Simple login form with cookies

[Jason-283]

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bob McConnell [mailto:rvm@...]
>Sent: 09 July 2009 15:38
>To: php-general@...
>Subject: RE: [PHP] Obeying the rules (was Simple login form with cookies)
>
[snip]

>
>Bob McConnell
>
>A: Maybe because some people are too annoyed by top-posting.
>Q: Why do I not get an answer to my question(s)?
>A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
>Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
>A: Top-posting.
>Q: What is the most annoying thing on Usenet?
>

I've been reading this agog - really, how old are we here? But I have to say
that Bob's signature was absolutely spot on. It even caught me out until I
realised its purpose. Case in point.

I have to wonder how this conversation will look in the various archives
when a future PHP coder goes looking for a nice, friendly place to seek
knowledge and guidance.

PS: I also have to wonder how the attitude of "I don't like that rule, so I
didn't follow it" (not an exact quote) will go over when presented to a
police officer?

J


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[Tony Marston]

"Eddie Drapkin" <oorza2k5@...> wrote in message
news:68de37340907090705y5b095f8cy68ba0d416b0459dd@......

>> I called him "intolerant" because he jumps on issues which other people
>> just
>> don't care about.
>>
>> I called him "small minded" because he concentrates on small issues which
>> simply don't matter in the great scheme of things. That sounds like fair
>> comment to me It's just like those people who have endless arguments
>> about
>> when to use uppercase and when to use lower case. It simply doesn't
>> matter,
>> so stop wasting your time in arguing about it.
>
> And it's not just as small minded (I'm not agreeing with you, by the
> way) to assume that your point is the only valid point in the
> discussion?

I never said that my point is the *only* valid point, just that it is a
valid point. I don't complain about other people and their bottom posting
(which I consider to be a bit anal, if you get the pun!) so stop trying to
force me to conform to your petty rules.

>  Nor is it just as small minded to systematically attack
> someone, and the community they take part in, because they have the
> audacity to disagree with you?

I am not attacking, I am defending. There is a slight difference.

>> Irrelevant. It does not matter how much good work anybody does if they go
>> and ruin it by trying to enforce some inconsequential petty rule.
>
> It's obviously not inconsequential, as you're making such a fuss about
> it.  If it's so inconsequential, why not bottom post and be done with
> it?

If it's so inconsequential then stop complaining about it.

>> The conventions in other newsgroups are different, and I can't be
>> bothered
>> to change my habits for different newsgroups just becase some internet
>> Nazi
>> says so.
>>
>
> Congratulations, rule-abiding denizens of php-general, we're now all
> Nazis!

I'm not saying that every person who reads this newsgroup is a Nazi, only
those who take great delight in dictating how people should use *their*
newsgroup.

> Way to invoke Godwin, by the way, it clearly always wins these
> internet argu-debates and doesn't make you look like a loon at all.
> I'm going to take this opportunity to jump on the "no more respect"
> bandwagon.
>
>> So not only are you dictating how I post, you are also dictating which
>> newsreader I should use? How arrogant!
>
> "I don't like your rules, rules that existed before I got here and
> will exist after I leave and are agreed on by the community, so I'll
> not follow them!" is one of the most arrogant things I've ever seen on
> this list.  He was making a suggestion, ffs, and you just want to be
> an ass and take everything personally.  You're making an entire
> mountain range out of the proverbial molehill.

It is *you* who are making a mountain out of the no-top-posting molehill.

--
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http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org 



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[Tony Marston]

"Bastien Koert" <phpster@...> wrote in message
news:d7b6cab70907090705i1575fe0ft21a2cc82c992b035@......

> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Tony
> Marston<tony@...> wrote:
>>
>> "Bastien Koert" <phpster@...> wrote in message
>> news:d7b6cab70907090623s6b37641dt90a564f1d80fe413@......
>> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Tony
>> Marston<tony@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> "Stuart" <stuttle@...> wrote in message
>>> news:a5f019de0907090340k47216f7fh4d83434ef98ce888@......
>>>> 2009/7/9 Tony Marston <tony@...>:
>>>> <snip>
>>>> The first newsgroups I visited after getting my first PC not only
>>>> allowed
>>>> top posting, they actively encouraged it, yet no-one complained if
>>>> someone
>>>> put their post on the bottom. They were tolerant, you see, because it
>>>> didn't really matter.
>>>>
>>>> Your intolerant attitude on this issue shows just what a small-minded
>>>> person
>>>> you are.
>>>>
>>>>> I reckon it's the same with
>>>>> the way you arrange your messages to this list. Top-posting is a lazy
>>>>> and selfish way to "contribute" to the list,
>>>>
>>>> That is opinion, not fact. Other newsgroups allow top posting, so why
>>>> not
>>>> this newsgroup? Just because someone says so? That's simply not good
>>>> enough.
>>>>
>>> Tony,
>>>
>>> The only thing I don't agree with here is the name calling.
>>
>> I called him "intolerant" because he jumps on issues which other people
>> just
>> don't care about.
>>
>> I called him "small minded" because he concentrates on small issues which
>> simply don't matter in the great scheme of things. That sounds like fair
>> comment to me It's just like those people who have endless arguments
>> about
>> when to use uppercase and when to use lower case. It simply doesn't
>> matter,
>> so stop wasting your time in arguing about it.
>>
>>> Daniel is
>>> a pretty darn bright guy here, and I feel that slighting him because
>>> of an established convention is not the best approach to dealing with
>>> this. We are all voluntary participants on this list and we all make
>>> valuable contributions to the PHP community.
>>
>> Irrelevant. It does not matter how much good work anybody does if they go
>> and ruin it by trying to enforce some inconsequential petty rule.
>>
>>> Conventions were implemented to make things easier for participants to
>>> view a standard thread in the list.
>>
>> The conventions in other newsgroups are different, and I can't be
>> bothered
>> to change my habits for different newsgroups just becase some internet
>> Nazi
>> says so.
>>
>>> We don't have to like it, but that
>>> is no reason to digress into a pissing match over how the rules are
>>> not sensible to any specific point of view.
>>
>> No, I don't like stupid rules, which is why I choose not to obey them.
>>
>>> I have found that moving
>>> to the gmail client makes the rules more sensible as that is how gmail
>>> displays the emails. Both hotmail and outlook make this tougher as
>>> they don't logically display the thread. Might I suggest that you try
>>> using gmail (some one posted that your client was outlook which is why
>>> I suggest this)? Its a pain, if you have a history with the list that
>>> you store on your machine, but it might be worthwhile exploring.
>>
>> So not only are you dictating how I post, you are also dictating which
>> newsreader I should use? How arrogant!
>>
>
> No, Tony, not dictating at all. Merely sharing my experience. It may
> or may not work for you, but that is for you to decide.

I've decided. It doesn't work for me. End of story.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org 



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[tedd-2]

At 9:39 AM +0100 7/9/09, Tony Marston wrote:

-snip- (Nothing important)

While you don't have any regard for "rules", we do. We simply ask
that the rules be followed for reasons that are not without
foundation and rules that are customary for list such as this.

Your juvenile statement of:

"No, I don't like stupid rules, which is why I choose not to obey them."

Convinces me that you are either a child or a troll. It certainly
does not support your claim that you are a 30 year professional.

In any case, you are a waste of time -- welcome to my kill file.

tedd

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[Mike Potter-2]

Tony Marston wrote:

> I called [Daniel] "intolerant" because he jumps on issues which other
> people just don't care about.

By "other people" you can only mean yourself, since the number of
people disagreeing with you here on this list keeps increasing.

> I called him "small minded" because he concentrates on small issues which
> simply don't matter in the great scheme of things.

You've been told four times at least, top posting interferes with
threading for this list and it's been brought up a couple of times
at least, top-posting encourages leaving all the trailing dross. Like
dingleberries that you are too lazy or ignorant to clean away.

You also said to Stuart, but may as well have meant for all who've
posted in favor bottom-posting on this list:

> Your intolerant attitude on this issue shows just what a small-minded
> person you are.

With multiple valid reasons and increasing numbers supporting the
status quo for this list, you've thus-far persisted in calling it
an arbitrary rule that need not be followed. That seems pretty
small-minded indeed, for the 30-year professional you claim to be.

SL


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[Jay Blanchard-3]

[snip]
I've decided. It doesn't work for me. End of story.
[/snip]

This has become way off topic (call me a Nazi if you will :)) and has
not, until now, been appropriately marked in the subject line.

Mr. Marston has posted here for a long time and has always had a burr up
his butt about rules. Several folks over the years have been given grief
about top-posting, snipping, off-topic posts, ad infinitum.

