Score Alignment Utility

[john ffitch]

>>>>> "Jacob" == Jacob Joaquin <jacobjoaquin@...> writes:

 Jacob> Here are somethings I think we should consider, but not necessarily
 Jacob> implement.

 Jacob> -Messages should be written to <stdout> instead of <stderr>.

NO; that is not right.  Error messages should be written to stderr on
account of buffering and separation of results from commentary

 Jacob> -0dbfs should be set to 1.0 by default.  Hard coding to a range of +/- 32768
 Jacob> should be considered bad practice.

Breaks too many pieces

 Jacob> -Every new feature that is intended to go into Csound should be spec'd out,
 Jacob> and with extensive community input.  Since backwards compatibility is a
 Jacob> staple of Csound culture, I think it would be wise to start doing this
 Jacob> immediately.

What makes you think this does not happen?  But developers develop what
they want; otherwise they would do nothing

 Jacob> -Debate the merits breaking backwards compatibility in Csound6.  What would
 Jacob> lose?  What could we gain? Could a script be written to convert from the old
 Jacob> to new? Or perhaps a guide showing how to update older pieces?

We lose a lot of music.  Having worked on the Varese Poeme I realise
how bad this is

 Jacob> -Csound Core might be a priorty, with a focus on getting it up and running
 Jacob> fast and easy.

Maybe

 Jacob> -Defragment the Csound knowledge base.  There is a lot of scattered
 Jacob> information out.  On top of this, much of it is deprecated, which can be
 Jacob> very confusing for beginners and power users.

Just Do IT

 Jacob> -Community should find ways of putting more emphasis on music and art.  We
 Jacob> often live in our own little worlds and only come together when it comes to
 Jacob> technical related issues.

This sounds like a Motherhood remark.  What do you mean?

 Jacob> -Look at everything and ask ourselves, "Can this be done better?"  For
 Jacob> example, $ csound outputs a list of flags and extras 55 lines long.  Would
 Jacob> this be better if reduced the list of flags to only the most common flags?
 Jacob> And then emphasize --help.

Of course we do this;  for some values of better.

 Jacob> -Bring the sexy back.  Superficially speaking, we live in a world where
 Jacob> people find Wine tastes better if it comes out of an expensive looking
 Jacob> bottle.  Csound looks like it's being consumed from a straw sticking out of
 Jacob> a paper bag, despite being an excellent vintage.

As a wine drinker I think the best wine comes from the best grape
varieties, created by the best craftsmen.  If it costs less that is
part of being best.  

 Jacob> -User test everything, just to be sure. Just because someone may seem like a
 Jacob> no brainer to one person, doesn't mean it isn't really confusing to everyone
 Jacob> else. I've seen many examples in various online tech communities where some
 Jacob> explains something, and leaves out important details because he or she
 Jacob> assumes that everyone knows what the know.

No one has ever volunteered to be a tester; one of the dullest parts
of software.  OTOH it i tested frequently

 Jacob> Off the top of my head.

No comment

==John ffitch


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[Felipe Sateler]

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 14:50, jpff<jpff@...> wrote:
>>>>>> "Jacob" == Jacob Joaquin <jacobjoaquin@...> writes:
>
>  Jacob> Here are somethings I think we should consider, but not necessarily
>  Jacob> implement.
>
>  Jacob> -Messages should be written to <stdout> instead of <stderr>.
>
> NO; that is not right.  Error messages should be written to stderr on
> account of buffering and separation of results from commentary

It depends on what you call error messages. Messages that are printed
as part of normal operation should go to stdout. If no errors or
warnings have occurred, stderr should be empty.

Saludos,
Felipe Sateler


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[Jacob Joaquin]

I would imagine something like '$ csound --help' is not an error.  The goes against the widely accepted norm, and prevents common operations such as '$ csound --help | grep midi' from working as expected.  Certainly, grepping midi can be accomplished with '$ csound --help 2>&1 | grep midi', but how many other *nix apps work like this?  I've never run across any others.

Why fight against decades of *nix standard practice?

Best,
Jake

Felipe Sateler wrote:

On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 14:50, jpff<[e-mail]> wrote:
>>>>>> "Jacob" == Jacob Joaquin <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>  Jacob> Here are somethings I think we should consider, but not necessarily
>  Jacob> implement.
>
>  Jacob> -Messages should be written to <stdout> instead of <stderr>.
>
> NO; that is not right.  Error messages should be written to stderr on
> account of buffering and separation of results from commentary

It depends on what you call error messages. Messages that are printed
as part of normal operation should go to stdout. If no errors or
warnings have occurred, stderr should be empty.

