there is a feedback loop in place, this is already done for you
:) The end effect of any delay that I can see would be to clamp the maximum
duty cycle to something less than 100%. Assuming a 1ms delay per half cycle
(which would be huge), you would only get 90% time on, lost from the part of
the wave near 0V. Since power is proportional to the square of the voltage
(in a purely resistive load, which we'll say the hot air gun is for
simplicity sake), we get power loss = sin(0.1 * pi)^2 = 0.095, or 10%.

It would be interesting to hook up the original circuit to a CRO to see what
the effective duty cycle is at 100% power.

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Re: Tridge's coffee contraption - photos

2009-11-30T23:33:20Z

Now that we are truly off topic I think I see Pauls point.
However... by calculating the inherent delay in the RC circuit formed
by the series resistor and the input capactance we can adjust the PID
output timer on the triac to account for this known error and it will
likely be small enough that it will not be a problem.

If I've made any dud assumptions then let me know.

David

On Tuesday, December 1, 2009, Alastair D'Silva
<alastair@...> wrote:

>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: linux-bounces@... [mailto:linux-
>> bounces@...] On Behalf Of Paul Mackerras
>> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2009 5:05 PM
>> To: Alastair D'Silva
>> Cc: 'Felix Karpfen'; linux@...; hugh@...
>> Subject: Re: [clug] More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee
>> contraption - photos
>>
>> Alastair D'Silva writes:
>>
>> > You can achieve the zero cross detection with an
>> > optocoupler and a resistor divider network.
>>
>> I would be interested to see a circuit that can reliably detect the
>> zero-crossings (to within a few microseconds), doesn't need any
>> high-power resistors, and only uses a few components.
>
> Theres a good example on AVR's site:
>
> http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc2508.pdf
>
> The example is for a mains coupled microcontroller (likely powered by a
> capacitive supply from the mains) - since we want isolation, I would add an
> optocoupler, and clamping diodes (the example uses the internal diodes of
> the microcontroller).
>
> At 1mOhm, the maximum current you would have through the resistor is 0.3mA,
> dissipating around 0.1W, so high power resistors are not needed. You do
> however need to ensure the resistors are suitably rated for that voltage
> (plus some breathing room) though, and the easiest way to do that is to
> uprate the power rating. Even so, the end result is cheaper, lighter and
> less bulky than using a transformer.
>
> While there is some lag to reach the trigger voltage of the micro's input,
> it will be similar to the lag that a detector connected to a transformer
> would show (probably less actually, since a transformer adds a phase shift
> dependant on the impedance of the load). The optocoupler will add a fixed
> amount of lag, which can be taken from the data sheet and accounted for in
> software.
>
> I'm not too sure where the microseconds figure is coming from, given that
> you are detecting a on a 50/60Hz signal. In order to have that resolution on
> your switching, you would need a PWM with at least 14 bits of resolution.
> The project is using an 8 bit PWM, which is an order of magnitude less than
> the resolution required for microseconds to be a problem.
>
> --
> Alastair D'Silva mob: 0423 762 819
> Networking Consultant fax: 0413 181 661
> New Millennium Networking web: http://www.newmillennium.net.au
> skype: alastair_dsilva msn: alastair@...
> blog: http://alastair.d-silva.org
>
>
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Re: More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee contraption - photos

2009-11-30T22:46:18Z

> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-bounces@... [mailto:linux-
> bounces@...] On Behalf Of Paul Mackerras
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2009 5:05 PM
> To: Alastair D'Silva
> Cc: 'Felix Karpfen'; linux@...; hugh@...
> Subject: Re: [clug] More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee
> contraption - photos
>
> Alastair D'Silva writes:
>
> > You can achieve the zero cross detection with an
> > optocoupler and a resistor divider network.
>
> I would be interested to see a circuit that can reliably detect the
> zero-crossings (to within a few microseconds), doesn't need any
> high-power resistors, and only uses a few components.

