Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
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Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Pavan Chander
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I noticed that TT has a link to Vew Edits and I filed a ticket to hide it, as all it did was point the clicker to a login prompt. On the current server one needs to be logged in to view the edit/vote system and I thought that this should remain the same in TT. A very short discussion was held on IRC about this and the decision was sort of made to let the general public have access to see the edit history, so the ticket was changed and now if you click on View Edits, you can see them without being logged in. Only a handful of opinions have been heard on this and aCiD2 suggested I bring this up on the ML to discuss it further. Pavan Chander // navap _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Mark Woodson
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On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 5:42 PM, Pavan Chander <pchander@...> wrote:
> I noticed that TT has a link to Vew Edits and I filed a ticket to hide it, > as all it did was point the clicker to a login prompt. > > On the current server one needs to be logged in to view the edit/vote system > and I thought that this should remain the same in TT. > http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/4669 > > A very short discussion was held on IRC about this and the decision was sort > of made to let the general public have access to see the edit history, so > the ticket was changed and now if you click on View Edits, you can see them > without being logged in. > http://chatlogs.musicbrainz.org/2009/2009-02/2009-02-03.html#T20-30-09-603796 > > Only a handful of opinions have been heard on this and aCiD2 suggested I > bring this up on the ML to discuss it further. I think having the edit system viewable by the larger public would be a good thing. The idea that the mechanics are transparent would perhaps encourage people to participate. I can't think of a real down side to having it open to inspection. -Mark / InSinU8 _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Kuno Woudt-2
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On Sun, Feb 08, 2009 at 08:42:34PM -0500, Pavan Chander wrote:
> On the current server one needs to be logged in to view the edit/vote system > and I thought that this should remain the same in TT. > http://bugs.musicbrainz.org/ticket/4669 This surprised me the few times I clicked on an edit link and wasn't logged in. I am in favour of giving not-logged-in users read-only access to all of the edit system. -- kuno / warp. _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Atedos-2
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...and yeah, what's the point in anonymous subscribing to artist, if he can't review the edits? =\\
2009/2/9 Kuno Woudt <kuno@...>
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Jan van Thiel
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2009/2/9 Atedos <atedos@...>:
> ...and yeah, what's the point in anonymous subscribing to artist, if he > can't review the edits? =\\ An anonymous subscriber means a registered user that does not want others to know he is subscribed to that artist. Jan _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Martin Lesser-6
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Jan van Thiel <janvanthiel@...> writes:
> 2009/2/9 Atedos <atedos@...>: >> ...and yeah, what's the point in anonymous subscribing to artist, if he >> can't review the edits? =\\ > An anonymous subscriber means a registered user that does not want > others to know he is subscribed to that artist. I understand the subject (and the previous mails) different: Is http://musicbrainz.org/mod/search/pre/[album|artist|...].html?[albumid|artistid|...]=NNNN available for the public in general (it's not at the moment). IMO this question is comparable to wikipedia where you can review edits/history without being registered user. Regards, Martin _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Kuno Woudt-2
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On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 10:41:01PM +0100, Martin Lesser wrote:
> IMO this question is comparable to wikipedia where you can review > edits/history without being registered user. On wikipedia you can also edit without being a registered user. naturally, you can thus view other edits too. It's not quite the same situation as musicbrainz. -- kuno / warp. _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Martin Lesser-6
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Kuno Woudt <kuno@...> writes:
>> IMO this question is comparable to wikipedia where you can review >> edits/history without being registered user. > On wikipedia you can also edit without being a registered user. > naturally, you can thus view other edits too. It's not quite the > same situation as musicbrainz. But the question discussed here is whether the public (and not only anonymous MB-subscribers) should be able to *view* edits done by registered MB-users? Please correct if I'm wrong. _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Pavan Chander
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An "anonymous subscriber" is in fact a registered user, one who can log in and make edits. For reasons known to them they have decided not to disclose who they subscribe to. This is very different from the "general public" access I'm talking about. I'm asking whether someone who doesn't have an account should be able to view the edit system, and have access to the edit history. Pavan Chander // navap On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Martin Lesser <ml-musicbrainz@...> wrote:
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Aaron Cooper-3
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I can't see unregistered users being very interested in the voting
process. That said, I'm not against opening it up but I think there are better things to be spending our development time on. -cooperaa On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Pavan Chander <pchander@...> wrote: > An "anonymous subscriber" is in fact a registered user, one who can log in > and make edits. For reasons known to them they have decided not to disclose > who they subscribe to. > > This is very different from the "general public" access I'm talking about. > > I'm asking whether someone who doesn't have an account should be able to > view the edit system, and have access to the edit history. _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Aurélien Mino
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Pavan Chander wrote:
> > An "anonymous subscriber" is in fact a registered user, one who can > log in and make edits. For reasons known to them they have decided not > to disclose who they subscribe to. > > This is very different from the "general public" access I'm talking > about. > > I'm asking whether someone who doesn't have an account should be able > to view the edit system, and have access to the edit history. > And that could be regarded as partially private data. That's one of the reasons I'd rather not have edit history viewable via the read-only interface (that is when you're not logged in). The 2nd reason is that I prefer having a clean read-only interface, with no concept of edits, rather than a mixed interface with some edits related links here and there. - Aurélien / murdos _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Martin Lesser-6
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Aaron Cooper <cooperaa@...> writes:
