Stupid sysadmin question

[Jerry Feldman-2]

Some of my users want to be able to access our servers directly from
Exceed. I'm not overly concerned about security since we are locked down
under a VPN. I need Exceed to be able to use ssh, but it looks like the
options are to use either rsh or rexec. Our servers are all using RHEL 5.2.
I am not concerned about any security issues that would arise.
(IMHO - hate exceed but but this is for some coworkers).

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
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[David Hummel-2]

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:
> Some of my users want to be able to access our servers directly from
> Exceed.

Would it be a stretch to suggest to your users to use Cygwin/X
instead?  There should be no issues with ssh connectivity there...
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[bostonlinuxandunix]

When I provision laptops for my coworkers, I include both PuTTY
and Mocha X11.

    http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/

    http://www.mochasoft.org/freeware/x11.htm

Mocha X11 runs in the system tray on XP, and provides a rootless
X11 server, so X clients act like regular Win32 windows. PuTTY
is an ssh client, and if you enable its X11 settings, it finds and uses
the Mocha X11 server transparently.

I haven't checked if it supports fancy features like XDMCP, so maybe
there are features that Exceed provides that Mocha and PuTTY don't.

But I'd suggest trying Mocha first, before fighting to make Exceed use
ssh. Last time I tried to get Excheed working with ssh, it was a major
pain in the posterior. Although that was almost 10 years ago...



On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:

> Some of my users want to be able to access our servers directly from
> Exceed. I'm not overly concerned about security since we are locked down
> under a VPN. I need Exceed to be able to use ssh, but it looks like the
> options are to use either rsh or rexec. Our servers are all using RHEL 5.2.
> I am not concerned about any security issues that would arise.
> (IMHO - hate exceed but but this is for some coworkers).
>
> --
> Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
> Boston Linux and Unix
> PGP key id: 537C5846
> PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB  CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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[Jerry Feldman-2]

On 11/04/2009 03:13 PM, David Hummel wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:
>  
>> Some of my users want to be able to access our servers directly from
>> Exceed.
>>    
> Would it be a stretch to suggest to your users to use Cygwin/X
> instead?  There should be no issues with ssh connectivity there...
>
>  
They currently use putty to connect via ssh, and exceed provides the X
services. The issue is very specific, the user wants to set up an icon
on his desktop so he can click it and log in directly through Exceed.
Additionally, IT installs software on most of the laptops.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB  CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846



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[Gordon Marx]

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:
> They currently use putty to connect via ssh, and exceed provides the X
> services. The issue is very specific, the user wants to set up an icon
> on his desktop so he can click it and log in directly through Exceed.
> Additionally, IT installs software on most of the laptops.

Are you talking about having Exceed display a window manager, or are
you talking about having Exceed running rootless and having, for
example, xterm windows as top-level Windows windows?

Gordon
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[Jerry Feldman-2]

Basically, let me be more specific. As I mentioned in my previous post,
Putty works fine for our purposes, and our IT department either in New
York or Toronto provision the laptops. If it were my decision, I would
have Linux on the laptops. The issue is simple:
The user wants to be able to set up an icon on the desktop and use
exceed to connect using one of its protocols. Since we are in a
reasonably secure VPN environment, what would work best is if I were to
enable either an rlogin, rsh, or rexec daemon on one or some of our RHEL
5.2 servers. We set it up once on one of our servers, but I think it was
running RHEL 4 at the time. (It also might be that I didn't install
those daemons when I installed RHEL5.2, but I have not checked the media
yet).