Theres a good example on AVR's site:

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/doc2508.pdf

The example is for a mains coupled microcontroller (likely powered by a
capacitive supply from the mains) - since we want isolation, I would add an
optocoupler, and clamping diodes (the example uses the internal diodes of
the microcontroller).

At 1mOhm, the maximum current you would have through the resistor is 0.3mA,
dissipating around 0.1W, so high power resistors are not needed. You do
however need to ensure the resistors are suitably rated for that voltage
(plus some breathing room) though, and the easiest way to do that is to
uprate the power rating. Even so, the end result is cheaper, lighter and
less bulky than using a transformer.

While there is some lag to reach the trigger voltage of the micro's input,
it will be similar to the lag that a detector connected to a transformer
would show (probably less actually, since a transformer adds a phase shift
dependant on the impedance of the load). The optocoupler will add a fixed
amount of lag, which can be taken from the data sheet and accounted for in
software.

I'm not too sure where the microseconds figure is coming from, given that
you are detecting a on a 50/60Hz signal. In order to have that resolution on
your switching, you would need a PWM with at least 14 bits of resolution.
The project is using an 8 bit PWM, which is an order of magnitude less than
the resolution required for microseconds to be a problem.

--
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Networking Consultant fax: 0413 181 661
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Re: More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee contraption - photos

2009-11-30T22:04:42Z

Alastair D'Silva writes:

> You can achieve the zero cross detection with an
> optocoupler and a resistor divider network.

I would be interested to see a circuit that can reliably detect the
zero-crossings (to within a few microseconds), doesn't need any
high-power resistors, and only uses a few components.

Paul.
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Re: More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee contraption - photos

2009-11-30T17:24:43Z

Hi Hugh,

Some suggestions to make the whole thing cheaper & better:

1. use a USB PIC, or software USB on an Atmel -
http://www.xs4all.nl/~dicks/avr/usbtiny/ . This replaces the MAX232 with a
couple of resistors. Since you now have a USB device, the transformer is not
needed for power. You can achieve the zero cross detection with an
optocoupler and a resistor divider network.

2. Add an analog input jack for the thermocouple, eliminating the multimeter
from the equation. Once could always add an LCD/LED display for temperature
readouts at a fraction of the cost of the multimeter.

3. Add another 240V output for direct control of the motor.

Some parts will be salvageable directly from the control of the breadmaker -
it likely already has a triac or relay for driving the motor, and possibly a
thermocouple as well. There may also be an LED display you can use for
temperature readouts.

--
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Networking Consultant fax: 0413 181 661
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blog: http://alastair.d-silva.org

> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-bounces@... [mailto:linux-
> bounces@...] On Behalf Of Hugh Blemings
> Sent: Tuesday, 1 December 2009 11:54 AM
> To: tridge@...
> Cc: paulus@...; Felix Karpfen; linux@...
> Subject: Re: [clug] More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee
> contraption - photos
>
> Hiya,
>
> > For those who may be interested, I've done a bit of a write up on the
> > power controlled coffee roaster at coffeesnobs. See:
> >
> > http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1259627838
> >
> > It also includes a link to a much better circuit diagram than what I
> > showed at CLUG. Thanks to Hugh for the work on drawing up the
> circuit!
>
> Should add am going to take a crack at a PCB layout for the board in
> the next
> week or so and then we'll prolly organise to get a small run of boards
> done.
>
> Cheers,
> Hugh
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Re: More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee contraption - photos

2009-11-30T16:54:27Z

Hiya,

> For those who may be interested, I've done a bit of a write up on the
> power controlled coffee roaster at coffeesnobs. See:
>
> http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1259627838
>
> It also includes a link to a much better circuit diagram than what I
> showed at CLUG. Thanks to Hugh for the work on drawing up the circuit!

Should add am going to take a crack at a PCB layout for the board in the next
week or so and then we'll prolly organise to get a small run of boards done.

