Sydney teacher looking for Unity help, some work

[Brendan Ragan]

Paul Turbett wrote:

> "....that iTunes monstrosity..."
>
> "...that ridiculous provisioning certificate stuff..."
>
> I totally agree, couldn't have said it better myself :)
>
>
> Chris McCormick wrote:
>> They're also pretty awesome if you love being DRMed up the wazoo and not being
>> able to get your media onto the device in a normal way (e.g. without using that
>> iTunes monstrosity) and awesome if you love not running a Free Software
>> operating system. I have one of these things from work for developing on, and
>> it's such a pain that I don't even listen to music on it. And don't even get me
>> started about developing for the device with a team of more than one person,
>> and that ridiculous provisioning certificate stuff. It's basically the least
>> freedom-giving device I have ever used.
>>    

Anyone who says that Apple's Team provisioning and management stuff
isn't completely broken is smoking some very good stuff.

Unfortunately, so are Blackberry and Google (different issues but still
major problems)... I wish someone would make a device that's got a
Market *and* is good to develop for. Hopefully Google will do so.

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[AndyDent]

On 04/28/2009, at 6:09 PM, Brendan Ragan wrote:
> Anyone who says that Apple's Team provisioning and management stuff
> isn't completely broken is smoking some very good  stuff.

Don't be ridiculous.

"Completely broken" would not see umpteen thousand apps on the AppStore.

Difficult, infuriating, apparently high-handed and arbitrary? Yes.

Broken to the point where NOBODY can succeed with it? Obviously not.

> ... I wish someone would make a device that's got a
> Market *and* is good to develop for. Hopefully Google will do so.


So far they have the most successful and fairest (in terms of margin)  
mobile store in history, based on my readings from the Palm developer  
mailing lists and other comments on the behaviour of mobile app  
stores. The margin they take is extremely reasonable by comparison  
with any other significant vendor, AFAIK.

We may be irritated by the way some things work but don't assume  
anyone else is going to do any better and keep the doors open.

As someone with significant ambitions for iPhone products who has also  
being monitoring the reports of app piracy for use on jailbroken  
phones, I am not going to bemoan Apple's attempts to keep the platform  
locked down.

Andy Dent
Freelance Designer-Developer - C++,  C#, Objective-C, Python, REALbasic


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[Chris McCormick]

On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:48:57PM +0800, Andy Dent wrote:

>> ... I wish someone would make a device that's got a
>> Market *and* is good to develop for. Hopefully Google will do so.
>
> So far they have the most successful and fairest (in terms of margin)  
> mobile store in history, based on my readings from the Palm developer  
> mailing lists and other comments on the behaviour of mobile app stores.
> The margin they take is extremely reasonable by comparison with any other
> significant vendor, AFAIK.
>
> We may be irritated by the way some things work but don't assume anyone
> else is going to do any better and keep the doors open.
>
> As someone with significant ambitions for iPhone products who has also  
> being monitoring the reports of app piracy for use on jailbroken phones,
> I am not going to bemoan Apple's attempts to keep the platform locked
> down.

Do you think they would have as big a problem if they hadn't required the user
to jailbreak their phones to run the software they like on their devices in the
first place? To me the idea of a computer that doesn't allow me to run my code
on it, or others to choose to run my code on it is an abomination.

You say "oh those dirty pirates" but I say "oh that greedy company".

The thing that really rubs me up the wrong way is how Apple build so many of
their products on top of, and using Free and Open Source Software, and then go
completely against the spirit of that software with their own commercial
releases, denying their users basic freedoms to use software and hardware that
they have legitimately purchased in any way in which they desire that does not
fit with Apple's master-plan and commercial interests.

You can say "boo hoo, they are a company, they have to make money" but the fact
is that they are company who opportunistically capitalise on a huge amount of
work by volunteers who wrote that software in the spirit of openness, sharing,
and freedom, and then turn around and use it for closed, commercial gain,
writing pieces of software which hamper their users to an extraordinary degree.

Every piece of Apple software is built with GCC. Every piece of their web
technology uses WebKit (was KHTML). The core of their operating system is built
on FreeBSD. Whilst there is nothing illegal about what they are doing, it is
extremely offensive to me. It's Jailware built with Freedomware, and it makes
me a bit mad.

