Strip assembly panoramas with a digital slr -- for stereo etc

[panovrx]

Roger
(some people cant bear the ghosting on the Iz3d so maybe you shdnt buy
one without sighting one working-- I took a punt so maybe I am
motivated to find it usable :-)  )


the Iz3d is not available in Australia either but I shipped one in
(for about $400 shipping) -- but now they are offering a deep rebate
on shipping. I think they will release a new less ghosting larger
model in a few months. A good percentage of subjects are too
contrasty to work with it well but for certain subjects it is great I
think.  The Opengl driver from Iz3d you need for flexibility in 3d
apps is very beta too and costs money.

On my stereo PC desktop I have two monitors now -- a CRT for shutter
glasses and the Iz3d for polarizing glasses. The CRT has very little
ghosting but flicker from the glasses. More 3d detail is visible on
the Iz3d if the ghosting is not too strong.

Yes stereo panoramas are really cool I think and look great on a big
screen projected. In 2004 I did a bunch in Angkor using similar gear
for a 3d theatre in Melbourne Museum where they are wrapped around a
8 screen virtual fishtank arrangement -- so the panorama is kind of
turned inside out -- so you are looking in at it rather than out as
would be the more natural arrangement. But still it works pretty
good. Surround screens are generally not spherical though. Better
would be stereo dome projection off a mirror say. (Big for portable
planetarium concepts at the moment) -- but then you wouldnt get views
below the horizon.
Interactive stereo panoramas on a screen though are good as are HMDs
with tracking.

Peter Murphy
www.mediavr.com/blog


--- In PanoToolsNG@..., "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
wrote:
>
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 00:04:24 +0900, panovrx <mediavr@...> wrote:
>
> > Re stereo panorama viewing -- http://www.gali-
> > 3d.com/archive/articles/StereoPanorama/StereoPanorama.php is a
cool
> > stereo pano viewer that I often use for checking retouching of
stereo
> > pano pairs and I got this working tonight with the Iz3d display.
> > http://www.iz3d.com -- after installing - with much fiddling - the
> > new Iz3d Opengl stereo driver
> >
> > The Iz3d screen is the clearest I have seen stereo panos on a 3d
> > display. If Iz3d could only reduce the ghosting a bit with the
screen

> > they would have killer product imo.
>
> Peter, it doesn't look as if the iZ3D display is available in Japan,
> although I expect that with gaming fever at the high temperature it
> is here there must be some local equivalent. I'll start looking. I
> have kept a couple of 19" CRT monitors specifically so that I could
> use their fast switching speed for "gated" viewing--and LCDs were
> not capable of high enough speeds when I checked a few years ago.
> But they are such space HOGS I would like to get rid of them. Two
> 19" CRT displays on a desk don't leave much room for anything else.
>
> People who have never seen a 3D panorama have not seen panoramas at
> their best. If you are "hooked" on immersive panoramas and haven't
> seen them in 3D you owe it to yourself to do so. There now, I hope
> that puts me back on topic. <grin>
>
> Roger W.
>
> --
> Work: www.adex-japan.com
> Play: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
>

[Roger D. Williams]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:27:17 +0900, panovrx <mediavr@...> wrote:

> Roger
> (some people cant bear the ghosting on the Iz3d so maybe you shdnt buy
> one without sighting one working-- I took a punt so maybe I am
> motivated to find it usable :-)  )

What exactly do you mean by ghosting?

> the Iz3d is not available in Australia either but I shipped one in
> (for about $400 shipping) -- but now they are offering a deep rebate

Wow. That's well on the way to doubling the cost.

> on shipping. I think they will release a new less ghosting larger
> model in a few months. A good percentage of subjects are too
> contrasty to work with it well but for certain subjects it is great I
> think.  The Opengl driver from Iz3d you need for flexibility in 3d
> apps is very beta too and costs money.

I generally refuse to mess with beta versions of anything, which
means I will have to wait.

> On my stereo PC desktop I have two monitors now -- a CRT for shutter
> glasses and the Iz3d for polarizing glasses. The CRT has very little
> ghosting but flicker from the glasses. More 3d detail is visible on
> the Iz3d if the ghosting is not too strong.

Ah, I see. I had assumed that the LCD display must be a fast-switching
design for shutter glasses. Wonder how they produce oppositely
polarized images from the one screen...?

> Yes stereo panoramas are really cool I think and look great on a big
> screen projected. In 2004 I did a bunch in Angkor using similar gear
> for a 3d theatre in Melbourne Museum where they are wrapped around a
> 8 screen virtual fishtank arrangement -- so the panorama is kind of
> turned inside out -- so you are looking in at it rather than out as
> would be the more natural arrangement. But still it works pretty

Hmmm. All the data for a real, 3D immersive experience is in the stereo
pair of panoramic images, but getting that out where people can be
immersed in it is the problem. Sounds like you are well on the way,
though.

> good. Surround screens are generally not spherical though. Better
> would be stereo dome projection off a mirror say. (Big for portable
> planetarium concepts at the moment) -- but then you wouldnt get views
> below the horizon.
> Interactive stereo panoramas on a screen though are good as are HMDs
> with tracking.

