Samba with Windows XP client

[Timothy Murphy-5]

I'm running Samba on a Fedora machine,
and was hoping to access files on a Windows XP Pro client,
by "sudo mount -t cifs harriet:C /mnt/win".
This works OK, but I am not able to browse on the Windows machine.

Am I misunderstanding something about how Samba works?
Do I need to specify this Windows folder on the Linux box?
Or is there some step I am meant to take on the Windows machine,
beyond allowing File and Folder Sharing?

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tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

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[fred smith-5]

On Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 08:12:04PM +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> I'm running Samba on a Fedora machine,
> and was hoping to access files on a Windows XP Pro client,
> by "sudo mount -t cifs harriet:C /mnt/win".
> This works OK, but I am not able to browse on the Windows machine.
>
> Am I misunderstanding something about how Samba works?
> Do I need to specify this Windows folder on the Linux box?
> Or is there some step I am meant to take on the Windows machine,
> beyond allowing File and Folder Sharing?

I've done things like that, but find that I need to use some additional
mount options to pass along username and password for the share being
mounted. something like:

mount -t cifs -o user=me,password=mypassword //host/path /mnt/foobar

and possibly uid and gid as well, etc.

see "man mount.cifs" for gory details.


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[roland-38]

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:28:25 +0100, fred smith  
<fredex@...> wrote:

> On Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 08:12:04PM +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>> I'm running Samba on a Fedora machine,
>> and was hoping to access files on a Windows XP Pro client,
>> by "sudo mount -t cifs harriet:C /mnt/win".
>> This works OK, but I am not able to browse on the Windows machine.
>>
>> Am I misunderstanding something about how Samba works?
>> Do I need to specify this Windows folder on the Linux box?
>> Or is there some step I am meant to take on the Windows machine,
>> beyond allowing File and Folder Sharing?
>
> I've done things like that, but find that I need to use some additional
> mount options to pass along username and password for the share being
> mounted. something like:
>
> mount -t cifs -o user=me,password=mypassword //host/path /mnt/foobar
>
> and possibly uid and gid as well, etc.
>
> see "man mount.cifs" for gory details.
>
>

also if you want read-write permission

mount -t cifs -o user=me,password=mypassword,rw  //host/path /mnt/foobar

default is rw but this seems not to be the case sometimes. Don't ask me why

Roland

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[Bengt-Erik Soderstrom]

  There is, perhaps, an easier way:
Use the Gnome desktop. Click Places in the menu. Click Network. Find
your Windows computer. <Windows-Network> then Resource <MSHome> then the
computer name <MyComputer> and voila: You have access to all the files
you have defined to be shared on your Windows computer! Of course,
resource name and computer name will most certainly be different for you.


roland wrote:

> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:28:25 +0100, fred smith
> <fredex@...> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 08:12:04PM +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>>> I'm running Samba on a Fedora machine,
>>> and was hoping to access files on a Windows XP Pro client,
>>> by "sudo mount -t cifs harriet:C /mnt/win".
>>> This works OK, but I am not able to browse on the Windows machine.
>>>
>>> Am I misunderstanding something about how Samba works?
>>> Do I need to specify this Windows folder on the Linux box?
>>> Or is there some step I am meant to take on the Windows machine,
>>> beyond allowing File and Folder Sharing?
>>
>> I've done things like that, but find that I need to use some additional
>> mount options to pass along username and password for the share being
>> mounted. something like:
>>
>> mount -t cifs -o user=me,password=mypassword //host/path /mnt/foobar
>>
>> and possibly uid and gid as well, etc.
>>
>> see "man mount.cifs" for gory details.
>>
>>
> also if you want read-write permission
>
> mount -t cifs -o user=me,password=mypassword,rw  //host/path /mnt/foobar
>
> default is rw but this seems not to be the case sometimes. Don't ask
> me why
>
> Roland
>

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[fred smith-5]

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 12:01:13AM +0100, Bengt-Erik Soderstrom wrote:
>  There is, perhaps, an easier way:
> Use the Gnome desktop. Click Places in the menu. Click Network. Find
> your Windows computer. <Windows-Network> then Resource <MSHome> then the
> computer name <MyComputer> and voila: You have access to all the files
> you have defined to be shared on your Windows computer! Of course,
> resource name and computer name will most certainly be different for you.

