SmartSVN 6.0.2 and Show Changes

[Andrew Scott-9]

The difference there is that Apple is the name of the company, hence you can’t make that statement.


From: smartsvn@... [mailto:smartsvn@...] On Behalf Of Prakash Nadar
Sent: Thursday, 25 June 2009 9:58 AM
To: smartsvn@...
Subject: Re: [smartsvn] SmartSVN 6.0.2 and Show Changes





I think it is kinda stupid to say that SmartSVN should be smart coz the name has Smart in It. It does smart stuff.

Apple Macbook is made from apples. oh yeah.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[syntevo Support-3]

Hi Andrew,

Why do you think you have found out what is the ultimate way to do it? I'm
not able to say that I know the right way. Please also think about the fact,
that thousands of happy SmartSVN users are used to how it works now. Making
an existing feature behave differently than they are accustomed would be
very bad from a usability perspective. I'm sure that making you happy by
changing that feature would not justify to frustrate the other SmartSVN users.

We are going to add a separate menu item "Query|Compare with HEAD" which, of
course, only will work for selected files (not for items in the Output or
Transactions pane).

--
Best regards,
Thomas Singer
=============
syntevo GmbH
http://www.syntevo.com


Andrew Scott wrote:

>
> The smart way to work as this program is called smartSVN, is to work in this manner.
>
>
>
> In a team environment or not, if the local copy changes the compare should be against the SVN head, unless explicitly told otherwise. We do ALL our work in an IDE that has local compare, but its nice to know we can fall back to smartSVN if we need too. To have to manually add an option to the RMB context menu to achieve this is counterproductive, and that has been acknowledge. But it should not have to be a manual thing the user sets up.
>
>
>
> When we sync our changes we might have 15-30 files that need syncing, most of the time they are a one way sync so we can just do the update/commit. But when we need to do this productively we need to compare against the head and not what has changed against our local copy. This is where the confusion arises because the program assumes we know how to set this up to be in the RMB context menu, it also assumes we know that it defaults to checking the local (pristine copy) which is not what the good majority of people who use this program will be doing.
>
>
>
> The only time we revert back to doing a compare against the local copies, is when a merge or conflict has gone wrong. Which in our case is not very often.
>
>
>
> This program works in the reverse, and I made the note to check out the Eclipse plugins because they are geared to developers who work in a team environment who need to constantly check against the head of SVN, smartSVn doesn’t do this productively and becomes more of a hindrance for us who need it to work this way.
>
>
>
> Compares with local copies should be considered as a last resort, this program is called smartSVN the name suggests that it is a SVN tool to help us be productive against the SVN repository and not our local copies. Otherwise this program should be called smartLocalCompare.
>
>
>
> A user can be easily mislead by the way a program works in the field it is supposed to be of benefit, in my eyes I have highlighted that this program is not geared to the use that it was intentially designed and that is for a tool to be used against the SVN repository as its main feature.
>
>
>
> Have a good think about that for a minute then put yourself in our shoes, were local compares are taken care of by the IDE’s in which we use.
>
>
>
> So in answer to what do I think?
>
>
>
> If locally modified it SHOULD compare against SVN, if there is an issue that makes the local cache copy invalid or wrong then an option to compare back over a list of revisions would be great. This is exactly why I asked that you should look at the Subversive and Subclipse and other SVN plugins for Eclipse they are geared to this type of work because that is what developers need more, a compare against local is only ever done when a developer does a bad merge and a rollback on SVN is required.
>
>
>
> I think smartSVN needs to be more aware of developers and how they might work with this program, and I will say it one last time compare aginst local copies should be last resort to get a resolved conflict.
>
>
>
> If this is not the intention you are pushing this great program, then maybe an Eclipse plugin that worked the way developers NEED it to work would be more beneficial that could also work with smartSVN. Currently this is impossible if I try to use smartSVN and Subversive to work together as it makes one or the other out of date with the version numbers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: smartsvn@... [mailto:smartsvn@...] On Behalf Of syntevo Support
>
> Sent: Thursday, 25 June 2009 5:12 AM
>
> To: smartsvn@...
>
> Subject: Re: [smartsvn] SmartSVN 6.0.2 and Show Changes
>
>
>
>
>
> We think splitting this menu item into multiple ones again won't make things
>
> more intuitive. But when performing Show Changes on a file (modified or not),
>
> SmartSVN could *optionally* ask what to compare:
>
>
>
> - Working copy vs. pristine copy (default, if locally modified)
>
> - Working copy vs. HEAD (default, if not modified)
>
> - Pristine copy vs. HEAD
>
>
>
> What do you all think?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

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[Andrew Scott-9]

Good because that is all I asked for.

Productivity is a key issue, and when you stop people in their tracks to try understand what is going on then that is a bad thing.

In the files window, the only thing I see as a new installation is show changes. I am automatically going to assume that as this is a SVN tool that it is going to do a compare against the SVN. IT DOESN’T DOES IT?

So not only have you as a company assumed that a new user is automatically going to know that it WILL NOT compare against the SVN head, but you also make the assumption that they are going to know how to put the RMB context menu there as well.

