Nabble - Supercollider - User (old)

Re: [sc-dev] Attention Nabble Users and Digest Fans, new forums!!!!

2009-04-26T05:41:47Z

Okay, as soon as this message is received the old Nabble forums will be unsubscribed. Long live the new ones...

On 23 Apr 2009, at 15:02, Scott Wilson wrote:

Dear Nabblers and those suffering from inDigestion,

Although a popular way to view the lists, Nabble has proven to be extremely problematic, in that the admins seem to be incapable of either correctly updating the list information or giving me the power to do so. Because of this users are still given incorrect list options and posting/subscription control, which means that I have to deal with numerous (sometimes 20 or more) nabble related bounces every day.

In the absence of a decent alternative solution I have decided to work around the problem by creating new forums for sc-users and sc-dev on Nabble 2. These have the correct info, etc., and will also allow for **real email digest delivery**. :-) See here:

http://n2.nabble.com/New-SuperCollider-Mailing-Lists-Forums-(Use-These!!!)-f2681727.html

Please stop using the existing Nabble 1 forums immediately, and start using the new ones. As noted on the info page, you will need to subscribe to sc-users-acl or sc-dev-acl in order to post from these forums.

Providing there are no issues with this, in a few days I will unsubscribe the old forums, and ask (hope springs eternal) the Nabble admins to make them read-only.

Your cheerful list admin,

Scott

Re: Help browser > [[Collections]] > Post ?

2009-04-26T05:20:50Z

Yes, you're right. But where?

2009/4/25, Andrzej Kopeć <akopec@...>:

> Shouldn't be 'Post' help file elsewhere?
>
> [sc3.3rc3]
>
> ak
>
> _______________________________________________
> sc-users mailing list
>
> info (subscription, etc.):
> http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/sc_mailing_lists.shtml
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>

--
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Re: symposium thought

2009-04-26T03:39:19Z

I wish I could have gone. Next year in Berlin!

2009/4/14 Sam Pluta <spluta@...>

hey all,

i just wanted to write a quick note about the symposium this past weekend. i said this to a couple of people, but what impressed me most about this gathering was how wonderfully different everyone's work was. nothing presented was at all similar to anything else - with people doing everything from live coding to installations to interface driven performance to live manipulation - and this is a sign that we are on to something as a group.

thanks for that,
i had a great time,

sam

www.wetink.org
www.sampluta.com
www.carrierrecords.com
myspace.com/glissandobinladen

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Re: Code LiveCode Live - Greyhound edition

2009-04-26T02:40:52Z

hey, very nice!
Is there a less compressed version?
I would like use it as an example to show what is live coding.

Cheers

Lucas

El 22/04/2009, a las 00:59, nescivi escribió:

Hiho,

I forgot to RecordMyDesktop the actual live code gig I did during the SC
Symposium, but I do have one of a rehearsal I did on my way to New York from
Montreal, on the Greyhound bus.

You can find it at (top link, right-click and save)
http://www.nescivi.nl/wordpress/?page_id=87

Greyhound edition (love those power sockets in the new buses!) with
inspirational looks at the landscape sliding by.

sincerely,
Marije

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SoundFile cue blocks sc

2009-04-26T02:15:00Z

hey on my computer (current svn and linux (ubuntustudio)) Soundfile cue
method leads to a SCLang process which is blocking my computer (nearly)
completely.
does anyone has the same problem?

f = SoundFile.new;
f.openRead("sounds/a11wlk01.wav");
f.cue

thanks
olaf

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Re: Symbolic Notations - Geometry operator @ - bug?

2009-04-26T02:01:03Z

Hey! Thanks James & Alberto (nice hearing from you again :-) btw)

ok, I'm sorry that stupid question. I've used this almos always with
(0@0) @ (w@h) and looked ok, but ofcourse, beacuse of the first
coordinates... so I thought it was like building a Rect. Well, sorry
again, my error, and thanks Alberto for the "corner @ (corner +
width)". :-)

bye

-juan

On 26.04.2009, at 10:28, Alberto de Campo wrote:

> hey juan,
>
> you can simply do
>
> var corner = (100 @ 200);
> var width = (300@400);
> corner @ (corner + width); // Rect(100, 200, 300, 400)
>
> best, adc
>
>
>> No, not a bug. The printout from Rect displays, in order, left,
>> top, width, height. When you make a Rect from two Points, the
>> specification is (x1, y1) @ (x2, y2) where x1 and x2 represent left
>> and right (or vice versa), and y1 and y2 are the top and bottom
>> coordinates. The Rect should show
>>
>> (min(x1, x2), min(y1, y2), abs(x1 - x2), abs(y1 - y2))
>>
>> ... which is exactly what you see.
>>
>> In other words, it looks like you expect the second Point to be the
>> width and height, but they are the real coordinates.
>> hjh
>>
>> On Apr 25, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Juan Gabriel Alzate Romero wrote:
>>
>>> Hello List,
>>>
>>> I read the Symbolic Notations help file and I liked the way to
>>> describe a Rect() by making 2 Points with ( x @ y ) "shortcut"
>>> I'm having a little trouble with it know, you see, I have this 2
>>> lines and they should give the same result:
>>>
>>> Window( "a Window @@@", (500 @ 500) @ (640 @ 480) ).front;
>>> Window( "a Window Rect()", Rect(500, 500, 640, 480) ).front;
>>>
>>> When I check just this:
>>>
>>> (500 @ 500) @ (640 @ 480)
>>>
>>> It returns
>>>
>>> Rect(500, 480, 140, 20)
>>>
>>> Which is tottally different than expected. But executing each
>>> Point separated gives the right result... i.e. this two lines:
>>>
>>> (500 @ 500)
>>> (640 @ 480)
>>>
>>> gives me:
>>>
>>> Point( 500, 500 )
>>> Point( 640, 480 )
>>>
>>> Which is ok. But yet again this:
>>>
>>> Point( 500, 500 ) @ Point( 640, 480 )
>>>
>>> will return
>>>
>>> Rect(500, 480, 140, 20)
>>>
>>> false again.... Is this a kind of bug? If it's only me who's
>>> having this trouble? I can send screenshots if needed.
>>> I'm using RC3, but tested it on RC1 and even 3.2 with the same
>>> results.
>>> Ah yeah... and I'm on an intel machine with leo.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance
>>>
>>
>>
>> : H. James Harkins
>> : <mailto:jamshark70@...>jamshark70@...
>> : <http://www.dewdrop-world.net>http://www.dewdrop-world.net
>> .::!:.:.......:.::........:..!.::.::...:..:...:.:.:.:..:
>>
>> "Come said the Muse,
>> Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
>> Sing me the universal." -- Whitman
>
>
> --
> --
> Alberto de Campo
> Bergstrasse 59/33
> A-8020 Graz, Austria
> e-mail : adc@...
> --
>
> _______________________________________________
> sc-users mailing list
>
> info (subscription, etc.): http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/sc_mailing_lists.shtml
> archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
> search: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/

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Re: Symbolic Notations - Geometry operator @ - bug?

2009-04-26T01:28:55Z

hey juan,

you can simply do

var corner = (100 @ 200);
var width = (300@400);
corner @ (corner + width); // Rect(100, 200, 300, 400)

best, adc

>No, not a bug. The printout from Rect displays, in order, left, top,
>width, height. When you make a Rect from two Points, the
>specification is (x1, y1) @ (x2, y2) where x1 and x2 represent left
>and right (or vice versa), and y1 and y2 are the top and bottom
>coordinates. The Rect should show
>
>(min(x1, x2), min(y1, y2), abs(x1 - x2), abs(y1 - y2))
>
>... which is exactly what you see.
>
>In other words, it looks like you expect the second Point to be the
>width and height, but they are the real coordinates.
>hjh
>
>On Apr 25, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Juan Gabriel Alzate Romero wrote:
>
>>Hello List,
>>
>>I read the Symbolic Notations help file and I liked the way to
>>describe a Rect() by making 2 Points with ( x @ y ) "shortcut"
>>I'm having a little trouble with it know, you see, I have this 2
>>lines and they should give the same result:
>>
>>Window( "a Window @@@", (500 @ 500) @ (640 @ 480) ).front;
>>Window( "a Window Rect()", Rect(500, 500, 640, 480) ).front;
>>
>>When I check just this:
>>
>>(500 @ 500) @ (640 @ 480)
>>
>>It returns
>>
>>Rect(500, 480, 140, 20)
>>
>>Which is tottally different than expected. But executing each
>>Point separated gives the right result... i.e. this two lines:
>>
>>(500 @ 500)
>>(640 @ 480)
>>
>>gives me:
>>
>>Point( 500, 500 )
>>Point( 640, 480 )
>>
>>Which is ok. But yet again this:
>>
>>Point( 500, 500 ) @ Point( 640, 480 )
>>
>>will return
>>
>>Rect(500, 480, 140, 20)
>>
>>false again.... Is this a kind of bug? If it's only me who's
>>having this trouble? I can send screenshots if needed.
>>I'm using RC3, but tested it on RC1 and even 3.2 with the same results.
>>Ah yeah... and I'm on an intel machine with leo.
>>
>>Thanks in advance
>>
>
>
>: H. James Harkins
>: <mailto:jamshark70@...>jamshark70@...
>: <http://www.dewdrop-world.net>http://www.dewdrop-world.net
>.::!:.:.......:.::........:..!.::.::...:..:...:.:.:.:..:
>
>"Come said the Muse,
>Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
>Sing me the universal." -- Whitman

--
--
Alberto de Campo
Bergstrasse 59/33
A-8020 Graz, Austria
e-mail : adc@...
--

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Re: Coding vs patching: would you eat soup with a fork?

