Service Project Hours

[Matt Price]

Karen,

Joe is supposed to claim how many hours his Eagle Service Project took,
plus any other service hours that he has accumulated while a scout so
that they can report that in college.  It is all part of showing
evidence of a well rounded individual that all of the colleges are
looking for today.

Matt

Karen Mixon wrote:

>
>
> Why not report the service hours for the scout that is working on his
> own Eagle project?  At this point, he doesn't need them for rank, but
> I've had Eagle Scouts ask me for their service hours for college entry
> info.
>  
> Karen
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* "karwac@..." <karwac@...>
> *To:* TMTUG@...
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:08:29 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours
>
>     Bottom line friends, is that an Eagle Scout Project *is* an
> activity. TM's capability is that it maintains a *cumulative tally* of
> each scout's nights camped, service hours performed, miles hiked, etc.
> Whether or not to credit these figures to lower ranks is up to the
> individual involved. I personally set up Eagle Projects in the
> Activity Section like this: *Joe Scout Eagle Project - Work Session
> 1*. The time span of each session is the default "X" value credited to
> Scouts that participated. *BUT NOT JOE: _IT'S HIS PROJECT!_* Example
> WS 1- 9 AM to 3 PM (6 hrs=X marker). If Jim Scout only contributes
> 3hrs. for that session, change the X to a 3 and double click on Jim's
> name. Yer dun. For Work Session 2, open WS 1(edit), hit the combo
> button, and enter the numbers for WS 2, and continue as before. In
> this manner all the Work Sessions are linked. You'll have to get out
> the calculator when the project is finished and add up the total
> man-hours invested and create a nifty, concise little report that the
> Eagle Candidate can slip into his jacket. Each contributing scout (and
> leader for that matter) will have all his contributed service hours
> tracked and totaled in the TM program. That's how we roll.
>     Cheers-Don C
>     Troop 511
>     San Antonio, Tx.
>  
> In a message dated 6/9/2009 9:39:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> shamanlsn@yahoo. com writes:
>
>
>
>     Well, Ray, I beg to differ.  Service projects, Eagle or not, is a
>     Troop activity.  There is nothing stated that I can find which
>     says differently.  The only thing I found, which is in the videos
>     for the early rank requirements for Second and First Class, lists
>     service projects as one of the items they can count.  There is no
>     mention as to whether it is a Troop general project or an Eagle
>     project.  And as far as  I know, only a Boy Scout (or a Venturer)
>     can have an Eagle Project.  And if the Scout having the project is
>     in your troop, I would consider that a Troop activity.
>      
>     If you can give a specific place to look stating that I am wrong,
>     I would be more than willing to change my opinion.
>      
>     http://www.scouting .org/scoutsource /Applications/ RankVideo.
>     aspx <http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/Applications/RankVideo.aspx>
>     David
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Ray Miessler <ray@miessler. net>
>     *To:* TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:43:45 PM
>     *Subject:* RE: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours
>
>     I think if you check the BSA policies, you'll find out that you
>     cannot count and Eagle Service project as a Troop activity.  You
>     should not be checking the credit to 2nd/1st class on an Eagle
>     service project.
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* TMTUG@yahoogroups. com [mailto:TMTUG@ yahoogroups. com]
>     *On Behalf Of *David Wildschuetz
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, June 09, 2009 3:52 PM
>     *To:* TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
>     *Subject:* Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours
>
>     Actually, it depends on how you want count each day as a seperate
>     activity for 2nd Class and 1st Class activity requirements.  If
>     you combine each day as one activity, the Scout only gets counted
>     as one activity as far as TroopMaster is concerned.  If the young
>     Tenderfoot shows up for 3 days of a 5 day project, would you not
>     want to count it as three seperate activities towards Second Class?
>      
>     Just a thought for consideration.
>     David
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* M Derleth <mderleth@yahoo. com>
>     *To:* TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, June 9, 2009 2:45:06 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours
>
>     Matthew:
>
>     It's actually not important to enter the time on each day for
>     99.5% of the Scouts. The requirement says X hours while a <rank>
>     Scout.  Only if a Scout was having a board of review and advancing
>     during the work phase of a project would hours spent on different
>     days matter.  This would most often come into play if there was a
>     multi-week or month delay between starting work and completing the
>     work.
>
>     Our troop records <start date of project>  <total hours spent by
>     Scout>. Works fine. Saves a lot of wear and tear on adults.
>
>     Michael Derleth
>     ASM T14 / Oregon / Eagle Scout
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* Matthew Baynard <matthew.baynard@ troop44bushkill. org>
>     *To:* TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
>     *Sent:* Tuesday, June 9, 2009 10:42:02 AM
>     *Subject:* [TMTUG] Service Project Hours
>
>
>
>     Question for the group.  When we enter service project hours for
>     the boys who have worked on Eagle Projects, we’re not sure what is
>     best, to enter the time as a total at the end of the Eagle project
>     or to enter them on the days that the work is done.  I know its
>     important to enter the time on the day its done since some ranks
>     need service hours to be completed while in that rank.  Is there a
>     way to enter this multiple dates for one entry in activities?  The
>     manual really doesn’t talk about this one.
>
>      
>
>     Regards,
>
>      
>
>     Matthew Baynard
>     Troop 44 - Bushkill Township
>     Assistant Scoutmaster & Webmaster
>     matthew.baynard@ troop44bushkill. org
>     www.troop44bushkill .org <http://www.troop44bushkill.org/>
>
>      
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar
> <http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004>
> for local deals at your fingertips.
>

