Shale Status

[samju]

while i am not on the Dev List, i will replay here.
I would like to mention that McGraw-Hill Education will release a Book written by Holmes, James under the name "Shale" Complete Reference?. they speak about The ultimate Struts 2 resourceHere is the first definitive text on Java' s newest and most modern Web application framework--Struts 2.0.
do they realy mean SHALE?

Greg talk about
* motivation. What do You think about new subproject Shale-RCP?
RCP is incomming!
* Seam similar architecture. Which  Shale concepts did Seam implemented?
Was Shale only created to elaborate JCreator?

Sam

Bernhard I am ready to work , if you are looking for co-authors.


Sam Julian

[linux.eavilesa]

Hi all,

I've been tracking user and development mailing lists during some time,
and I think that people is getting (including me) a little bit nervous
about Shale project.
I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well
defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use
Shale in front of other frameworks.

First of all decide if Shale has a future (that I think that it does)
and redefine or reinforce the project goal.

So in my opinion we should focus on defining or determining three key
concepts:
· Define the project team organization,  mainly the project leader  and  
the development team.
· Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it)
· Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is
worth keeping alive

You will say....

Thanks for your time.

Esteve

[Ryan de Laplante]

Hi,

I'm not a Shale user or regular reader of this mailing list, although I
gave it a look about a year ago.  JSF 2.0 is going to be standardizing
the best ideas from Shale's Clay, View Controller, Tiger extensions, and
other features.  JSF 2.0 is doing the same with facelets, jsftemplating,
Seam, AJAX4JSF, etc.   Once JSF 2.0 is out, will there be a need for
bolt on frameworks like Shale, Seam, JSF Templating, Facelets, AJAX4JSF,
etc?

If I had the skills necessary to maintain a sophisticated framework like
Shale I would join the JCP and help standardize the best features.


Thanks,
Ryan


linux.eavilesa wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've been tracking user and development mailing lists during some
> time, and I think that people is getting (including me) a little bit
> nervous about Shale project.
> I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well
> defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use
> Shale in front of other frameworks.
>
> First of all decide if Shale has a future (that I think that it does)
> and redefine or reinforce the project goal.
>
> So in my opinion we should focus on defining or determining three key
> concepts:
> · Define the project team organization,  mainly the project leader  
> and  the development team.
> · Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it)
> · Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is
> worth keeping alive
>
> You will say....
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Esteve
>
>

[Greg Reddin-4]

On Feb 6, 2008 1:21 PM, linux.eavilesa <linux.eavilesa@...> wrote:
>
> I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well
> defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use
> Shale in front of other frameworks.

Well, we do sort of have a roadmap (or at least a tool for creating one):

    https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project:roadmap-panel

As you can see we're pretty close to a release. All that remains is
some people to complete the few remaining 1.0.5 tickets and do the
release work.

> · Define the project team organization,  mainly the project leader  and
> the development team.

The Shale PMC is responsible for these kinds of decisions. Apache
projects don't have a single "leader". Rather, they are led by the
people who do the work - namely the PMC. The best way to get involved
is continued participation in the mailing lists (a similar discussion
is happening on the dev list so you should sign up for that as well)
and adding some patches to the Jira tickets.

> · Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it)

I think 1.0.5 could easily become a stable (GA) version if we can get
it out the door. Since the work is done by volunteers we don't have
dates for the releases. It will happen when someone is motivated
enough and has time to do it.

> · Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is
> worth keeping alive

Search the archives for info on this. Some discussion along that line
has already taken place. For example, we have decided to discontinue
support for Shale-Tiles in favor of the MyFaces Tomahawk Tiles 2 view
handler.  Other things were discussed as well but no firm decisions
were made.

There seems to be a lot of interest in seeing Shale move forward. I
hope some of that interest will generate new activity.
Greg

[linux.eavilesa]

Hi,

I move this conversation to the dev list.

Esteve

Greg Reddin wrote:

> On Feb 6, 2008 1:21 PM, linux.eavilesa <linux.eavilesa@...> wrote:
>  
>> I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well
>> defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use
>> Shale in front of other frameworks.
>>    
>
> Well, we do sort of have a roadmap (or at least a tool for creating one):
>
>     https://issues.apache.org/struts/browse/SHALE?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project:roadmap-panel
>
> As you can see we're pretty close to a release. All that remains is
> some people to complete the few remaining 1.0.5 tickets and do the
> release work.
>
>  
>> · Define the project team organization,  mainly the project leader  and
>> the development team.
>>    
>
> The Shale PMC is responsible for these kinds of decisions. Apache
> projects don't have a single "leader". Rather, they are led by the
> people who do the work - namely the PMC. The best way to get involved
> is continued participation in the mailing lists (a similar discussion
> is happening on the dev list so you should sign up for that as well)
> and adding some patches to the Jira tickets.
>
>  
>> · Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it)
>>    
>
> I think 1.0.5 could easily become a stable (GA) version if we can get
> it out the door. Since the work is done by volunteers we don't have
> dates for the releases. It will happen when someone is motivated
> enough and has time to do it.
>
>  
>> · Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is
>> worth keeping alive
>>    
>
> Search the archives for info on this. Some discussion along that line
> has already taken place. For example, we have decided to discontinue
> support for Shale-Tiles in favor of the MyFaces Tomahawk Tiles 2 view
> handler.  Other things were discussed as well but no firm decisions
> were made.
>
> There seems to be a lot of interest in seeing Shale move forward. I
> hope some of that interest will generate new activity.
> Greg
>
>  

[Niall Pemberton-2]

On Feb 6, 2008 7:21 PM, linux.eavilesa <linux.eavilesa@...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been tracking user and development mailing lists during some time,
> and I think that people is getting (including me) a little bit nervous
> about Shale project.

and rightly so - the trends are stark:

Overall: http://shale.markmail.org/search/?q=
Dev: http://tinyurl.com/2d3e92
Commits: http://tinyurl.com/2synvm

Unless those trends start to reverse, the only glimmer of hope on the
horizon is/was the proposal to move the code to MyFaces.

