System Settings categories and other minor issues

Hello everyone,

I was just wondering what the usability of the existing category
structure is, especially with regard to finding settings for certain
specific tasks.
If needed I would be willing to assist completely redoing the
structure, especially since I find the "General" and "Advanced" too
objective, not to mention the level of categorization of the Advanced
category is quite weak , and the categorization of General is clearly
not sufficient ( the numbers of modules in each category is massively
different for instance )

I am also wondering about the Usability of including an exit button (
KDE Bug 171915 ), not showing the header on modules, which includes
additional descriptions ( KDE Bug 175477 ), and the placement of
search boxes in toolbars ( KDE Bug 200058 ).

I have no problem with removing the header shown above modules ( it
has their "description" and their icon on the left most side )
although it may remove a method to communicate the point of the
modules to users. I do not have a problem either with an exit button,
except that it would further clutter the toolbar.
I have always looked on the absolute right of a window for a search
bar, so am wondering whether it actually belongs absolute right or as
far left as possible.

Regards,
Ben Cooksley
System Settings Maintainer
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On Sat, Aug 1, 2009 at 8:19 PM, Ben Cooksley<sourtooth@...> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
>
> I was just wondering what the usability of the existing category
> structure is, especially with regard to finding settings for certain
> specific tasks.
> If needed I would be willing to assist completely redoing the
> structure, especially since I find the "General" and "Advanced" too
> objective, not to mention the level of categorization of the Advanced
> category is quite weak , and the categorization of General is clearly
> not sufficient ( the numbers of modules in each category is massively
> different for instance )
>
> I am also wondering about the Usability of including an exit button (
> KDE Bug 171915 ), not showing the header on modules, which includes
> additional descriptions ( KDE Bug 175477 ), and the placement of
> search boxes in toolbars ( KDE Bug 200058 ).
>
> I have no problem with removing the header shown above modules ( it
> has their "description" and their icon on the left most side )
> although it may remove a method to communicate the point of the
> modules to users. I do not have a problem either with an exit button,
> except that it would further clutter the toolbar.
> I have always looked on the absolute right of a window for a search
> bar, so am wondering whether it actually belongs absolute right or as
> far left as possible.
>
> Regards,
> Ben Cooksley
> System Settings Maintainer
>

ping?
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[macias]

On Saturday 01 August 2009 10:19:27 Ben Cooksley wrote:

> If needed I would be willing to assist completely redoing the
> structure, especially since I find the "General" and "Advanced" too
> objective, not to mention the level of categorization of the
> Advanced category is quite weak , and the categorization of General
> is clearly not sufficient ( the numbers of modules in each category
> is massively different for instance )

IMHO this separation should be removed (I posted a report about
AFAIR). It is arbitrary, and it makes finding the appropriate module
only more difficult.

> I am also wondering about the Usability of including an exit button
> ( KDE Bug 171915 ),

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171915

? There is no exit button, not "when you get back". Exit button would
be confusing. SS workflow is different than any other app.

> not showing the header on modules, which
> includes additional descriptions ( KDE Bug 175477 ),

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175477

Yes! :-)

> and the
> placement of search boxes in toolbars ( KDE Bug 200058 ).

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=200058

;-)) Yes ;-)

By definition my 2 answers above are biased.

> I do not have a problem either with an exit
> button, except that it would further clutter the toolbar.

There are 2 buttons in the toolbar, it is hardly a cluttering. I see
other problem "exit" does not work as "exit" really.

> I have always looked on the absolute right of a window for a search
> bar, so am wondering whether it actually belongs absolute right or
> as far left as possible.

It is not a problem it is on the right, it is problem it leaves empty
space on the left for no reason.

The first issue is the most important here, and the workflow. I know
how it works but I still don't feel comfortable because SS makes an
exception.

Cheers,
_______________________________________________
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[Celeste Lyn Paul]

So.. there are some huge problems with System Settings. We can either
A) try to fix small problems (apply band aids) but stay stuck with a
suboptimal system or B) we take the dive and completely redesign
System Settings to prevent some of these problems to start with.

The problem with doing A is that theyre just temporary fixes and we
won't be able to solve any of the greater organizational issues.
Anyone who wants to try and work on A is more than welcome to it but
keep in mind that a lot of these tweaks might be abandoned in the
future for a better system.

I'm in favor of B and had hoped to work on it this past Spring but
unfortunately notifications took precedent and I'm not sure when I'll
be able to dedicate time to such a large project.  People can also
begin doing research for B. I would suggest taking a lot at the work
SUN and GNOME have been doing with their Control Panel; SUN conducted
several usability studies over the past year or so and we can learn a
lot from their work.