The App Store is clearly a wondeful success. Never has it been so easy for
developers to market and sell their product to a vast and receptive audience.
Their touch based hand-helds are marvels of engineering, and their laptops are
superb - aesthetically pleasing and built with high quality. That's what makes
it so much more of a pity that they are such total jerks towards their users
and developers.

Hold tight folks, looks like we're in for a good old fashioned flame-war. :)

Chris.

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[Brendan Ragan]

Andy Dent wrote:
> On 04/28/2009, at 6:09 PM, Brendan Ragan wrote:
>> Anyone who says that Apple's Team provisioning and management stuff
>> isn't completely broken is smoking some very good  stuff.
>
> Don't be ridiculous.
Have you done iPhone development in a team environment? Have you had to
reassign the team agent?

Have you had a team agent join a second team and lost access to the
iTunes Connect page?

Those are just two things that can happen to completely break the
submission pipeline that I've personally seen (they aren't the only two).

There are *lots* of moving parts in the certification system Apple has
designed and they can break and it's not at all apparent where the
breakage has occurred when it does.

Heck, I've had situations where a device is authorised and they can't
run a developer version of one of our apps (yes, the device is in dev
mode. yes it's got the mobile provisioning file on it, yes that
provisioning file contains the device.) and then all of a sudden a day
later it works!

All of the above has cost people I work with LOTS of time and lost
income - there is real value being lost (yes to apple as well) because
of the problems in their system.

> "Completely broken" would not see umpteen thousand apps on the AppStore.
>
> Difficult, infuriating, apparently high-handed and arbitrary? Yes.
>
> Broken to the point where NOBODY can succeed with it? Obviously not.
Obviously we differ on where the "Completely broken" point is. I've had
the system "Completely Break" on me to the point at which we couldn't
submit - that's "Completely Broken" (for us)

However - it's Apple's garden and we have a choice to use it or not. In
terms of a real marketplace with a low barrier of entry - it is (right
now) the only real option out there for Mobile Devices.

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[Chris McCormick]

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:56:48AM +0800, Brendan Ragan wrote:
> However - it's Apple's garden and we have a choice to use it or not. In
> terms of a real marketplace with a low barrier of entry - it is (right
> now) the only real option out there for Mobile Devices.

I am really hoping that the upcoming Nintendo DS marketplace is less
restrictive than the Apple app store. The DS has an installed userbase of 100
million units which is more than three times that of the Apple devices, and I
know from personal experience that it's a lot easier to get 'unofficially'
compiled code running on it.

Best,

Chris.

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[Dunnymeister]

Even if the DS marketplace is 100 million, only the DSi will be offering downloadable apps which shrinks that figure to roughly 2 million units. I believe there are also some strict requirements to becoming a licensed developer found at http://www.warioworld.com/apply/

I think the "( Home offices do not meet this requirement )" kills the indie dream :(

Long story short, I think the iPhone is going to be the place to stay until Nintendo's business model changes.

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Chris McCormick <chris@...> wrote:

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:56:48AM +0800, Brendan Ragan wrote:
> However - it's Apple's garden and we have a choice to use it or not. In
> terms of a real marketplace with a low barrier of entry - it is (right
> now) the only real option out there for Mobile Devices.

I am really hoping that the upcoming Nintendo DS marketplace is less
restrictive than the Apple app store. The DS has an installed userbase of 100
million units which is more than three times that of the Apple devices, and I
know from personal experience that it's a lot easier to get 'unofficially'
compiled code running on it.

Best,

Chris.

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[Paul Turbett-3]

Yeah, this is correct, to a degree (the bit about the home office not meeting requirements). 2Dboy don't have an office, yet they were able to make a game for WiiWare...because it was obvious that they had a "hot" product that would benefit Nintendo to have on there system. I think (and have heard) Nintendo use there requirements as a filter, to keep the number of dsFart "games" to a minimum.

There was a Nintendo acquisitions guy spending a lot of time hanging around the IGF a few weeks ago, so they are not indie-averse. It's all about the games.

Not that this has anything to do with unlocked iPhones...sorry Andy :)

L8r, Paul

Dunnymeister wrote:

Even if the DS marketplace is 100 million, only the DSi will be offering downloadable apps which shrinks that figure to roughly 2 million units. I believe there are also some strict requirements to becoming a licensed developer found at http://www.warioworld.com/apply/

I think the "( Home offices do not meet this requirement )" kills the indie dream :(

Long story short, I think the iPhone is going to be the place to stay until Nintendo's business model changes.

