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Stripes Ignored...Again
by Gregg Bolinger-7
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I know Stripes is young but its really solid. However, it doesn't
hardly get a blip on the "which framework" radar. I think this is primarily because it's not a component framework. (thanks God). Example, it was left off Matt Raible's latest blog entry: http://raibledesigns.com/rd/entry/comparing_web_frameworks_time_for I thought about leaving a comment but I don't really see the point. I'm content to keep using it regardless of mass appeal. I just hope that there are enough folks that feel the same way so that it keeps being developed. What I don't understand is why other developers think that convoluted monolithic beasts like Seam and Wicket are supperior? And what's up with GWT being on that list as a Web Framework? It's a client side rendering engine. Same with Flex and OpenLazslo. You can't develop anything without server side code which neither frameworks provide. Oh well. Gregg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by Barry Davies-2
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My first instinct after reading what you linked to was to post a snarky reply to the effect of, "I'll just let Stripes stay a competitive advantage for me, then", but then a wave of would-that-get-anyone-to-investigate-stripes kicked in with a moderate dose of laziness tossed in for good measure, and I didn't respond. Still, though, if we don't advocate for Stripes, no one will... -BD aka RJ ----- Original Message ---- From: Gregg Bolinger <gdboling.stripes@...> To: Stripes Users List <stripes-users@...> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 1:26:06 PM Subject: [Stripes-users] Stripes Ignored...Again I know Stripes is young but its really solid. However, it doesn't hardly get a blip on the "which framework" radar. I think this is primarily because it's not a component framework. (thanks God). Example, it was left off Matt Raible's latest blog entry: http://raibledesigns.com/rd/entry/comparing_web_frameworks_time_for I thought about leaving a comment but I don't really see the point. I'm content to keep using it regardless of mass appeal. I just hope that there are enough folks that feel the same way so that it keeps being developed. What I don't understand is why other developers think that convoluted monolithic beasts like Seam and Wicket are supperior? And what's up with GWT being on that list as a Web Framework? It's a client side rendering engine. Same with Flex and OpenLazslo. You can't develop anything without server side code which neither frameworks provide. Oh well. Gregg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo Mobile. Try it now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by John W Newman
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Since when has public opinion been a good indicator of how great
something is? It should be expected! From:
stripes-users-bounces@...
[mailto:stripes-users-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Barry
Davies My first instinct after reading what you
linked to was to post a snarky reply to the effect of, "I'll just let
Stripes stay a competitive advantage for me, then", but then a wave of
would-that-get-anyone-to-investigate-stripes kicked in with a moderate dose of
laziness tossed in for good measure, and I didn't respond. Still, though,
if we don't advocate for Stripes, no one will... ----- Original Message ---- Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Yahoo
Mobile. Try
it now. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by transient
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In my professional career I have used strtus1/2,webwork,spring mvc..... and Stripes and I truly believe that Stripes is the best request based MVC framework. That being said I usually don't miss an opportunity to advocate stripes. Stripes should not be ignored and I would like people(who visit his blog) to notice that.
Hey, if Struts can be a very popular framework why can't a Stripes(which is certainly better than Struts).
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by mraible
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I agree that Stripes is an excellent framework. However, I also believe it needs better marketing. It's virtually unknown because there aren't that many articles, books or blogs posted about it. I've tried to sell it to companies on my last two projects and it's often shunned because no one has heard of it. Also, there's no "poster child" application that proves it's a great framework for a large-scale deployment.
I definitely like it and would prefer to use it when developing an application that needs a request-based framework. However, it's been very difficult to convince companies that it's a good idea. More and more, I'm seeing Spring MVC chosen by companies because they are already using Spring in the middle-tier or backend. It's unfortunate, but I can also understand the justification behind it. Matt
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by VANKEISBELCK Remi-2
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Hello Matt,
No pun intended, but I don't understand the logic here... If you really feel Stripes is great, but suffers from "undermarketing", then why didn't you mention it in your blog ? Folks like you are probably our best way to market Stripes, being a well known blogger in the JEE space with established reputation... Us, poor anonymous coders, don't have such power when it comes to "spread the word". We can talk about Stripes in technical words, but we don't have thousands of decision makers listening to us. Stripes suffers under-marketing simply because it's been created by techies for techies, not by people who's job is to hijack each thread in every forum, just to sell their "shit". We, Stripes users and devs, have more interesting stuff to do : push what we think is the best MVC out there, and mof of all, use tools that make us more productive. We live by selling apps, not paperware or over-hyped articles. Last, I feel your comments "unfair" (once again no offense, just constructive criticism), as I don't think most of the frameworks you present in your blog entry are accepted as wide scale solutions in the IT industry (Grails, Wicket etc.). It's easy to surf the hype wave. RIA and other Ajax stuff have all eyes on them at the moment, so I guess blogging about them make many hits... What's more complex is to try to go the opposite way, defend principles you think are better, and resist the FUD. So, in the end, wasn't that blog entry a perfect place to talk about Stripes ? Cheers Remi On Nov 14, 2007 6:34 AM, mraible <matt@...> wrote: > > I agree that Stripes is an excellent framework. However, I also believe it > needs better marketing. It's virtually unknown because there aren't that > many articles, books or blogs posted about it. I've tried to sell it to > companies on my last two projects and it's often shunned because no one has > heard of it. Also, there's no "poster child" application that proves it's a > great framework for a large-scale deployment. > > I definitely like it and would prefer to use it when developing an > application that needs a request-based framework. However, it's been very > difficult to convince companies that it's a good idea. > > More and more, I'm seeing Spring MVC chosen by companies because they are > already using Spring in the middle-tier or backend. It's unfortunate, but I > can also understand the justification behind it. > > Matt > > > > Gregg Bolinger-7 wrote: > > > > I know Stripes is young but its really solid. However, it doesn't > > hardly get a blip on the "which framework" radar. I think this is > > primarily because it's not a component framework. (thanks God). > > Example, it was left off Matt Raible's latest blog entry: > > > > http://raibledesigns.com/rd/entry/comparing_web_frameworks_time_for > > > > I thought about leaving a comment but I don't really see the point. I'm > > content to keep using it regardless of mass appeal. I just hope that > > there are enough folks that feel the same way so that it keeps being > > developed. What I don't understand is why other developers think that > > convoluted monolithic beasts like Seam and Wicket are supperior? And > > what's up with GWT being on that list as a Web Framework? It's a client > > side rendering engine. Same with Flex and OpenLazslo. You can't > > develop anything without server side code which neither frameworks > > provide. Oh well. > > > > Gregg > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Stripes-users mailing list > > Stripes-users@... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Stripes-Ignored...Again-tf4800043.html#a13740290 > Sent from the stripes-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Stripes-users mailing list > Stripes-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by mraible
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You guys sound a lot like the Wicket guys a couple of years ago. Back then, they had low mailing list traffic and no books written about it. That's the same situation you are in. Now they have high traffic (one of the highest among Java web frameworks) and several books. In the past, they said both weren't important and now they've changed their tune.