Tony, if it doesn't work for you that is fine, your responses may end up
in /dev/null/ of several of those here reducing your odds for getting
worthwhile responses. There is an accepted method for usenet style lists
that have been in place (and POSTED in numerous locations for all to
see) since the dawn of said lists. It is precisely why web forums bottom
post for you, we all read from top to bottom more easily. Additionally
there is a well respected and humorous web site dedicated to asking
smart questions that most everyone here has read or been directed to at
one time or another. If those rules are inconsequential to you I think
you will find your responses to be more and more inconsequential to
others.


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[Jay Blanchard-3]

[snip]
No, I don't like stupid rules, which is why I choose not to obey them.
[/snip]

Shall I point out the irony here?

http://www.tonymarston.net/aboutme/experiences.html in which you post a
truckload of rules.

And this which is posted among your Thoughts & Words

Nobody trips over mountains.
It is the small pebble that causes you to stumble.
Pass all the pebbles in your path
and you will find that you have crossed the mountain.

-- Traditional proverb

As well as

Rules are written for those who lack the ability to truly reason,
But for those who can, rules become nothing more than guidelines,
And live their lives governed not by rules but by reason.

-- James McGuigan



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[Tony Marston]

"Daniel Brown" <danbrown@...> wrote in message
news:ab5568160907090729j4c2cc67esff2823dcb493d3e6@......

> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 09:54, Tony Marston<tony@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> I called him "intolerant" because he jumps on issues which other people
>> just
>> don't care about.
>
>    Point #1: You're obviously wrong, as this thread has already
> received more replies than most on-topic, PHP-centric threads.
>
>> I called him "small minded" because he concentrates on small issues which
>> simply don't matter in the great scheme of things. That sounds like fair
>> comment to me It's just like those people who have endless arguments
>> about
>> when to use uppercase and when to use lower case. It simply doesn't
>> matter,
>> so stop wasting your time in arguing about it.
>
>     Point #2: When attempting to prove your case, do your best to
> keep your facts and players straight --- you did not call me either of
> these things; you placed your unnecessary opinion of such on Stuart.
> And while that really doesn't sit well with me, it's just becoming
> more and more evident that you, like many others in the past, will
> simply wind up being ignored by the majority of the list, save for
> folks who don't know or don't care about your lack of respect for
> them.

I have no respect for anyone who wastes time in trying to force others to
obey their petty rules.

>> Irrelevant. It does not matter how much good work anybody does if they go
>> and ruin it by trying to enforce some inconsequential petty rule.
>
>    Had I been a hippie as well, I might just be inclined to agree
> with you.  So if we're throwing opinions around, let mine ring loud
> and clear: thank God I'm not.  Besides, I couldn't have pulled off the
> bellbottom look, and in all my years, I still can't grow a half-decent
> beard (which means that joining al-Qaeda may be out of my future as
> well.... darn).
>
>> The conventions in other newsgroups are different, and I can't be
>> bothered
>> to change my habits for different newsgroups just becase some internet
>> Nazi
>> says so.
>
>    You change the topic for each newsgroup, don't you?  And you do it
> out of respect for the context of that particular group.  You wouldn't
> (well, maybe *you* would) ask a question about a carburetor on a
> mailing list for expectant mothers, which makes sense.

Now you're being silly.

>  Following a simple rule by not top-posting makes sense as well,
> which has been outlined already.

The whole point about this particlar rule is that it has no purpose other
than to force everybody to conform to somebody's idea of perfection. Who
gave this person the right to make such rules?. Top posting has existed for
ages, and a lot of people don't care about it one way or the other.

> Your greatest failure in this argument, Tony, is
> not being able to articulate your proof as to *why* it's a stupid
> rule.

It's stupid because there is no valid reason as to why top posting is *bad*.
It has existed on the internet ever since there was an internet, so for
someone to stand up and say "I don't like this, so I'll make a rule agains
it" it just arrogance on their part.

I'm not saying that everyone should top post, or bottom post, or middle
post, or even sideways post. It simply doesn't matter.

> All I've been able to ascertain to date is that you (ALWAYS)
> have an opinion as to why the Establishment is a Bad Thing[tm], and
> how The Man will never be able to keep you down.  Fight the power,
> Marston.  Spread the word of the Revolution.  Manifest Destiny!  (What
> was the argument again?)