It would be a great starting point if someone did a competitive
analysis between Mac OSX, Windows, GNOME, and KDE and compared their
administrative organization tools.

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Maciej Pilichowski<bluedzins@...> wrote:

> On Saturday 01 August 2009 10:19:27 Ben Cooksley wrote:
>
>> If needed I would be willing to assist completely redoing the
>> structure, especially since I find the "General" and "Advanced" too
>> objective, not to mention the level of categorization of the
>> Advanced category is quite weak , and the categorization of General
>> is clearly not sufficient ( the numbers of modules in each category
>> is massively different for instance )
>
> IMHO this separation should be removed (I posted a report about
> AFAIR). It is arbitrary, and it makes finding the appropriate module
> only more difficult.
>
>> I am also wondering about the Usability of including an exit button
>> ( KDE Bug 171915 ),
>
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171915
>
> ? There is no exit button, not "when you get back". Exit button would
> be confusing. SS workflow is different than any other app.
>
>> not showing the header on modules, which
>> includes additional descriptions ( KDE Bug 175477 ),
>
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175477
>
> Yes! :-)
>
>> and the
>> placement of search boxes in toolbars ( KDE Bug 200058 ).
>
> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=200058
>
> ;-)) Yes ;-)
>
> By definition my 2 answers above are biased.
>
>> I do not have a problem either with an exit
>> button, except that it would further clutter the toolbar.
>
> There are 2 buttons in the toolbar, it is hardly a cluttering. I see
> other problem "exit" does not work as "exit" really.
>
>> I have always looked on the absolute right of a window for a search
>> bar, so am wondering whether it actually belongs absolute right or
>> as far left as possible.
>
> It is not a problem it is on the right, it is problem it leaves empty
> space on the left for no reason.
>
> The first issue is the most important here, and the workflow. I know
> how it works but I still don't feel comfortable because SS makes an
> exception.
>
> Cheers,
> _______________________________________________
> kde-usability mailing list
> kde-usability@...
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
>

--
Celeste Lyn Paul
KDE Usability Project
KDE e.V.
www.kde.org
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kde-usability@...
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[macias]

On Monday 03 August 2009 21:16:33 Celeste Lyn Paul wrote:

> So.. there are some huge problems with System Settings. We can
> either A) try to fix small problems (apply band aids) but stay
> stuck with a suboptimal system or B) we take the dive and
> completely redesign System Settings to prevent some of these
> problems to start with.

Just a remark:
... or do both, when possible. For example -- making search editbox
from left to right is hardly a conflict with B.

> I'm in favor of B

/me too. At least see what would "perfect" SS could look like and how
far we are with current UI.

Cheers,
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On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Celeste Lyn Paul<celeste@...> wrote:

> So.. there are some huge problems with System Settings. We can either
> A) try to fix small problems (apply band aids) but stay stuck with a
> suboptimal system or B) we take the dive and completely redesign
> System Settings to prevent some of these problems to start with.
>
> The problem with doing A is that theyre just temporary fixes and we
> won't be able to solve any of the greater organizational issues.
> Anyone who wants to try and work on A is more than welcome to it but
> keep in mind that a lot of these tweaks might be abandoned in the
> future for a better system.
>
> I'm in favor of B and had hoped to work on it this past Spring but
> unfortunately notifications took precedent and I'm not sure when I'll
> be able to dedicate time to such a large project.  People can also
> begin doing research for B. I would suggest taking a lot at the work
> SUN and GNOME have been doing with their Control Panel; SUN conducted
> several usability studies over the past year or so and we can learn a
> lot from their work.

I agree also, I have looked at the Sun usability study done for the
GNOME Control Center (only found the one unfortunately? ) and have
provided an initial revision of a proposed recategorisation of System
Settings.  Please check and comment on it so it can be improved upon.
I have attached it inline below.