[Ray Miessler]

Service performed as part of their ordeal is for OA ordeal and is not
counted as service hours also in this case.  
 
Same as service hours counted towards Cit in the Comm merit badge is not
also counted towards say a rank service project requirement also.

  _____  

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
Karen Mixon
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:23 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours






I'm interested also.  While we're on the subject...how about service
performed at an OA ordeal?  I wasn't able to find anything about crediting
toward their regular service time.
 
Karen


  _____  

From: Matt Price <admyank@...>
To: TMTUG@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:22:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours



Ray,

Please state in the BSA guidelines where this can be found.  If you have an
exact guideline that you are referencing, please let us know so that we can
reference the information.

My wife has never heard of a guideline that states such.

Matt

[Matt Price]

Karen,

I can successfully answer this - The OA is an organization that supports
summer camps, etc.   It would be up to the Scoutmaster to make the
determination if service to the council scout camp would suffice.  Since
the kids are breaking their backs for 8 or 9 hours, I count them as
service to the organization or camp.

Now, don't confuse service hours for Eagle Projects as the same.  The
Eagle service project can not benefit the Boy Scouts of America, A
business or any for profit organization at all.  So the OA projects can
work for the scouts next rank.  There is nothing anywhere that states
that OA Ordeal projects do not or can not count.

I challenge anyone to find it.

Matt



Karen Mixon wrote:

>
>
> I'm interested also.  While we're on the subject...how about service
> performed at an OA ordeal?  I wasn't able to find anything about
> crediting toward their regular service time.
>  
> Karen
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Matt Price <admyank@...>
> *To:* TMTUG@...
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:22:53 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours
>
> Ray,
>
> Please state in the BSA guidelines where this can be found.  If you
> have an exact guideline that you are referencing, please let us know
> so that we can reference the information.
>
> My wife has never heard of a guideline that states such.
>
> Matt
>
>

[Karen Mixon]

Thanks.  Most of what I've researched comes down to the Scoutmaster's discretion as to whether or not the service hours are acceptable. 

Karen




________________________________
From: Matt Price <admyank@...>
To: TMTUG@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 9:41:25 PM
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours





Karen,

I can successfully answer this - The OA is an organization that supports summer camps, etc.   It would be up to the Scoutmaster to make the determination if service to the council scout camp would suffice.  Since the kids are breaking their backs for 8 or 9 hours, I count them as service to the organization or camp.

Now, don't confuse service hours for Eagle Projects as the same.  The Eagle service project can not benefit the Boy Scouts of America, A business or any for profit organization at all.  So the OA projects can work for the scouts next rank.  There is nothing anywhere that states that OA Ordeal projects do not or can not count.

I challenge anyone to find it.

Matt



Karen Mixon wrote:
I'm interested also.  While we're on the subject...how about service performed at an OA ordeal?  I wasn't able to find anything about crediting toward their regular service time.

Karen




________________________________
From: Matt Price <admyank@gmail. com>
To: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:22:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours


Ray,

Please state in the BSA guidelines where this can be found.  If you have an exact guideline that you are referencing, please let us know so that we can reference the information.

My wife has never heard of a guideline that states such.