2009-04-26T01:07:29Z

hey thor =)
please dont take me anti 'name a fav platform', I just used the space
to quote some well known flacks.

I do know they do offer audio rate patches - yet, the approach doesnt
really interface 'fully'. I could as well call r3aktwer ( =) doesnt do
it better.

no - I am not anti MSP.
ppl do what they can with the tools they get.

cheers,

x

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:02 AM, thor <th.list@...> wrote:

>
>
>>
>
>> I'm not sure what you're referring to here, as I don't think the SC
>> community is anti-MSP in particular.
>
>
> Oh yes.. All SC users hate Max.
>
> For example, I was shot with a perfume water-pistol-rifle by a japanese punk
> in a pink dress, to whom I had confessed that I used Max (but only for
> teaching,
> of course, since I am such a hunk) in a Haag nightclub a year ago.
>
> The whole place was stinking with perfume.
>
> Anyway, joke aside, I like to use graphical programming for some things,
> Pure Data
> much preferred as it's open source and free. Why Max? To me the question is
> not of
> SC vs. Max, but Pd vs. Max.
>
> thor
>
> _______________________________________________
> sc-users mailing list
>
> info (subscription, etc.):
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>

Re: Coding vs patching: would you eat soup with a fork?

2009-04-26T00:24:18Z

This sort of thing would not be too hard to do with the existing GUI.

S.

On 25 Apr 2009, at 23:55, nescivi wrote:

> On Saturday 25 April 2009 13:17:47 Andrew Pascoe wrote:
>> While I much prefer coding to graphical programming, there are some
>> instances in which a graphical interface is useful for seeing how a
>> program should operate (see, for example, UML). I think a feature
>> that I would like to see in SC is something that goes like this:
>>
>> Pressing the 'enter' button in SC could be equated with a bang object
>> from Max or Pd. In this paradigm, blocks on the screen represent
>> chunks of code, and when a block receives a bang message, that code
>> gets evaluated. In this sense, the GUI functions as more of
>> representation of a scheduler than anything else. It's not always a
>> simple task to determine in SC code exactly what will get evaluated
>> when. In Max, this sort of thing is inherently apparent (provided
>> it's not horrible "spaghetti code"). One could also do something
>> like when a block of code finishes evaluating, it passes a bang
>> message on through an outlet, thus ensuring that certain code will
>> always get evaluated after other code.
>
> Cesare Marilungo made a bridge with Squeak, you can still download
> it here,
> http://www.cesaremarilungo.com/download/SuperCollider-
> Morphs20070524.st
>
> but unfortunately he is redesigning his website and has taken
> anything else
> down (like screencasts).
>
> I tried it some years back, and it allows you to have little blocks
> of code
> and connect them with wires.
>
> sincerely,
> Marije
>
> _______________________________________________
> sc-users mailing list
>
> info (subscription, etc.): http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/sc_mailing_lists.shtml
> archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
> search: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/

Sending Sysex with Patterns

2009-04-25T21:52:15Z

Hello Everyone,

I have a quick question about utilizing other midi commands besides \noteon within patterns. In the MIDIOut help file is says that

The following keys are supported by midi event:

\noteOn

\noteOff

\polyTouch

\control

\program

\touch

\bend

\allNotesOff

\smpt

\songPtr

\sysex

So if I wanted to send a new sysex message randomly between every 2-5 seconds, how would I implement that? I would imagine just sending the sysex Int8Arrays in a Pseq or something like that. But how would I control the timing of the sysex commands? I would appreciate any help.

Thank You,

Carl

Re: Symbolic Notations - Geometry operator @ - bug?

2009-04-25T20:09:29Z

No, not a bug. The printout from Rect displays, in order, left, top, width, height. When you make a Rect from two Points, the specification is (x1, y1) @ (x2, y2) where x1 and x2 represent left and right (or vice versa), and y1 and y2 are the top and bottom coordinates. The Rect should show

(min(x1, x2), min(y1, y2), abs(x1 - x2), abs(y1 - y2))

... which is exactly what you see.

In other words, it looks like you expect the second Point to be the width and height, but they are the real coordinates.

hjh

On Apr 25, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Juan Gabriel Alzate Romero wrote:

Hello List,

I read the Symbolic Notations help file and I liked the way to describe a Rect() by making 2 Points with ( x @ y ) "shortcut"
I'm having a little trouble with it know, you see, I have this 2 lines and they should give the same result:

Window( "a Window @@@", (500 @ 500) @ (640 @ 480) ).front;
Window( "a Window Rect()", Rect(500, 500, 640, 480) ).front;

When I check just this:

(500 @ 500) @ (640 @ 480)

It returns

Rect(500, 480, 140, 20)

Which is tottally different than expected. But executing each Point separated gives the right result... i.e. this two lines:

(500 @ 500)
(640 @ 480)

gives me:

Point( 500, 500 )
Point( 640, 480 )

Which is ok. But yet again this:

Point( 500, 500 ) @ Point( 640, 480 )

will return

Rect(500, 480, 140, 20)

false again.... Is this a kind of bug? If it's only me who's having this trouble? I can send screenshots if needed.
I'm using RC3, but tested it on RC1 and even 3.2 with the same results.
Ah yeah... and I'm on an intel machine with leo.

Thanks in advance

: H. James Harkins

: jamshark70@...

: http://www.dewdrop-world.net

.::!:.:.......:.::........:..!.::.::...:..:...:.:.:.:..:

"Come said the Muse,

Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,

Sing me the universal." -- Whitman

Symbolic Notations - Geometry operator @ - bug?

2009-04-25T19:17:51Z

Hello List,

I read the Symbolic Notations help file and I liked the way to describe a Rect() by making 2 Points with ( x @ y ) "shortcut"

I'm having a little trouble with it know, you see, I have this 2 lines and they should give the same result:

Window( "a Window @@@", (500 @ 500) @ (640 @ 480) ).front;

Window( "a Window Rect()", Rect(500, 500, 640, 480) ).front;

When I check just this:

(500 @ 500) @ (640 @ 480)

It returns

Rect(500, 480, 140, 20)

Which is tottally different than expected. But executing each Point separated gives the right result... i.e. this two lines:

(500 @ 500)

(640 @ 480)

gives me:

Point( 500, 500 )

Point( 640, 480 )

Which is ok. But yet again this:

Point( 500, 500 ) @ Point( 640, 480 )

will return

Rect(500, 480, 140, 20)

false again.... Is this a kind of bug? If it's only me who's having this trouble? I can send screenshots if needed.

I'm using RC3, but tested it on RC1 and even 3.2 with the same results.

Ah yeah... and I'm on an intel machine with leo.

Thanks in advance

Re: chuckLib

2009-04-25T18:05:44Z

Yes ! Back in business :)

I did update the whole dewdrop_lib and recompiled last time, dunno what went wrong...

Cheers.ar(Hjalte)

2009/4/25 James Harkins <jamshark70@...>

Did you update only chucklib or the entire ddw package? The fix was not actually in chucklib. It's in ddwCommon/TimeSpecs.

It is definitely in svn, so your update must have been incomplete.

http://quarks.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/quarks/dewdrop_lib/ddwCommon/TimeSpecs/TimeSpecs.sc?r1=896&r2=923

hjh

On Apr 25, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Hjalte Møller wrote:

I just updated, it still fails with the same message...

: H. James Harkins
: jamshark70@...
: http://www.dewdrop-world.net

.::!:.:.......:.::........:..!.::.::...:..:...:.:.:.:..:

"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal." -- Whitman

Re: inspecting UGens

2009-04-25T16:07:58Z

On Saturday 25 April 2009 19:03:12 Andrea Valle wrote:
> Uh, thanks a lot, Sciss with something I didn't know, Marije with
> something I haven't think of....

I normally use the nifty shortcut (C-c C-m) that exists in emacs, which shows
me the argument names and their default values in the minibuffer.
So I looked up how it's done there ;)

sincerely,
Marije

> Best
>
> -a-
>
> On 26 Apr 2009, at 00:45, nescivi wrote:
> > Hiho,
> >
> > On Saturday 25 April 2009 11:16:56 Andrea Valle wrote:
> >> While thinking about the GUI stuff, I was wondering:
> >>
> >> Is there a way to get from a UGen an array of args?
> >> I can retrieve values with
> >>
> >> SinOsc.ar.inputs
> >>
> >>
> >> But args names? Only dump with SinOsc.ar.dumpArgs ?
> >
> > SinOsc.class.findRespondingMethodFor(\ar).argNames
> >
> > sincerely,
> > Marije
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > sc-users mailing list
> >
> > info (subscription, etc.): http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/
> > sc_mailing_lists.shtml
> > archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
> > search: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Andrea Valle
> --------------------------------------------------
> CIRMA - DAMS
> Università degli Studi di Torino
> --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
> --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
> --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/
> --> http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle
> --> andrea.valle@...
> --------------------------------------------------
> " This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a
> lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous."
> (Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski)

Re: inspecting UGens

2009-04-25T16:03:12Z

Uh, thanks a lot, Sciss with something I didn't know, Marije with something I haven't think of....