On 11/04/2009 03:15 PM, John Abreau wrote:

> When I provision laptops for my coworkers, I include both PuTTY
> and Mocha X11.
>
>     http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/
>
>     http://www.mochasoft.org/freeware/x11.htm
>
> Mocha X11 runs in the system tray on XP, and provides a rootless
> X11 server, so X clients act like regular Win32 windows. PuTTY
> is an ssh client, and if you enable its X11 settings, it finds and uses
> the Mocha X11 server transparently.
>
> I haven't checked if it supports fancy features like XDMCP, so maybe
> there are features that Exceed provides that Mocha and PuTTY don't.
>
> But I'd suggest trying Mocha first, before fighting to make Exceed use
> ssh. Last time I tried to get Excheed working with ssh, it was a major
> pain in the posterior. Although that was almost 10 years ago...
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:
>  
>> Some of my users want to be able to access our servers directly from
>> Exceed. I'm not overly concerned about security since we are locked down
>> under a VPN. I need Exceed to be able to use ssh, but it looks like the
>> options are to use either rsh or rexec. Our servers are all using RHEL 5.2.
>> I am not concerned about any security issues that would arise.
>> (IMHO - hate exceed but but this is for some coworkers).
>>
>>    
>
>
>  

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB  CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846



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[Mark Hertel-4]

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:

> On 11/04/2009 03:13 PM, David Hummel wrote:
> > On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:
> >
> >> Some of my users want to be able to access our servers directly from
> >> Exceed.
> >>
> > Would it be a stretch to suggest to your users to use Cygwin/X
> > instead?  There should be no issues with ssh connectivity there...
> >
> >
> They currently use putty to connect via ssh, and exceed provides the X
> services. The issue is very specific, the user wants to set up an icon
> on his desktop so he can click it and log in directly through Exceed.
> Additionally, IT installs software on most of the laptops.
>
> I think you can do that with Xstart and use the Xsession executable to

launch the script. The ssh protocol might be an extra cost add-in for
Exceed.


--Mark
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[Jerry Feldman-2]

Install the f--ing software, I didn't have the software installed, duh! :-)

On 11/04/2009 04:28 PM, Jerry Feldman wrote:

> Basically, let me be more specific. As I mentioned in my previous post,
> Putty works fine for our purposes, and our IT department either in New
> York or Toronto provision the laptops. If it were my decision, I would
> have Linux on the laptops. The issue is simple:
> The user wants to be able to set up an icon on the desktop and use
> exceed to connect using one of its protocols. Since we are in a
> reasonably secure VPN environment, what would work best is if I were to
> enable either an rlogin, rsh, or rexec daemon on one or some of our RHEL
> 5.2 servers. We set it up once on one of our servers, but I think it was
> running RHEL 4 at the time. (It also might be that I didn't install
> those daemons when I installed RHEL5.2, but I have not checked the media
> yet).
>
> On 11/04/2009 03:15 PM, John Abreau wrote:
>  
>> When I provision laptops for my coworkers, I include both PuTTY
>> and Mocha X11.
>>
>>     http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/
>>
>>     http://www.mochasoft.org/freeware/x11.htm
>>
>> Mocha X11 runs in the system tray on XP, and provides a rootless
>> X11 server, so X clients act like regular Win32 windows. PuTTY
>> is an ssh client, and if you enable its X11 settings, it finds and uses
>> the Mocha X11 server transparently.
>>
>> I haven't checked if it supports fancy features like XDMCP, so maybe
>> there are features that Exceed provides that Mocha and PuTTY don't.
>>
>> But I'd suggest trying Mocha first, before fighting to make Exceed use
>> ssh. Last time I tried to get Excheed working with ssh, it was a major
>> pain in the posterior. Although that was almost 10 years ago...
>>
>>    

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB  CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846



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[John Abreau-18]

This is trivially easy with putty and Mocha X11. Configure Mocha to
start on login.  Configure a session in putty and save it with an
appropriate name. Create a shortcut to putty on the desktop, and
edit its properties to launch the named session when double-clicked.

In the shortcut properties:

    "C:\Program Files\PuTTY\putty.exe" -load "named session"



On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:

> On 11/04/2009 03:13 PM, David Hummel wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:
>>
>>> Some of my users want to be able to access our servers directly from
>>> Exceed.
>>>
>> Would it be a stretch to suggest to your users to use Cygwin/X
>> instead?  There should be no issues with ssh connectivity there...
>>
>>
> They currently use putty to connect via ssh, and exceed provides the X
> services. The issue is very specific, the user wants to set up an icon
> on his desktop so he can click it and log in directly through Exceed.
> Additionally, IT installs software on most of the laptops.
>
> --
> Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
> Boston Linux and Unix
> PGP key id: 537C5846
> PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB  CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
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>
>