Matt

[Karen Mixon]

Thanks, but is this written anywhere?  I searched for hours on this, and couldn't find anything.  Most references came down to the Scoutmaster's discretion.

Karen




________________________________
From: Ray Miessler <ray@...>
To: TMTUG@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 9:39:36 PM
Subject: RE: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours





Service performed as part of their ordeal is for OA ordeal and is not counted as service hours also in this case. 
 
Same as service hours counted towards Cit in the Comm merit badge is not also counted towards say a rank service project requirement also.


________________________________
From: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com [mailto:TMTUG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Karen Mixon
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:23 PM
To: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours


I'm interested also.  While we're on the subject...how about service performed at an OA ordeal?  I wasn't able to find anything about crediting toward their regular service time.

Karen




________________________________
From: Matt Price <admyank@gmail. com>
To: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:22:53 PM
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours


Ray,

Please state in the BSA guidelines where this can be found.  If you have an exact guideline that you are referencing, please let us know so that we can reference the information.

My wife has never heard of a guideline that states such.

Matt

[Matt Price]

According to SR-7B Order of the Arrow, the service hours that are
performed at OA functions can be counted.

Can you please point us in that policies direction?  I don't see where
this is policy.

Matt


Ray Miessler wrote:

>
>
> Service performed as part of their ordeal is for OA ordeal and is not
> counted as service hours also in this case.
>  
> Same as service hours counted towards Cit in the Comm merit badge is
> not also counted towards say a rank service project requirement also.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] *On
> Behalf Of *Karen Mixon
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:23 PM
> *To:* TMTUG@...
> *Subject:* Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours
>
> I'm interested also.  While we're on the subject...how about service
> performed at an OA ordeal?  I wasn't able to find anything about
> crediting toward their regular service time.
>  
> Karen
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Matt Price <admyank@...>
> *To:* TMTUG@...
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 9, 2009 8:22:53 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours
>
> Ray,
>
> Please state in the BSA guidelines where this can be found.  If you
> have an exact guideline that you are referencing, please let us know
> so that we can reference the information.
>
> My wife has never heard of a guideline that states such.
>
> Matt
>
>

[Thomas A Newman]

Hi Ray,

 

Exactly what BSA policy would we check?

 

Yours in Scouting,

Tom Newman

scout043@...

Phone: [phone]

 

If you can't live forever, create something that can.

 

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ray
Miessler
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:44 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

 






I think if you check the BSA policies, you'll find out that you cannot count
and Eagle Service project as a Troop activity.  You should not be checking
the credit to 2nd/1st class on an Eagle service project.

 

  _____  

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
David Wildschuetz
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 3:52 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

Actually, it depends on how you want count each day as a seperate activity
for 2nd Class and 1st Class activity requirements.  If you combine each day
as one activity, the Scout only gets counted as one activity as far as
TroopMaster is concerned.  If the young Tenderfoot shows up for 3 days of a
5 day project, would you not want to count it as three seperate activities
towards Second Class?

 

Just a thought for consideration.

David

 

  _____  

From: M Derleth <mderleth@...>
To: TMTUG@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 2:45:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

Matthew:

It's actually not important to enter the time on each day for 99.5% of the
Scouts. The requirement says X hours while a <rank> Scout.  Only if a Scout
was having a board of review and advancing during the work phase of a
project would hours spent on different days matter.  This would most often
come into play if there was a multi-week or month delay between starting
work and completing the work.

Our troop records <start date of project>  <total hours spent by Scout>.
Works fine. Saves a lot of wear and tear on adults.

Michael Derleth
ASM T14 / Oregon / Eagle Scout

 

  _____  

From: Matthew Baynard <matthew.baynard@ troop44bushkill. org>
To: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 10:42:02 AM
Subject: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours




Question for the group.  When we enter service project hours for the boys
who have worked on Eagle Projects, we're not sure what is best, to enter the
time as a total at the end of the Eagle project or to enter them on the days
that the work is done.  I know its important to enter the time on the day
its done since some ranks need service hours to be completed while in that
rank.  Is there a way to enter this multiple dates for one entry in
activities?  The manual really doesn't talk about this one.