Saludos,
Felipe Sateler


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[Andy Fillebrown]

----- "jpff" <jpff@...> wrote:

>  Jacob> -Debate the merits breaking backwards compatibility in
> Csound6.  What would
>  Jacob> lose?  What could we gain? Could a script be written to
> convert from the old
>  Jacob> to new? Or perhaps a guide showing how to update older pieces?
>
>
> We lose a lot of music.  Having worked on the Varese Poeme I realise
> how bad this is
>
>  Jacob> -Csound Core might be a priorty, with a focus on getting it up
> and running
>  Jacob> fast and easy.
>
> Maybe

I'm currently using the Csound api on Windows using C++ and Qt.  Following Art's advice I've been able to make the existing Csound distrubution as core as I need it to be, so I don't feel like a whole lot of time needs to be spent making it "more" core.  Learning it was different than what I'm used to but that was only a short-term issue easily dealt with on my end (i.e. I just kept trying things and asking questions until it worked).  My experiences with Csound now are great!  It's meeting my needs and exceeding them now that I'm over the hump.  I'm now on my way towards wrapping the commonly used Csound api calls in Qt classes -- which I'm hoping will eventually meet Andres's needs for QuteCsound, too.


>  Jacob> -Defragment the Csound knowledge base.  There is a lot of
> scattered
>  Jacob> information out.  On top of this, much of it is deprecated,
> which can be
>  Jacob> very confusing for beginners and power users.
>
> Just Do IT

I'd like to help with Csound's web presence, preferably centering efforts around the sourceforge site.  The first thing I'd like to do is pretty up the home-page at http://csound.sourceforge.net/ -- may I have permission?

Regards,
-andy.f



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[john ffitch]

>>>>> "Andy" == Andy Fillebrown <andy@...> writes:

 Andy> I'd like to help with Csound's web presence, preferably centering
 Andy> efforts around the sourceforge site.  The first thing I'd like to
 Andy> do is pretty up the home-page at http://csound.sourceforge.net/
 Andy> -- may I have permission?

I forget who was loking after the web pages; as far as I am concerned
any sensible improvements are welcome.  If you want to take this over,
and the previous maintainer (who ever that is) has no objectons.

You will need a Sourceforge user-id and tell me so I can add you to the
developer list.

==John ff




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[Steven Yi]

I think Anthony was maintaining the page, so a new maintainer is needed.

On 7/19/09, jpff <jpff@...> wrote:

>>>>>> "Andy" == Andy Fillebrown <andy@...> writes:
>
>  Andy> I'd like to help with Csound's web presence, preferably centering
>  Andy> efforts around the sourceforge site.  The first thing I'd like to
>  Andy> do is pretty up the home-page at http://csound.sourceforge.net/
>  Andy> -- may I have permission?
>
> I forget who was loking after the web pages; as far as I am concerned
> any sensible improvements are welcome.  If you want to take this over,
> and the previous maintainer (who ever that is) has no objectons.
>
> You will need a Sourceforge user-id and tell me so I can add you to the
> developer list.
>
> ==John ff
>
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body "unsubscribe
> csound"
>

--
Sent from my mobile device


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[Andy Fillebrown]

My sourceforge id is afillebrown.  My only intention at this point is to change the look and feel since the content appears up to date.  If anybody would like changes to the content, though, please let me know.  I will be more than happy to do this.

Regards,
-andy.f



----- "Steven Yi" <stevenyi@...> wrote:

> I think Anthony was maintaining the page, so a new maintainer is
> needed.
>
> > I forget who was loking after the web pages; as far as I am
> concerned
> > any sensible improvements are welcome.  If you want to take this
> over,
> > and the previous maintainer (who ever that is) has no objectons.
> >
> > You will need a Sourceforge user-id and tell me so I can add you to
> the
> > developer list.
> >
> > ==John ff
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Send bugs reports to this list.
> > To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body
> "unsubscribe
> > csound"
> >
>
> --
> Sent from my mobile device
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body
> "unsubscribe csound"

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[David Worrall]

Hi Andy. Thanks for doing this.
- Suggest: Drop the "News" section - information which is 18months old  
is not news and gives the false impression that nothing is happening.
- Make an overt connection to csounds.com - explaining what the  
relationship is between two sites.

- Is there a discussion anywhere about when/why/how to use the 32bit/
64bit/float/integer versions?
If so a link to that would be useful before doing a package download.


David

On 20/07/2009, at 1:30 AM, Andy Fillebrown wrote:

>
>
> My sourceforge id is afillebrown.  My only intention at this point  
> is to change the look and feel since the content appears up to  
> date.  If anybody would like changes to the content, though, please  
> let me know.  I will be more than happy to do this.
>
> Regards,
> -andy.f
>
>
>
> ----- "Steven Yi" <stevenyi@...> wrote:
>> I think Anthony was maintaining the page, so a new maintainer is
>> needed.
>>
>>> I forget who was loking after the web pages; as far as I am
>> concerned
>>> any sensible improvements are welcome.  If you want to take this
>> over,
>>> and the previous maintainer (who ever that is) has no objectons.
>>>
>>> You will need a Sourceforge user-id and tell me so I can add you to
>> the
>>> developer list.
>>>
>>> ==John ff
>>>

________________________________________________
Dr David Worrall.
- Experimental Polymedia:  www.avatar.com.au
- Education for Financial Independence: www.mindthemarkets.com.au
Australian research affiliations:
- Sonic Communications Research Group: creative.canberra.edu.au/scrg
- MARCS Auditory Laboratories: marcs.uws.edu.au







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[Jacob Joaquin]

David Worrall wrote:

- Make an overt connection to csounds.com - explaining what the  
relationship is between two sites.
...
- Is there a discussion anywhere about when/why/how to use the 32bit/
64bit/float/integer versions?
If so a link to that would be useful before doing a package download.