It is my God-given right to question anything and everything, especially any
rule made by mortal man. If you don't like it when I have the audacity to
question

>> No, I don't like stupid rules, which is why I choose not to obey them.
>
>    This is like a five-year-old saying, "I don't like your stupid
> face, so I'm not gonna' look at it."  Reading your sentence, I
> envisage the voice of a spoiled toddler.
>
>> So not only are you dictating how I post, you are also dictating which
>> newsreader I should use? How arrogant!
>
>   Your arrogance toward the community and ignorance of fundamental,
> purposeful guidelines

I'm not trying to impose my will on the community, I'm just refusing to bow
to *your* will. If they are truly "guidelines" and not "rules" then stop
trying to force them down my throat. I don't tell you to stop with your anal
bottom posting, so stop telling me to stop with my traditional top posting.

> is proof of how sanctimonious you truly are.

Now who's name calling?

> Besides, since you are still using PHP 4.4.9 on your server, it's
> obvious that you don't like - and/or are afraid of - change, so no one
> is trying to tell you what software to use.

Both of my servers use PHP 5.2.9, and I modified my code to run under PHP as
soon as it was available. My code still runs under both PHP 4 and  5.

>    Anyway, since we're on the subject, while I have no interest in
> ever using RADICORE,

I shan't lose any sleep over that.

> I may be able to convince someone else to use it
> for free.  Wait, I would have to pay for a commercial?  That's a
> stupid rule, I'm just going to take it for free anyway, and damn what
> you say about it.

Violating a license agreement is against the law, top posting is not.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org

> --
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> daniel.brown@... || danbrown@...
> http://www.parasane.net/ || http://www.pilotpig.net/
> Check out our great hosting and dedicated server deals at
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[Daniel Brown-7]

On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:57, Tony Marston<tony@...> wrote:
>
> Violating a license agreement is against the law, top posting is not.

    Laws are rules set forth by mortal man.  I have the right by your
own word to choose not to obey this particular one.

    Your arguments hold no water, your experience has taught you
nothing, and your abilities to perform under pressure when facts are
pointed out against you have failed you.  From this point forward, you
don't even have the same respect from me as I would give to a rabid
animal, and while you may not care - nor am I inclined to think or be
concerned that you might or might not - I am satisfied in knowing that
I'm not the only one who thinks you, sir, are not worth the time spent
to think upon.

    Best of luck in anything you may hope to have success, including
learning to persuasively  debate a point.

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[Ashley Sheridan-3]

On Thu, 2009-07-09 at 16:57 +0100, Tony Marston wrote:
> It's stupid because there is no valid reason as to why top posting is
> *bad*.
> It has existed on the internet ever since there was an internet, so
> for
> someone to stand up and say "I don't like this, so I'll make a rule
> agains
> it" it just arrogance on their part.

Tony, I believe I (among others) mentioned a perfectly valid reason for
*not* top-posting.

In-case you forgot, I'll go through it again:

This mailing list is ingested (afaik) in three main ways by people:

     1. One email per message made to the list
     2. Daily email digests
     3. Web-based list archives

Now, it might not make too much difference where the posts are if you
are reading the list by the first means. Yeah, it's annoying seeing
emails that are a mix of top and bottom-posting, but it can be dealt
with.

The second way of reading through the list groups together bunches of
the messages, which is difficult to read if the posting is a mix of top
and bottom.

The web-based content is even more difficult to follow if the posting
types mix.

This list has always used bottom-posting as a convention, because if
everyone sticks to it, the whole thing is made easier to read by both
members and guests reading the list in their browsers.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned escalators. The convention in
the UK is to stand on the right, and walk on the left. It's different in
the US. Would you try and have an argument with someone on an escalator
because s/he thought you were on the wrong side because you're used to
using a particular side and can't be bothered to go by their
conventions? More and more as you post I find this is actually a likely
scenario, but I'm willing to accept you might not. The thing is, both
these things are general conventions, put in place to benefit others,
which hardly put you out of your way (as I mentioned yesterday, it can
be done in 1-2 seconds)

Please can you not just keep to the convention used on this list? The
list is not here solely for your benefit, but that of others too. People
often come here knowing little of PHP, and making their lives more
difficult by having threads that follow no logical convention is just
rude and inconsiderate.