Please don't top-post...

in theory what you suggest should work. but I've certainly had plenty
of cases where for reasons unknown to me I couldn't browse to a
particular machine or share, but could manually mount it just fine.

>
>
> roland wrote:
> >On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:28:25 +0100, fred smith
> ><fredex@...> wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, Nov 02, 2009 at 08:12:04PM +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> >>>I'm running Samba on a Fedora machine,
> >>>and was hoping to access files on a Windows XP Pro client,
> >>>by "sudo mount -t cifs harriet:C /mnt/win".
> >>>This works OK, but I am not able to browse on the Windows machine.
> >>>
> >>>Am I misunderstanding something about how Samba works?
> >>>Do I need to specify this Windows folder on the Linux box?
> >>>Or is there some step I am meant to take on the Windows machine,
> >>>beyond allowing File and Folder Sharing?
> >>
> >>I've done things like that, but find that I need to use some additional
> >>mount options to pass along username and password for the share being
> >>mounted. something like:
> >>
> >>mount -t cifs -o user=me,password=mypassword //host/path /mnt/foobar
> >>
> >>and possibly uid and gid as well, etc.
> >>
> >>see "man mount.cifs" for gory details.
> >>
> >>
> >also if you want read-write permission
> >
> >mount -t cifs -o user=me,password=mypassword,rw  //host/path /mnt/foobar
> >
> >default is rw but this seems not to be the case sometimes. Don't ask
> >me why
> >
> >Roland
> >
>
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[Jud Craft]

> in theory what you suggest should work. but I've certainly had plenty
> of cases where for reasons unknown to me I couldn't browse to a
> particular machine or share, but could manually mount it just fine.

I second this.  I have -never- gotten Windows Network browsing to work
reliably, under either the latest versions of Ubuntu or Fedora.  And
that's after browsing through numerous Samba packages and firewall
settings posts for both distros (although at least Fedora has that
handy Samba toggle in system-config-firewall).

For the lay person, it's just unconquerable.  Being able to integrate
into the local network should be a default feature for desktop users,
with little to no configuration needed.

Heck, I can't even get Gnome's User File Sharing to work between
Ubuntu and Fedora unless I completely deactivate the firewalls -- and
Fedora doesn't come with the correct packages installed by default;
you have to hunt down certain Apache and DAV packages yourself before
you can activate the -built-in- file sharing!

Couple this with bugreports that GVFS (the new GNOME filesystem
library) can't do logins to certain Windows domains, WebDAV using NTLM
(a type of Windows authentication that has been successfully
implemented elsewhere), or support different profiles (like read-only
Guest, but read-write requires a real account on the target PC) and
network-sharing is just a pain in the arse.

I apologize for the bitterness.

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[Tim-163]

On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 23:01 -0500, Jud Craft wrote:
> I second this.  I have -never- gotten Windows Network browsing to work
> reliably, under either the latest versions of Ubuntu or Fedora.  And
> that's after browsing through numerous Samba packages and firewall
> settings posts for both distros (although at least Fedora has that
> handy Samba toggle in system-config-firewall).

Chances are that there are some SELinux booleans that you need to
change, as well.  Which would be, for good security reasons, not allowed
by default; because that sort of slackness is why Windows is always full
of security flaws.

But it has to be said that Windows networking can be a nightmare in its
native environment.  After fault finding other people's systems, I've
reached the conclusion that it's been badly designed, and never sensibly
fixed up.

> Heck, I can't even get Gnome's User File Sharing to work between
> Ubuntu and Fedora unless I completely deactivate the firewalls -- and
> Fedora doesn't come with the correct packages installed by default;
> you have to hunt down certain Apache and DAV packages yourself before
> you can activate the -built-in- file sharing!

Hmm, yeah, and it's not helped by a lack of documentation that explains
how it's supposed to work, so you can figure out how to make it work.

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[Jud Craft]

> But it has to be said that Windows networking can be a nightmare in its
> native environment.  After fault finding other people's systems, I've
> reached the conclusion that it's been badly designed, and never sensibly
> fixed up.

I'd agree with this almost completely, with about one exception:  Apple.

No one has ever integrated their user desktop with a competitor's
network environment better.  :)  Heck, probably better than real
Windows PCs.

At the very least, it would be lovely if Fedora user desktops could
reliably network with -themselves-.