Sure, I could help market Stripes more, but that's not my job since I don't use it everyday. Marketing is best done by users showing solutions and how it's better than other frameworks. I think Stripes is great, but it doesn't strike me as leaps and bounds above Struts 2 or Spring MVC. For those of you who think different, there needs to be articles and blog posts written that explain why it's so much better. Stripes needs a book written about it if it ever wants to become mainstream. That's simply how the Java world works. Of course, if it doesn't want to become mainstream, then no further marketing needs to be done - and other frameworks will continue to cherry pick its best ideas. IMHO, the best thing that could happen is what Ted Husted tried to start a couple of years ago: merge Stripes, Spring MVC and Struts 2. They're all so similar it'd make things a lot easier. Maybe in the end the solution looks like Stripes does now, but it'd at least eliminate the confusion. Matt
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by VANKEISBELCK Remi-2
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Hi again Matt,
Stripes doesn't play the same category than Wicket, for sure. Wicket folks tend to be much more complicated... and noisy :-P (just kidding I like Wicket a lot too). Yes, we'd need more "advertisement" if we want more people to "get Striped". Unfortunately, that's how life usually goes : fud has more power than reason... That's precisly why I replied your initial email : I didn't really understand why you would not mention Stripes if you think it's a good choice for MVC webapps. It sounded to me like "hey, it's cool but nobody knows about it, so no need to mention it"... hence my disappointment !! Reading this in crappy papers for managers is not surprising... but I would have expected that the great Matt Raible was beyond hype ;-P I don't think we Stripers want to rule'em all. We've already made our choice, and despite the criticism (most often based on pure fud), we like Stripes cause it just makes our jobs more interesting, and more productive. I don't really care if it gets Apache or becomes JSR-XYZ, and customers/end-users care even less... Moreover, maybe it's so reactive because of the "human" size of the project. Of course, it's a pity when you read comparisons where Stripes isn't even represented, but we can live with that. On the other hand, we also need critical mass if we want the project to survive, but I feel that we've already reached that point. Stripes is simple, and doesn't try to address all problems. You don't need an armada of devs to maintain it. Anyway. We don't beg for any support. Once again it's your blog, you write whatever you think appropriate in there, and promote the frameworks of your choice, we're not trying to hijack by any mean. I personnally read your blog quite often and like it a lot, you make really good points. But if you really think Stripes is a good option, and wanna help a small but amazing, passionate community to become more sustainable, please just drop a word or two for us in your next post... Such small, simple things are like a smile : it doesn't cost you anything, but still you have ROI ! And I really think it would be fair on a "scientific" level, as Stripes deserves its place amongst the other frameworks you have pointed out... maybe not in mailing lists stats or google page rank, but at least technically ;-P Cheers Remi On Nov 14, 2007 2:31 PM, mraible <matt@...> wrote: > > You guys sound a lot like the Wicket guys a couple of years ago. Back then, > they had low mailing list traffic and no books written about it. That's the > same situation you are in. Now they have high traffic (one of the highest > among Java web frameworks) and several books. In the past, they said both > weren't important and now they've changed their tune. > > Sure, I could help market Stripes more, but that's not my job since I don't > use it everyday. Marketing is best done by users showing solutions and how > it's better than other frameworks. I think Stripes is great, but it doesn't > strike me as leaps and bounds above Struts 2 or Spring MVC. For those of you > who think different, there needs to be articles and blog posts written that > explain why it's so much better. > > Stripes needs a book written about it if it ever wants to become mainstream. > That's simply how the Java world works. Of course, if it doesn't want to > become mainstream, then no further marketing needs to be done - and other > frameworks will continue to cherry pick its best ideas. > > IMHO, the best thing that could happen is what Ted Husted tried to start a > couple of years ago: merge Stripes, Spring MVC and Struts 2. They're all so > similar it'd make things a lot easier. Maybe in the end the solution looks > like Stripes does now, but it'd at least eliminate the confusion. > > Matt > > > > VANKEISBELCK Remi-2 wrote: > > > > Hello Matt, > > > > No pun intended, but I don't understand the logic here... > > If you really feel Stripes is great, but suffers from > > "undermarketing", then why didn't you mention it in your blog ? > > > > Folks like you are probably our best way to market Stripes, being a > > well known blogger in the JEE space with established reputation... > > Us, poor anonymous coders, don't have such power when it comes to > > "spread the word". We can talk about Stripes in technical words, but > > we don't have thousands of decision makers listening to us. > > > > Stripes suffers under-marketing simply because it's been created by > > techies for techies, not by people who's job is to hijack each thread > > in every forum, just to sell their "shit". > > We, Stripes users and devs, have more interesting stuff to do : push > > what we think is the best MVC out there, and mof of all, use tools > > that make us more productive. We live by selling apps, not paperware > > or over-hyped articles. > > > > Last, I feel your comments "unfair" (once again no offense, just > > constructive criticism), as I don't think most of the frameworks you > > present in your blog entry are accepted as wide scale solutions in the > > IT industry (Grails, Wicket etc.). > > > > It's easy to surf the hype wave. RIA and other Ajax stuff have all > > eyes on them at the moment, so I guess blogging about them make many > > hits... What's more complex is to try to go the opposite way, defend > > principles you think are better, and resist the FUD. > > > > So, in the end, wasn't that blog entry a perfect place to talk about > > Stripes ? > > > > Cheers > > > > Remi > > > > On Nov 14, 2007 6:34 AM, mraible <matt@...