 

Regards,

 

Matthew Baynard
Troop 44 - Bushkill Township
Assistant Scoutmaster & Webmaster
matthew.baynard@ troop44bushkill. org
www.troop44bushkill <http://www.troop44bushkill.org/>  .org

 

 

 

[Ray Miessler]

I'm looking into it.  Possibly could be a troop policy or the interpretation
of the Eagle project being an Individual effort by teh eagle candidate.
Problem is that BSA policies are not readily posted and you actually have to
request a copy of the volumes of them.
That in itself is a whole total other issue.

  _____  

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
Thomas A Newman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:39 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours






Hi Ray,

Exactly what BSA policy would we check?

Yours in Scouting,

Tom Newman

scout043@...

Phone: [phone]

If you can't live forever, create something that can.

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ray
Miessler
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:44 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours






I think if you check the BSA policies, you'll find out that you cannot count
and Eagle Service project as a Troop activity.  You should not be checking
the credit to 2nd/1st class on an Eagle service project.

  _____  

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
David Wildschuetz
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 3:52 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

Actually, it depends on how you want count each day as a seperate activity
for 2nd Class and 1st Class activity requirements.  If you combine each day
as one activity, the Scout only gets counted as one activity as far as
TroopMaster is concerned.  If the young Tenderfoot shows up for 3 days of a
5 day project, would you not want to count it as three seperate activities
towards Second Class?

Just a thought for consideration.

David

  _____  

From: M Derleth <mderleth@...>
To: TMTUG@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 2:45:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

Matthew:

It's actually not important to enter the time on each day for 99.5% of the
Scouts. The requirement says X hours while a <rank> Scout.  Only if a Scout
was having a board of review and advancing during the work phase of a
project would hours spent on different days matter.  This would most often
come into play if there was a multi-week or month delay between starting
work and completing the work.

Our troop records <start date of project>  <total hours spent by Scout>.
Works fine. Saves a lot of wear and tear on adults.

Michael Derleth
ASM T14 / Oregon / Eagle Scout

  _____  

From: Matthew Baynard <matthew.baynard@ troop44bushkill. org>
To: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 10:42:02 AM
Subject: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours




Question for the group.  When we enter service project hours for the boys
who have worked on Eagle Projects, we're not sure what is best, to enter the
time as a total at the end of the Eagle project or to enter them on the days
that the work is done.  I know its important to enter the time on the day
its done since some ranks need service hours to be completed while in that
rank.  Is there a way to enter this multiple dates for one entry in
activities?  The manual really doesn't talk about this one.

Regards,

Matthew Baynard
Troop 44 - Bushkill Township
Assistant Scoutmaster & Webmaster
matthew.baynard@ troop44bushkill. org
www.troop44bushkill .org <http://www.troop44bushkill.org/>

[Thomas A Newman]

If you go to the Good Turn for America web site, you do have to enter
regular service projects and Eagle Projects in different sections, but I
think that is just so National can see how many hours each year are done as
Eagle projects.  When National talks about the number of hours of service
given to the community they add Eagle project hours and regular service
projects together.  The boys should expect their total service hours
preformed to count for their benefit as well.  At the bottom line, the
service project, whether a regular service project or an Eagle project, is
for the benefit of the community in some way or another.   All hours in
either case should count for either service or activities (whichever applies
to that scout).  

 

The only conflict is for second class, the scout needs both 1 hour of
service and troop activities this one hour can be earned as Scout or
Tenderfoot.   (I think that is strange that you do not need any service to
earn 1st Class but you need an hour for second class).  I personally do not
feel that it is right to get double credit for a 1 hour service project, but
I have no problem with a Tenderfoot who works well over an hour at a service
project to give him both his 1 and his activity.  My justification for this
would be once he had his 1 hour in, he could go home.  The fact that he
stayed and worked beyond that time would count as his activity.  Now if the
project was 1 hour and 5 minutes, I might have a problem giving him an
activity for 5 minutes.  Good judgment must prevail.   I always say, that I
have made mistakes in the past and I will make mistakes in the future, but I
pray that every mistake will be in favor of the boy instead of the rules.

 

Yours in Scouting,

Tom Newman

scout043@...

Phone: [phone]

 

If you can't live forever, create something that can.

 

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ray
Miessler
Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 1:56 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

 






I'm looking into it.  Possibly could be a troop policy or the interpretation
of the Eagle project being an Individual effort by teh eagle candidate.

Problem is that BSA policies are not readily posted and you actually have to
request a copy of the volumes of them.

That in itself is a whole total other issue.

 

  _____  

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
Thomas A Newman
Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 11:39 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

Hi Ray,

Exactly what BSA policy would we check?