Perhaps a technical Csound wiki at sourceforge is in order.  There is has been much talk on the list lately about improving overall Csound documentation.  Providing a shared workspace in which Csounders can easily access and contribute would help organize such an effort.

One page I'd like to see in the wiki is a bug page, where users can quickly learn problems in the current release, or if they find one, report it.  There are also certain issues that keep popping up, such as the fact that i-events in the score only support a single string, named instruments included.

I recommend MediaWiki.
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki

Best,
Jake

[RoryWalsh]

I think it would be great to host a beginners wiki there. We already
have a great reference manual. Couple that with a user friendly wiki
designed for beginners and we could end up covering all bases. I know
there is the Csound wiki but having it on a non csound domain makes it
less obvious for beginners.

Rory.


2009/7/20 Jacob Joaquin <jacobjoaquin@...>:

>
>
> David Worrall wrote:
>>
>> - Make an overt connection to csounds.com - explaining what the
>> relationship is between two sites.
>> ...
>> - Is there a discussion anywhere about when/why/how to use the 32bit/
>> 64bit/float/integer versions?
>> If so a link to that would be useful before doing a package download.
>>
>
> Perhaps a technical Csound wiki at sourceforge is in order.  There is has
> been much talk on the list lately about improving overall Csound
> documentation.  Providing a shared workspace in which Csounders can easily
> access and contribute would help organize such an effort.
>
> One page I'd like to see in the wiki is a bug page, where users can quickly
> learn problems in the current release, or if they find one, report it.
> There are also certain issues that keep popping up, such as the fact that
> i-events in the score only support a single string, named instruments
> included.
>
> I recommend MediaWiki.
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
>
> Best,
> Jake
> --
> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Score-Alignment-Utility-tp24227460p24570707.html
> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body "unsubscribe csound"
>

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[xonox]

Hello,
My first post to this list...

As someone who used csound on and off for 8 to 10 years, what made it
difficult for me back then was the lack of examples in the manual.  I've
been back to csound recently and see that nearly every opcode has an
example.  This is something that really makes it easier.  I've managed
to do things i never thought i could do.  Most likely things that a
csound power-user would find pretty basic.  These examples are, in my
opinion, very important.

Csound is such a great tool yet it seems so unknown sometimes...

I agree that a bit more of beginner's documentation would be helpful.  
I'd also perhaps add a small example of a basic real time midi
controlled instrument.  It's what i like most about csound, the fact i
can control it from another software.  This made it easier for me at
first as the text-based score system didn't attract me much but the
synthesis power seemed great.

Perhaps the question of how to make it easier for beginners should be
asked in the beginner's forum of csounds.com ?

Have a nice day

xonox / quikphix

Rory Walsh wrote:

> I think it would be great to host a beginners wiki there. We already
> have a great reference manual. Couple that with a user friendly wiki
> designed for beginners and we could end up covering all bases. I know
> there is the Csound wiki but having it on a non csound domain makes it
> less obvious for beginners.
>
> Rory.
>
>
> 2009/7/20 Jacob Joaquin <jacobjoaquin@...>:
>  
>> David Worrall wrote:
>>    
>>> - Make an overt connection to csounds.com - explaining what the
>>> relationship is between two sites.
>>> ...
>>> - Is there a discussion anywhere about when/why/how to use the 32bit/
>>> 64bit/float/integer versions?
>>> If so a link to that would be useful before doing a package download.
>>>
>>>      
>> Perhaps a technical Csound wiki at sourceforge is in order.  There is has
>> been much talk on the list lately about improving overall Csound
>> documentation.  Providing a shared workspace in which Csounders can easily
>> access and contribute would help organize such an effort.
>>
>> One page I'd like to see in the wiki is a bug page, where users can quickly
>> learn problems in the current release, or if they find one, report it.
>> There are also certain issues that keep popping up, such as the fact that
>> i-events in the score only support a single string, named instruments
>> included.
>>
>> I recommend MediaWiki.
>> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki
>>
>> Best,
>> Jake
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Score-Alignment-Utility-tp24227460p24570707.html
>> Sent from the Csound - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>>
>> Send bugs reports to this list.
>> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body "unsubscribe csound"
>>
>>    
>
>
> Send bugs reports to this list.
> To unsubscribe, send email sympa@... with body "unsubscribe csound"
>  

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