Cheers,
Hugh
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More info, please - was Re: Tridge's coffee contraption - photos

2009-11-30T16:44:14Z

For those who may be interested, I've done a bit of a write up on the
power controlled coffee roaster at coffeesnobs. See:

http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1259627838

It also includes a link to a much better circuit diagram than what I
showed at CLUG. Thanks to Hugh for the work on drawing up the circuit!

Cheers, Tridge
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Re: Google Wave invites

2009-11-30T03:37:26Z

Same here, I have 16 invites, if anyone's after one just email me, off-list.

Fergus

Alex Satrapa wrote:

> On 30/11/2009, at 11:49 , Alastair D'Silva wrote:
>
>
>> I've got a few Google Wave invites to hand out - If anyone wants one, please
>> mail me off-list.
>>
>
> Me too. 20-odd invites available to me and a couple of my MMO characters (who got invites before me).
>
> Alex
>
>

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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-30T02:25:55Z

Hi Adam and Alaistair,

Alaistair as Adam has said we are keen to have some more workshop type
nights for dorkbot canberra next year so if you would like to run a
knowledge sharing workshop/s that pulls together hardware/software that
could possibly be used in an art and design project just let me know and
we can schedule it in to the program. We will run 11 sessions next year on
the last tuesday of the month Jan - November. I would just need a short
description of what you would want to do and a bio from whoever wants to
run the session.

More of what you did last week Adam would be great it would be good to mix
up artist presentations with more hands on material. I'm sure all in the
dorkbot canberra crew would be keen on this.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best,

Alex

> 2009/11/27 Alastair D'Silva <alastair@...>:
>> I have been contemplating starting an Australian maker community for a
>> couple of months now.
>
> There are a few pockets of people who have had similar ideas (myself
> included) but have not made much progress due to the fragmentation and
> (warning:generalisation ahead) insular nature of the communities in
> Canberra. I haven't been able to make it to CLUG meetings in a while
> due to have another commitment on Thursday nights and my introverted
> nature has meant I haven't put much signal out beyond my immediate
> friends.
>
>> I have considered Dorkbot http://dorkbotcbr.wordpress.com/ but their
>> focus
>> is too artsy for my taste - I prefer projects with more function.
>
> I've been attending the Dorkbot Cbr meetings for a few months now and
> there hasn't been a lot of maker type talks. I think this is largely
> due to the contacts that the organisers have and the backgrounds of
> the people attending. At the last meeting I gave a lightning talk on a
> project I'm working on (basically an Arduino+WaveShield+OptoSwitch)
> which was pretty well received. Alex, one of the organisers, said that
> she wanted to run some workshops in the new year which might be better
> suited to your taste and may even lean on your knowledge.
>
> Dorkbot might not be the right home for a Maker community but the
> organisers' are good people and it's worth letting them know what's
> going on and seeing if they are interested. I've CC'd Alex in to try
> and break some of the ice.
>
>> Given the growing interest in CLUG about maker oriented talks such as
>> Peter
>> & my Laser Engraver & Arduino talks, and now Tridge's coffee roaster, I
>> think bootstrapping the community via CLUG might be productive.
>
> There is clearly a lot of interest, skills and resources in the CLUG
> community in the Maker area. With some word of mouth/email
> advertisement I think it would be easy to pick up interest from other
> people and groups around Canberra.
>
>> Subject: Canberra/Australia maker community
>
> The Australian maker community is growing, a few hackerspaces dotted
> around the place are providing space and nutrients for incubation.
> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Australia. The Connected Community group
> in Melbourne is very active with a healthy LUG crossover. You may have
> met Jon Oxer (who's been writing the book "Practical Arduino") and his
> geeked out RX8 at Linux conferences around the place.
>

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[OFFTOPIC] Looking for a place to volunteer

2009-11-29T21:21:16Z

Hi everyone,

Firstly, apologies for hijacking the list for this purpose. I've tried
everything else I can think of, and now I'm resorting to spam. Feel
free to stop reading now if you want to.

I've been looking for somewhere to offer my time to over Christmas,
including Christmas Day itself. I was originally looking for a soup
kitchen or women's shelter, but I'm not fussy.