>
> It would be a great starting point if someone did a competitive
> analysis between Mac OSX, Windows, GNOME, and KDE and compared their
> administrative organization tools.
>
> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Maciej Pilichowski<bluedzins@...> wrote:
>> On Saturday 01 August 2009 10:19:27 Ben Cooksley wrote:
>>
>>> If needed I would be willing to assist completely redoing the
>>> structure, especially since I find the "General" and "Advanced" too
>>> objective, not to mention the level of categorization of the
>>> Advanced category is quite weak , and the categorization of General
>>> is clearly not sufficient ( the numbers of modules in each category
>>> is massively different for instance )
>>
>> IMHO this separation should be removed (I posted a report about
>> AFAIR). It is arbitrary, and it makes finding the appropriate module
>> only more difficult.
>>
>>> I am also wondering about the Usability of including an exit button
>>> ( KDE Bug 171915 ),
>>
>> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171915
>>
>> ? There is no exit button, not "when you get back". Exit button would
>> be confusing. SS workflow is different than any other app.
>>
>>> not showing the header on modules, which
>>> includes additional descriptions ( KDE Bug 175477 ),
>>
>> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175477
>>
>> Yes! :-)
>>
>>> and the
>>> placement of search boxes in toolbars ( KDE Bug 200058 ).
>>
>> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=200058
>>
>> ;-)) Yes ;-)
>>
>> By definition my 2 answers above are biased.
>>
>>> I do not have a problem either with an exit
>>> button, except that it would further clutter the toolbar.
>>
>> There are 2 buttons in the toolbar, it is hardly a cluttering. I see
>> other problem "exit" does not work as "exit" really.
>>
>>> I have always looked on the absolute right of a window for a search
>>> bar, so am wondering whether it actually belongs absolute right or
>>> as far left as possible.
>>
>> It is not a problem it is on the right, it is problem it leaves empty
>> space on the left for no reason.
>>
>> The first issue is the most important here, and the workflow. I know
>> how it works but I still don't feel comfortable because SS makes an
>> exception.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> _______________________________________________
>> kde-usability mailing list
>> kde-usability@...
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Celeste Lyn Paul
> KDE Usability Project
> KDE e.V.
> www.kde.org
> _______________________________________________
> kde-usability mailing list
> kde-usability@...
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
>

Modules proposed to be deprecated and removed:
Power Controls ( Conflicts with settings offered by Power managers
such as Powerdevil, which are more fully featured )

Modules which could not be placed:
Desktop Theme Details
 ( This is a single module, but doesn't fit in any category?? )

Comments:
Some modules ( such as Accessibility and Power Management ) feel like
they need to be top level, but doing so would likely create clutter
There are also multiple modules with closely overlapping names, such
as the three Keyboard Shortcut modules

Proposed Restructure:

Display ( if merges carried out will contain only 3 modules )
  Multiple Monitors
  Size & Orientation ( possibly Multiple Monitors should be merged here? )
  Screen Saver
  Window Behaviour
  Window Specific ( this name is horrible, needs discussion. Perhaps
as tab on "Window Behaviour" module would be better )

Locale
  Date & Time
  Country & Language ( one of Region or Country should be dropped from
name, Region isn't even selectable I think )
  Spell Checker

Default Behaviour
  Default Applications
  File Associations
  Device Actions
  Desktop Search
  Autostart
  System Notifications ( merge System Bell perhaps? )
  System Bell

Keyboard & Mouse
  Mouse
  Keyboard
  Keyboard Layout
  Custom Keyboard Shortcuts ( was Input Actions )
  Standard Keyboard Shortcuts
  Global Keyboard Shortcuts

Peripherals
  Remote Controls
  Joystick
  Digital Camera
  Printers
  Device Discovery

Appearence
  Style
  Colours
  Icons
  Fonts
  Font Management ( perhaps integrate on tab with Fonts? )
  Splash Screen
  Emoticons

Desktop
  Window Decorations ( was Window )
  Desktop Effects
  Multiple Desktops
  Screen Edges
  Launch Feedback

Sharing
  Windows Shares ( was Samba )
  Network Credentials ( was Local Network Browsing )

Personal
  Password & User Account
  Paths
  Personal Resources ( was KDE Resources )
  Akonadi ( was Akonadi Configuration )
  KDE Wallet

Multimedia ( All names below need discussion )
  Phonon ( was Multimedia )
  Audio CDs
  CDDB Retrieval

Networking
  Network Management
  Proxy
  Connection Preferences
  Service Discovery

General Administration
  Service Manager
  Session Manager
  K3b Setup
  Login Manager
  PolicyKit Authorisation
  Power Management

Accessibility
  ( This is currently one large module, and should be split up,
removing the tabs currently in use )