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[Bill Ricker-3]

On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:

> Some of my users want to be able to access our servers directly from
> Exceed. I'm not overly concerned about security since we are locked down
> under a VPN. I need Exceed to be able to use ssh, but it looks like the
> options are to use either rsh or rexec.
>

Ssh is an add-on option from eXceed. Worked nice for us back when, but I'm
mostly using PuTTY at $dayjob these days, don't need much X based apps.

rsh and rexec must die. rsh and rexec should be scary even if THESE users
are VPN tunneled, as then you have to be very careful to prevent rsh+ from
accepting connxns from non-VPN. ever. easiest is uninstall ...

--
Bill
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[Jerry Feldman-2]

I would agree with you. To put this into context, the guy who wants this
feature is a PHD financial engineer who also likes to try to read and
understand C++ and Python code.

As I mentioned, the reason I was having trouble is that rsh/rexec/rlogin
were not installed. I did install them on one server. Now, when I run
exceed (eg xstart) it pops up a dialog box with "Where are you".
Note that I do have these configured into xinetd on that system.
Basically, what I want to do now is twofold:
First, get this working just as an exercise before I deinstall them.
Secondly find out if I can get the SSH upgrade installed on his system
(I have to contact our IT guys in NY, but if they have it, they will
install it).

It is also a political problem since we have a lab up in Toronto where
they have both Solaris and Linux set up with rsh, rlogin, rexec. But,
for anyone to get access to those systems they have to connect through
Citrix. Here, anyone who can sneak into our office or into the computer
room can access our VPN. So, I have to convince them that rsh is a bad
thing.

On 11/05/2009 08:16 AM, Bill Ricker wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...
> <mailto:gaf@...>> wrote:
>
>     Some of my users want to be able to access our servers directly from
>     Exceed. I'm not overly concerned about security since we are
>     locked down
>     under a VPN. I need Exceed to be able to use ssh, but it looks
>     like the
>     options are to use either rsh or rexec.
>
>
> Ssh is an add-on option from eXceed. Worked nice for us back when, but
> I'm mostly using PuTTY at $dayjob these days, don't need much X based
> apps.
>
> rsh and rexec must die. rsh and rexec should be scary even if THESE
> users are VPN tunneled, as then you have to be very careful to prevent
> rsh+ from accepting connxns from non-VPN. ever. easiest is uninstall ...
>

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB  CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846



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[Jerry Feldman-2]

I will install Mocha on my laptop and see how that works.  Since we all
have admin privs on our laptops, if mocha appears to be a viable
alternative, I can get Andrew to install it on his, or possibly have IT
install it.

On 11/04/2009 06:33 PM, John Abreau wrote:

> This is trivially easy with putty and Mocha X11. Configure Mocha to
> start on login.  Configure a session in putty and save it with an
> appropriate name. Create a shortcut to putty on the desktop, and
> edit its properties to launch the named session when double-clicked.
>
> In the shortcut properties:
>
>     "C:\Program Files\PuTTY\putty.exe" -load "named session"
>
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:
>  
>> On 11/04/2009 03:13 PM, David Hummel wrote:
>>    
>>> On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 3:01 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>> Some of my users want to be able to access our servers directly from
>>>> Exceed.
>>>>
>>>>        
>>> Would it be a stretch to suggest to your users to use Cygwin/X
>>> instead?  There should be no issues with ssh connectivity there...
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>> They currently use putty to connect via ssh, and exceed provides the X
>> services. The issue is very specific, the user wants to set up an icon
>> on his desktop so he can click it and log in directly through Exceed.
>> Additionally, IT installs software on most of the laptops.
>>
>>    
>
>
>  

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
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[Richard Pieri]

On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:27 AM, Jerry Feldman wrote:
I would agree with you. To put this into context, the guy who wants this
> As I mentioned, the reason I was having trouble is that rsh/rexec/
> rlogin
> were not installed. I did install them on one server. Now, when I run

Yep.  Most recent Linux distributions do not include the telnet and  
rsh servers as part of their standard installations.  If you need them  
(and you should ask yourself if you really do need them) then you have  
to install them manually.