Niall

> I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well
> defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use
> Shale in front of other frameworks.
>
> First of all decide if Shale has a future (that I think that it does)
> and redefine or reinforce the project goal.
>
> So in my opinion we should focus on defining or determining three key
> concepts:
> · Define the project team organization,  mainly the project leader  and
> the development team.
> · Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it)
> · Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is
> worth keeping alive
>
> You will say....
>
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Esteve
>
>

[Gary%20VanMatre]

>From: "Niall Pemberton" <niall.pemberton@...>
>
> On Feb 6, 2008 7:21 PM, linux.eavilesa wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been tracking user and development mailing lists during some time,
> > and I think that people is getting (including me) a little bit nervous
> > about Shale project.
>
> and rightly so - the trends are stark:
>
> Overall: http://shale.markmail.org/search/?q= 
> Dev: http://tinyurl.com/2d3e92 
> Commits: http://tinyurl.com/2synvm 
>
> Unless those trends start to reverse, the only glimmer of hope on the
> horizon is/was the proposal to move the code to MyFaces.
>

Niall, I know you are a *very* active struts and commons committer and apache supporter so I will take this to heart.  

 
> Niall
>


Gary

> > I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well
> > defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to use
> > Shale in front of other frameworks.
> >
> > First of all decide if Shale has a future (that I think that it does)
> > and redefine or reinforce the project goal.
> >
> > So in my opinion we should focus on defining or determining three key
> > concepts:
> > · Define the project team organization, mainly the project leader and
> > the development team.
> > · Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead it)
> > · Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is
> > worth keeping alive
> >
> > You will say....
> >
> > Thanks for your time.
> >
> > Esteve
> >
> >

[Greg Reddin-4]

On Feb 7, 2008 10:42 AM, Gary VanMatre <gvanmatre@...> wrote:

> >From: "Niall Pemberton" <niall.pemberton@...>
> >
> > and rightly so - the trends are stark:
> >
> > Overall: http://shale.markmail.org/search/?q=
> > Dev: http://tinyurl.com/2d3e92
> > Commits: http://tinyurl.com/2synvm
> >
> > Unless those trends start to reverse, the only glimmer of hope on the
> > horizon is/was the proposal to move the code to MyFaces.
> >
>
>
> Niall, I know you are a *very* active struts and commons committer and apache supporter so I will take this to heart.

Yep, same here. My first reaction was to be defensive and say
something like "maybe there's not much work to do" but I will
backtrack on that and try to think hard about what I can actually
contribute - and start actually doing it :-)

Greg

[kito99]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan de Laplante [mailto:ryan@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2008 2:39 PM
> To: user@...
> Subject: Re: Shale Roadmap
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm not a Shale user or regular reader of this mailing list, although I
> gave it a look about a year ago.  JSF 2.0 is going to be standardizing
> the best ideas from Shale's Clay, View Controller, Tiger extensions,
> and
> other features.  JSF 2.0 is doing the same with facelets,
> jsftemplating,
> Seam, AJAX4JSF, etc.   Once JSF 2.0 is out, will there be a need for
> bolt on frameworks like Shale, Seam, JSF Templating, Facelets,
> AJAX4JSF,
> etc?
>
> If I had the skills necessary to maintain a sophisticated framework
> like
> Shale I would join the JCP and help standardize the best features.

Quite a few of the Shale committers are on the JSF 2.0 EG (as am I). It's
true that a lot of these features will end up in JSF 2, but that's still a
ways out (at least the end of this year, probably next year). However,
there's always room to add more functionality. Also, all of the frameworks
you mention serve different purposes. Seam and Shale have some overlap [1],
but Seam adds a lot of stuff, and only some of it is being standardized (via
JSF 2 and WebBeans). JSF 2 will support different types of templating, so
there's no guarantee that alternative view technologies will go away; there
will simply be a much better default.


[1] Interview with Craig McClanahan,
http://www.jsfcentral.com/articles/mcclanahan-05-05.html

>
> linux.eavilesa wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been tracking user and development mailing lists during some
> > time, and I think that people is getting (including me) a little bit
> > nervous about Shale project.
> > I think that the main reason why is the fact that there is not a well
> > defined road map now for the project and many of as have bitten to
> use
> > Shale in front of other frameworks.
> >
> > First of all decide if Shale has a future (that I think that it does)
> > and redefine or reinforce the project goal.
> >
> > So in my opinion we should focus on defining or determining three key
> > concepts:
> > . Define the project team organization,  mainly the project leader
> > and  the development team.
> > . Determine the release of the stable version (date and who will lead
> it)
> > . Analyze each module and decide which must eliminated and which is
> > worth keeping alive
> >
> > You will say....
> >
> > Thanks for your time.
> >
> > Esteve
> >
> >