Best

-a-

On 26 Apr 2009, at 00:45, nescivi wrote:

Hiho,

On Saturday 25 April 2009 11:16:56 Andrea Valle wrote:

While thinking about the GUI stuff, I was wondering:

Is there a way to get from a UGen an array of args?
I can retrieve values with

SinOsc.ar.inputs

But args names? Only dump with SinOsc.ar.dumpArgs ?

SinOsc.class.findRespondingMethodFor(\ar).argNames

sincerely,
Marije

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--------------------------------------------------

Andrea Valle

--------------------------------------------------

CIRMA - DAMS

Università degli Studi di Torino

--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/

--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle

--> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/

--> http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle

--> andrea.valle@...

--------------------------------------------------

" This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous."

(Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski)

Re: Coding vs patching: would you eat soup with a fork?

2009-04-25T15:55:54Z

On Saturday 25 April 2009 13:17:47 Andrew Pascoe wrote:

> While I much prefer coding to graphical programming, there are some
> instances in which a graphical interface is useful for seeing how a
> program should operate (see, for example, UML). I think a feature
> that I would like to see in SC is something that goes like this:
>
> Pressing the 'enter' button in SC could be equated with a bang object
> from Max or Pd. In this paradigm, blocks on the screen represent
> chunks of code, and when a block receives a bang message, that code
> gets evaluated. In this sense, the GUI functions as more of
> representation of a scheduler than anything else. It's not always a
> simple task to determine in SC code exactly what will get evaluated
> when. In Max, this sort of thing is inherently apparent (provided
> it's not horrible "spaghetti code"). One could also do something
> like when a block of code finishes evaluating, it passes a bang
> message on through an outlet, thus ensuring that certain code will
> always get evaluated after other code.

Cesare Marilungo made a bridge with Squeak, you can still download it here,
http://www.cesaremarilungo.com/download/SuperCollider-Morphs20070524.st

but unfortunately he is redesigning his website and has taken anything else
down (like screencasts).

I tried it some years back, and it allows you to have little blocks of code
and connect them with wires.

sincerely,
Marije

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Re: Coding vs patching: would you eat soup with a fork?

2009-04-25T15:50:40Z

On Friday 24 April 2009 22:03:45 Charles Céleste Hutchins wrote:

> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:20 PM, nescivi <nescivi@...> wrote:
> > On Friday 24 April 2009 12:14:14 Charles Céleste Hutchins wrote:
> > > Max/PD's strength is rapid prototyping. It's also good for block
> > diagrams,
> > > which, for me, is an easier way to conceive of synthesis than is text.
> > It
> > > would be really nice if there was a way to compile these block diagrams
> > > down to UGens. Some kind of Faust add-on would be cool.
> >
> > There is. You can create UGens from Faust code.
>
> That's true, but if would be nice if you could generate Faust (or
> ultimately SC) code from block diagrams.
>

The IDE of Faust seems to have come a long way. At least I remember seeing a
blockdiagram with the code, during the talk about Faust on the LAC this year.

http://lad.linuxaudio.org/events/2009_cdm/slides/faust_presentation_lac2009.pdf
page 48

sincerely,
Marije

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Re: inspecting UGens

2009-04-25T15:45:43Z

Hiho,

On Saturday 25 April 2009 11:16:56 Andrea Valle wrote:
> While thinking about the GUI stuff, I was wondering:
>
> Is there a way to get from a UGen an array of args?
> I can retrieve values with
>
> SinOsc.ar.inputs
>
>
> But args names? Only dump with SinOsc.ar.dumpArgs ?

SinOsc.class.findRespondingMethodFor(\ar).argNames

sincerely,
Marije

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Re: [dewdrop_lib] MixingBoard with custom GUI crashes SC.

2009-04-25T15:15:06Z

On Apr 25, 2009, at 8:23 AM, Andrzej Kopeć wrote:

I suppose it depends on MixerGUIDef's channelSize somehow. If channelSize is declared as 50@290 window closes without crash.

Thanks for pointing that out -- it was a bug on my part. When closing the window, it was trying to resize the window to the default MixerGUIDef size, but since the window was already gone, kaboom.

Try updating, should be fixed.

hjh

: H. James Harkins

: jamshark70@...

: http://www.dewdrop-world.net

.::!:.:.......:.::........:..!.::.::...:..:...:.:.:.:..:

"Come said the Muse,

Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,

Sing me the universal." -- Whitman

Re: chuckLib

2009-04-25T14:39:03Z

Did you update only chucklib or the entire ddw package? The fix was not actually in chucklib. It's in ddwCommon/TimeSpecs.

It is definitely in svn, so your update must have been incomplete.

http://quarks.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/quarks/dewdrop_lib/ddwCommon/TimeSpecs/TimeSpecs.sc?r1=896&r2=923

hjh

On Apr 25, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Hjalte Møller wrote:

I just updated, it still fails with the same message...

: H. James Harkins

: jamshark70@...

: http://www.dewdrop-world.net

.::!:.:.......:.::........:..!.::.::...:..:...:.:.:.:..:

"Come said the Muse,

Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,

Sing me the universal." -- Whitman

Re: Coding vs patching: would you eat soup with a fork?

2009-04-25T11:46:56Z

I believe it depends on how much of the "bang logic" you choose to
implement. Max becomes a nightmare when you have to do things like
have hot and cold inlets, forcing you to store things in float
objects, and you may never be exactly sure about what data is flowing
where at a particular time. On the other hand, just using bangs to
schedule things I find to be very intuitive. A metro object is very
clear in its definition, and you can use counters and selects to
trigger things at very specific times with no ambiguity. And if you
bother to make a tidy patch, it's all right there for you to see
without sifting through code that may have multiple routines running
on different tempo clocks, or whatever.

Also, having a GUI for chunks of code encourages more modular
programming. There's a reason that complex software applications are
(or should be) modeled before coding even begins. As I said before,
there's a reason UML exists: it's nice to be able to organize your
thoughts, see how a program flows, and then fill in the details.
Even if you didn't have any sort of bang logic, I believe it would be
a really cool feature for SC to graphically represent chunks of code
that say, you can click on to execute. I just like the bang logic
for automatically scheduling these executions.

--Andrew

On 25.04.2009, at 13:33, Miguel Negrao wrote:

> Andrew Pascoe escreveu:
>> While I much prefer coding to graphical programming, there are
>> some instances in which a graphical interface is useful for seeing
>> how a program should operate (see, for example, UML). I think a
>> feature that I would like to see in SC is something that goes like
>> this:
>> Pressing the 'enter' button in SC could be equated with a bang
>> object from Max or Pd. In this paradigm, blocks on the screen
>> represent chunks of code, and when a block receives a bang
>> message, that code gets evaluated. In this sense, the GUI
>> functions as more of representation of a scheduler than anything
>> else. It's not always a simple task to determine in SC code
>> exactly what will get evaluated when. In Max, this sort of thing
>> is inherently apparent (provided it's not horrible "spaghetti
>> code"). One could also do something like when a block of code
>> finishes evaluating, it passes a bang message on through an
>> outlet, thus ensuring that certain code will always get evaluated
>> after other code.
>> --Andrew
>> _______________________________________________
>> sc-users mailing list
>> info (subscription, etc.): http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/
>> sc_mailing_lists.shtml
>> archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
>> search: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/
> bang logic is a nightmare ! just the thought of having to deal with
> that again leaves me felling a bit sick. In supercollider i've
> never had problems with knowing what gets executed first, it's
> usually quite clear I think.
>
> --
> Miguel Negrão // ZLB
> http://www.friendlyvirus.org/artists/zlb/
>
> _______________________________________________
> sc-users mailing list
>
> info (subscription, etc.): http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/
> sc_mailing_lists.shtml
> archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
> search: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/

Re: chuckLib

2009-04-25T10:43:00Z

I just updated, it still fails with the same message...

-hjalte

2009/4/23 James Harkins <jamshark70@...>

Try to update now...

It's odd. This doesn't happen in any of my installations, but I can't
figure out why :) because timingOffset_ was in fact not implemented
-- so in theory I should have seen this bug before committing. *shock*
Now the method is there, so it should be fine going forward.

Thanks.
hjh

--
James Harkins /// dewdrop world

jamshark70@...
http://www.dewdrop-world.net

"Come said the Muse,
Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,
Sing me the universal." -- Whitman

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Re: Coding vs patching: would you eat soup with a fork?