Do you know of an organisation or group (preferably non-religious)
that needs willing volunteers on or around Christmas Day? If you do,
please get me in touch!

If you're interested in reading more about the background behind this
request, there's a short post on my blog:
http://lanabrindley.blogspot.com/2009/11/spend-less-be-happy.html

Thanks, and apologies again for the noise.

Lana

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Re: Google Wave invites

2009-11-29T20:16:32Z

If you can't get rid of them, you can donate them here:

http://www.googlewaveinfo.com/200911/do-you-have-extra-invites-share-them-heres-how/

(I gave away my last lot this way, and they were gone within 24 hours).

L

2009/11/30 Alex Satrapa <grail@...>:

> On 30/11/2009, at 11:49 , Alastair D'Silva wrote:
>
>> I've got a few Google Wave invites to hand out - If anyone wants one, please
>> mail me off-list.
>
> Me too. 20-odd invites available to me and a couple of my MMO characters (who got invites before me).
>
> Alex
>
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Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-
bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the
road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: Google Wave invites

2009-11-29T19:59:11Z

On 30/11/2009, at 11:49 , Alastair D'Silva wrote:

> I've got a few Google Wave invites to hand out - If anyone wants one, please
> mail me off-list.

Me too. 20-odd invites available to me and a couple of my MMO characters (who got invites before me).

Alex

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Re: Expresscard in Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)

2009-11-29T17:46:22Z

Grant Morphett <grant@...> writes:

> I borrowed a friends Expresscard TV Tuner just for a "quick" experiment to
> see what Ubuntu linux thought of it. Turns out nothing - nothing was
> reported in /var/log at all. A bit of searching tells me that the kernel
> module pciehp is required for expresscards to work but my ubuntu 9.10
> default kernel doesn't seem to have that module available.

One thing to be aware of: the ExpressCard slot has two connectors, one PCI
express with hotplug, and one USB 2.0. A whole lot of the ExpressCard devices
are actually *USB* devices, not PCIe.

You may be looking in the wrong place — or, perhaps not. I don't really know
much beyond that basic fact, but I figure it can't hurt to tell you what you
already know. ;)

Daniel

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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-29T17:10:21Z

> -----Original Message-----
> From: linux-bounces@... [mailto:linux-
> bounces@...] On Behalf Of Angus Gratton
> Sent: Monday, 30 November 2009 11:16 AM
> To: Geoff Swan
> Cc: linux@...
> Subject: Re: [clug] [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community
>
> Of course, daydreaming isn't the hard collective work required to
> actually make something happen, but I'd be very keen if there are a
> few other people interested in getting one running, and enough
> additional people interested in participating once it happens.
>

I'm interested too, and I'm happy to locate some of my gear there for others
to use (since I don't have a suitable workshop at home):

130A Stick welder
40W Laser engraver
Desktop CNC mill
Tile cutter
Drill Press
+various other small bits and pieces

To go forward on Hackerspace, we'd need a lot more though, most importantly,
a workarea.

Lets take the discussion to the forums, as Adam has already made moves over
there (and it will reduce the noise on the CLUG list).
http://www.makehackvoid.com/forums/hackerspaces/canberra

Cheers,

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Re: Google Wave invites

2009-11-29T16:54:27Z

Google Wave invites

2009-11-29T16:49:42Z

I've got a few Google Wave invites to hand out - If anyone wants one, please
mail me off-list.

Cheers,

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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-29T16:16:19Z

On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Geoff Swan <shinobi.jack@...> wrote:
> Don't know how I missed this thread, but I have been looking at various
> hackerspace websites across the net and wishing Canberra had one.

+1 for this. I've spent many hours daydreaming about what it would
take to start a proper Hackerspace in Canberra. I've been enviously
following the progress of the Sydney Hackerspace
(http://robotsanddinosaurs.org/).