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[Tim-163]

On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 00:55 -0500, Jud Craft wrote:
> At the very least, it would be lovely if Fedora user desktops could
> reliably network with -themselves-.

I use NFS for that, works brilliantly.  I see no point in adding the
foibles of Samba into my computer networking.  Though, long ago when I
did play with Samba, I noticed there were some additional features for
making it work with other Linux boxes in a more Linux way (e.g. using
Linux permissions normally).

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[Timothy Murphy-5]

Bengt-Erik Soderstrom wrote:

> There is, perhaps, an easier way:
> Use the Gnome desktop. Click Places in the menu. Click Network. Find
> your Windows computer. <Windows-Network> then Resource <MSHome> then the
> computer name <MyComputer> and voila: You have access to all the files
> you have defined to be shared on your Windows computer! Of course,
> resource name and computer name will most certainly be different for you.

Is there a KDE equivalent?


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e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

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[Aaron Konstam]

On Mon, 2009-11-02 at 23:01 -0500, Jud Craft wrote:

> > in theory what you suggest should work. but I've certainly had plenty
> > of cases where for reasons unknown to me I couldn't browse to a
> > particular machine or share, but could manually mount it just fine.
>
> I second this.  I have -never- gotten Windows Network browsing to work
> reliably, under either the latest versions of Ubuntu or Fedora.  And
> that's after browsing through numerous Samba packages and firewall
> settings posts for both distros (although at least Fedora has that
> handy Samba toggle in system-config-firewall).
>
> For the lay person, it's just unconquerable.  Being able to integrate
> into the local network should be a default feature for desktop users,
> with little to no configuration needed.
>
> Heck, I can't even get Gnome's User File Sharing to work between
> Ubuntu and Fedora unless I completely deactivate the firewalls -- and
> Fedora doesn't come with the correct packages installed by default;
> you have to hunt down certain Apache and DAV packages yourself before
> you can activate the -built-in- file sharing!
>
> Couple this with bugreports that GVFS (the new GNOME filesystem
> library) can't do logins to certain Windows domains, WebDAV using NTLM
> (a type of Windows authentication that has been successfully
> implemented elsewhere), or support different profiles (like read-only
> Guest, but read-write requires a real account on the target PC) and
> network-sharing is just a pain in the arse.
>
> I apologize for the bitterness.
>

What is interesting is that the disk on my Wife's XP machine shows up by
default under the Computer icon on my desktop. I never did anything
consciously to put it there.
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[Marko Vojinovic-3]

On Tuesday 03 November 2009 13:56:03 Timothy Murphy wrote:
> Bengt-Erik Soderstrom wrote:
> > There is, perhaps, an easier way:
> > Use the Gnome desktop. Click Places in the menu. Click Network. Find
> > your Windows computer. <Windows-Network> then Resource <MSHome> then the
> > computer name <MyComputer> and voila: You have access to all the files
> > you have defined to be shared on your Windows computer! Of course,
> > resource name and computer name will most certainly be different for you.
>
> Is there a KDE equivalent?

Open Dolphin, choose menu View -> Panels -> Places (or press F9). A "places"
panel opens up on the left side of the window. From there, browse Network ->
Samba Shares -> your workgroup -> your Windows machine.

It should Just Work. At least it does for me.

HTH, :-)
Marko

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[Timothy Murphy-5]

roland wrote:

>>> I'm running Samba on a Fedora machine,
>>> and was hoping to access files on a Windows XP Pro client,
>>> by "sudo mount -t cifs harriet:C /mnt/win".
>>> This works OK, but I am not able to browse on the Windows machine.
>>>
>>> Am I misunderstanding something about how Samba works?
>>> Do I need to specify this Windows folder on the Linux box?
>>> Or is there some step I am meant to take on the Windows machine,
>>> beyond allowing File and Folder Sharing?
>>
>> I've done things like that, but find that I need to use some additional
>> mount options to pass along username and password for the share being
>> mounted. something like:

> also if you want read-write permission
>
> mount -t cifs -o user=me,password=mypassword,rw  //host/path /mnt/foobar
>
> default is rw but this seems not to be the case sometimes. Don't ask me
> why

Thanks for all the suggestions.
I've tried the above command, but the result is exactly the same.
I can connect to harriet:C , say, but when I browse
eg to Documents and Settings\tim
permission to list is refused.