2009-04-25T10:33:22Z

Andrew Pascoe escreveu:

> While I much prefer coding to graphical programming, there are some
> instances in which a graphical interface is useful for seeing how a
> program should operate (see, for example, UML). I think a feature that
> I would like to see in SC is something that goes like this:
>
> Pressing the 'enter' button in SC could be equated with a bang object
> from Max or Pd. In this paradigm, blocks on the screen represent chunks
> of code, and when a block receives a bang message, that code gets
> evaluated. In this sense, the GUI functions as more of representation
> of a scheduler than anything else. It's not always a simple task to
> determine in SC code exactly what will get evaluated when. In Max, this
> sort of thing is inherently apparent (provided it's not horrible
> "spaghetti code"). One could also do something like when a block of
> code finishes evaluating, it passes a bang message on through an outlet,
> thus ensuring that certain code will always get evaluated after other code.
>
> --Andrew
>
> _______________________________________________
> sc-users mailing list
>
> info (subscription, etc.):
> http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/sc_mailing_lists.shtml
> archive: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/marchives/sc-users/
> search: http://www.listarc.bham.ac.uk/lists/sc-users/search/
>
>

bang logic is a nightmare ! just the thought of having to deal with that
again leaves me felling a bit sick. In supercollider i've never had
problems with knowing what gets executed first, it's usually quite clear
I think.

--
Miguel Negrão // ZLB
http://www.friendlyvirus.org/artists/zlb/

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Re: Coding vs patching: would you eat soup with a fork?

2009-04-25T10:17:47Z

While I much prefer coding to graphical programming, there are some
instances in which a graphical interface is useful for seeing how a
program should operate (see, for example, UML). I think a feature
that I would like to see in SC is something that goes like this:

Pressing the 'enter' button in SC could be equated with a bang object
from Max or Pd. In this paradigm, blocks on the screen represent
chunks of code, and when a block receives a bang message, that code
gets evaluated. In this sense, the GUI functions as more of
representation of a scheduler than anything else. It's not always a
simple task to determine in SC code exactly what will get evaluated
when. In Max, this sort of thing is inherently apparent (provided
it's not horrible "spaghetti code"). One could also do something
like when a block of code finishes evaluating, it passes a bang
message on through an outlet, thus ensuring that certain code will
always get evaluated after other code.

--Andrew

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Re: inspecting UGens

2009-04-25T09:36:38Z

x = SinOsc.ar;
y = x.inputs.collect({ arg in,ini; x.argNameForInputAt(ini) ?
ini.asSymbol });

Am 25.04.2009 um 17:16 schrieb Andrea Valle:

> While thinking about the GUI stuff, I was wondering:
>
> Is there a way to get from a UGen an array of args?
> I can retrieve values with
>
> SinOsc.ar.inputs
>
>
> But args names? Only dump with SinOsc.ar.dumpArgs ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Best
>
> -a-
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Andrea Valle
> --------------------------------------------------
> CIRMA - DAMS
> Università degli Studi di Torino
> --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
> --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
> --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/
> --> http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle
> --> andrea.valle@...
> --------------------------------------------------
> " This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a
> lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous."
> (Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski)
>

inspecting UGens

2009-04-25T08:16:56Z

While thinking about the GUI stuff, I was wondering:

Is there a way to get from a UGen an array of args?

I can retrieve values with

SinOsc.ar.inputs

But args names? Only dump with SinOsc.ar.dumpArgs ?

Thanks

Best

-a-

--------------------------------------------------

Andrea Valle

--------------------------------------------------

CIRMA - DAMS

Università degli Studi di Torino

--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/

--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle

--> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/

--> http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle

--> andrea.valle@...

--------------------------------------------------

" This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous."

(Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski)

[report] did a smooth package install of scvim to jauntyi386

2009-04-25T06:59:37Z

thanx to artfwo and dan for maintaining the .deb package for ubuntu!

today i installed jaunty to my old optiplex and
tested installing the scvim package from the new url
this is an happy report

well i found dan tweeting about:
https://launchpad.net/~supercollider/+archive/ppa

and saw that the url for the sources.list meantioned over there:
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/supercollider/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main

is a bit different from what it used to be told over here:
http://artfwo.blogspot.com/2008/05/supercollider-for-human-beings.html

but dan told me that they are working together so decided to install
from rather new url dan gave me
but again the "how to install the key" by launchpad is a bit difficult to me
so just replaced some chars of what artfwo's blog is informing and ..
made it a bit more easy

this is what i did:

gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --recv FABAEF95 && gpg --export
--armor FABAEF95 | sudo apt-key add -
then added
deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/supercollider/ppa/ubuntu jaunty main
to my /etc/apt/sources,list
then
aptitude update
apt-get install supercollider supercollider-vim vim-addon-manager
then
vim-addons install supercollider

to get the help
did this after launching scvim(i mean in the vim window)
SCVim.updateHelpCache

everything went just fine
i even forgot to launch jackd before booting the server
but sc seems to do it automaticaly for me .. made the sound

well i found that bringing out the help seems to make syntax on
even though i have that off in my .vimrc
(from jaunty i had to put it there to keep vim mono-color)
that's a bit annoying but it just means that i have to learn more
about vim setups

thanx for your great work
am depending on you guys

--
SaRiGaMa's Oil Vending Orchestra
is podcasting:
http://sarigama.namaste.jp/podcast/rss.xml
and supplying oil.py for free:
http://oilpy.blogspot.com/

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Re: Pseg - start from the middle

2009-04-25T06:42:03Z

The problem is that Pseg calculates based on time elapsed since it started. If you go through lots of events very quickly, time advances only a little bit so there would be no effect.

fastForward works by playing events but not yielding them. Logical time advances by 0 -- when the stream finally gets to play normally, the Pseg envelope segments behave as though time were 0.

I don't have a quick answer to this problem. Thinking about it...

hjh

On Apr 25, 2009, at 6:36 AM, Miguel Negrao wrote:

Dan Stowell escreveu:

2009/4/24, Miguel Negrao <miguel.negrao@...>:

Hi

Hi is there a way to make a Pseg funtion similarly to IEnvGen, so that i
can start an "envelope" in middle way between start and end ?

Maybe you want to use the "fastForward" method of Stream?

I'm not sure that works for what I need, because what I need is to predict where the Pseg will be after some time from the start in seconds, and not in number of events since the start. An example of what I need to do:

: H. James Harkins

: jamshark70@...

: http://www.dewdrop-world.net

.::!:.:.......:.::........:..!.::.::...:..:...:.:.:.:..:

"Come said the Muse,

Sing me a song no poet has yet chanted,

Sing me the universal." -- Whitman

Help browser > [[Collections]] > Post ?

2009-04-25T05:49:27Z

Shouldn't be 'Post' help file elsewhere?

[sc3.3rc3]

ak

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[dewdrop_lib] MixingBoard with custom GUI crashes SC.

2009-04-25T05:23:07Z

I suppose it depends on MixerGUIDef's channelSize somehow. If
channelSize is declared as 50@290 window closes without crash.

Nevertheless, I think SC shouldn't crash under any circumstances.

[OSX 5.6, SC 3.3rc3]

// ----
MixerChannelDef(\mix4x4, 4, 4,
fader: SynthDef("mixers/Mxb4x4", {
arg busin, busout, level;
var amp = Lag.ar(K2A.ar(level), 0.01);
var sig = In.ar(busin, 4) * amp;
ReplaceOut.ar(busin, sig);
Out.ar(busout, sig);
}),
controls: ( level: (spec: \amp, value: 1), pan: \bipolar),
guidef: MixerGUIDef( 50@310,
[MixerMuteWidget, MixerPresendWidget,
MixerLevelSlider, MixerLevelNumber, MixerPostsendWidget,
MixerNameWidget, MixerOutbusWidget],
[Rect(0, 0, 20, 20),
Rect(0, 25, 50, 30),
Rect(10, 60, 30, 145),
Rect(0, 210, 50, 15),
Rect(0, 230, 50, 30),
Rect(0, 265, 50, 20),
Rect(0, 290, 50, 20)]
)
);

m = MixerChannel(\sum, s, 4,4);
z = MixingBoard(\test, nil, m);

/*
Closing MixingBoard window crashes SC.
*/
// -----

------------------------------------------------------------------
CRASH LOG:

Process: SuperCollider [1155]
Path: /Users/andrzej/Applications/SuperCollider/
SuperCollider.app/Contents/MacOS/SuperCollider
Identifier: net.sourceforge.supercollider
Version: ??? (3.3RC3 (Revision 9112))
Code Type: X86 (Native)
Parent Process: launchd [176]

Date/Time: 2009-04-25 14:21:12.107 +0200
OS Version: Mac OS X 10.5.6 (9G55)
Report Version: 6

Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
Exception Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS at 0x00000000c63e134b
Crashed Thread: 0

Thread 0 Crashed:
0 libobjc.A.dylib 0x954fb688 objc_msgSend + 24
1 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x94d81428 -[NSInvocation invoke] +
136
2 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x0004af77 -[SCVirtualMachine
performDeferredOperations] + 105
3 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x0004aaa3 -[SCVirtualMachine
doPeriodicTask:] + 27
4 com.apple.Foundation 0x946a7ea7 __NSFireTimer + 279
5 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x94d02b25 CFRunLoopRunSpecific +
4469
6 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x94d02cd8 CFRunLoopRunInMode + 88
7 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x949222c0
RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 283
8 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x949220d9 ReceiveNextEventCommon +
374
9 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x94921f4d
BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 106
10 com.apple.AppKit 0x93e5fd7d _DPSNextEvent + 657
11 com.apple.AppKit 0x93e5f630 -[NSApplication
nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 128
12 com.apple.AppKit 0x93e5866b -[NSApplication run] + 795
13 com.apple.AppKit 0x93e258a4 NSApplicationMain + 574
14 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x00002942 _start + 216
15 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x00002869 start + 41