Of course, daydreaming isn't the hard collective work required to
actually make something happen, but I'd be very keen if there are a
few other people interested in getting one running, and enough
additional people interested in participating once it happens.

- Angus
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Re: Expresscard in Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)

2009-11-29T14:04:32Z

From: Grant Morphett <grant@...>

> To: CLUG List <linux@...>
> Subject: [clug] Expresscard in Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)
> Message-ID:
> <b7673df50911282137n33ac9013vb82fed76020bf0b7@...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I borrowed a friends Expresscard TV Tuner just for a "quick" experiment to
> see what Ubuntu linux thought of it. Turns out nothing - nothing was
> reported in /var/log at all. A bit of searching tells me that the kernel
> module pciehp is required for expresscards to work but my ubuntu 9.10
> default kernel doesn't seem to have that module available. A bit more
> searching and it looks like the only way I'm gunna get that module is if I
> build the kernel myself and for this quick experiement its not worth it.
>
> Anybody else noticed this with expresscards or is my install an anomaly?
>
>

Which "Expresscard TV Tuner"?? (please).... HP, Leadtech Winfast,
Avermedia, Pinnacle, Startech... there are a few manufacturers that
release a product labelled "Expresscard".
You say the module is not in Ubuntu?? (so "/sudo updatedb; sudo locate
hcihp/" yields nothing??).
I don't have a running Ubuntu beside me at present... but I seem to
remember the module being present.... will have a look when I get back
to the workshop this evening.
Have you tried "/sudo mpdprobe hcihp/"????
Any chipset/board ids, /lspci/, /dmesg/, and /lsmod/ output would be
informative.

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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-29T04:36:29Z

Hi Folks,

Theres a preliminary site up at http://www.makehackvoid.com ready for you to
start filling with your projects.

Don't worry too much about the look and feel (there is still work to do
there). What I am interested in is broken functionality, difficult
navigation, missing categories, etc.

To get started, create an account, then click the "Post a new project" link
in the menu at the top of the screen.

Please leave your feedback and ideas as a comment on the following article:

http://www.makehackvoid.com/make-it/make-it-hack-it-void-it-site-todo

Cheers,

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Expresscard in Ubuntu 9.10 (Karmic Koala)

2009-11-28T21:37:24Z

I borrowed a friends Expresscard TV Tuner just for a "quick" experiment to
see what Ubuntu linux thought of it. Turns out nothing - nothing was
reported in /var/log at all. A bit of searching tells me that the kernel
module pciehp is required for expresscards to work but my ubuntu 9.10
default kernel doesn't seem to have that module available. A bit more
searching and it looks like the only way I'm gunna get that module is if I
build the kernel myself and for this quick experiement its not worth it.

Anybody else noticed this with expresscards or is my install an anomaly?

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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-28T16:32:21Z

This may be an interesting listen.
http://www.thelasthope.org/media/audio/64kbps/Building_Hacker_Spaces_Everywhere_Your_Excuses_are_Invalid.mp3

This link may be blocked and or monitored at some workplaces. They're
friendly hackers, really, they are!
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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-28T13:47:12Z

Don't know how I missed this thread, but I have been looking at various
hackerspace websites across the net and wishing Canberra had one. I have
wondered if CLUG may have had one hidden away somewhere given the number of
posters who quite obviously have maker tendencies... Anyway I couldn't help
getting a bit excited reading this thread. Count me in.

On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Hugh Blemings <hugh@...> wrote:

> Heya Alastair,
>
> Want me to set up the list, or did you already have something in mind ?
>
> Cheers,
> Hugh
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[OT] Free: Celeron D 2.4GHz CPU

2009-11-28T04:40:24Z

Free if anyone wants it, it needs a Socket 478 motherboard.

Cheers,

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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-27T21:02:59Z

Heya Alastair,

Want me to set up the list, or did you already have something in mind ?

Cheers,
Hugh
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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-27T14:13:06Z

OK, I've registered "makehackvoid.com" - as in "Make it, Hack it, Void it",
with makehack.com redirecting to it. Nothing up yet, but I'll push on and
get a mailing list, with Drupal for forums, blog, etc up tonight (maybe).