> wrote: > >> > >> I agree that Stripes is an excellent framework. However, I also believe > >> it > >> needs better marketing. It's virtually unknown because there aren't that > >> many articles, books or blogs posted about it. I've tried to sell it to > >> companies on my last two projects and it's often shunned because no one > >> has > >> heard of it. Also, there's no "poster child" application that proves it's > >> a > >> great framework for a large-scale deployment. > >> > >> I definitely like it and would prefer to use it when developing an > >> application that needs a request-based framework. However, it's been very > >> difficult to convince companies that it's a good idea. > >> > >> More and more, I'm seeing Spring MVC chosen by companies because they are > >> already using Spring in the middle-tier or backend. It's unfortunate, but > >> I > >> can also understand the justification behind it. > >> > >> Matt > >> > >> > >> > >> Gregg Bolinger-7 wrote: > >> > > >> > I know Stripes is young but its really solid. However, it doesn't > >> > hardly get a blip on the "which framework" radar. I think this is > >> > primarily because it's not a component framework. (thanks God). > >> > Example, it was left off Matt Raible's latest blog entry: > >> > > >> > http://raibledesigns.com/rd/entry/comparing_web_frameworks_time_for > >> > > >> > I thought about leaving a comment but I don't really see the point. > >> I'm > >> > content to keep using it regardless of mass appeal. I just hope that > >> > there are enough folks that feel the same way so that it keeps being > >> > developed. What I don't understand is why other developers think that > >> > convoluted monolithic beasts like Seam and Wicket are supperior? And > >> > what's up with GWT being on that list as a Web Framework? It's a > >> client > >> > side rendering engine. Same with Flex and OpenLazslo. You can't > >> > develop anything without server side code which neither frameworks > >> > provide. Oh well. > >> > > >> > Gregg > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > >> > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > >> > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > >> > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Stripes-users mailing list > >> > Stripes-users@... > >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > >> > > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> View this message in context: > >> http://www.nabble.com/Stripes-Ignored...Again-tf4800043.html#a13740290 > >> Sent from the stripes-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > >> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > >> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > >> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Stripes-users mailing list > >> Stripes-users@... > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Stripes-users mailing list > > Stripes-users@... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Stripes-Ignored...Again-tf4800043.html#a13746627 > > Sent from the stripes-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Stripes-users mailing list > Stripes-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by Gregg Bolinger-7
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>merge Stripes, Spring MVC and Struts 2.
Well, wouldn't that defeat the purpose and vision of what Stripes is? I'll admit that Spring MVC has gotten better in 2.5. The nasty binding tags are gone. But its still just not as simple as Stripes. Same with Struts. There was mention in a comment in that article about how Struts 2 can have no XML config, Clean URL's etc. When I went and checked this out you needed to turn on plugins to achieve this. Granted the current release of Stripes doesn't have clean URL's but if you look at the 1.5 trunk and its features its all there. We just need to get it out the door as at least an RC so we can promote that. Folks have been complaining for years that web development in java is too complicated. Stripes makes it simple yet folks still climb aboard the monolith giant FUD buzz trains. I work for a company in KC and have been working on projects for Adidas and using Stripes. Several other smaller projects I've been involved with uses Stripes. Unfortunately most are internal apps and so it makes it difficult to promote. Everyone I've personally shows Stripes to is now using it when possible and when it makes sense. I plan on more blog articles about Stripes. A long the lines of my latest one focusing on tutorials and how-to's. I've been playing around with a draft on how Stripes is a perfect fit for a primarily AJAX centric web application mainly because of its simplicity. Gregg mraible wrote: > You guys sound a lot like the Wicket guys a couple of years ago. Back then, > they had low mailing list traffic and no books written about it. That's the > same situation you are in. Now they have high traffic (one of the highest > among Java web frameworks) and several books. In the past, they said both > weren't important and now they've changed