Thanks
Ash
www.ashleysheridan.co.uk


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[HallMarc Websites]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley Sheridan [mailto:ash@...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2009 2:07 PM
> To: Tony Marston
> Cc: php-general@...
> Subject: Re: [PHP] Obeying the rules (was Simple login form with
> cookies)
>
> On Thu, 2009-07-09 at 16:57 +0100, Tony Marston wrote:
> > It's stupid because there is no valid reason as to why top posting is
> > *bad*.
> > It has existed on the internet ever since there was an internet, so
> > for
> > someone to stand up and say "I don't like this, so I'll make a rule
> > agains
> > it" it just arrogance on their part.
>
> Tony, I believe I (among others) mentioned a perfectly valid reason for
> *not* top-posting.
>
> In-case you forgot, I'll go through it again:
>
> This mailing list is ingested (afaik) in three main ways by people:
>
>      1. One email per message made to the list
>      2. Daily email digests
>      3. Web-based list archives
>
> Now, it might not make too much difference where the posts are if you
> are reading the list by the first means. Yeah, it's annoying seeing
> emails that are a mix of top and bottom-posting, but it can be dealt
> with.
>
> The second way of reading through the list groups together bunches of
> the messages, which is difficult to read if the posting is a mix of top
> and bottom.
>
> The web-based content is even more difficult to follow if the posting
> types mix.
>
> This list has always used bottom-posting as a convention, because if
> everyone sticks to it, the whole thing is made easier to read by both
> members and guests reading the list in their browsers.
>
> Someone earlier in the thread mentioned escalators. The convention in
> the UK is to stand on the right, and walk on the left. It's different
> in
> the US. Would you try and have an argument with someone on an escalator
> because s/he thought you were on the wrong side because you're used to
> using a particular side and can't be bothered to go by their
> conventions? More and more as you post I find this is actually a likely
> scenario, but I'm willing to accept you might not. The thing is, both
> these things are general conventions, put in place to benefit others,
> which hardly put you out of your way (as I mentioned yesterday, it can
> be done in 1-2 seconds)
>
> Please can you not just keep to the convention used on this list? The
> list is not here solely for your benefit, but that of others too.
> People
> often come here knowing little of PHP, and making their lives more
> difficult by having threads that follow no logical convention is just
> rude and inconsiderate.
>
> Thanks
> Ash
> www.ashleysheridan.co.uk
>
>
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>
> The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>

 
Having just come in to the particular thread, I actually have work that
keeps me away from here, I'm wondering why this is worth the energy and time
I have seen wasted on this subject. Seems to me everyone needs to take a
deep breath and a step back. As far as anyone going against convention,
seems to me that people who think outside the box, go against convention,
break the rules, whatever are the ones who keep life interesting and
occasionally help us find something new. I would hate to live in a real life
"Stepford Wives" existence.

[Marc Hall - HallMarc Websites - http://www.hallmarcwebsites.com
610.446.3346]


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[Tony Marston]

"Ashley Sheridan" <ash@...> wrote in message
news:1247162816.3514.17.camel@......

> On Thu, 2009-07-09 at 16:57 +0100, Tony Marston wrote:
>> It's stupid because there is no valid reason as to why top posting is
>> *bad*.
>> It has existed on the internet ever since there was an internet, so
>> for
>> someone to stand up and say "I don't like this, so I'll make a rule
>> agains
>> it" it just arrogance on their part.
>
> Tony, I believe I (among others) mentioned a perfectly valid reason for
> *not* top-posting.
>
> In-case you forgot, I'll go through it again:
>
> This mailing list is ingested (afaik) in three main ways by people:
>
>     1. One email per message made to the list
>     2. Daily email digests
>     3. Web-based list archives

You may think they are valid reasons, but I do not. When I first started to
post in newsgroups top posting was not only allowed, it was encouraged, and
no-one complained. This went on for years, then all of a sudden someone
decided that top posting was bad, and made a rule against it. Why should I
change the habits of years just because you say so? Whether I post at the
top or the bottom DOESN'T REALLY MATTER. It is just another religious war.

I think bottom posting is bad because I have to scroll all the way to the
bottom of the post in order to read the response, whereas if its at the top
I can read it without scrolling.

> Now, it might not make too much difference where the posts are if you
> are reading the list by the first means. Yeah, it's annoying seeing
> emails that are a mix of top and bottom-posting, but it can be dealt
> with.
>
> The second way of reading through the list groups together bunches of
> the messages, which is difficult to read if the posting is a mix of top
> and bottom.
>
> The web-based content is even more difficult to follow if the posting
> types mix.