I'll poke Ruth (my wife, a usability consultant) to do some work on the IA
of the site. My initial thoughts having some high level categories for the
projects:
Make it: Projects where you build stuff
Hack it: Projects where you make stuff do other stuff
Void it: Teardowns, destruction, etc, just for the sake of knowing
Code it: Pure software projects
Learn it: Projects designed to teach & assist development

The idea is to let people put up their own projects in these categories,
ether hosted directly on the site, or with a description and links to their
own site (which I will probably do for my own projects). These would require
moderator approval before going live.

The forums would be a typical free-for-all. Theres a Drupal module for tying
the forums and mailing lists together, I might have a play with that too so
that the mailing list appears in the forums.

PS. If anyone is interested, I got my solar system installed on Thursday:
http://alastair.d-silva.org/15kw-solar-system-installed

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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-27T03:47:32Z

No point waiting, let's jump in!
(I've been wanting to see something like a Hackspace since I heard about
them last year)

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Hugh Blemings <hugh@...> wrote:

> Hiya,
>
> A timely post Alastair, good call :)
>
> > Given the growing interest in CLUG about maker oriented talks such as
> Peter
> > & my Laser Engraver & Arduino talks, and now Tridge's coffee roaster, I
> > think bootstrapping the community via CLUG might be productive.
>
> Yes, I think there is an element of "If you build it, they will come" to
> this.
>
> I'm certainly interested, between what I've heard/seen at CLUG, a visit to
> the
> Hackerspace in Dublin, a Makerbot waiting to be assembled in my shed and
> some
> Arduino stuff, tis the season for making :)
>
> If it thought worthwhile, to avoid cluttering the CLUG list I'll put my
> hand
> up to get a suitable mailing list up on ozlabs.org to foster further
> discussion ? maker-act maybe ? :)
>
> Or do we wait a bit and see ?
>
> Cheers,
> Hugh
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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-27T03:35:59Z

Hiya,

A timely post Alastair, good call :)

> Given the growing interest in CLUG about maker oriented talks such as Peter
> & my Laser Engraver & Arduino talks, and now Tridge's coffee roaster, I
> think bootstrapping the community via CLUG might be productive.

Yes, I think there is an element of "If you build it, they will come" to this.

I'm certainly interested, between what I've heard/seen at CLUG, a visit to the
Hackerspace in Dublin, a Makerbot waiting to be assembled in my shed and some
Arduino stuff, tis the season for making :)

If it thought worthwhile, to avoid cluttering the CLUG list I'll put my hand
up to get a suitable mailing list up on ozlabs.org to foster further
discussion ? maker-act maybe ? :)

Or do we wait a bit and see ?

Cheers,
Hugh
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Re: PCB printing - Queanbeyan

2009-11-27T03:27:12Z

Heya,

> A funny thing happened on the way home in the taxi. Turns out the driver
> works in a factory producing PCBs.
> http://www.lintek.com.au/contact.html
>
> Not sure what the prices would be for a small run, but it's worth asking.

As several folks have mentioned, Lintek are a little bit pricey but do
excellent work. I got the initial batch of some Arduino/DMX boards done there
mostly out of simplicity and supporting a local business - they were most
helpful.

In practice though, folk like PCBCart are quite a bit cheaper, but offshore.
That's what Jon used for the Practical Arduino boards etc.

Cheers,
Hugh
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[OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-27T00:21:38Z

Count me firmly IN on this idea!

http://hackspace.org.uk/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackerspace

Go go gadget makers!