their tune. > > Sure, I could help market Stripes more, but that's not my job since I don't > use it everyday. Marketing is best done by users showing solutions and how > it's better than other frameworks. I think Stripes is great, but it doesn't > strike me as leaps and bounds above Struts 2 or Spring MVC. For those of you > who think different, there needs to be articles and blog posts written that > explain why it's so much better. > > Stripes needs a book written about it if it ever wants to become mainstream. > That's simply how the Java world works. Of course, if it doesn't want to > become mainstream, then no further marketing needs to be done - and other > frameworks will continue to cherry pick its best ideas. > > IMHO, the best thing that could happen is what Ted Husted tried to start a > couple of years ago: merge Stripes, Spring MVC and Struts 2. They're all so > similar it'd make things a lot easier. Maybe in the end the solution looks > like Stripes does now, but it'd at least eliminate the confusion. > > Matt > > > VANKEISBELCK Remi-2 wrote: > >> Hello Matt, >> >> No pun intended, but I don't understand the logic here... >> If you really feel Stripes is great, but suffers from >> "undermarketing", then why didn't you mention it in your blog ? >> >> Folks like you are probably our best way to market Stripes, being a >> well known blogger in the JEE space with established reputation... >> Us, poor anonymous coders, don't have such power when it comes to >> "spread the word". We can talk about Stripes in technical words, but >> we don't have thousands of decision makers listening to us. >> >> Stripes suffers under-marketing simply because it's been created by >> techies for techies, not by people who's job is to hijack each thread >> in every forum, just to sell their "shit". >> We, Stripes users and devs, have more interesting stuff to do : push >> what we think is the best MVC out there, and mof of all, use tools >> that make us more productive. We live by selling apps, not paperware >> or over-hyped articles. >> >> Last, I feel your comments "unfair" (once again no offense, just >> constructive criticism), as I don't think most of the frameworks you >> present in your blog entry are accepted as wide scale solutions in the >> IT industry (Grails, Wicket etc.). >> >> It's easy to surf the hype wave. RIA and other Ajax stuff have all >> eyes on them at the moment, so I guess blogging about them make many >> hits... What's more complex is to try to go the opposite way, defend >> principles you think are better, and resist the FUD. >> >> So, in the end, wasn't that blog entry a perfect place to talk about >> Stripes ? >> >> Cheers >> >> Remi >> >> On Nov 14, 2007 6:34 AM, mraible <matt@...> wrote: >> >>> I agree that Stripes is an excellent framework. However, I also believe >>> it >>> needs better marketing. It's virtually unknown because there aren't that >>> many articles, books or blogs posted about it. I've tried to sell it to >>> companies on my last two projects and it's often shunned because no one >>> has >>> heard of it. Also, there's no "poster child" application that proves it's >>> a >>> great framework for a large-scale deployment. >>> >>> I definitely like it and would prefer to use it when developing an >>> application that needs a request-based framework. However, it's been very >>> difficult to convince companies that it's a good idea. >>> >>> More and more, I'm seeing Spring MVC chosen by companies because they are >>> already using Spring in the middle-tier or backend. It's unfortunate, but >>> I >>> can also understand the justification behind it. >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> Gregg Bolinger-7 wrote: >>> >>>> I know Stripes is young but its really solid. However, it doesn't >>>> hardly get a blip on the "which framework" radar. I think this is >>>> primarily because it's not a component framework. (thanks God). >>>> Example, it was left off Matt Raible's latest blog entry: >>>> >>>> http://raibledesigns.com/rd/entry/comparing_web_frameworks_time_for >>>> >>>> I thought about leaving a comment but I don't really see the point. >>>> >>> I'm >>> >>>> content to keep using it regardless of mass appeal. I just hope that >>>> there are enough folks that feel the same way so that it keeps being >>>> developed. What I don't understand is why other developers think that >>>> convoluted monolithic beasts like Seam and Wicket are supperior? And >>>> what's up with GWT being on that list as a Web Framework? It's a >>>> >>> client >>> >>>> side rendering engine. Same with Flex and OpenLazslo. You can't >>>> develop anything without server side code which neither frameworks >>>> provide. Oh well. >>>> >>>> Gregg >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >>>> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >>>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. >>>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Stripes-users mailing list >>>> Stripes-users@... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://www.nabble.com/Stripes-Ignored...Again-tf4800043.html#a13740290 >>> Sent from the stripes-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >>> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. >>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stripes-users mailing list >>> Stripes-users@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. >> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Stripes-users mailing list >> Stripes-users@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by mraible
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To be fair, I have been including Stripes in my Comparing Web Frameworks talk at conferences for the last year. No one has heard of it, so they often dismiss it because of that. Wicket suffers the same treatment.
