Sun begins to fund JVM scripting languages

[tugwilson]

On 11 Sep 2006, at 09:54, glaforge wrote:

> Feel free to create such a page on the wiki directly.
> Does it have to be some PayPal system, or something like that?
> I don't know anything about that.


Please don't rush into this.

Soliciting money from the public is really not that easy. Who does  
the money go to? You, me, some legal entity? What's the position on  
tax if it goes to an individual?

I have helped set up a couple of not for profit companies in the uK  
and it's not cheap.

Codehaus is a not for profit foundation which is properly  
incorporated in the USA, perhaps they can receive money on behalf of  
Groovy?

Just for the record I'm really not sure that any of this is a good  
idea. Injecting money into a project which has, up to that point,  
been run by volunteers significantly changes the dynamics of the  
project.



John Wilson
The Wilson Partnership
web http://www.wilson.co.uk
blog http://eek.ook.org



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[glaforge]

The Codehaus is now a not-for-profit organisation.
So they could take care of this for us.

Russel Winder wrote:

On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 09:53 +0200, Jochen Theodorou wrote:

> Professional means paid. That must be said. but then I agree to 100%...
> maybe we should speak with the apache people?

In order to do this we need a not-for-profit / charitable foundation
with proper independent legal status.

My prejudice here is that whilst it might be easier for Guillaume,
Dierk, John, yourself, myself and whoever wants to be involved to
organize this as a French, German, Swiss or UK organization, the
pragmatics of the way money flows in computing and IT is that it
probably ought to be a USA organization.  This means finding a US lawyer
and accountant to act appropriately to set up a foundation with
appropriate constitution and rules.  Not to mention bank account.

I suspect the Gnome Foundation is a bad model as Gnome is so big.  The
Python Software Foundation on the other hand may be a good model.
 
--
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                [phone]
41 Buckmaster Road              [phone]
London SW11 1EN, UK             [e-mail]

[Dave Lin]

Let me try what I can do for contact with IBM for Groovy.

Dave Lin

[Tom Nichols]

On 9/11/06, Dave Lin <ddmanlin@...> wrote:
> Let me try what I can do for contact with IBM for Groovy.

Awesome.  Regardless of when 1.0 is released -- some commercial
backing would be phenominal.  *crosses fingers*

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[Russel Winder]

On Mon, 2006-09-11 at 02:37 -0700, glaforge wrote:
> The Codehaus is now a not-for-profit organisation.
> So they could take care of this for us.

If they would be prepared to do this, then that would be a good route.
Codehaus could set up an operating sub-unit "The Groovy Foundation"
which could then have a separate identity but associated with Codehaus
(as it is now).  There would then be a focus for all the IP and monies.

--
Russel.
====================================================
Dr Russel Winder                [phone]
41 Buckmaster Road              [phone]
London SW11 1EN, UK             russel@...

[Russel Winder]

On Fri, 2006-09-08 at 22:06 +0200, Guillaume Laforge wrote:

> I know a few guys from IBM, but none that are influential in any way :-(

What about Oracle?

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Russel.
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[Yellek]

One suggestion rather than using a wiki page would be to use Chip In (https://www.chipin.com/) to collect the money. If you have a bank account or Paypal account they will deliver the money once you reach a specific target figure and no-one gets charged unless the target is reached. All of the governance issues would need to be sorted out first though.

Peter Kelley

Michael Baehr wrote:

In the first place, I see my offer as a signal for others to come forward.

To be honest, I don't really expect that to happen - this is why I called it
a "wild idea" in the first place.

Regarding the wiki page - I would prefer it to be a page maintained by the
Groovy team - not writable for the public - to avoid abuse.

Also I'm not sure whether we should include real names on a page like that -
personally I'm not doing that in order to get publicity.

Michael

On 9/11/06, glaforge <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>
> Feel free to create such a page on the wiki directly.
> Does it have to be some PayPal system, or something like that?
> I don't know anything about that.
>

[Chorg Heavy Industries]

Again, we dont have to worry.  Consider: 

Who told you about Rails?  Was it not a developer?
Who told you about Python? Was it not a developer?
Why does Sun want to make scripting languages available?  Is it not to attract developers?

The american protectionism argument works well if it's wheat or (grrrrrr) softwood ( Damn right, I'm canadian!)
But developers dont care at all, Ruby is a Japanese thing , or was at the start. 

We make groovy good, and then prove it, by writing some nifty apps and 'they' will come with pockets full of cash and California ( wait who am i kidding, they'll send Ohio girls for programmers ) hussies to sweep you all to glory!

Like in football, or basketball, or business... focus on our product.  I dont think they can compete.

Ruby programmers wont switch to java because of JRuby.  Why would they? If they look for libraries, they have the whole C/C++ world to choose from.  However, Java programmers I think would try JRuby, but Groovy is better suited for that crowd.  As for those of use who use neither... comes down to how good it is to develop in. 
That's it. The end.  Let them hype it up all they want.  I am convinced Groovy is the better product.