> On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 5:13 PM, Pavan Chander <pchander@...> wrote: >> I'm asking whether someone who doesn't have an account should be able to >> view the edit system, and have access to the edit history. > I can't see unregistered users being very interested in the voting > process. That said, I'm not against opening it up but I think there > are better things to be spending our development time on. I think the main goal is not to reveal the votings - that's probably not very interesting. But many edits have notes which may contain informations interesting for the public. And, hey: transparency (for everyone) is something which could make MB more attractive and this is no matter whether it is really used by "the masses" at the end. _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Jan van Thiel
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2009/2/9 Aurélien Mino <a.mino@...>:
> Pavan Chander wrote: >> I'm asking whether someone who doesn't have an account should be able >> to view the edit system, and have access to the edit history. >> > Edit history which includes all edit notes and votes. > And that could be regarded as partially private data. > That's one of the reasons I'd rather not have edit history viewable via > the read-only interface (that is when you're not logged in). Yes, I e.g. post links to cover scans on my own site; I do not want it available for others. Also, if people want to see the edit history, just create a free account. > The 2nd reason is that I prefer having a clean read-only interface, with > no concept of edits, rather than a mixed interface with some edits > related links here and there. Agreed. Jan / zout _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Kuno Woudt-2
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On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:28:40PM +0100, Jan van Thiel wrote:
> 2009/2/9 Aurélien Mino <a.mino@...>: > > Edit history which includes all edit notes and votes. > > And that could be regarded as partially private data. > > That's one of the reasons I'd rather not have edit history viewable via > > the read-only interface (that is when you're not logged in). > > Yes, I e.g. post links to cover scans on my own site; I do not want it > available for others. Also, if people want to see the edit history, > just create a free account. I can understand this concern, and to some extent agree with it. I had not considered this in my first response on this thread. I am curious though, are you concerned that you are violating copyright and do not want that public, or is it a bandwidth issue? (or both?) -- kuno / warp. _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Jan van Thiel
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2009/2/10 Kuno Woudt <kuno@...>:
> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 06:28:40PM +0100, Jan van Thiel wrote: >> 2009/2/9 Aurélien Mino <a.mino@...>: >> > Edit history which includes all edit notes and votes. >> > And that could be regarded as partially private data. >> > That's one of the reasons I'd rather not have edit history viewable via >> > the read-only interface (that is when you're not logged in). >> >> Yes, I e.g. post links to cover scans on my own site; I do not want it >> available for others. Also, if people want to see the edit history, >> just create a free account. > > I can understand this concern, and to some extent agree with it. I had not > considered this in my first response on this thread. > > I am curious though, are you concerned that you are violating copyright > and do not want that public, or is it a bandwidth issue? (or both?) The first reason ;) Jan _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Brian Schweitzer
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To be honest, I doubt anyone who was looking to catch you linking to cover scans would be doing it through the web interface. Every edit note is also available in a much more easily searched format, through the data dump. So to me, this sounds a lot like "security through obscurity" - given that anyone who wanted could both snag a free account or search the data dumps, then how are you made any more secure than if we simply allow anyone to view edit histories, without requiring a login?
Brian On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 5:54 AM, Jan van Thiel <janvanthiel@...> wrote: 2009/2/10 Kuno Woudt <kuno@...>: _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Oliver Charles-2
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2009/3/30 Brian Schweitzer <brian.brianschweitzer@...>:
> To be honest, I doubt anyone who was looking to catch you linking to cover > scans would be doing it through the web interface. Every edit note is also > available in a much more easily searched format, through the data dump. So > to me, this sounds a lot like "security through obscurity" - given that > anyone who wanted could both snag a free account or search the data dumps, > then how are you made any more secure than if we simply allow anyone to view > edit histories, without requiring a login? If it is open, then it is indexed by Google, and otherwise cachable by other sites. This is potentially one problematic area. Same problem if people post accidentally sensitive information in edit notes (granted they shouldn't anyway... but this *is* the internet). That's the only problem I see. -- Oliver Charles / aCiD2 _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Jan van Thiel
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2009/3/30 Brian Schweitzer <brian.brianschweitzer@...>:
> To be honest, I doubt anyone who was looking to catch you linking to cover > scans would be doing it through the web interface. Every edit note is also > available in a much more easily searched format, through the data dump. So > to me, this sounds a lot like "security through obscurity" - given that > anyone who wanted could both snag a free account or search the data dumps, > then how are you made any more secure than if we simply allow anyone to view > edit histories, without requiring a login? 'security through obscurity' still is a (bad) form of security ;) Besides this, I also agree with murdos' arguments. Jan _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Philip Jägenstedt-3
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I support making the edit notes viewable. As for Google, it won't
index it because of robots.txt, but it would be great if it did since there's no way of searching in old edit notes (that I know of). Philip On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Jan van Thiel <janvanthiel@...> wrote: > 2009/3/30 Brian Schweitzer <brian.brianschweitzer@...>: >> To be honest, I doubt anyone who was looking to catch you linking to cover >> scans would be doing it through the web interface. Every edit note is also >> available in a much more easily searched format, through the data dump. So >> to me, this sounds a lot like "security through obscurity" - given that >> anyone who wanted could both snag a free account or search the data dumps, >> then how are you made any more secure than if we simply allow anyone to view >> edit histories, without requiring a login? > > 'security through obscurity' still is a (bad) form of security ;) > Besides this, I also agree with murdos' arguments. > > Jan > > _______________________________________________ > MusicBrainz-users mailing list > MusicBrainz-users@... > http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users > _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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Re: Should the edit system be viewable to the general public?
by Brian Schweitzer
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As said by Phillip and Paul, this is easily addressed by adding a single line in robots.txt, if indeed there isn't already just such a line. And Jan, re:
> 'security through obscurity' still is a (bad) form of security ;) ... exactly my thoughts. :) Brian On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Oliver Charles <oliver.g.charles@...> wrote: 2009/3/30 Brian Schweitzer <brian.brianschweitzer@...>: _______________________________________________ MusicBrainz-users mailing list MusicBrainz-users@... http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users |
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