If you read the blog post, you'll notice that I wanted to "shake things up" a bit by broadening my horizons from the 3 request-based frameworks (Stripes, Struts 2 and Spring MVC) and 3 component-based frameworks (JSF, Tapestry and Wicket) to include some of the other ones that are getting a lot of buzz. My hope is in the future that I can have 10 frameworks in my back pocket, and I can ask the audience which ones they want compared. However, I think it'd be difficult to get them to include Stripes if they've never heard of it. Anyone want to write a book on Stripes? I have connections at Manning, O'Reilly and Apress. The question is - would they be interested in publishing a book on Stripes? Probably not if they don't think it'll sell. Again, there's the popularity problem. Matt
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by VANKEISBELCK Remi-2
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On Nov 14, 2007 3:54 PM, Gregg Bolinger <gdboling.stripes@...> wrote:
> >merge Stripes, Spring MVC and Struts 2. > Well, wouldn't that defeat the purpose and vision of what Stripes is? Well, here I agree with Matt : the 3 frameworks solve the same problem, we don't need such confusion ! And I also agree with Matt when he says the result of the merge would actually be... Stripes itself :-) Cheers Remi ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by Gregg Bolinger-7
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I've got similar contacts and have been pondering such an idea for a
while. I was going to speak with Tim, Ben, and some others about it to see if they would be interested. The only problem I see with a Stripes book is it would be 20 pages. I'm not sure there is enough to stripes for an entire book. It sounds bad when you say it but its glorious when you use it. ;) Gregg mraible wrote: > To be fair, I have been including Stripes in my Comparing Web Frameworks talk > at conferences for the last year. No one has heard of it, so they often > dismiss it because of that. Wicket suffers the same treatment. > > If you read the blog post, you'll notice that I wanted to "shake things up" > a bit by broadening my horizons from the 3 request-based frameworks > (Stripes, Struts 2 and Spring MVC) and 3 component-based frameworks (JSF, > Tapestry and Wicket) to include some of the other ones that are getting a > lot of buzz. > > My hope is in the future that I can have 10 frameworks in my back pocket, > and I can ask the audience which ones they want compared. However, I think > it'd be difficult to get them to include Stripes if they've never heard of > it. > > Anyone want to write a book on Stripes? I have connections at Manning, > O'Reilly and Apress. The question is - would they be interested in > publishing a book on Stripes? Probably not if they don't think it'll sell. > Again, there's the popularity problem. > > Matt > > > VANKEISBELCK Remi-2 wrote: > >> Hi again Matt, >> >> Stripes doesn't play the same category than Wicket, for sure. Wicket >> folks tend to be much more complicated... and noisy :-P >> (just kidding I like Wicket a lot too). >> >> Yes, we'd need more "advertisement" if we want more people to "get >> Striped". Unfortunately, that's how life usually goes : fud has more >> power than reason... >> >> That's precisly why I replied your initial email : I didn't really >> understand why you would not mention Stripes if you think it's a good >> choice for MVC webapps. >> It sounded to me like "hey, it's cool but nobody knows about it, so no >> need to mention it"... hence my disappointment !! Reading this in >> crappy papers for managers is not surprising... but I would have >> expected that the great Matt Raible was beyond hype ;-P >> >> I don't think we Stripers want to rule'em all. We've already made our >> choice, and despite the criticism (most often based on pure fud), we >> like Stripes cause it just makes our jobs more interesting, and more >> productive. I don't really care if it gets Apache or becomes JSR-XYZ, >> and customers/end-users care even less... Moreover, maybe it's so >> reactive because of the "human" size of the project. Of course, it's a >> pity when you read comparisons where Stripes isn't even represented, >> but we can live with that. >> On the other hand, we also need critical mass if we want the project >> to survive, but I feel that we've already reached that point. Stripes >> is simple, and doesn't try to address all problems. You don't need an >> armada of devs to maintain it. >> >> Anyway. We don't beg for any support. Once again it's your blog, you >> write whatever you think appropriate in there, and promote the >> frameworks of your choice, we're not trying to hijack by any mean. I >> personnally read your blog quite often and like it a lot, you make >> really good points. >> But if you really think Stripes is a good option, and wanna help a >> small but amazing, passionate community to become more sustainable, >> please just drop a word or two for us in your next post... >> >> Such small, simple things are like a smile : it doesn't cost you >> anything, but still you have ROI ! >> >> And I really think it would be fair on a "scientific" level, as >> Stripes deserves its place amongst the other frameworks you have >> pointed out... maybe not in mailing lists stats or google page rank, >> but at least technically ;-P >> >> Cheers >> >> Remi >> >> On Nov 14, 2007 2:31 PM, mraible <matt@...> wrote: >> >>> You guys sound a lot like the Wicket guys a couple of years ago. Back >>> then, >>> they had low mailing list traffic and no books written about it. That's >>> the >>> same situation you are in. Now they have high traffic (one of the highest >>> among Java web frameworks) and several books. In the past, they said both >>> weren't important and now they've changed their tune. >>> >>> Sure, I could help market Stripes more, but that's not my job since I >>> don't >>> use it everyday. Marketing is best done by users showing solutions and >>> how >>> it's better than other frameworks. I think Stripes is great, but it >>> doesn't >>> strike me as leaps and bounds above Struts 2 or Spring MVC. For those of >>> you >>> who think different, there needs to be articles and blog posts written >>> that >>> explain why it's so much better. >>> >>> Stripes needs a book written about it if it ever wants to become >>> mainstream. >>> That's simply how the Java world works. Of course, if it doesn't want to >>> become mainstream, then no further marketing needs to be done - and other >>> frameworks will continue to cherry pick its best ideas. >>> >>> IMHO, the best thing that could happen is what Ted Husted tried to start >>> a >>> couple of years ago: merge Stripes, Spring MVC and Struts 2. They're all >>> so >>> similar it'd make things a lot easier. Maybe in the end the solution >>> looks >>> like Stripes does now, but it'd at least eliminate the confusion. >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> >>> >>> VANKEISBELCK Remi-2 wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Matt, >>>> >>>> No pun intended, but I don't understand the logic here... >>>> If you really feel Stripes is great, but suffers from >>>> "undermarketing", then why didn't you mention it in your blog ? >>>> >>>> Folks like you are probably our best way to market Stripes, being a >>>> well known blogger in the JEE space with established