--
Ben Cooksley
System Settings & Device Actions KCM Maintainer
KDE Community Forums Administrator ( forum.kde.org )
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On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 8:22 PM, Ben Cooksley<sourtooth@...> wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:16 AM, Celeste Lyn Paul<celeste@...> wrote:
>> So.. there are some huge problems with System Settings. We can either
>> A) try to fix small problems (apply band aids) but stay stuck with a
>> suboptimal system or B) we take the dive and completely redesign
>> System Settings to prevent some of these problems to start with.
>>
>> The problem with doing A is that theyre just temporary fixes and we
>> won't be able to solve any of the greater organizational issues.
>> Anyone who wants to try and work on A is more than welcome to it but
>> keep in mind that a lot of these tweaks might be abandoned in the
>> future for a better system.
>>
>> I'm in favor of B and had hoped to work on it this past Spring but
>> unfortunately notifications took precedent and I'm not sure when I'll
>> be able to dedicate time to such a large project.  People can also
>> begin doing research for B. I would suggest taking a lot at the work
>> SUN and GNOME have been doing with their Control Panel; SUN conducted
>> several usability studies over the past year or so and we can learn a
>> lot from their work.
>
> I agree also, I have looked at the Sun usability study done for the
> GNOME Control Center (only found the one unfortunately? ) and have
> provided an initial revision of a proposed recategorisation of System
> Settings.  Please check and comment on it so it can be improved upon.
> I have attached it inline below.
>
>>
>> It would be a great starting point if someone did a competitive
>> analysis between Mac OSX, Windows, GNOME, and KDE and compared their
>> administrative organization tools.
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Maciej Pilichowski<bluedzins@...> wrote:
>>> On Saturday 01 August 2009 10:19:27 Ben Cooksley wrote:
>>>
>>>> If needed I would be willing to assist completely redoing the
>>>> structure, especially since I find the "General" and "Advanced" too
>>>> objective, not to mention the level of categorization of the
>>>> Advanced category is quite weak , and the categorization of General
>>>> is clearly not sufficient ( the numbers of modules in each category
>>>> is massively different for instance )
>>>
>>> IMHO this separation should be removed (I posted a report about
>>> AFAIR). It is arbitrary, and it makes finding the appropriate module
>>> only more difficult.
>>>
>>>> I am also wondering about the Usability of including an exit button
>>>> ( KDE Bug 171915 ),
>>>
>>> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=171915
>>>
>>> ? There is no exit button, not "when you get back". Exit button would
>>> be confusing. SS workflow is different than any other app.
>>>
>>>> not showing the header on modules, which
>>>> includes additional descriptions ( KDE Bug 175477 ),
>>>
>>> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175477
>>>
>>> Yes! :-)
>>>
>>>> and the
>>>> placement of search boxes in toolbars ( KDE Bug 200058 ).
>>>
>>> https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=200058
>>>
>>> ;-)) Yes ;-)
>>>
>>> By definition my 2 answers above are biased.
>>>
>>>> I do not have a problem either with an exit
>>>> button, except that it would further clutter the toolbar.
>>>
>>> There are 2 buttons in the toolbar, it is hardly a cluttering. I see
>>> other problem "exit" does not work as "exit" really.
>>>
>>>> I have always looked on the absolute right of a window for a search
>>>> bar, so am wondering whether it actually belongs absolute right or
>>>> as far left as possible.
>>>
>>> It is not a problem it is on the right, it is problem it leaves empty
>>> space on the left for no reason.
>>>
>>> The first issue is the most important here, and the workflow. I know
>>> how it works but I still don't feel comfortable because SS makes an
>>> exception.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kde-usability mailing list
>>> kde-usability@...
>>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Celeste Lyn Paul
>> KDE Usability Project
>> KDE e.V.
>> www.kde.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> kde-usability mailing list
>> kde-usability@...
>> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
>>
>
> Modules proposed to be deprecated and removed:
> Power Controls ( Conflicts with settings offered by Power managers
> such as Powerdevil, which are more fully featured )
>
> Modules which could not be placed:
> Desktop Theme Details
>  ( This is a single module, but doesn't fit in any category?? )
>
> Comments:
> Some modules ( such as Accessibility and Power Management ) feel like
> they need to be top level, but doing so would likely create clutter
> There are also multiple modules with closely overlapping names, such
> as the three Keyboard Shortcut modules
>
> Proposed Restructure:
>
> Display ( if merges carried out will contain only 3 modules )
>  Multiple Monitors
>  Size & Orientation ( possibly Multiple Monitors should be merged here? )
>  Screen Saver
>  Window Behaviour
>  Window Specific ( this name is horrible, needs discussion. Perhaps
> as tab on "Window Behaviour" module would be better )
>
> Locale
>  Date & Time
>  Country & Language ( one of Region or Country should be dropped from
> name, Region isn't even selectable I think )
>  Spell Checker
>
> Default Behaviour
>  Default Applications
>  File Associations
>  Device Actions
>  Desktop Search
>  Autostart
>  System Notifications ( merge System Bell perhaps? )
>  System Bell
>
> Keyboard & Mouse
>  Mouse
>  Keyboard
>  Keyboard Layout
>  Custom Keyboard Shortcuts ( was Input Actions )
>  Standard Keyboard Shortcuts
>  Global Keyboard Shortcuts
>
> Peripherals
>  Remote Controls
>  Joystick
>  Digital Camera
>  Printers
>  Device Discovery
>
> Appearence
>  Style
>  Colours
>  Icons
>  Fonts
>  Font Management ( perhaps integrate on tab with Fonts? )
>  Splash Screen
>  Emoticons
>
> Desktop
>  Window Decorations ( was Window )
>  Desktop Effects
>  Multiple Desktops
>  Screen Edges
>  Launch Feedback
>
> Sharing
>  Windows Shares ( was Samba )
>  Network Credentials ( was Local Network Browsing )
>
> Personal
>  Password & User Account
>  Paths
>  Personal Resources ( was KDE Resources )
>  Akonadi ( was Akonadi Configuration )
>  KDE Wallet
>
> Multimedia ( All names below need discussion )
>  Phonon ( was Multimedia )
>  Audio CDs
>  CDDB Retrieval
>
> Networking
>  Network Management
>  Proxy
>  Connection Preferences
>  Service Discovery
>
> General Administration
>  Service Manager
>  Session Manager
>  K3b Setup
>  Login Manager
>  PolicyKit Authorisation
>  Power Management
>
> Accessibility
>  ( This is currently one large module, and should be split up,
> removing the tabs currently in use )
>
> --
> Ben Cooksley
> System Settings & Device Actions KCM Maintainer
> KDE Community Forums Administrator ( forum.kde.org )
>