Yours in Scouting,

Tom Newman

scout043@...

Phone: [phone]

If you can't live forever, create something that can.

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ray
Miessler
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 9:44 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours







I think if you check the BSA policies, you'll find out that you cannot count
and Eagle Service project as a Troop activity.  You should not be checking
the credit to 2nd/1st class on an Eagle service project.

  _____  

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
David Wildschuetz
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 3:52 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

Actually, it depends on how you want count each day as a seperate activity
for 2nd Class and 1st Class activity requirements.  If you combine each day
as one activity, the Scout only gets counted as one activity as far as
TroopMaster is concerned.  If the young Tenderfoot shows up for 3 days of a
5 day project, would you not want to count it as three seperate activities
towards Second Class?

Just a thought for consideration.

David

  _____  

From: M Derleth <mderleth@...>
To: TMTUG@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 2:45:06 PM
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

Matthew:

It's actually not important to enter the time on each day for 99.5% of the
Scouts. The requirement says X hours while a <rank> Scout.  Only if a Scout
was having a board of review and advancing during the work phase of a
project would hours spent on different days matter.  This would most often
come into play if there was a multi-week or month delay between starting
work and completing the work.

Our troop records <start date of project>  <total hours spent by Scout>.
Works fine. Saves a lot of wear and tear on adults.

Michael Derleth
ASM T14 / Oregon / Eagle Scout

  _____  

From: Matthew Baynard <matthew.baynard@ troop44bushkill. org>
To: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Tuesday, June 9, 2009 10:42:02 AM
Subject: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours





Question for the group.  When we enter service project hours for the boys
who have worked on Eagle Projects, we're not sure what is best, to enter the
time as a total at the end of the Eagle project or to enter them on the days
that the work is done.  I know its important to enter the time on the day
its done since some ranks need service hours to be completed while in that
rank.  Is there a way to enter this multiple dates for one entry in
activities?  The manual really doesn't talk about this one.

Regards,

Matthew Baynard
Troop 44 - Bushkill Township
Assistant Scoutmaster & Webmaster
matthew.baynard@ troop44bushkill. org
www.troop44bushkill <http://www.troop44bushkill.org/>  .org

[Matt Price]

Marty,

I agree to a point.  If you are having a troop activity, such as that
the troop is gathering in order to perform a service project or to go on
a trip, or any other event in which a Boy Scout is called to go to the
activity - it should be counted.

If we start saying that packing into a 15 passenger van and going on an
activity in a Scout uniform with the troop flag or if the troop makes
group reservations then it needs to be considered as such.

Matt

Marty Frary wrote:

>
>
> We have always defined a "troop activity" as one where attendance by
> all scouts is expected.  A level of attendance at "troop activities"
> is an expectation of being considered "active in troop" for the
> purposes of advancement.  Eagle projects have never been considered
> "troop activities", because attendance by all scouts is most often not
> practical or necessary.
>
>  
>
> JMF
>
> Troop 575
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:* TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] *On
> Behalf Of *Matt Price
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:21 PM
> *To:* TMTUG@...
> *Subject:* Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours
>
>  
>
> Don,
>
> I do not see where it explicitly states that service projects are not
> troop activity and can not count toward the lower ranks.  Here is what
> I am looking for:
>
> "I think if you check the BSA policies, you'll find out that you
> cannot count and Eagle Service project as a Troop activity.  You
> should not be checking the credit to 2nd/1st class on an Eagle service
> project."
>
> As I am reading it in my book, there is no such regulation or policy.
>
> Matt
>
> Don wrote:
>
>  
>
> Page27 of#33088D -- Advancement Committee, Policies & Procedures
>
> Don
>
>
>
> Ray,
>
> Please state in the BSA guidelines where this can be found.  If you
> have an exact guideline that you are referencing, please let us know
> so that we can reference the information.
>
> My wife has never heard of a guideline that states such.
>
> Matt
>
>

[Thomas A Newman]

Marty,

 

Let me first apologize to you for picking on you, because there are a lot of
Scoutmasters who feel exactly like you.