However, I can list Documents and Settings\Default User .

In general, I am completely confused by the Windows setup.
For example, I have two shares, EAGC and EAGD, on drives C and D.
As far as I can see, the setup on these drives and shares is identical;
but I can mount and access share EAGD, but not EAGC (as seen below).

Having experimented for a time,
I've come to the conclusion that my problem lies in the Windows machine,
and not in the Linux Samba server.
I suspect the solution may lie in trying to set up a Windows network
involving 2 Windows machines.
Also, I've been using a Windows Workgroup, I could try to set up a Domain.

Incidentally, the reason I have been trying to setup Samba
is to backup the Windows machine with BackupPC running on my Linux server.
(This works perfectly in backing up Linux machines.)

-----------------------------------------
[root@helen ~]# mount -t cifs -o user=tim,password=****,rw  //harriet/C
/mnt/win
[root@helen ~]# cd /mnt/win
[root@helen win]# ls
17a7ba471958c0ae38b1428af3cefc4d  Config.Msi              IO.SYS    
MSOCache      ProgramData                WINDOWS
AUTOEXEC.BAT                      CONFIG.SYS              logs      
NTDETECT.COM  Program Files
$AVG8.VAULT$                      Documents and Settings  log.txt    ntldr        
RECYCLER
boot.ini                          hiberfil.sys            MSDOS.SYS  
pagefile.sys  System Volume Information
[root@helen win]# cd Documents\ and\ Settings/
[root@helen Documents and Settings]# ls
All Users  Default User  deirdre  LocalService  NetworkService  roisin  tim
[root@helen Documents and Settings]# ls tim
ls: reading directory tim: Permission denied
[root@helen Documents and Settings]# ls Default\ User/
Application Data  Desktop    Local Settings  NetHood     NTUSER.DAT.LOG  
Recent  Start Menu
Cookies           Favorites  My Documents    NTUSER.DAT  PrintHood      
SendTo  Templates
[root@helen Documents and Settings]# cd
[root@helen ~]# umount /mnt/win
[root@helen ~]# mount -t cifs -o user=tim,password=****,rw  //harriet/EAGD
/mnt/win
[root@helen ~]# ls /mnt/win
The Sims 2
[root@helen ~]# umount /mnt/win
[root@helen ~]# mount -t cifs -o user=tim,password=rOisin,rw  //harriet/EAGC
/mnt/win
mount error 13 = Permission denied
Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g.man mount.cifs)
-----------------------------------------

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tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

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[Dave Ihnat]

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 03:35:28PM +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> Thanks for all the suggestions.
> I've tried the above command, but the result is exactly the same.
> I can connect to harriet:C , say, but when I browse
> eg to Documents and Settings\tim
> permission to list is refused.

You have to make sure that permissions on the Windows box allow the
user/password with which you mounted the drive to access the folder(s)
on the remote machine.  It sounds as if that's not the case.

On the Windows box, set the Administrator password (XP Pro), or make
sure your account has administrative rights (XP Home).

Then make sure that account--Administrator, or your account--has full
rights on all files/folders on the drive.  This is more problematic on
XP Home machines, since you don't have the full security model available
to you.

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[Timothy Murphy-5]

Dave Ihnat wrote:

>> I've tried the above command, but the result is exactly the same.
>> I can connect to harriet:C , say, but when I browse
>> eg to Documents and Settings\tim
>> permission to list is refused.
>
> You have to make sure that permissions on the Windows box allow the
> user/password with which you mounted the drive to access the folder(s)
> on the remote machine.  It sounds as if that's not the case.

Thanks for the response.
What puzzles me is that I never have any problem
accessing all files and folders if I login on the Windows machine
(with the same name and password that I use in Samba).

I must admit I don't understand the Windows XP Pro permission setup;
Can you suggest a document that describes this?

> On the Windows box, set the Administrator password (XP Pro), or make
> sure your account has administrative rights (XP Home).
>
> Then make sure that account--Administrator, or your account--has full
> rights on all files/folders on the drive.  This is more problematic on
> XP Home machines, since you don't have the full security model available
> to you.

How exactly does one determine if one has "full rights" on a folder?
Doesn't the fact that I can browse through a folder on the Windows machine
show that I have full rights on the folder?