Thread 1:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92467ad6 recvfrom$NOCANCEL
$UNIX2003 + 10
1 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x000e0bfd SC_UdpInPort::Run() + 99
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
3 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 2:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f2e6 mach_wait_until + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924963ad nanosleep + 314
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924a6eab sleep + 63
3 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x0007ff34 resyncThread(void*) + 18
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 3:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f20e
semaphore_wait_signal_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92451206 _pthread_cond_wait + 1267
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92496539 pthread_cond_wait + 48
3 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x00081648 TempoClock::Run() + 44
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 4:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f20e
semaphore_wait_signal_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92451206 _pthread_cond_wait + 1267
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92496539 pthread_cond_wait + 48
3 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x00081426 schedRunFunc(void*) + 66
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 5:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9246e6f2 select$DARWIN_EXTSN + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 6:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f1c6 mach_msg_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924269bc mach_msg + 72
2 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x94d020ae CFRunLoopRunSpecific +
1790
3 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x94d02cd8 CFRunLoopRunInMode + 88
4 com.apple.CFNetwork 0x94e12ebe
CFURLCacheWorkerThread(void*) + 396
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 7:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f1c6 mach_msg_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924269bc mach_msg + 72
2 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x94d020ae CFRunLoopRunSpecific +
1790
3 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x94d02cd8 CFRunLoopRunInMode + 88
4 com.apple.Foundation 0x946d6d40 +
[NSURLConnection(NSURLConnectionReallyInternal) _resourceLoadLoop:] +
320
5 com.apple.Foundation 0x946737ed -[NSThread main] + 45
6 com.apple.Foundation 0x94673394 __NSThread__main__ + 308
7 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
8 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 8:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f20e
semaphore_wait_signal_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92451206 _pthread_cond_wait + 1267
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92496539 pthread_cond_wait + 48
3 DiskIOUGens.scx 0x19e010ba
SC_SyncCondition::WaitEach() + 36
4 DiskIOUGens.scx 0x19e03405
disk_io_thread_func(void*) + 35
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 9:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f2e6 mach_wait_until + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924963ad nanosleep + 314
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9249626d usleep + 61
3 KeyboardUGens.scx 0x15714bee
gstate_update_func(void*) + 40
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 10:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f2e6 mach_wait_until + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924963ad nanosleep + 314
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9249626d usleep + 61
3 MacUGens.scx 0x15750e7c
gstate_update_func(void*) + 194
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 11:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f2e6 mach_wait_until + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924963ad nanosleep + 314
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9249626d usleep + 61
3 MouseUGens.scx 0x15757009
gstate_update_func(void*) + 179
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 12:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f20e
semaphore_wait_signal_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92451206 _pthread_cond_wait + 1267
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92496539 pthread_cond_wait + 48
3 BEASTMulchSendIndex.scx 0x1aa024fb
SC_SyncCondition::WaitEach() + 63 (SC_SyncCondition.cpp:45)
4 BEASTMulchSendIndex.scx 0x1aa032a3
disk_io_thread_func(void*) + 37 (MsgFifo.h:117)
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 13:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f2e6 mach_wait_until + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924963ad nanosleep + 314
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9249626d usleep + 61
3 RedInfo.scx 0x196eeb2c
bat_gstate_update_func(void*) + 294
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 14:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f2e6 mach_wait_until + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924963ad nanosleep + 314
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9249626d usleep + 61
3 RedInfo.scx 0x196eecea
sms_gstate_update_func(void*) + 206
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 15:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f2e6 mach_wait_until + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924963ad nanosleep + 314
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9249626d usleep + 61
3 RedInfo.scx 0x196eed90
sms2_gstate_update_func(void*) + 160
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 16:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f2e6 mach_wait_until + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924963ad nanosleep + 314
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9249626d usleep + 61
3 RedInfo.scx 0x196eee32
sms3_gstate_update_func(void*) + 160
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 17:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f2e6 mach_wait_until + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924963ad nanosleep + 314
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924a6eab sleep + 63
3 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x000fba2c resyncThreadFunc(void*)
+ 28
4 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 18:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f20e
semaphore_wait_signal_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92451206 _pthread_cond_wait + 1267
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92496539 pthread_cond_wait + 48
3 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x0011ec2c
SC_SyncCondition::WaitNext() + 44
4 net.sourceforge.supercollider 0x000fea78
SC_AudioDriver::RunThread() + 104
5 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 19:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f1c6 mach_msg_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924269bc mach_msg + 72
2 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x94d020ae CFRunLoopRunSpecific +
1790
3 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x94d02cd8 CFRunLoopRunInMode + 88
4 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925e85dc
HALRunLoop::OwnThread(void*) + 160
5 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925e8464
CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 96
6 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
7 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 20:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f226
semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924511ef _pthread_cond_wait + 1244
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92452a73
pthread_cond_timedwait_relative_np + 47
3 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925f7bc3
CAGuard::WaitFor(unsigned long long) + 213
4 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925f977e
CAGuard::WaitUntil(unsigned long long) + 70
5 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925f7f23 HP_IOThread::WorkLoop()
+ 759
6 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925f7c27
HP_IOThread::ThreadEntry(HP_IOThread*) + 17
7 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925e8464
CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 96
8 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
9 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 21:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9241f226
semaphore_timedwait_signal_trap + 10
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x924511ef _pthread_cond_wait + 1244
2 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92452a73
pthread_cond_timedwait_relative_np + 47
3 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925f7bc3
CAGuard::WaitFor(unsigned long long) + 213
4 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925f977e
CAGuard::WaitUntil(unsigned long long) + 70
5 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925f7f23 HP_IOThread::WorkLoop()
+ 759
6 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925f7c27
HP_IOThread::ThreadEntry(HP_IOThread*) + 17
7 com.apple.audio.CoreAudio 0x925e8464
CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 96
8 libSystem.B.dylib 0x92450095 _pthread_start + 321
9 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9244ff52 thread_start + 34

Thread 0 crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit):
eax: 0x18f81210 ebx: 0x94d813ae ecx: 0x95566264 edx: 0xc63e132b
edi: 0xbfffea5c esi: 0x18f86e7c ebp: 0xbfffea68 esp: 0xbfffea38
ss: 0x0000001f efl: 0x00010202 eip: 0x954fb688 cs: 0x00000017
ds: 0x0000001f es: 0x0000001f fs: 0x00000000 gs: 0x00000037
cr2: 0xc63e134b