 

I don't understand your thinking in this manner.  Next Saturday (not
tomorrow) we will be setting up 5 dining files for our church to be used at
the 5th of July services.  In the last 60 days, our unit has done 2 flag
ceremonies (one for the Federal Courts for an naturalization and one for
Wal-mart for a grand re-opening of a store), cooked a lunch to support our
youth group for our church, helped boys from two other troops with their
eagle projects, and had one Eagle Project for one of the boys in our troop.
We also have two other Eagle Projects for boys in our troop which will be
done in the next 60 days.

 

I don't believe that any of these non-Eagle service projects would be
eligible for a service project as they would be deemed "not worthy" .  Why
would you consider the work done by the boys in the troop on Eagle projects,
less worthy of service time than the other service performed?

 

When you enter projects in "Good Turn for America"
http://www.goodturnforamerica.org/  do you not enter Eagle projects because
I will guarantee you that National takes credit for all of the service hours
that your scouts work.  It is ironic to me that National gets to count your
boys hours of service on Eagle projects but the boy don't.  (Actually it
occurs to me that they probably separate the regular projects from the eagle
projects on the web site so that they do not double count the Eagle project
hours.  Probably only about 50% of the Eagle projects get entered on the web
site, but probably 99.99% of the eagle project hours get turned in on the
Eagle application.  It would make sense for National to take the hours from
the Eagle applications and add the hours from the troop projects as this is
the only way they can get the regular hours.)

 

The service requirements are as follows:

Second Class:  For the Second Class Rank, a Scout must participate in a
service project or projects approved by his Scoutmaster. The time of service
must be a minimum of one hour. This project prepares a Scout for the more
involved service projects he must perform for the Star, Life, and Eagle
Scout Ranks.

 

Star & Life: For Star and Life ranks, a Scout must perform six hours of
service to others. This may be done as an individual project or as a member
of a patrol or troop project. Star and Life service projects may be approved
for Scouts assisting on Eagle service projects.  (I added the emphasis,
notice that it does say "MAY" but you better be able to defend your decision
to not approve a scout for Eagle service projects.) The Scoutmaster approves
the project before it is started.

 

- Advancement Policies
<http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Advancement_Policies>  #33088, page 27

 

Both of these require that the Scoutmaster approve the project in advance.
When your Scout is in the process of getting approval to begin an Eagle
project, one of the signatures that he MUST secure is the Scoutmaster
signature.  That signature is stating that you deem this project worthy of
being of sufficient scope for the Eagle candidate, Can the same Scoutmaster
now say that the same project is not worthy of service time for the boys
working on it.

 

Finally, there have been times when I have counted service from church
groups or school groups.  This is legitimate under the rules because it does
not say that they have to be Boy Scout related but simply "Service to
Others".  I must say that I only count service for other groups when the
troop has not provided sufficient service hours to get their advancement,
but with the amount of service that we do, this is not usually a problem.
To not count those hours is, in my humble opinion, a violation of the "No
More - No Less" policy.

 

 

 

Yours in Scouting,

Tom Newman

scout043@...

Phone: [phone]

 

If you can't live forever, create something that can.

 

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Matt
Price
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:22 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

 

Marty,

I agree to a point.  If you are having a troop activity, such as that the
troop is gathering in order to perform a service project or to go on a trip,
or any other event in which a Boy Scout is called to go to the activity - it
should be counted.

If we start saying that packing into a 15 passenger van and going on an
activity in a Scout uniform with the troop flag or if the troop makes group
reservations then it needs to be considered as such.

Matt

Marty Frary wrote:

We have always defined a "troop activity" as one where attendance by all
scouts is expected.  A level of attendance at "troop activities" is an
expectation of being considered "active in troop" for the purposes of
advancement.  Eagle projects have never been considered "troop activities",
because attendance by all scouts is most often not practical or necessary.

 

JMF

Troop 575

 

  _____  

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Matt
Price
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 10:21 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: Re: [TMTUG] Service Project Hours

 

Don,

I do not see where it explicitly states that service projects are not troop
activity and can not count toward the lower ranks.  Here is what I am
looking for:

"I think if you check the BSA policies, you'll find out that you cannot
count and Eagle Service project as a Troop activity.  You should not be
checking the credit to 2nd/1st class on an Eagle service project."

As I am reading it in my book, there is no such regulation or policy.

Matt

Don wrote:

 



Page27 of#33088D - Advancement Committee, Policies & Procedures

Don






Ray,

Please state in the BSA guidelines where this can be found.  If you have an
exact guideline that you are referencing, please let us know so that we can
reference the information.

My wife has never heard of a guideline that states such.

Matt