The fact that there are many different ways of reading newsroups which
favour either top or bottom posting just adds to the chaos. My newsreader
favours top posting, so that's what I'll stick to.

> This list has always used bottom-posting as a convention, because if
> everyone sticks to it, the whole thing is made easier to read by both
> members and guests reading the list in their browsers.

Different newsgroups have different conventions, and I just can't be
bothered to switch from one to the other just to satisfy a petty whim.

> Someone earlier in the thread mentioned escalators.

And I have already pointed out that this was a false analogy. If I stand on
the wrong side of the escalator I will block other people, but if I top post
I block nobody. Some people may notice I've posted at the top, some may not.
Some may think it's bad, some may not. But wherever I post it does not stop
them from reading what I wrote.

> The convention in
> the UK is to stand on the right, and walk on the left. It's different in
> the US. Would you try and have an argument with someone on an escalator
> because s/he thought you were on the wrong side because you're used to
> using a particular side and can't be bothered to go by their
> conventions? More and more as you post I find this is actually a likely
> scenario, but I'm willing to accept you might not. The thing is, both
> these things are general conventions, put in place to benefit others,
> which hardly put you out of your way (as I mentioned yesterday, it can
> be done in 1-2 seconds)
>
> Please can you not just keep to the convention used on this list? The
> list is not here solely for your benefit, but that of others too. People
> often come here knowing little of PHP, and making their lives more
> difficult by having threads that follow no logical convention is just
> rude and inconsiderate.

Top posting does not make life more difficult, it does not make the post
unreadable. It is a minor detail of no great consequence, so stop trying to
make a federal case out of it.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org 



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[Bob McConnell]

From: HallMarc Websites
>  
> Having just come in to the particular thread, I actually have work
that
> keeps me away from here, I'm wondering why this is worth the energy
and time
> I have seen wasted on this subject. Seems to me everyone needs to take
a
> deep breath and a step back. As far as anyone going against
convention,
> seems to me that people who think outside the box, go against
convention,
> break the rules, whatever are the ones who keep life interesting and
> occasionally help us find something new. I would hate to live in a
real life
> "Stepford Wives" existence.

Actually, I found it quite amusing to watch Tony paint himself into a
corner and try to defend his indefensible position. He reminds me of a
number of individuals, and not a few institutions, whose attitude is
"I've already made up my mind, don't try to confuse me with facts."
Plus, it has been a timely and welcome diversion from other more
pressing issues. Who needs the Comedy channel when we have this?

It will be even more interesting to see if anyone on this list pays any
attention to him in the future.

Bob McConnell

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[tedd-2]

At 2:22 PM -0400 7/9/09, HallMarc Websites wrote:
>  As far as anyone going against convention,
>seems to me that people who think outside the box, go against convention,
>break the rules, whatever are the ones who keep life interesting and
>occasionally help us find something new. I would hate to live in a real life
>"Stepford Wives" existence.
>
>[Marc Hall - HallMarc Websites - http://www.hallmarcwebsites.com
>610.446.3346]


Marc:

True, one of the things that makes life interesting are those who
think outside "the box", but for some of us "the box" is a bit less
obvious and requires more thought.

When someone wants to argue a point, the point should be worth
arguing. This argument is akin to saying "I don't like calling today
'Thursday' -- I think that's stupid! So, I'll call it 'MyDay'
instead". While that would certainly be thinking outside "the box",
it would also not be worth debating.

I wish my life was so simple that I could raise issue with things
like this, but my life requires more cerebral windmills to tilt.

One of the things I've learned in my over 60 years, is to pick the
battles that are worth fighting and let other contentions pass. In
the wise, beyond their years, words of the Beatles "Let it be."

Cheers,

tedd
--
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[Mike Potter-2]

Tony Marston wrote:

> I have no respect for anyone who wastes time in trying to force others to
> obey their petty rules.

...
> The whole point about this particlar rule is that it has no purpose other
> than to force everybody to conform to somebody's idea of perfection.

You've been told more than twice, it isn't an arbitrary rule. It isn't
a petty rule. It isn't about perfection.

It's about clarity. So that the threaded archives are intelligible
instead of jumbled. So that the post-by-post emails properly read from
top to bottom.