Ummmm. HMD as in head-mounted display?

Roger W.

--
Work: www.adex-japan.com
Play: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

[panovrx]

Roger
I dont understand how the Iz3d screen works but there is a a white
paper linked to their site but it is beyond me. there are two LCD
screens one on top of the other close together. One is black and
white and the other is colour and more normal looking. The black and
white screen controls the polarization of the light going through it
and controls the visibility to either eye of information encoded at a
subpixel level in the color image -- I think --

The screen looks like a normal (quite good actually) LCD screen
without glasses.

Ghosting means the left image say is visible slightly thru the right
lens even tho it shdnt be -- and produces a halo outline especially
against a light background.

Yes HMD= head mounted display. I made the stereo panorama background
for instance for this multimedia art piece a while back
http://www.icinema.unsw.edu.au/projects/prj_conversations.html
Video characters appeared to run around in 3d in the 3d panorama and
talk to you.

Peter Murphy
www.mediavr.com/blog

--- In PanoToolsNG@..., "Roger D. Williams" <roger@...>
wrote:
>
> On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:27:17 +0900, panovrx <mediavr@...> wrote:
>
> > Roger
> > (some people cant bear the ghosting on the Iz3d so maybe you
shdnt buy
> > one without sighting one working-- I took a punt so maybe I am
> > motivated to find it usable :-)  )
>
> What exactly do you mean by ghosting?
>
> > the Iz3d is not available in Australia either but I shipped one in
> > (for about $400 shipping) -- but now they are offering a deep
rebate
>
> Wow. That's well on the way to doubling the cost.
>
> > on shipping. I think they will release a new less ghosting larger
> > model in a few months. A good percentage of subjects are too
> > contrasty to work with it well but for certain subjects it is
great I
> > think.  The Opengl driver from Iz3d you need for flexibility in 3d
> > apps is very beta too and costs money.
>
> I generally refuse to mess with beta versions of anything, which
> means I will have to wait.
>
> > On my stereo PC desktop I have two monitors now -- a CRT for
shutter
> > glasses and the Iz3d for polarizing glasses. The CRT has very
little
> > ghosting but flicker from the glasses. More 3d detail is visible
on
> > the Iz3d if the ghosting is not too strong.
>
> Ah, I see. I had assumed that the LCD display must be a fast-
switching
> design for shutter glasses. Wonder how they produce oppositely
> polarized images from the one screen...?
>
> > Yes stereo panoramas are really cool I think and look great on a
big
> > screen projected. In 2004 I did a bunch in Angkor using similar
gear
> > for a 3d theatre in Melbourne Museum where they are wrapped
around a
> > 8 screen virtual fishtank arrangement -- so the panorama is kind
of
> > turned inside out -- so you are looking in at it rather than out
as
> > would be the more natural arrangement. But still it works pretty
>
> Hmmm. All the data for a real, 3D immersive experience is in the
stereo
> pair of panoramic images, but getting that out where people can be
> immersed in it is the problem. Sounds like you are well on the way,
> though.
>
> > good. Surround screens are generally not spherical though. Better
> > would be stereo dome projection off a mirror say. (Big for
portable
> > planetarium concepts at the moment) -- but then you wouldnt get
views
> > below the horizon.
> > Interactive stereo panoramas on a screen though are good as are
HMDs

> > with tracking.
>
> Ummmm. HMD as in head-mounted display?
>
> Roger W.
>
> --
> Work: www.adex-japan.com
> Play: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
>

[Roger D. Williams]

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 12:05:24 +0900, panovrx <mediavr@...> wrote:

> Roger
> I dont understand how the Iz3d screen works but there is a a white
> paper linked to their site but it is beyond me. there are two LCD
> screens one on top of the other close together. One is black and
> white and the other is colour and more normal looking. The black and
> white screen controls the polarization of the light going through it
> and controls the visibility to either eye of information encoded at a
> subpixel level in the color image -- I think --

Well, that makes sense, because essentially the switching mechanism
for liquid crystal displays in general utilizes the polarization
effect. I should have thought of that, having done enough translations
 from Japanese on the subject over the years. It's the same principle
as the LCD shutters used on some copy machines/printers.

> The screen looks like a normal (quite good actually) LCD screen
> without glasses.
>
> Ghosting means the left image say is visible slightly thru the right
> lens even tho it shdnt be -- and produces a halo outline especially
> against a light background.

I see. Not good.

> Yes HMD= head mounted display. I made the stereo panorama background
> for instance for this multimedia art piece a while back
> http://www.icinema.unsw.edu.au/projects/prj_conversations.html
> Video characters appeared to run around in 3d in the 3d panorama and
> talk to you.

Fascinating. If I were younger I would probably be jumping into this
field. I am fortunately still young enough to enjoy its benefits!

Roger W.

--
Work: www.adex-japan.com
Play: www.usefilm.com/member/roger

[David Sykes-3]

Hello Peter,

it is good to see that SPM feature is being used.

I introduced it to SPM (and provided the Help file) and Masuji SUTO
coded it.


The sandpit panorama that I did was done with a humble Canon A620 in
movie mode.