In simpler terms, when someone picks this application up and they see a menu that says

Compare To->

Which then can have the following sub menus

Base from working Copy
Latest from Repository
Revision or URL
Branch
Tag
Each Other
Local History

Now on top of that I could also have a menu that has the following underneath the Compare To called Replace With the same options.

Straight away I already know what I want to do, but with smartSVN I don’t have those options.

Now do you see why I said you could learn a lot from the Eclipse plugins?

You can also see at a snapshot that the user is not going all over the place to do simple SVN tasks, now others might be happy to continue with the way they work. But if I want to do a compare with or replace with I have one location and then I select the option I need to do. smartSVN doesn’t allow me to do this, and decreases productivity, because of it.





From: smartsvn@... [mailto:smartsvn@...] On Behalf Of syntevo Support
Sent: Thursday, 25 June 2009 4:33 PM
To: smartsvn@...
Subject: Re: [smartsvn] SmartSVN 6.0.2 and Show Changes





Hi Andrew,

Why do you think you have found out what is the ultimate way to do it? I'm
not able to say that I know the right way. Please also think about the fact,
that thousands of happy SmartSVN users are used to how it works now. Making
an existing feature behave differently than they are accustomed would be
very bad from a usability perspective. I'm sure that making you happy by
changing that feature would not justify to frustrate the other SmartSVN users.

We are going to add a separate menu item "Query|Compare with HEAD" which, of
course, only will work for selected files (not for items in the Output or
Transactions pane).

--
Best regards,
Thomas Singer
=============
syntevo GmbH
http://www.syntevo.com

Andrew Scott wrote:

>
> The smart way to work as this program is called smartSVN, is to work in this manner.
>
>
>
> In a team environment or not, if the local copy changes the compare should be against the SVN head, unless explicitly told otherwise. We do ALL our work in an IDE that has local compare, but its nice to know we can fall back to smartSVN if we need too. To have to manually add an option to the RMB context menu to achieve this is counterproductive, and that has been acknowledge. But it should not have to be a manual thing the user sets up.
>
>
>
> When we sync our changes we might have 15-30 files that need syncing, most of the time they are a one way sync so we can just do the update/commit. But when we need to do this productively we need to compare against the head and not what has changed against our local copy. This is where the confusion arises because the program assumes we know how to set this up to be in the RMB context menu, it also assumes we know that it defaults to checking the local (pristine copy) which is not what the good majority of people who use this program will be doing.
>
>
>
> The only time we revert back to doing a compare against the local copies, is when a merge or conflict has gone wrong. Which in our case is not very often.
>
>
>
> This program works in the reverse, and I made the note to check out the Eclipse plugins because they are geared to developers who work in a team environment who need to constantly check against the head of SVN, smartSVn doesn’t do this productively and becomes more of a hindrance for us who need it to work this way.
>
>
>
> Compares with local copies should be considered as a last resort, this program is called smartSVN the name suggests that it is a SVN tool to help us be productive against the SVN repository and not our local copies. Otherwise this program should be called smartLocalCompare.
>
>
>
> A user can be easily mislead by the way a program works in the field it is supposed to be of benefit, in my eyes I have highlighted that this program is not geared to the use that it was intentially designed and that is for a tool to be used against the SVN repository as its main feature.
>
>
>
> Have a good think about that for a minute then put yourself in our shoes, were local compares are taken care of by the IDE’s in which we use.
>
>
>
> So in answer to what do I think?
>
>
>
> If locally modified it SHOULD compare against SVN, if there is an issue that makes the local cache copy invalid or wrong then an option to compare back over a list of revisions would be great. This is exactly why I asked that you should look at the Subversive and Subclipse and other SVN plugins for Eclipse they are geared to this type of work because that is what developers need more, a compare against local is only ever done when a developer does a bad merge and a rollback on SVN is required.
>
>
>
> I think smartSVN needs to be more aware of developers and how they might work with this program, and I will say it one last time compare aginst local copies should be last resort to get a resolved conflict.
>
>
>
> If this is not the intention you are pushing this great program, then maybe an Eclipse plugin that worked the way developers NEED it to work would be more beneficial that could also work with smartSVN. Currently this is impossible if I try to use smartSVN and Subversive to work together as it makes one or the other out of date with the version numbers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: smartsvn@...<mailto:smartsvn%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:smartsvn@...<mailto:smartsvn%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of syntevo Support
>
> Sent: Thursday, 25 June 2009 5:12 AM
>
> To: smartsvn@...<mailto:smartsvn%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> Subject: Re: [smartsvn] SmartSVN 6.0.2 and Show Changes
>
>
>
>
>
> We think splitting this menu item into multiple ones again won't make things
>
> more intuitive. But when performing Show Changes on a file (modified or not),
>
> SmartSVN could *optionally* ask what to compare:
>
>
>
> - Working copy vs. pristine copy (default, if locally modified)
>
> - Working copy vs. HEAD (default, if not modified)
>
> - Pristine copy vs. HEAD
>
>
>
> What do you all think?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

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<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smartsvn/

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