reputation... >>>> Us, poor anonymous coders, don't have such power when it comes to >>>> "spread the word". We can talk about Stripes in technical words, but >>>> we don't have thousands of decision makers listening to us. >>>> >>>> Stripes suffers under-marketing simply because it's been created by >>>> techies for techies, not by people who's job is to hijack each thread >>>> in every forum, just to sell their "shit". >>>> We, Stripes users and devs, have more interesting stuff to do : push >>>> what we think is the best MVC out there, and mof of all, use tools >>>> that make us more productive. We live by selling apps, not paperware >>>> or over-hyped articles. >>>> >>>> Last, I feel your comments "unfair" (once again no offense, just >>>> constructive criticism), as I don't think most of the frameworks you >>>> present in your blog entry are accepted as wide scale solutions in the >>>> IT industry (Grails, Wicket etc.). >>>> >>>> It's easy to surf the hype wave. RIA and other Ajax stuff have all >>>> eyes on them at the moment, so I guess blogging about them make many >>>> hits... What's more complex is to try to go the opposite way, defend >>>> principles you think are better, and resist the FUD. >>>> >>>> So, in the end, wasn't that blog entry a perfect place to talk about >>>> Stripes ? >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> >>>> Remi >>>> >>>> On Nov 14, 2007 6:34 AM, mraible <matt@...> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I agree that Stripes is an excellent framework. However, I also >>>>> >>> believe >>> >>>>> it >>>>> needs better marketing. It's virtually unknown because there aren't >>>>> >>> that >>> >>>>> many articles, books or blogs posted about it. I've tried to sell it >>>>> >>> to >>> >>>>> companies on my last two projects and it's often shunned because no >>>>> >>> one >>> >>>>> has >>>>> heard of it. Also, there's no "poster child" application that proves >>>>> >>> it's >>> >>>>> a >>>>> great framework for a large-scale deployment. >>>>> >>>>> I definitely like it and would prefer to use it when developing an >>>>> application that needs a request-based framework. However, it's been >>>>> >>> very >>> >>>>> difficult to convince companies that it's a good idea. >>>>> >>>>> More and more, I'm seeing Spring MVC chosen by companies because they >>>>> >>> are >>> >>>>> already using Spring in the middle-tier or backend. It's unfortunate, >>>>> >>> but >>> >>>>> I >>>>> can also understand the justification behind it. >>>>> >>>>> Matt >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gregg Bolinger-7 wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I know Stripes is young but its really solid. However, it doesn't >>>>>> hardly get a blip on the "which framework" radar. I think this is >>>>>> primarily because it's not a component framework. (thanks God). >>>>>> Example, it was left off Matt Raible's latest blog entry: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://raibledesigns.com/rd/entry/comparing_web_frameworks_time_for >>>>>> >>>>>> I thought about leaving a comment but I don't really see the point. >>>>>> >>>>> I'm >>>>> >>>>>> content to keep using it regardless of mass appeal. I just hope >>>>>> >>> that >>> >>>>>> there are enough folks that feel the same way so that it keeps being >>>>>> developed. What I don't understand is why other developers think >>>>>> >>> that >>> >>>>>> convoluted monolithic beasts like Seam and Wicket are supperior? >>>>>> >>> And >>> >>>>>> what's up with GWT being on that list as a Web Framework? It's a >>>>>> >>>>> client >>>>> >>>>>> side rendering engine. Same with Flex and OpenLazslo. You can't >>>>>> develop anything without server side code which neither frameworks >>>>>> provide. Oh well. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gregg >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >>>>>> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >>>>>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a >>>>>> >>> browser. >>> >>>>>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Stripes-users mailing list >>>>>> Stripes-users@... >>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> View this message in context: >>>>> http://www.nabble.com/Stripes-Ignored...Again-tf4800043.html#a13740290 >>>>> Sent from the stripes-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >>>>> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >>>>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a >>>>> >>> browser. >>> >>>>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Stripes-users mailing list >>>>> Stripes-users@... >>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >>>> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >>>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. >>>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Stripes-users mailing list >>>> Stripes-users@... >>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://www.nabble.com/Stripes-Ignored...Again-tf4800043.html#a13746627 >>> >>> Sent from the stripes-users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >>> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. >>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stripes-users mailing list >>> Stripes-users@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. >> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Stripes-users mailing list >> Stripes-users@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by Gregg Bolinger-7
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So here's a blog title for you then:
Struts2 + Stripes MVC == Stripes. :) Gregg VANKEISBELCK Remi wrote: > On Nov 14, 2007 3:54 PM, Gregg Bolinger <gdboling.stripes@...> wrote: > >> >merge Stripes, Spring MVC and Struts 2. >> Well, wouldn't that defeat the purpose and vision of what Stripes is? >> > > Well, here I agree with Matt : the 3 frameworks solve the same > problem, we don't need such confusion ! > And I also agree with Matt when he says the result of the merge would > actually be... Stripes itself :-) > > Cheers > > Remi > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Stripes-users mailing list > Stripes-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by VANKEISBELCK Remi-2
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Actually, the accurate equation would be :
(Struts2 + Spring MVC) - OverkillPainfulStuff == Stripes. :-) Cheers Remi On Nov 14, 2007 4:19 PM, Gregg Bolinger <gdboling.stripes@...> wrote: > So here's a blog title for you then: > > Struts2 + Stripes MVC == Stripes. > :) > > Gregg > > > VANKEISBELCK Remi wrote: > > On Nov 14, 2007 3:54 PM, Gregg Bolinger <gdboling.stripes@...> wrote: > > > >> >merge Stripes, Spring MVC and Struts 2. > >> Well, wouldn't that defeat the purpose and vision of what Stripes is? > >> > > > > Well, here I agree with Matt : the 3 frameworks solve the same > > problem, we don't need such confusion ! > > And I also agree with Matt when he says the result of the merge would > > actually be... Stripes itself :-) > > > > Cheers > > > > Remi > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > > Stripes-users mailing list > > Stripes-users@... > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Stripes-users mailing list > Stripes-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by Gregg Bolinger-7
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PERFECT!!