Every frame is a JPG image 640x480.

As far as I know, you are the only other person working with this SDM
feature.

The same method is used by HumanEyes software to create studio
lenticular images.


David

[panovrx]

Here is an anaglyph version of the finished panorama of the cave.
http://www.mediavr.com/cerberusanaglyph.htm
The camera separation I used with this scene is a bit large for
anaglyph.

Peter Murphy
http://www.mediavr.com/blog


--- In PanoToolsNG@..., "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.mediavr.com/cerberusr.htm
>
> This is a (unretouched) spherical pano of a cave but not stitched
in
> the usual way ie. blended images -- it is assembled in a few
seconds
> out of 120 (3 degree) very narrow vertical images strips with no
> blending at all  -- using the mosaic tool of the excellent
> Stereophoto Maker.
>
> It is the right shot of a stereo pair. It is the middle exposure of
> bracketed sequences. I havent enfused the other exposure panos with
> it yet.
> It was shot with a very accurate 120 step indexing head I made from
a
> large gear with a strip of brass clicking into the teeth
>
> The camera here is to the right of the zero parallax point as it
> rotates by about 7 cms but still because the steps are so small
> perspective jumps are mostly invisible and the light (surprisingly
> one might think) seems constant across the joins.
>
> Each strip is a 3 by 180 degree equirectangular strip from a
5D/Nikkor
> fisheye -- generated very quickly in PTGui or via a script with the
> Panotools plugin.
>
> Why would you want to make panoramas this way --
>
> -- well you can totally automate the stitching process -- it is
more
> forgiving of slight positioning errors than standard template
> stitching (here with stereo panoramas the mispositioning is extreme
> compared with standard stitching practice  - yet still it stitches
ok
> automatically)
> -- though you must be careful with the constancy of the alignment
of
> the camera tilt and roll with the rotation axis -- I use a digital
> level to check)
>
> .. it is good for stereo panoramas using either the two cameras (or
> one camera with shift) or single camera/single rotation methods
>
> .. it is good for scene contrast as you can put a custom lens hood
on
> the lens to give a narrow strip view of the scene ... and hence is
> good for hdr panoramas too.
>
> Peter Murphy
> http://www.mediavr.com/blog
>

[Ken Warner-3]

It works.  I'm not a real big fan of anaglyphs -- they
are always too dark.  But it works...

panovrx wrote:

> Here is an anaglyph version of the finished panorama of the cave.
> http://www.mediavr.com/cerberusanaglyph.htm
> The camera separation I used with this scene is a bit large for
> anaglyph.
>
> Peter Murphy
> http://www.mediavr.com/blog
>
>
> --- In PanoToolsNG@..., "panovrx" <mediavr@...> wrote:
>
>>http://www.mediavr.com/cerberusr.htm
>>
>>This is a (unretouched) spherical pano of a cave but not stitched
>
> in
>
>>the usual way ie. blended images -- it is assembled in a few
>
> seconds
>
>>out of 120 (3 degree) very narrow vertical images strips with no
>>blending at all  -- using the mosaic tool of the excellent
>>Stereophoto Maker.
>>
>>It is the right shot of a stereo pair. It is the middle exposure of
>>bracketed sequences. I havent enfused the other exposure panos with
>>it yet.
>>It was shot with a very accurate 120 step indexing head I made from
>
> a
>
>>large gear with a strip of brass clicking into the teeth
>>
>>The camera here is to the right of the zero parallax point as it
>>rotates by about 7 cms but still because the steps are so small
>>perspective jumps are mostly invisible and the light (surprisingly
>>one might think) seems constant across the joins.
>>
>>Each strip is a 3 by 180 degree equirectangular strip from a
>
> 5D/Nikkor
>
>>fisheye -- generated very quickly in PTGui or via a script with the
>>Panotools plugin.
>>
>>Why would you want to make panoramas this way --
>>
>>-- well you can totally automate the stitching process -- it is
>
> more
>
>>forgiving of slight positioning errors than standard template
>>stitching (here with stereo panoramas the mispositioning is extreme
>>compared with standard stitching practice  - yet still it stitches
>
> ok
>
>>automatically)
>>-- though you must be careful with the constancy of the alignment
>
> of
>
>>the camera tilt and roll with the rotation axis -- I use a digital
>>level to check)
>>
>>.. it is good for stereo panoramas using either the two cameras (or
>>one camera with shift) or single camera/single rotation methods
>>
>>.. it is good for scene contrast as you can put a custom lens hood
>
> on
>
>>the lens to give a narrow strip view of the scene ... and hence is
>>good for hdr panoramas too.
>>
>>Peter Murphy
>>http://www.mediavr.com/blog
>>
>
>
>
>

[Kathy Wheeler]

> panovrx wrote:
>> Here is an anaglyph version of the finished panorama of the cave.
>> http://www.mediavr.com/cerberusanaglyph.htm

Yes it certainly works. Pity it loses all the beautiful depth of  
colour of the original un-retouched version
(http://www.mediavr.com/cerberusr.htm but it doesn't seem to be there  
now?)

KathyW.