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[Dave Ihnat]

On Tue, Nov 03, 2009 at 10:28:04PM +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> Thanks for the response.
> What puzzles me is that I never have any problem
> accessing all files and folders if I login on the Windows machine
> (with the same name and password that I use in Samba).

If that's the case, then I suspect Samba's not connecting with the
credentials we think it's supposed to use.

> I must admit I don't understand the Windows XP Pro permission setup;
> Can you suggest a document that describes this?

Heh.  No; I've learned (painfully) over the years.  However, googling
with "NTFS permissions explained" will give you a number of overviews
and tutorials.

> How exactly does one determine if one has "full rights" on a folder?
> Doesn't the fact that I can browse through a folder on the Windows machine
> show that I have full rights on the folder?

You'd think.  Right-click on a folder--if you're running XP Pro, you can
then click on the "Security" tab.  That'll show who has permissions, and what
permissions.  For XP Home, it's not as easy.  The first place to look
might be:

  http://tweakhound.com/xp/xpperm/xpPerm1.htm

Do this after you've looked at some of the permissions tutorials.

Another thing--you may want to get Webmin.  Yeah, yeah--real
{Uni|Linu}xHeads Use The Command Line, and eat config files for
breakfast.  Nevertheless, Webmin can give you a real leg up in
configuring services, including Samba; you can then go read the config
files generated to figure out what it's really doing.

Cheers,
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[Tim-163]

On Tue, 2009-11-03 at 22:28 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> Doesn't the fact that I can browse through a folder on the Windows
> machine show that I have full rights on the folder?

It only requires partial rights to just be able to read a folder, more
rights are involved if you're allowed to write to a folder.  So, no.

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[Timothy Murphy-5]

Dave Ihnat wrote:

>> How exactly does one determine if one has "full rights" on a folder?
>> Doesn't the fact that I can browse through a folder on the Windows
>> machine show that I have full rights on the folder?
>
> You'd think.  Right-click on a folder--if you're running XP Pro, you can
> then click on the "Security" tab.  That'll show who has permissions, and
> what
> permissions.

I am running XP Pro with SP3 (as specified by Control Panel=>System).
But if I right click on a folder I see a "Sharing and Security" tab
(not a "Security" tab) but this gives no information on who has permissions.
Nor does right-clicking again, and going to Properties=>Sharing.

In both cases, I have checked "Share this folder on the network"
and "Allow network users to change my files",
and given a Share name with no spaces or unusual characters.

--
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

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[Timothy Murphy-5]

Tim wrote:

>> Doesn't the fact that I can browse through a folder on the Windows
>> machine show that I have full rights on the folder?
>
> It only requires partial rights to just be able to read a folder, more
> rights are involved if you're allowed to write to a folder.  So, no.

OK.
But I don't actually want to write on the Windows machine,
unless that is required somehow by Samba.
As I mentioned, my only reason for setting up Samba
is to backup the Windows machine on my Linux server.

Incidentally, I notice that both folders in question
(one of which I can browse with Samba, and the other not)
have "Read-only" checked, and I am apparently unable to uncheck this.
If I do so, then when I leave the folder, and re-enter,
I see that Read-only is checked again.


--
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net
tel: [phone]
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

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[Tim-163]

On Wed, 2009-11-04 at 11:20 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> I don't actually want to write on the Windows machine,
> unless that is required somehow by Samba.
> As I mentioned, my only reason for setting up Samba
> is to backup the Windows machine on my Linux server.

You probably don't need it to be writeable, though something might want
to update the "file was last opened date," and/or change the archive bit
(does Windows still do that?), but it doesn't actually have to do those
things when copying files.

> Incidentally, I notice that both folders in question
> (one of which I can browse with Samba, and the other not)
> have "Read-only" checked, and I am apparently unable to uncheck this.

Where are you trying to undo the read-only setting?  Locally on the
machine that's sharing the resource, or on the remote one that's
accessing it?  Without some special Samba interactivity, I don't expect
the Linux box to be able to remotely change the permissions on the
Windows box.  And you might need admin privileges to change them on the
Windows (depending on how it was made read-only, or who by).

If you share out something as read-only, you've set a limit on what can
be done with the resource, remotely.

Not that I particularly know how to resolve these things, as I'm well
out of practice with Windows, but someone else might once you give them
a fuller description.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.  I
read messages from the public lists.



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