VANKEISBELCK Remi wrote: > Actually, the accurate equation would be : > > (Struts2 + Spring MVC) - OverkillPainfulStuff == Stripes. > > :-) > > Cheers > > Remi > > On Nov 14, 2007 4:19 PM, Gregg Bolinger <gdboling.stripes@...> wrote: > >> So here's a blog title for you then: >> >> Struts2 + Stripes MVC == Stripes. >> :) >> >> Gregg >> >> >> VANKEISBELCK Remi wrote: >> >>> On Nov 14, 2007 3:54 PM, Gregg Bolinger <gdboling.stripes@...> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> >merge Stripes, Spring MVC and Struts 2. >>>> Well, wouldn't that defeat the purpose and vision of what Stripes is? >>>> >>>> >>> Well, here I agree with Matt : the 3 frameworks solve the same >>> problem, we don't need such confusion ! >>> And I also agree with Matt when he says the result of the merge would >>> actually be... Stripes itself :-) >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Remi >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >>> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >>> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. >>> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Stripes-users mailing list >>> Stripes-users@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. >> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Stripes-users mailing list >> Stripes-users@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Stripes-users mailing list > Stripes-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by W. Hartung
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On Nov 14, 2007, at 7:16 AM, Gregg Bolinger wrote: > I've got similar contacts and have been pondering such an idea for a > while. I was going to speak with Tim, Ben, and some others about > it to > see if they would be interested. The only problem I see with a > Stripes > book is it would be 20 pages. I'm not sure there is enough to stripes > for an entire book. It sounds bad when you say it but its glorious > when > you use it. ;) Oh, I think a book on Stripes would be quite good, and I think there can be a lot in it. Because I think the book can be not just on Stripes (which, despite its simplicity, it has a lot of depth, all of which has nuances that needs to be documented), but also as a benchmark for solid design, integrating a back end (DAO, JPA, Stripernate), Ajaxifying stripes (Like Remis ajax validation interceptor), plus the work of describing a solid "Bugzooky"...something that a) does something meaningful (really meaningful) and does the "hard" things that you never see in anything else. Like, say, a header/detail screen, a solid grid display (ajaxified even), etc. You want to bring folks to the platform, give them a really good sample application that does everything that folks need to do so they can copy and paste their way to glory. They'll start with the app and follow the patterns in the source code (and documented in the book) to get their projects going fast and yet still be lightweight. Folks don't want technology, they want solutions, both consumers and developers. Everything we KNOW that folks do EVERY DAY, we continue to reinvent because there are all these crappy examples on the net. A simple example, I'm here because Stripes painlessly binds and validates numbers and dates, something that is, apparently, impossible to do in Struts, or Spring MVC (at least at the time). And, with Struts, no way to easily bind lists. Obviously, that's an exageration, but none of the examples did any of this. Spring wanted me to install some converter, like Stripes does. But it's a DATE, who the heck doesn't use DATEs, why the heck isn't that in the default package and you have to become an instant expert in the framework to load a freakin' date. I've NEVER used the Type conversion feature of Stripes -- I just don't need it. So, that's what will make Stripes popular. Solve the common cases for people, through technology and examples. Give folks a leg up. Give them a solution. Regards, Will Hartung ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by Lukáš Vlček
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Hi,
I have been using Stripes for more then two years now and I am really happy about it. I made presentation to our globally distributed team more then year ago and the result is that they are starting using it in our company now in other development teams as well. Saying this I really think that Stripes book will be useful and good investment! In spite of the fact the core technology can be described on 20 pages I don't think this is what people are interested in. As Will said people are more interested in solutions which gives Stripes an unique change to shine because integration with Spring, Hibernate, Acegi, AJAX is easy possible and real examples would catch attention. I think that Stripes book full of examples and best practices is worth investment. I would think about this book not only as a Stripes show but also as a perfect introduction to web app development for newbies in Java. Or do you know a better framework for newbie to start with? Regards, Lukas On Nov 14, 2007 4:57 PM, Will Hartung <redrocks@...> wrote:
-- http://blog.lukas-vlcek.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by Alan Burlison
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Will Hartung wrote:
> integrating a back end (DAO, JPA, Stripernate), Ajaxifying stripes > (Like Remis ajax validation interceptor), plus the work of describing > a solid "Bugzooky"...something that a) does something meaningful > (really meaningful) and does the "hard" things that you never see in > anything else. Like, say, a header/detail screen, a solid grid > display (ajaxified even), etc. I'm using Stripes to reimplement the user management application for OpenSolaris (http://opensolaris.org). The source is all online at http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/website/auth/trunk/, and the application itself can be found at http://auth.opensolaris.org/. This isn't by any means finished, and I'm not claiming it is a model application as it's my first Stripes app, but it is a reasonably-sized example. -- Alan Burlison -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by Jason Sibre
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Hear hear...