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Chris McCormick <chris@...> wrote:

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:56:48AM +0800, Brendan Ragan wrote:
> However - it's Apple's garden and we have a choice to use it or not. In
> terms of a real marketplace with a low barrier of entry - it is (right
> now) the only real option out there for Mobile Devices.

I am really hoping that the upcoming Nintendo DS marketplace is less
restrictive than the Apple app store. The DS has an installed userbase of 100
million units which is more than three times that of the Apple devices, and I
know from personal experience that it's a lot easier to get 'unofficially'
compiled code running on it.

Best,

Chris.

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[Andy H-3]

Wont Apple know you are uploading an app from a Hackintosh?

> If you want to stick it to the man, you could buy a Dell Mini 9 and a copy of
> OSX to run on it. Google 'OSX netbook compatability chart' for more details.
>
> Chris.
>
> On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 01:57:48PM +0800, Andy H wrote:
>  
>> I think I might just lease a mac and get a short term iPhone contract  
>> just so I can ship my game.
>>    
>>> Jail break is different to unlocking and is reversible by reloading
>>> firmware from iTunes.
>>>
>>> If u find a 3g iPhone make sure it's on version 2.2 or lower. 2.2.1 or
>>> higher cannot be easily unlocked yet. Finding this out is hard thru
>>> web, I'd inspect first. Mine is 2.2.1 and whilst jailbroken (custom sw
>>> ringtones wallpaper apps etc) is not unlocked. Most ppl won't know and
>>> are prob onlatest firmware which is or soon will be version 3.0.
>>>
>>> ToWeR
>>> On 4/27/09, Brendan Ragan <lordmortis@...> wrote:
>>>  
>>>      
>>>> Andy H wrote:
>>>>    
>>>>        
>>>>> I found another that is 3G - $500 a reasonable price to pay?
>>>>>      
>>>>>          
>>>> Maybe - It totally depends on what you are getting the phone for!
>>>>
>>>> 1. iPhones without mobile data are pretty useless
>>>> 2. Unlocked iPhones are available from HK and/or Australian carriers
>>>> (just hard to do, they end up being about $800 - $900 for a 16GB iPhone)
>>>> 3. Jailbroken phones HAVE NO WARRANTY (this includes having the battery
>>>> replaced by apple etc.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>    
>>>>        
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>>>
>>>  
>>>      
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>>    
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> http://mccormick.cx
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[Andy H-3]

Meh  - no probs Paul.  From this discussion I can see that iPhone is not
the be-all and end-all of indie dev.  There are other options.

> Yeah, this is correct, to a degree (the bit about the home office not
> meeting requirements). 2Dboy don't have an office, yet they were able
> to make a game for WiiWare...because it was obvious that they had a
> "hot" product that would benefit Nintendo to have on there system. I
> think (and have heard) Nintendo use there requirements as a filter, to
> keep the number of dsFart "games" to a minimum.
>
> There was a Nintendo acquisitions guy spending a lot of time hanging
> around the IGF a few weeks ago, so they are not indie-averse. It's all
> about the games.
>
> Not that this has anything to do with unlocked iPhones...sorry Andy :)
>
> L8r, Paul
>
> Dunnymeister wrote:
>> Even if the DS marketplace is 100 million, only the DSi will be
>> offering downloadable apps which shrinks that figure to roughly 2
>> million units. I believe there are also some strict requirements to
>> becoming a licensed developer found at http://www.warioworld.com/apply/
>>
>> I think the "( Home offices do not meet this requirement )" kills the
>> indie dream :(
>>
>> Long story short, I think the iPhone is going to be the place to stay
>> until Nintendo's business model changes.
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 3:01 AM, Chris McCormick <chris@...
>> <mailto:chris@...>> wrote:
>>
>>     On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 12:56:48AM +0800, Brendan Ragan wrote:
>>     > However - it's Apple's garden and we have a choice to use it or
>>     not. In
>>     > terms of a real marketplace with a low barrier of entry - it is
>>     (right
>>     > now) the only real option out there for Mobile Devices.
>>
>>     I am really hoping that the upcoming Nintendo DS marketplace is less
>>     restrictive than the Apple app store. The DS has an installed
>>     userbase of 100
>>     million units which is more than three times that of the Apple
>>     devices, and I
>>     know from personal experience that it's a lot easier to get
>>     'unofficially'
>>     compiled code running on it.
>>
>>     Best,
>>
>>     Chris.
>>
>>     -------------------
>>     http://mccormick.cx
>>
>>     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>     To unsubscribe, e-mail: pigmi-unsubscribe@...
>>     <mailto:pigmi-unsubscribe@...>
>>     For additional commands, e-mail: pigmi-help@...
>>     <mailto:pigmi-help@...>
>>
>>
>