--Rich P.

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[mateus-3]

/// I would agree with you. To put this into context, the guy who  
wants this feature is a PHD financial engineer who also likes to try  
to read and understand C++ and Python code. ///

I work with C++ and Python too, but have known for years that rlogin  
is unsecure. It's basically been deprecated informally.


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:27, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:

> I would agree with you. To put this into context, the guy who wants  
> this
> feature is a PHD financial engineer who also likes to try to read and
> understand C++ and Python code.
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[Jerry Feldman-2]

Essentially, I've known about problems with RSH/REXEC/RLOGIN for well
over 10 years which is why I only installed them on one system
temporarily. Our IT guy in NY was able to log in to that system
successfully from Exceed 2007, so it appears to be an older Exceed
issue. What I need to do is find out exactly what this guy wants to do
and determine the best way to accommodate him (either via Exceed or
Xming or Mocha). He's not in today, but I think what he wants to do is
to be able to load our product directly. So instead of loading a shell,
what he wants is an icon to our product. In any case he is out of the
office for a day or so.

On 11/05/2009 12:17 PM, M. Page-Lieberman wrote:

> /// I would agree with you. To put this into context, the guy who
> wants this feature is a PHD financial engineer who also likes to try
> to read and understand C++ and Python code. ///
>
> I work with C++ and Python too, but have known for years that rlogin
> is unsecure. It's basically been deprecated informally.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 5, 2009, at 9:27, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...
> <mailto:gaf@...>> wrote:
>
>> I would agree with you. To put this into context, the guy who wants this
>> feature is a PHD financial engineer who also likes to try to read and
>> understand C++ and Python code.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB  CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846



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[Bill Ricker-3]

On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 12:53 PM, Jerry Feldman <gaf@...> wrote:
> Our IT guy in NY was able to log in to that system
> successfully from Exceed 2007, so it appears to be an older Exceed
> issue.

we had to buy the ssh add-on to eXceed when we decommed rexec / rsh / rlogin.
not sure if they've bundled it since.

if the user needs Unix based X graphics app to appear on MSWindows
desktop, eXceed with Ssh upgrade or Cygwin are the usual options. We
used it for Xemacs and Mozilla to read local-filesystem html help
files on AIX, and the occasional X-based installer/config program.


This particularly savvy user you mention might appreciate Cygwin, but
it's not for general population.

--
Bill
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[Jerry Feldman-2]

On 11/05/2009 11:17 PM, Bill Ricker wrote:

> we had to buy the ssh add-on to eXceed when we decommed rexec / rsh / rlogin.
> not sure if they've bundled it since.
>
> if the user needs Unix based X graphics app to appear on MSWindows
> desktop, eXceed with Ssh upgrade or Cygwin are the usual options. We
> used it for Xemacs and Mozilla to read local-filesystem html help
> files on AIX, and the occasional X-based installer/config program.
>
>
> This particularly savvy user you mention might appreciate Cygwin, but
> it's not for general population.
>
>  

Actually, he is not too savvy. Basicaslly, just setting up putty icons

will work for him if he first runs exceed, which he can do at startup.
I'm sure exceed does not bundle the ssh extension. 2 people in my office
have Exceed 2007. In any case, when he returns from his conference
either today or Monday we'll see if the putty solution works for him. If
it doesn't, I'll look into Mocha or Xming to see which of the two meet
our needs.

On a technical basis, exceed works with rlogin, but with rexec we get a
dialog box "where are you". One of my coworkers encountered that a few
years ago, when we were running RHEL 4, and through some googling she
found the solution. I'd like to look for a solution just to file away,
but I will be removing thr RSH/REXEC/RLOGIN suite from the one server
shortly.

--
Jerry Feldman <gaf@...>
Boston Linux and Unix
PGP key id: 537C5846
PGP Key fingerprint: 3D1B 8377 A3C0 A5F2 ECBB  CA3B 4607 4319 537C 5846



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