--Adam

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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-26T23:24:01Z

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 03:59:24PM +1100, Adam Thomas did utter:

> >>
> >> There are a few pockets of people who have had similar ideas (myself
> >> included) but have not made much progress due to the fragmentation and
> >> (warning:generalisation ahead) insular nature of the communities in
> >> Canberra.
> >
> > I think insulated and fragmented communities is a better description of
> > the problem in bigger cities, where enough people with a common minor
> > interest can get together to make it work, but then split into more and
> > more subgroups (to use an on-topic example, I've heard of LUGs where the
> > RedHat people don't talk to the Debian people, etc). Canberra is small
> > enough that CLUG is barely on the "linux" topic as often as not, and is
> > arguably a fairly broad 'computer and technology enthusiasts'
> > collective.
>
> Those subgroups are more like forks of existing groups. It sounds like
> there once was communication but now it's actively avoided because of
> fallings out between members.

yeah, that's pretty much what I think of with 'fragmentation' :)
I think also there is just a case too that in bigger cities there are
enough people for more finely grained groups to emerge naturally too...

and that can be a good thing, and/or a bad thing, depending on your
needs and how it all works out...

> I think the situation in Canberra is more passive. People start new
> groups because they can't find existing groups which match their
> goals. There is lots of crossover potential but not a lot of
> communication. I _should_ have said "lets bring the groups together
> and see what happens" earlier but didn't for one reason or another.

*nods* I'm just saying that I don't think the communication issues are
Canberra specific. It's a problem with communities (and meta communities
more topically) at all scales. IMHO :)

I do hope that a community can be brought together though. The degree of
talent in Canberra is an untapped resource...

> > Rather, the problem I see in Canberra is that the people interested in
> > new projects are already spread thin between existing other communities,
> > so it's hard to find enough people who have the time/commitment to start
> > a new community to reach community population critical mass. ie, the
> > relevant people are all diluted across other communities.
>
> I'm currently spreading myself across a few communities because there
> isn't one that is dedicated to what I want to do, which is Make. I've
> seen a new community (CRESSIDA) start up to bring people interested in
> dark electronic music together because one of the organisers kept
> getting told by different people that there wasn't anyone to
> collaborate with. There has been enough interest for monthly meet and
> greets and there have been a handful of outcomes already.
>
> Canberra _can_ support multiple groups with either specific or broad
> interests. If there is enough communication between the groups,
> collaborations are likely to follow.

I've long said that Canberra is big enough to comfortably support
one[22] social group for any given subculture or interest group - just
sometimes it needs defining before people can coalesce around it.

.../Nemo

[22] sometimes more than one too, but I didn't seem to see that too
much. Of course depends on what you call a culture, subculture, etc[23]

[23] Cultural analysis is now... two degrees off topic? :/

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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-26T20:59:24Z

2009/11/27 Nemo Thorx <clug@...>:

> On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 02:35:32PM +1100, Adam Thomas did utter:
>>
>> There are a few pockets of people who have had similar ideas (myself
>> included) but have not made much progress due to the fragmentation and
>> (warning:generalisation ahead) insular nature of the communities in
>> Canberra.
>
> I think insulated and fragmented communities is a better description of
> the problem in bigger cities, where enough people with a common minor
> interest can get together to make it work, but then split into more and
> more subgroups (to use an on-topic example, I've heard of LUGs where the
> RedHat people don't talk to the Debian people, etc). Canberra is small
> enough that CLUG is barely on the "linux" topic as often as not, and is
> arguably a fairly broad 'computer and technology enthusiasts'
> collective.

Those subgroups are more like forks of existing groups. It sounds like
there once was communication but now it's actively avoided because of
fallings out between members.

I think the situation in Canberra is more passive. People start new
groups because they can't find existing groups which match their
goals. There is lots of crossover potential but not a lot of
communication. I _should_ have said "lets bring the groups together
and see what happens" earlier but didn't for one reason or another.

> Rather, the problem I see in Canberra is that the people interested in
> new projects are already spread thin between existing other communities,
> so it's hard to find enough people who have the time/commitment to start
> a new community to reach community population critical mass. ie, the
> relevant people are all diluted across other communities.