I'd love something that went into greater depth. I'm here because I'm looking for something in Java that does for me what Quixote did for me in Python, and while it's not an exact fit, it seems to fit many of the broad strokes. It even has many additional powerful features that Qx lacked (back when I was active with it - it may have evolved since then). However, I'm having a hard time ramping up, because the example apps provided are not only trivial, but, well... not exactly a showcase of best practice in Stripes. The how-to's are where the real docs are for Stripes, and they're a bit light, too. A book for Stripes would be fantastic, and I'd even consider contributing/authoring, assuming I ever get to a level with it where I'd be able to do so in a meaningful way. ;) Jason On Nov 14, 2007, at 9:57 AM, Will Hartung wrote: > > On Nov 14, 2007, at 7:16 AM, Gregg Bolinger wrote: > >> I've got similar contacts and have been pondering such an idea for a >> while. I was going to speak with Tim, Ben, and some others about >> it to >> see if they would be interested. The only problem I see with a >> Stripes >> book is it would be 20 pages. I'm not sure there is enough to >> stripes >> for an entire book. It sounds bad when you say it but its glorious >> when >> you use it. ;) > > Oh, I think a book on Stripes would be quite good, and I think there > can be a lot in it. > > Because I think the book can be not just on Stripes (which, despite > its simplicity, it has a lot of depth, all of which has nuances that > needs to be documented), but also as a benchmark for solid design, > integrating a back end (DAO, JPA, Stripernate), Ajaxifying stripes > (Like Remis ajax validation interceptor), plus the work of describing > a solid "Bugzooky"...something that a) does something meaningful > (really meaningful) and does the "hard" things that you never see in > anything else. Like, say, a header/detail screen, a solid grid > display (ajaxified even), etc. > > You want to bring folks to the platform, give them a really good > sample application that does everything that folks need to do so they > can copy and paste their way to glory. They'll start with the app and > follow the patterns in the source code (and documented in the book) > to get their projects going fast and yet still be lightweight. > > Folks don't want technology, they want solutions, both consumers and > developers. Everything we KNOW that folks do EVERY DAY, we continue > to reinvent because there are all these crappy examples on the net. > > A simple example, I'm here because Stripes painlessly binds and > validates numbers and dates, something that is, apparently, > impossible to do in Struts, or Spring MVC (at least at the time). > And, with Struts, no way to easily bind lists. > > Obviously, that's an exageration, but none of the examples did any of > this. Spring wanted me to install some converter, like Stripes does. > But it's a DATE, who the heck doesn't use DATEs, why the heck isn't > that in the default package and you have to become an instant expert > in the framework to load a freakin' date. > > I've NEVER used the Type conversion feature of Stripes -- I just > don't need it. > > So, that's what will make Stripes popular. Solve the common cases for > people, through technology and examples. Give folks a leg up. Give > them a solution. > > Regards, > > Will Hartung > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a > browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Stripes-users mailing list > Stripes-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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Re: Stripes Ignored...Again
by Gregg Bolinger-7
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Would it make more sense to write something that was like:
*Java Web Development with Stripes, [API here], and [API here].* rather than *Stripes in Action (Manning) or Beginning Stripes (APress)* Gregg Jason Sibre wrote: > Hear hear... > > I'd love something that went into greater depth. I'm here because I'm > looking for something in Java that does for me what Quixote did for me > in Python, and while it's not an exact fit, it seems to fit many of > the broad strokes. It even has many additional powerful features that > Qx lacked (back when I was active with it - it may have evolved since > then). However, I'm having a hard time ramping up, because the > example apps provided are not only trivial, but, well... not exactly a > showcase of best practice in Stripes. The how-to's are where the real > docs are for Stripes, and they're a bit light, too. > > A book for Stripes would be fantastic, and I'd even consider > contributing/authoring, assuming I ever get to a level with it where > I'd be able to do so in a meaningful way. ;) > > Jason > > > On Nov 14, 2007, at 9:57 AM, Will Hartung wrote: > > >> On Nov 14, 2007, at 7:16 AM, Gregg Bolinger wrote: >> >> >>> I've got similar contacts and have been pondering such an idea for a >>> while. I was going to speak with Tim, Ben, and some others about >>> it to >>> see if they would be interested. The only problem I see with a >>> Stripes >>> book is it would be 20 pages. I'm not sure there is enough to >>> stripes >>> for an entire book. It sounds bad when you say it but its glorious >>> when >>> you use it. ;) >>> >> Oh, I think a book on Stripes would be quite good, and I think there >> can be a lot in it. >> >> Because I think the book can be not just on Stripes (which, despite >> its simplicity, it has a lot of depth, all of which has nuances that >> needs to be documented), but also as a benchmark for solid design, >> integrating a back end (DAO, JPA, Stripernate), Ajaxifying stripes >> (Like Remis ajax validation interceptor), plus the work of describing >> a solid "Bugzooky"...something that a) does something meaningful >> (really meaningful) and does the "hard" things that you never see in >> anything else. Like, say, a header/detail screen, a solid grid >> display (ajaxified even), etc. >> >> You want to bring folks to the platform, give them a really good >> sample application that does everything that folks need to do so they >> can copy and paste their way to glory. They'll start with the app and >> follow the patterns in the source code (and documented in the book) >> to get their projects going fast and yet still be lightweight. >> >> Folks don't want technology, they want solutions, both consumers and >> developers. Everything we KNOW that folks do EVERY DAY, we continue >> to reinvent because there are all these crappy examples on the net. >> >> A simple example, I'm here because Stripes painlessly binds and >> validates numbers and dates, something that is, apparently, >> impossible to do in Struts, or Spring MVC (at least at the time). >> And, with Struts, no way to easily bind lists. >> >> Obviously, that's an exageration, but none of the examples did any of >> this. Spring wanted me to install some converter, like Stripes does. >> But it's a DATE, who the heck doesn't use DATEs, why the heck isn't >> that in the default package and you have to become an instant expert >> in the framework to load a freakin' date. >> >> I've NEVER used the Type conversion feature of Stripes -- I just >> don't need it. >> >> So, that's what will make Stripes popular. Solve the common cases for >> people, through technology and examples. Give folks a leg up. Give >> them a solution. >> >> Regards, >> >> Will Hartung >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. >> Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. >> Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a >> browser. >> Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Stripes-users mailing list >> Stripes-users@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. > Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. > Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. > Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Stripes-users mailing list > Stripes-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now >> http://get.splunk.com/ _______________________________________________ Stripes-users mailing list Stripes-users@... https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/stripes-users |
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