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CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SearchKit.framework/
Versions/A/SearchKit
0x96766000 - 0x96766ffe com.apple.quartzframework 1.5 (1.5)
<4b8f505e32e4f2d67967a276401f9aaf> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Quartz.framework/Versions/A/Quartz
0x96767000 - 0x96775ffd libz.1.dylib ??? (???)
<5ddd8539ae2ebfd8e7cc1c57525385c7> /usr/lib/libz.1.dylib
0x96776000 - 0x96801fff com.apple.framework.IOKit 1.5.1 (???)
<f9f5f0d070e197a832d86751e1d44545> /System/Library/Frameworks/
IOKit.framework/Versions/A/IOKit
0x968f7000 - 0x969d8ff7 libxml2.2.dylib ??? (???)
<d69560099d9eb32ba7f8a17baa65a28d> /usr/lib/libxml2.2.dylib
0x969d9000 - 0x96a35ff7 com.apple.htmlrendering 68 (1.1.3)
<fe87a9dede38db00e6c8949942c6bd4f> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HTMLRendering.framework/
Versions/A/HTMLRendering
0x96a36000 - 0x96a3dfe9 libgcc_s.1.dylib ??? (???)
<a9ab135a5f81f6e345527df87f51bfc9> /usr/lib/libgcc_s.1.dylib
0x96a3e000 - 0x96a8fff7 com.apple.HIServices 1.7.0 (???)
<01b690d1f376e400ac873105533e39eb> /System/Library/Frameworks/
ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices
0x96a90000 - 0x96be2ff3 com.apple.audio.toolbox.AudioToolbox 1.5.2
(1.5.2) /System/Library/Frameworks/AudioToolbox.framework/Versions/A/
AudioToolbox
0x96be3000 - 0x96be3ffb com.apple.installserver.framework 1.0 (8) /
System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/InstallServer.framework/Versions/A/
InstallServer
0x96be4000 - 0x96c0ffe7 libauto.dylib ??? (???)
<42d8422dc23a18071869fdf7b5d8fab5> /usr/lib/libauto.dylib
0x96c10000 - 0x96c10ffd com.apple.vecLib 3.4.2 (vecLib 3.4.2) /System/
Library/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/vecLib
0x96c11000 - 0x96c11ff8 com.apple.ApplicationServices 34 (34)
<8f910fa65f01d401ad8d04cc933cf887> /System/Library/Frameworks/
ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/ApplicationServices
0x96c81000 - 0x96c8dffe libGL.dylib ??? (???) /System/Library/
Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib
0x96ca7000 - 0x96d2eff7 libsqlite3.0.dylib ??? (???)
<6978bbcca4277d6ae9f042beff643f7d> /usr/lib/libsqlite3.0.dylib
0x96d32000 - 0x96da4fff com.apple.PDFKit 2.1.2 (2.1.2) /System/
Library/Frameworks/Quartz.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
PDFKit.framework/Versions/A/PDFKit
0x96da5000 - 0x96dbaffb com.apple.ImageCapture 5.0.1 (5.0.1) /System/
Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/
ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture
0x96dbb000 - 0x96ddaffa libJPEG.dylib ??? (???)
<e7eb56555109e23144924cd64aa8daec> /System/Library/Frameworks/
ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/
Versions/A/Resources/libJPEG.dylib
0x96ddb000 - 0x96e55ff8 com.apple.print.framework.PrintCore 5.5.3
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PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore
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<97878a73074e7da4fe31ea010a5d5ae1> /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/
DisplayServices.framework/Versions/A/DisplayServices
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<7e5048a2677b41098c84045305f42f7f> /System/Library/Frameworks/
OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/OpenGL
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<0f2ba6e891d3761212cf5a5e6134d683> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonSound.framework/Versions/
A/CarbonSound
0x96ecf000 - 0x97015ff7 com.apple.ImageIO.framework 2.0.4 (2.0.4)
<6a6623d3d1a7292b5c3763dcd108b55f> /System/Library/Frameworks/
ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/
Versions/A/ImageIO
0x97016000 - 0x97031ffb libPng.dylib ??? (???)
<4780e979d35aa5ec2cea22678836cea5> /System/Library/Frameworks/
ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/
Versions/A/Resources/libPng.dylib
0x97082000 - 0x97085fff com.apple.help 1.1 (36)
<b507b08e484cb89033e9cf23062d77de> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Help.framework/Versions/A/Help
0x97086000 - 0x970aafff libxslt.1.dylib ??? (???)
<0a9778d6368ae668826f446878deb99b> /usr/lib/libxslt.1.dylib
0x970ab000 - 0x970b1fff com.apple.print.framework.Print 218.0.2
(220.1) <8bf7ef71216376d12fcd5ec17e43742c> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print
0x970b2000 - 0x970b2ffd com.apple.Accelerate.vecLib 3.4.2 (vecLib
3.4.2) /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/
Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/vecLib
0x970b9000 - 0x970d7fff libresolv.9.dylib ??? (???)
<a8018c42930596593ddf27f7c20fe7af> /usr/lib/libresolv.9.dylib
0x970d8000 - 0x97294ff3 com.apple.QuartzComposer 2.1 (106.13)
<40f034e8c8fd31c9081f5283dcf22b78> /System/Library/Frameworks/
Quartz.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QuartzComposer.framework/
Versions/A/QuartzComposer
0xbad00000 - 0xbad01fff libLatin2Converter.dylib ??? (???)
<2448a9d19ea5bd0ad43091ebcbffd197> /System/Library/CoreServices/
Encodings/libLatin2Converter.dylib
0xfffe8000 - 0xfffebfff libobjc.A.dylib ??? (???) /usr/lib/
libobjc.A.dylib
0xffff0000 - 0xffff1780 libSystem.B.dylib ??? (???) /usr/lib/
libSystem.B.dylib

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Re: Coding vs patching: would you eat soup with a fork?

2009-04-25T05:19:17Z

I cannot say anything more than agreeing that you're right.

But sometimes I wonder about drawing on a paper a diagram and convert it into a sythDef...

A gui would be less funny but not totally useless

Best

-a-

On 25 Apr 2009, at 10:03, Sciss wrote:

i don't see really why you would need such a GUI patcher (merely for SynthDef) if it wasn't much smarter than PD/ Max. e.g., the interesting questions would be:

- how could you represent multichannel expansion?
- how could you represent the container of the ugen, i.e. the synth objects along with their dynamic appearing / disappearing, their bus interrouting, graph (group) topology etc.

ciao, -sciss-

Am 25.04.2009 um 09:49 schrieb Andrea Valle:

To create a synthDef from a GUI with blocks representing UG shouldn't be that difficult.
When you'r ready you create the SynthDef, and an auto GUI for tweaking the synth and testing.
To have the GUI run in RT, like a patcher, is more complicated

Best

-a-

On 25 Apr 2009, at 04:03, Charles Céleste Hutchins wrote:

On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:20 PM, nescivi <nescivi@...> wrote:
On Friday 24 April 2009 12:14:14 Charles Céleste Hutchins wrote:
> Max/PD's strength is rapid prototyping. It's also good for block diagrams,
> which, for me, is an easier way to conceive of synthesis than is text. It
> would be really nice if there was a way to compile these block diagrams
> down to UGens. Some kind of Faust add-on would be cool.

There is. You can create UGens from Faust code.

That's true, but if would be nice if you could generate Faust (or ultimately SC) code from block diagrams.

sincerely,
Marije

>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Andrea Valle <valle@...> wrote:
> > That's a good point. In the BabaKoto I often wrap a UGen in a SynthDef so
> > that graphically patching Synth coincides with patching Ugens.
> > Best
> >
> > -a-
> >
> > On 24 Apr 2009, at 16:26, Nathaniel Virgo wrote:
> >
> > I've actually often daydreamed of combining the two paradigms, though
> > it's a project I will probably never have time for: a kind of
> > SuperCollider IDE (written in SC most likely) in which you can write
> > little re-useable modules in SC code and patch them together graphically
> > - and you can just double-click on them to get a code editor. It would
> > be the best of both worlds from my perspective because the graphical
> > metaphor is sometimes very helpful when thinking musically, but I find
> > text vastly superior for expressing more low-level synthesis ideas.
> >
> > Nathaniel
> >
> >
> > 2009/4/24 Dan Stowell <danstowell@...>
> >
> > Hi Pierre -
> >
> >> Disagreement is good, please carry on.
> >>
> >> In my experience, what you call "anti-MSP discourse" is actually quite
> >> rare, but in a sense it's a necessary conversation: max and sc (and
> >> all the other environments that offer similar possibilities) have
> >> different learning curves and make different things difficult/easy,
> >> and the typing-vs-patching aspect is an important factor. I for one
> >> would like to read more research on this topic - I only rarely use
> >> patcher languages myself, and so I have little personal experience of
> >> managing a large project using one, so I'd like to read studies which
> >> investigate these issues.
> >>
> >> Dan
> >>
> >> 2009/4/24, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay <tremblap@...>:
> >> > Sorry to disagree here.
> >> >
> >> > As much as I like SC, I can take MSP to 11 years old and get them
> >> > going within an hour. Not with SC. The intuitive plug and play is
> >> > the base
> >>
> >> of
> >>
> >> > it.
> >> >
> >> > SC is better to do more complex stuff, please do not confuse pedagogy
> >>
> >> and
> >>
> >> > DSP.
> >> >
> >> > And most of the best computer music I've heard is made by completely
> >> > computer illiterate, so the scale analogy is completely flawed. I play
> >>
> >> bass
> >>
> >> > at professional level, but don't ask me to build one. I have a
> >>
> >> professional
> >>
> >> > luthier for this.
> >> >
> >> > No flame starting here, but the anti-MSP discourse of the SC
> >> > community
> >>
> >> is
> >>
> >> > probably one of the reason why its growth is still modest despite SC
> >>
> >> being a
> >>
> >> > fantastic, different, complementary tool.
> >> >
> >> > hugs from the North of England
> >> >
> >> > pa
> >> >
> >> > Le 09-04-24 à 10:26, Lorien Dunn a écrit :
> >> > > As musicians we should at least be humble enough to learn to play
> >> > > out
> >> >
> >> > instruments well. If the computer is your chosen instrument and you
> >>
> >> can't
> >>
> >> > program in a proper programming language, then you're the student who
> >>
> >> hasn't
> >>
> >> > practiced their scales.
> >> >
> >> > > From a music grad who made into computer science academia before
> >> > > going
> >> >
> >> > back to music ;)
> >> >
> >> > > Lorien
> >> > >
> >> > > Uri Sala wrote:
> >> > > > Dear list,
> >> > > > Would you give someone a fork to eat soup? Sorry about the cheap
> >> >
> >> > analogy, but it breaks my heart every time I think that 75% of the
> >> > theoretical knowledge I have received in electronic music has been
> >> > using Max/MSP. Most of the young and more inexperienced guys at school
> >> > have a
> >>
> >> hard
> >>
> >> > time grasping the concepts of electronic music. I am totally convinced
> >>
> >> that
> >>
> >> > if they used SC they would learn much faster. Can anybody explain to
> >> > my
> >>
> >> why
> >>
> >> > the myth that coding is hard and that having a screen full of
> >> > spaghetti makes it easier to program is still in vogue? I really don't
> >> > get it. I
> >>
> >> mean,
> >>
> >> > really. Actually I do, or I think I do. When the beginning electronic
> >>
> >> music
> >>
> >> > student sees a Max patch, he only sees the end result, that is, a nice
> >>
> >> GUI,
> >>
> >> > and thinks WOW, max looks neat. They never think that, under that nice
> >> > looking main patch is hidden a maze of subpatches, until they start
> >>
> >> patching
> >>
> >> > themselves. I am sure that, eventually along the line, every Max user
> >>
> >> gets
> >>
> >> > the "god there are so many cables and windows open, maybe text would
> >> > actually be better" - kind of feeling. I did, only it took me about a
> >>
> >> week.
> >>
> >> > > > I am quite known among my friends in the conservatory for my
> >> > > > strong
> >> >
> >> > feelings about SC, and my increasing unease every time a teacher tries
> >>
> >> to
> >>
> >> > shove Max down our throats, clogging the screen with nonsense to do
> >> > something that would take 1 line in SC.
> >> >
> >> > > > Some people might argue it is a matter of personal preference.
> >> > > > Well,
> >>
> >> let
> >>
> >> > me get intransigent: it is not. Ruby vs Python is a valid dilemma.
> >>
> >> Coding vs
> >>
> >> > dragging is not. Just look around. Do you know any (non musical)
> >> > programmers? What do they use? Little boxes and cables? Ask any of
> >> > them whether they think it would be better to program in that way and
> >> > you're likely to get a laugh. Of course many people have done great
> >> > programming with Max. I once ate a soup with a fork too. Hey, even
> >> > Miller Puckette
> >>
> >> said
> >>
> >> > that Max was not thought out to program with, just to use as patcher
> >> > for
> >>
> >> C
> >>
> >> > modules.
> >> >
> >> > > > I wanted to ask whether anyone knows of a text somewhere that
> >>
> >> exposes
> >>
> >> > what I just said in more objective, less altered terms? If not, I
> >> > would
> >>
> >> like
> >>
> >> > to know the opinion of the forum. I promise to collect the strongest
> >>
> >> points,
> >>
> >> > print them and post them all over town.
> >> >
> >> > > > Sorry about the rant, but I cannot stand bad reasoning. I will
> >> > > > have
> >>
> >> my
> >>
> >> > pill now.
> >> >
> >> > > > Cheers
> >> > > > Uri