I'm currently spreading myself across a few communities because there
isn't one that is dedicated to what I want to do, which is Make. I've
seen a new community (CRESSIDA) start up to bring people interested in
dark electronic music together because one of the organisers kept
getting told by different people that there wasn't anyone to
collaborate with. There has been enough interest for monthly meet and
greets and there have been a handful of outcomes already.

Canberra _can_ support multiple groups with either specific or broad
interests. If there is enough communication between the groups,
collaborations are likely to follow.

>
> Or am I just describing the same thing using a different metaphor?
>
> In terms of 'making' though, I have been thinking about welding up some
> home-made 19" racks though of varying heights, for purpose of
> entertainment cabinet use, with some notes here:
> http://wiki.thorx.net/wiki/RackCabinet
>
> .../Nemo
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>

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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-26T20:22:27Z

On Fri, Nov 27, 2009 at 02:35:32PM +1100, Adam Thomas did utter:
>
> There are a few pockets of people who have had similar ideas (myself
> included) but have not made much progress due to the fragmentation and
> (warning:generalisation ahead) insular nature of the communities in
> Canberra.

I think insulated and fragmented communities is a better description of
the problem in bigger cities, where enough people with a common minor
interest can get together to make it work, but then split into more and
more subgroups (to use an on-topic example, I've heard of LUGs where the
RedHat people don't talk to the Debian people, etc). Canberra is small
enough that CLUG is barely on the "linux" topic as often as not, and is
arguably a fairly broad 'computer and technology enthusiasts'
collective.

Rather, the problem I see in Canberra is that the people interested in
new projects are already spread thin between existing other communities,
so it's hard to find enough people who have the time/commitment to start
a new community to reach community population critical mass. ie, the
relevant people are all diluted across other communities.

Or am I just describing the same thing using a different metaphor?

In terms of 'making' though, I have been thinking about welding up some
home-made 19" racks though of varying heights, for purpose of
entertainment cabinet use, with some notes here:
http://wiki.thorx.net/wiki/RackCabinet

.../Nemo
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Re: [OT] Canberra/Australia maker community

2009-11-26T19:35:32Z

2009/11/27 Alastair D'Silva <alastair@...>:
> I have been contemplating starting an Australian maker community for a
> couple of months now.

There are a few pockets of people who have had similar ideas (myself
included) but have not made much progress due to the fragmentation and
(warning:generalisation ahead) insular nature of the communities in
Canberra. I haven't been able to make it to CLUG meetings in a while
due to have another commitment on Thursday nights and my introverted
nature has meant I haven't put much signal out beyond my immediate
friends.

> I have considered Dorkbot http://dorkbotcbr.wordpress.com/ but their focus
> is too artsy for my taste - I prefer projects with more function.

I've been attending the Dorkbot Cbr meetings for a few months now and
there hasn't been a lot of maker type talks. I think this is largely
due to the contacts that the organisers have and the backgrounds of
the people attending. At the last meeting I gave a lightning talk on a
project I'm working on (basically an Arduino+WaveShield+OptoSwitch)
which was pretty well received. Alex, one of the organisers, said that
she wanted to run some workshops in the new year which might be better
suited to your taste and may even lean on your knowledge.

Dorkbot might not be the right home for a Maker community but the
organisers' are good people and it's worth letting them know what's
going on and seeing if they are interested. I've CC'd Alex in to try
and break some of the ice.

> Given the growing interest in CLUG about maker oriented talks such as Peter
> & my Laser Engraver & Arduino talks, and now Tridge's coffee roaster, I
> think bootstrapping the community via CLUG might be productive.

There is clearly a lot of interest, skills and resources in the CLUG
community in the Maker area. With some word of mouth/email
advertisement I think it would be easy to pick up interest from other
people and groups around Canberra.

> Subject: Canberra/Australia maker community

The Australian maker community is growing, a few hackerspaces dotted
around the place are providing space and nutrients for incubation.
http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Australia. The Connected Community group
in Melbourne is very active with a healthy LUG crossover. You may have
met Jon Oxer (who's been writing the book "Practical Arduino") and his
geeked out RX8 at Linux conferences around the place.
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