It's also about courtesy, not dropping dingleberries dozens or scores
of lines long (and some of you others could stand to snip the extraneous
even though you do properly bottom-post).

Like has been said: if you don't play by the playground rules, don't
be surprised if the other kids don't want to play with you.

SL



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[tedd-2]

At 2:38 PM -0400 7/9/09, Bob McConnell wrote:
>It will be even more interesting to see if anyone on this list pays any
>attention to him in the future.
>
>Bob McConnell

Bob:

You won't have to wonder about me.  I've already set email filters to
trash any incoming from him.

A *few* on this list don't appreciate is that there are many of us
who donate our time freely in an attempt to help others. We do this
without any compensation nor profitable credit. We all come from
various skill levels, diverse backgrounds, and each usually provide
an unique solution and perspective to the problem presented. In
short, what we have to say matters.

What I offer is pretty basic as compared to the truly great ones on
this list (i.e., Daniel, Stuart, Rob, et all). I feel privileged that
my humble offerings are even permitted, but I think my contribution
is to answer the more obvious questions thereby freeing the more
knowledgeable to answer the more difficult ones.

However, when I see a debate over such minor points, I can't help but
note the waste of time and talent and thus the reason for my post. I
just hope that the other contributors on this list fully understand
the value of their contribution and spend their time and talents
where they are appreciated and not waste them on such nonsense.

Cheers,

tedd

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[Martin Scotta]

Hi all

I haven't read any post from here.
I want to read PHP threads.

is this going somewhere? I think not.


On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 4:13 PM, tedd<tedd.sperling@...> wrote:

> At 2:38 PM -0400 7/9/09, Bob McConnell wrote:
>>
>> It will be even more interesting to see if anyone on this list pays any
>> attention to him in the future.
>>
>> Bob McConnell
>
> Bob:
>
> You won't have to wonder about me.  I've already set email filters to trash
> any incoming from him.
>
> A *few* on this list don't appreciate is that there are many of us who
> donate our time freely in an attempt to help others. We do this without any
> compensation nor profitable credit. We all come from various skill levels,
> diverse backgrounds, and each usually provide an unique solution and
> perspective to the problem presented. In short, what we have to say matters.
>
> What I offer is pretty basic as compared to the truly great ones on this
> list (i.e., Daniel, Stuart, Rob, et all). I feel privileged that my humble
> offerings are even permitted, but I think my contribution is to answer the
> more obvious questions thereby freeing the more knowledgeable to answer the
> more difficult ones.
>
> However, when I see a debate over such minor points, I can't help but note
> the waste of time and talent and thus the reason for my post. I just hope
> that the other contributors on this list fully understand the value of their
> contribution and spend their time and talents where they are appreciated and
> not waste them on such nonsense.
>
> Cheers,
>
> tedd
>
> --
> -------
> http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com
>
> --
> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/)
> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
>
>

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[Tony Marston]

""Bob McConnell"" <rvm@...> wrote in message
news:FF8482A96323694490C194BABEAC24A0049AD130@......
From: HallMarc Websites
>>
>> Having just come in to the particular thread, I actually have work
that
>> keeps me away from here, I'm wondering why this is worth the energy
and time
>> I have seen wasted on this subject. Seems to me everyone needs to take
a
>> deep breath and a step back. As far as anyone going against
convention,
>> seems to me that people who think outside the box, go against
convention,
>> break the rules, whatever are the ones who keep life interesting and
>> occasionally help us find something new. I would hate to live in a
real life
>> "Stepford Wives" existence.

> Actually, I found it quite amusing to watch Tony paint himself into a
> corner and try to defend his indefensible position.

Top posting is not indefensible as it has been used in other newsgroups
without problems for over a decade. It wasn't wrong then, so why is it wrong
now?

> He reminds me of a
> number of individuals, and not a few institutions, whose attitude is
> "I've already made up my mind, don't try to confuse me with facts."

The "fact" is that some people care about top posting while others do not.
Some people are passionately against it while others couldn't give a toss. I
personally don't give a toss, but I do see red when some jumped up pipsqueak
tries to force me to conform to his vision of what is right and wrong.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org

> Plus, it has been a timely and welcome diversion from other more
> pressing issues. Who needs the Comedy channel when we have this?
>
> It will be even more interesting to see if anyone on this list pays any
> attention to him in the future.
>
> Bob McConnell



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[Tony Marston]

"tedd" <tedd.sperling@...> wrote in message
news:p06240800c67be78e3d6d@[192.168.1.101]...