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--
cheers,
Les

--
Charles Céleste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh/podcast/
2430 5th St Ste N
Berkeley, CA 94710
USA

9 Matilda House
St Katharine's Way
London
E1W 1LQ
United Kingdom

Commission music (cheap!): http://celesteh.etsy.com

--------------------------------------------------
Andrea Valle
--------------------------------------------------
CIRMA - DAMS
Università degli Studi di Torino
--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
--> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/
--> http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle
--> andrea.valle@...
--------------------------------------------------
" This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous."
(Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski)

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--------------------------------------------------

Andrea Valle

--------------------------------------------------

CIRMA - DAMS

Università degli Studi di Torino

--> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/

--> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle

--> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/

--> http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle

--> andrea.valle@...

--------------------------------------------------

" This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous."

(Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski)

Re: Pseg - start from the middle

2009-04-25T03:36:01Z

Dan Stowell escreveu:
> 2009/4/24, Miguel Negrao <miguel.negrao@...>:
>> Hi
>>
>> Hi is there a way to make a Pseg funtion similarly to IEnvGen, so that i
>> can start an "envelope" in middle way between start and end ?
>
> Maybe you want to use the "fastForward" method of Stream?

I'm not sure that works for what I need, because what I need is to
predict where the Pseg will be after some time from the start in
seconds, and not in number of events since the start. An example of what
I need to do:

Pbind(\freq, Prand([300, 500, 231.2, 399.2], inf), \dur,
Pseg(Pseq([2,0.1],1),10)).play;

The durations go take 10 seconds to go from 2 to 0.1. Now I would like
to start this playing at four seconds into it, where the duration would
already be somewhere between 2 and 0.1.

>
>> Also, how can I stop the internal server from booting and creating a window
>> on startup and recompile ?
>
> You're on mac? You can open the class file for OSXPlatform and comment
> out the line "Server.internal.makeWindow;".
>
>> and finally, what is the shortcut to select the
>> the block of code where the cursor currently is without having to go to the
>> parenthesis, so selecting from the middle of the code block.
>
> cmd+shift+B

this will save tons of scrolling up and down !! many thanks

>
> Best
> Dan
>
> _______________________________________________
> sc-users mailing list
>
> info (subscription, etc.): http://www.beast.bham.ac.uk/research/sc_mailing_lists.shtml
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>
>

--
Miguel Negrão // ZLB
http://www.friendlyvirus.org/artists/zlb/

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Re: fm with feedback

2009-04-25T02:16:37Z

On 22 Apr 2009, at 12:11, Matthew Yee-King wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Can anyone suggest how to create a simple FM circuit with modulator
> feedback?
>
> I've come up with this, but the pitch does not remain constant
> (well that's the whole point, but you know what I mean):
>
> SynthDef("fm_fb", {arg b_freq = 440;
> var chain, freq;
> freq = b_freq + (LocalIn.ar(1) * MouseX.kr(0, 10) * b_freq);
> chain = SinOsc.ar(freq, mul:0.3);
> LocalOut.ar(chain);
> OffsetOut.ar(0, chain);
> //Out.ar(1, SinOsc.ar(b_freq, mul:0.1));
> }).play(s);

if you are still interested in this -
you could try to modulate phase instead of freq to avoid the drift.

something like this:

SynthDef("fm_fb", {arg b_freq = 440;
var chain, phas, sr, freq, fb;
freq = MouseY.kr(50, 1000, 'exponential');
sr = SampleRate.ir;
fb = OnePole.ar( (LocalIn.ar(1) * MouseX.kr(0, 1.5)), 0.91);
phas = Phasor.ar(0, freq/sr) + fb;
chain = SinOsc.ar(0, phas*2pi, 0.5);
LocalOut.ar(chain);
OffsetOut.ar(0, chain);
}).play(s);

the lowpass is just in there to dampen the high freq energy of the
modulation signal a little.
experiment with the coef, or throw it out if you are looking for this
very harsh sound.

because of the signal feedback the results depend heavily on the
block size.
for minimum delay one would have to write a dedicated ugen, and i bet
someone has already done this.

hope this helps,
volker.

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Re: build from source problem

2009-04-25T01:56:35Z

I'm using this script for compiling sc. Might be usefull to you:

#! /bin/sh

cd /Users/YOU/Downloads/libsndfile/
sudo make uninstall
cd "/Applications/Sound Apps/sc3svn/"
svn up
./compile.sh
cd /Users/YOU/Downloads/libsndfile/
sudo make install

Aaron Gervais escreveu:

> Wow, this worked! I wouldn't have thought that having libsndfile
> installed could prevent the build, since it used to be required...
>
> Thanks, Miguel.
>
> a
>
>
> On 19 Apr 2009, at 11:24:22AM, Miguel Negrao wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure if this is the reason, but you cannot have libsndfile
>> installed otherwise it won't compile. Each time I compile sc I have to
>> uninstall libsndfile (sudo make uninstall), compile sc and then
>> install libsndfile again (sudo make install).
>>
>> Miguel
>>
>> Aaron Gervais escreveu:
>>> Hi All,
>>> I've been trying off and on for the past few weeks to build from
>>> source without luck. About a month ago, I switched out the hard drive
>>> in my MacBook Pro (1st gen), reinstalled Leopard and XCode from
>>> scratch on the new drive, and migrated my data back in. So I've got a
>>> squeaky clean OS but I'm unable to build SuperCollider, either with
>>> the scripts or manually in XCode. I tried installing libsndfile but
>>> that didn't help. Any suggestions? I've tried maybe 4 or 5 different
>>> svn checkouts now, I always get the same message:
>>> PhaseScriptExecution "/Applications/SuperCollider3/Intermediate Build
>>> Files/SuperColliderAU.build/Script-D5F6AB340EF42BC4002DDA8C.sh"
>>> cd /Applications/SuperCollider3
>>> /bin/sh -c "\"/Applications/SuperCollider3/Intermediate Build
>>> Files/SuperColliderAU.build/Script-D5F6AB340EF42BC4002DDA8C.sh\""
>>> cp: /Applications/SuperCollider3/build/plugins/*.scx: No such file or
>>> directory
>>> === BUILDING AGGREGATE TARGET All OF PROJECT Synth WITH CONFIGURATION
>>> Deployment NOT USING PER-CONFIGURATION BUILD DIRECTORIES ===
>>> Checking Dependencies...
>>> ** BUILD FAILED **
>>> The following build commands failed:
>>> scsynth:
>>> Ld "/Applications/SuperCollider3/Intermediate Build
>>> Files/scsynth.build/Objects-normal/ppc/scsynth" normal ppc
>>> SuperColliderAU:
>>> Ld "/Applications/SuperCollider3/Intermediate Build
>>> Files/SuperColliderAU.build/Objects-normal/ppc/SuperColliderAU"
>>> normal ppc
>>> (2 failures)
>>> Thanks,
>>> Aaron
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Miguel Negrão // ZLB
>> http://www.friendlyvirus.org/artists/zlb/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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Re: Coding vs patching: would you eat soup with a fork?