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[Chris McCormick]

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 09:10:23AM +0800, Andy H wrote:
> Wont Apple know you are uploading an app from a Hackintosh?

I assume yr joking, Andy!

Chris.

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[Andy H-3]

Thought this might be of interest

Fighting for feminism

Video game heroines have been smashing glass ceilings since the days of Ms Pacman.

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/homepage/video/gg_heroines_edit.flv

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/goodgame/video/

[Ellen Jurik]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

*bristles*

Yes, women can do it all... while visually satisfying men's lust :P

---

From: Andy H <andyhawkins@...>
To: pigmi@...
Sent: Wednesday, 29 April, 2009 11:47:48 PM
Subject: [PIGMI] Women in games

Thought this might be of interest

Fighting for feminism

Video game heroines have been smashing glass ceilings since the days of Ms Pacman.

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/homepage/video/gg_heroines_edit.flv

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/goodgame/video/

---

Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now..

[Jon Hayward]

I saw that the other night, usual poor journalism that good game exhibits.  It
really wasn't worth mentioning.

But I guess it is a videogame show aimed at 13 y/o males...

On Wed Apr 29 10:29 , Ellen Jurik <sunlightsylph@...> sent:

>*bristles*
>
>Yes, women can do it all... while visually satisfying men's lust :P
>
>From: Andy H <andyhawkins@...>
>To: pigmi@...
>Sent: Wednesday, 29 April, 2009 11:47:48 PM
>Subject: [PIGMI] Women in games
>
>
>
>
>  
>  
>
>Thought this might be of interest
>
>
>
>
>Fighting for feminism
>Video game heroines have been smashing glass ceilings since the days
>of Ms Pacman.
>
>
>http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/homepage/video/gg_heroines_edit.flv
>
>
>
>http://www.abc.net.au/tv/goodgame/video/
>
>
>
>      
>Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for

Yahoo!7. Get it now..



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[Noel Barrot]

Yeah Good Game isn't great at journalism but it does give a light simple overview of the subject. But really There isn't a lot to cover when it comes to women in games though it seems to be expanding a lot these days. I'd be more interested in hearing about female game players/developers as this group seems to be growing a lot over the past few years which is great to see.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Jon Hayward <jhayward@...> wrote:

I saw that the other night, usual poor journalism that good game exhibits.  It
really wasn't worth mentioning.

But I guess it is a videogame show aimed at 13 y/o males...

On Wed Apr 29 10:29 , Ellen Jurik <sunlightsylph@...> sent:

>*bristles*
>
>Yes, women can do it all... while visually satisfying men's lust :P
>
>From: Andy H <andyhawkins@...>
>To: pigmi@...

>Sent: Wednesday, 29 April, 2009 11:47:48 PM
>Subject: [PIGMI] Women in games
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Thought this might be of interest

>
>
>
>
>Fighting for feminism
>Video game heroines have been smashing glass ceilings since the days
>of Ms Pacman.
>
>
>http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/homepage/video/gg_heroines_edit.flv
>
>
>
>http://www.abc.net.au/tv/goodgame/video/
>
>
>
>
>Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8 optimised for
Yahoo!7. Get it now..