> At 2:22 PM -0400 7/9/09, HallMarc Websites wrote:
>>  As far as anyone going against convention,
>>seems to me that people who think outside the box, go against convention,
>>break the rules, whatever are the ones who keep life interesting and
>>occasionally help us find something new. I would hate to live in a real
>>life
>>"Stepford Wives" existence.
>>
>>[Marc Hall - HallMarc Websites - http://www.hallmarcwebsites.com
>>610.446.3346]
>
>
> Marc:
>
> True, one of the things that makes life interesting are those who think
> outside "the box", but for some of us "the box" is a bit less obvious and
> requires more thought.
>
> When someone wants to argue a point, the point should be worth arguing.
> This argument is akin to saying "I don't like calling today 'Thursday' --  
> I think that's stupid! So, I'll call it 'MyDay' instead". While that would
> certainly be thinking outside "the box", it would also not be worth
> debating.

Yet another fatuous argument. "Thursday" has never been called "Myday", so I
would never propose such a thing. Top posting is different for the simple
reason that it existed in other newsgroups long before this group started,
and I object to being forced to change my posting methods on nothing more
than a whim.

--
Tony Marston
http://www.tonymarston.net
http://www.radicore.org

> I wish my life was so simple that I could raise issue with things like
> this, but my life requires more cerebral windmills to tilt.
>
> One of the things I've learned in my over 60 years, is to pick the battles
> that are worth fighting and let other contentions pass. In the wise,
> beyond their years, words of the Beatles "Let it be."
>
> Cheers,
>
> tedd
> --
> -------
> http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com  http://earthstones.com 

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[Ashley Sheridan-3]

On Thursday 09 July 2009 20:50:59 Tony Marston wrote:

> ""Bob McConnell"" <rvm@...> wrote in message
> news:FF8482A96323694490C194BABEAC24A0049AD130@......
> From: HallMarc Websites
>
> >> Having just come in to the particular thread, I actually have work
>
> that
>
> >> keeps me away from here, I'm wondering why this is worth the energy
>
> and time
>
> >> I have seen wasted on this subject. Seems to me everyone needs to take
>
> a
>
> >> deep breath and a step back. As far as anyone going against
>
> convention,
>
> >> seems to me that people who think outside the box, go against
>
> convention,
>
> >> break the rules, whatever are the ones who keep life interesting and
> >> occasionally help us find something new. I would hate to live in a
>
> real life
>
> >> "Stepford Wives" existence.
> >
> > Actually, I found it quite amusing to watch Tony paint himself into a
> > corner and try to defend his indefensible position.
>
> Top posting is not indefensible as it has been used in other newsgroups
> without problems for over a decade. It wasn't wrong then, so why is it
> wrong now?
>
> > He reminds me of a
> > number of individuals, and not a few institutions, whose attitude is
> > "I've already made up my mind, don't try to confuse me with facts."
>
> The "fact" is that some people care about top posting while others do not.
> Some people are passionately against it while others couldn't give a toss.
> I personally don't give a toss, but I do see red when some jumped up
> pipsqueak tries to force me to conform to his vision of what is right and
> wrong.
>
> --
> Tony Marston
> http://www.tonymarston.net
> http://www.radicore.org
>
> > Plus, it has been a timely and welcome diversion from other more
> > pressing issues. Who needs the Comedy channel when we have this?
> >
> > It will be even more interesting to see if anyone on this list pays any
> > attention to him in the future.
> >
> > Bob McConnell

It's not a matter of "it was OK then, why not now", but a matter of "it was OK
*there* but not *here*" very different I think you'll find. It's just
standard social protocol on the Internet to go with the rules of the area
you're in. If the rules of the list say no top-posting, why do you have to go
against them. They are there for a reason, but you seem to blatantly ignore
anyone who mentions the reasons, and latch on to things you feel you can
argue against.

Also, I'd hardly call anyone here a jumped-up pipsqueak just because we aren't
too old to go by new rules. The only reason I'm bringing your age into this
is because you keep mentioning your last "30 years" online on mailing lists.
There are older members than you on the list, and yet they find no problem
following the rules that make this list easy for everyone to use.

--
Thanks,
Ash
http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk

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