2009-04-25T01:03:58Z

i don't see really why you would need such a GUI patcher (merely for
SynthDef) if it wasn't much smarter than PD/ Max. e.g., the
interesting questions would be:

- how could you represent multichannel expansion?
- how could you represent the container of the ugen, i.e. the synth
objects along with their dynamic appearing / disappearing, their bus
interrouting, graph (group) topology etc.

ciao, -sciss-

Am 25.04.2009 um 09:49 schrieb Andrea Valle:

> To create a synthDef from a GUI with blocks representing UG
> shouldn't be that difficult.
> When you'r ready you create the SynthDef, and an auto GUI for
> tweaking the synth and testing.
> To have the GUI run in RT, like a patcher, is more complicated
>
> Best
>
> -a-
>
> On 25 Apr 2009, at 04:03, Charles Céleste Hutchins wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 1:20 PM, nescivi <nescivi@...> wrote:
>> On Friday 24 April 2009 12:14:14 Charles Céleste Hutchins wrote:
>> > Max/PD's strength is rapid prototyping. It's also good for
>> block diagrams,
>> > which, for me, is an easier way to conceive of synthesis than is
>> text. It
>> > would be really nice if there was a way to compile these block
>> diagrams
>> > down to UGens. Some kind of Faust add-on would be cool.
>>
>> There is. You can create UGens from Faust code.
>>
>> That's true, but if would be nice if you could generate Faust (or
>> ultimately SC) code from block diagrams.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> sincerely,
>> Marije
>>
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Andrea Valle
>> <valle@...> wrote:
>> > > That's a good point. In the BabaKoto I often wrap a UGen in a
>> SynthDef so
>> > > that graphically patching Synth coincides with patching Ugens.
>> > > Best
>> > >
>> > > -a-
>> > >
>> > > On 24 Apr 2009, at 16:26, Nathaniel Virgo wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I've actually often daydreamed of combining the two paradigms,
>> though
>> > > it's a project I will probably never have time for: a kind of
>> > > SuperCollider IDE (written in SC most likely) in which you can
>> write
>> > > little re-useable modules in SC code and patch them together
>> graphically
>> > > - and you can just double-click on them to get a code editor.
>> It would
>> > > be the best of both worlds from my perspective because the
>> graphical
>> > > metaphor is sometimes very helpful when thinking musically,
>> but I find
>> > > text vastly superior for expressing more low-level synthesis
>> ideas.
>> > >
>> > > Nathaniel
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > 2009/4/24 Dan Stowell <danstowell@...>
>> > >
>> > > Hi Pierre -
>> > >
>> > >> Disagreement is good, please carry on.
>> > >>
>> > >> In my experience, what you call "anti-MSP discourse" is
>> actually quite
>> > >> rare, but in a sense it's a necessary conversation: max and
>> sc (and
>> > >> all the other environments that offer similar possibilities)
>> have
>> > >> different learning curves and make different things difficult/
>> easy,
>> > >> and the typing-vs-patching aspect is an important factor. I
>> for one
>> > >> would like to read more research on this topic - I only
>> rarely use
>> > >> patcher languages myself, and so I have little personal
>> experience of
>> > >> managing a large project using one, so I'd like to read
>> studies which
>> > >> investigate these issues.
>> > >>
>> > >> Dan
>> > >>
>> > >> 2009/4/24, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay <tremblap@...>:
>> > >> > Sorry to disagree here.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > As much as I like SC, I can take MSP to 11 years old and
>> get them
>> > >> > going within an hour. Not with SC. The intuitive plug and
>> play is
>> > >> > the base
>> > >>
>> > >> of
>> > >>
>> > >> > it.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > SC is better to do more complex stuff, please do not
>> confuse pedagogy
>> > >>
>> > >> and
>> > >>
>> > >> > DSP.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > And most of the best computer music I've heard is made by
>> completely
>> > >> > computer illiterate, so the scale analogy is completely
>> flawed. I play
>> > >>
>> > >> bass
>> > >>
>> > >> > at professional level, but don't ask me to build one. I have a
>> > >>
>> > >> professional
>> > >>
>> > >> > luthier for this.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > No flame starting here, but the anti-MSP discourse of the SC
>> > >> > community
>> > >>
>> > >> is
>> > >>
>> > >> > probably one of the reason why its growth is still modest
>> despite SC
>> > >>
>> > >> being a
>> > >>
>> > >> > fantastic, different, complementary tool.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > hugs from the North of England
>> > >> >
>> > >> > pa
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Le 09-04-24 à 10:26, Lorien Dunn a écrit :
>> > >> > > As musicians we should at least be humble enough to learn
>> to play
>> > >> > > out
>> > >> >
>> > >> > instruments well. If the computer is your chosen instrument
>> and you
>> > >>
>> > >> can't
>> > >>
>> > >> > program in a proper programming language, then you're the
>> student who
>> > >>
>> > >> hasn't
>> > >>
>> > >> > practiced their scales.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > From a music grad who made into computer science academia
>> before
>> > >> > > going
>> > >> >
>> > >> > back to music ;)
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > Lorien
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Uri Sala wrote:
>> > >> > > > Dear list,
>> > >> > > > Would you give someone a fork to eat soup? Sorry about
>> the cheap
>> > >> >
>> > >> > analogy, but it breaks my heart every time I think that 75%
>> of the
>> > >> > theoretical knowledge I have received in electronic music
>> has been
>> > >> > using Max/MSP. Most of the young and more inexperienced
>> guys at school
>> > >> > have a
>> > >>
>> > >> hard
>> > >>
>> > >> > time grasping the concepts of electronic music. I am
>> totally convinced
>> > >>
>> > >> that
>> > >>
>> > >> > if they used SC they would learn much faster. Can anybody
>> explain to
>> > >> > my
>> > >>
>> > >> why
>> > >>
>> > >> > the myth that coding is hard and that having a screen full of
>> > >> > spaghetti makes it easier to program is still in vogue? I
>> really don't
>> > >> > get it. I
>> > >>
>> > >> mean,
>> > >>
>> > >> > really. Actually I do, or I think I do. When the beginning
>> electronic
>> > >>
>> > >> music
>> > >>
>> > >> > student sees a Max patch, he only sees the end result, that
>> is, a nice
>> > >>
>> > >> GUI,
>> > >>
>> > >> > and thinks WOW, max looks neat. They never think that,
>> under that nice
>> > >> > looking main patch is hidden a maze of subpatches, until
>> they start
>> > >>
>> > >> patching
>> > >>
>> > >> > themselves. I am sure that, eventually along the line,
>> every Max user
>> > >>
>> > >> gets
>> > >>
>> > >> > the "god there are so many cables and windows open, maybe
>> text would
>> > >> > actually be better" - kind of feeling. I did, only it took
>> me about a
>> > >>
>> > >> week.
>> > >>
>> > >> > > > I am quite known among my friends in the conservatory
>> for my
>> > >> > > > strong
>> > >> >
>> > >> > feelings about SC, and my increasing unease every time a
>> teacher tries
>> > >>
>> > >> to
>> > >>
>> > >> > shove Max down our throats, clogging the screen with
>> nonsense to do
>> > >> > something that would take 1 line in SC.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > > Some people might argue it is a matter of personal
>> preference.
>> > >> > > > Well,
>> > >>
>> > >> let
>> > >>
>> > >> > me get intransigent: it is not. Ruby vs Python is a valid
>> dilemma.
>> > >>
>> > >> Coding vs
>> > >>
>> > >> > dragging is not. Just look around. Do you know any (non
>> musical)
>> > >> > programmers? What do they use? Little boxes and cables? Ask
>> any of
>> > >> > them whether they think it would be better to program in
>> that way and
>> > >> > you're likely to get a laugh. Of course many people have
>> done great
>> > >> > programming with Max. I once ate a soup with a fork too.
>> Hey, even
>> > >> > Miller Puckette
>> > >>
>> > >> said
>> > >>
>> > >> > that Max was not thought out to program with, just to use
>> as patcher
>> > >> > for
>> > >>
>> > >> C
>> > >>
>> > >> > modules.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > > I wanted to ask whether anyone knows of a text
>> somewhere that
>> > >>
>> > >> exposes
>> > >>
>> > >> > what I just said in more objective, less altered terms? If
>> not, I
>> > >> > would
>> > >>
>> > >> like
>> > >>
>> > >> > to know the opinion of the forum. I promise to collect the
>> strongest
>> > >>
>> > >> points,
>> > >>
>> > >> > print them and post them all over town.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > > Sorry about the rant, but I cannot stand bad reasoning.
>> I will
>> > >> > > > have
>> > >>
>> > >> my
>> > >>
>> > >> > pill now.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > > Cheers
>> > >> > > > Uri
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> cheers,
>> Les
>>
>> --
>> Charles Céleste Hutchins http://www.berkeleynoise.com/celesteh/
>> podcast/
>> 2430 5th St Ste N
>> Berkeley, CA 94710
>> USA
>>
>> 9 Matilda House
>> St Katharine's Way
>> London
>> E1W 1LQ
>> United Kingdom
>>
>> Commission music (cheap!): http://celesteh.etsy.com
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> Andrea Valle
> --------------------------------------------------
> CIRMA - DAMS
> Università degli Studi di Torino
> --> http://www.cirma.unito.it/andrea/
> --> http://www.myspace.com/andreavalle
> --> http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanderaalle/
> --> http://www.youtube.com/user/vanderaalle
> --> andrea.valle@...
> --------------------------------------------------
> " This is a very complicated case, Maude. You know, a lotta ins, a
> lotta outs, a lotta what-have-yous."
> (Jeffrey 'The Dude' Lebowski)
>