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[Joel Blackwell]

LOL

Nice one ;)

-Joel


Ellen Jurik wrote:

> *bristles*
>
> Yes, women can do it all... while visually satisfying men's lust :P
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Andy H <andyhawkins@...>
> *To:* pigmi@...
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 29 April, 2009 11:47:48 PM
> *Subject:* [PIGMI] Women in games
>
> Thought this might be of interest
>
> After Dark (ABC TV - Good Game)
>
>
>       Fighting for feminism
>
> Video game heroines have been smashing glass ceilings since the days of
> Ms Pacman.
>
>
> http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/homepage/video/gg_heroines_edit.flv
>
> http://www.abc.net.au/tv/goodgame/video/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Enjoy a safer web experience. Upgrade to the new Internet Explorer 8
> optimised for Yahoo!7. Get it now.
> <http://au.rd.yahoo.com/search/ie8/mailtagline/*http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJxbnQwdTJhBF9zAzIxNDIwMjU2NTkEdG1fZG1lY2gDVGV4dCBMaW5rBHRtX2xuawNVMTEwMzQ0OAR0bV9uZXQDWWFob28hBHRtX3BvcwN0YWdsaW5lBHRtX3BwdHkDYXVueg--/SIG=11k6t9t1c/**http://downloads.yahoo.com/au/internetexplorer/>.

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[Andy H-3]

No - I would know if this is true or not... are you implying Apple have
no idea?

> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 09:10:23AM +0800, Andy H wrote:
>  
>> Wont Apple know you are uploading an app from a Hackintosh?
>>    
>
> I assume yr joking, Andy!
>
> Chris.
>
> -------------------
> http://mccormick.cx
>
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>  

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[Andy H-3]

I mean I wouldn't know....

> No - I would know if this is true or not... are you implying Apple
> have no idea?
>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 09:10:23AM +0800, Andy H wrote:
>>  
>>> Wont Apple know you are uploading an app from a Hackintosh?
>>>    
>>
>> I assume yr joking, Andy!
>>
>> Chris.
>>
>> -------------------
>> http://mccormick.cx
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>  
>
>
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[Chris McCormick]

Sorry Andy, I genuinely thought you were having a laugh. I thought about this
some more and realised that I was too conservative in my estimates of what
people would accept from Apple, and so maybe it's possible that they have some
kind of hardware checking thing, but I sincerely doubt it. Here's more info:

<http://stackoverflow.com/questions/644225/iphone-development-on-hackintosh>

Chris.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 01:19:43PM +0800, Andy H wrote:

> No - I would know if this is true or not... are you implying Apple have  
> no idea?
>
>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 09:10:23AM +0800, Andy H wrote:
>>  
>>> Wont Apple know you are uploading an app from a Hackintosh?
>>>    
>>
>> I assume yr joking, Andy!
>>
>> Chris.
>>
>> -------------------
>> http://mccormick.cx
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>  
>
>
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[Andy H-3]

Seems easier just to pay the cash, rather than stuff around losing
valuable dev time.

> Sorry Andy, I genuinely thought you were having a laugh. I thought about this
> some more and realised that I was too conservative in my estimates of what
> people would accept from Apple, and so maybe it's possible that they have some
> kind of hardware checking thing, but I sincerely doubt it. Here's more info:
>
> <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/644225/iphone-development-on-hackintosh>
>
> Chris.
>
> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 01:19:43PM +0800, Andy H wrote:
>  
>> No - I would know if this is true or not... are you implying Apple have  
>> no idea?
>>
>>    
>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 09:10:23AM +0800, Andy H wrote:
>>>  
>>>      
>>>> Wont Apple know you are uploading an app from a Hackintosh?
>>>>    
>>>>        
>>> I assume yr joking, Andy!
>>>
>>> Chris.
>>>
>>> -------------------
>>> http://mccormick.cx
>>>
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>>>  
>>>      
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[Chris McCormick]

Yeah for sure, if your only concern is the monetary price, then you are right.

Best,

Chris.

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 07:15:29PM +0800, Andy H wrote:

> Seems easier just to pay the cash, rather than stuff around losing  
> valuable dev time.
>
>> Sorry Andy, I genuinely thought you were having a laugh. I thought about this
>> some more and realised that I was too conservative in my estimates of what
>> people would accept from Apple, and so maybe it's possible that they have some
>> kind of hardware checking thing, but I sincerely doubt it. Here's more info:
>>
>> <http://stackoverflow.com/questions/644225/iphone-development-on-hackintosh>
>>
>> Chris.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 01:19:43PM +0800, Andy H wrote:
>>  
>>> No - I would know if this is true or not... are you implying Apple
>>> have  no idea?
>>>
>>>    
>>>> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 09:10:23AM +0800, Andy H wrote:
>>>>        
>>>>> Wont Apple know you are uploading an app from a Hackintosh?
>>>>>            
>>>> I assume yr joking, Andy!
>>>>
>>>> Chris.
>>>>
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