ping?
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[Michael Rudolph-3]

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 21:16, Celeste Lyn Paul<celeste@...> wrote:
> It would be a great starting point if someone did a competitive
> analysis between Mac OSX, Windows, GNOME, and KDE and compared their
> administrative organization tools.

Hi Celeste,

could you please elaborate on that? What would such a competitive
analysis look like? And what would be its outcome?

If you could provide some more information, I'd very much like to help.

Thanks,

michael
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[Craig Drummond-3]

> > Appearence
> >  Style
> >  Colours
> >  Icons
> >  Fonts
> >  Font Management ( perhaps integrate on tab with Fonts? )

I'd be happy to do that. However, the problem is that when you install a font
it is not available until after an application has been restarted - as, AFAIK,
there is no way to ask Qt to rebuild its font database. This leads to the
fonts kcm not being able to see the newly installed fonts - which might look
odd if it is the same module as the installer/manager.

Craig.


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[macias]

On Thursday 06 August 2009 10:22:50 Ben Cooksley wrote:

> Proposed Restructure:

> Appearence
>   Style
>   Colours
>   Icons
>   Fonts
>   Font Management ( perhaps integrate on tab with Fonts? )
>   Splash Screen
>   Emoticons

> Desktop
>   Window Decorations ( was Window )
>   Desktop Effects
>   Multiple Desktops
>   Screen Edges
>   Launch Feedback

> Display ( if merges carried out will contain only 3 modules )
>   Multiple Monitors
>   Size & Orientation ( possibly Multiple Monitors should be merged
> here? )
> Screen Saver
>   Window Behaviour
>   Window Specific ( this name is horrible, needs discussion.
> Perhaps as tab on "Window Behaviour" module would be better )


Three groups for very similar things -- it is hard to find a specific
module if you don't in advance where to look.

My suggestions:
Sections -- splash screen is rather from the desktop group. Screen
saver too.

I would merge the latter two into one group because display is rather
hardware-oriented, which would leave only two modules in this group.

> Locale
>   Date & Time
>   Country & Language ( one of Region or Country should be dropped
> from name, Region isn't even selectable I think )
>   Spell Checker

> Default Behaviour

The name is not informative. I am just pointing it out -- /me, lack of
idea.

>   Default Applications
>   File Associations
>   Device Actions
>   Desktop Search
>   Autostart
>   System Notifications ( merge System Bell perhaps? )
>   System Bell

I think sound bell should be part of the sound (it is closer to
hardware), not notifications.

> General Administration
>   Service Manager
>   Session Manager
>   K3b Setup
>   Login Manager
>   PolicyKit Authorisation
>   Power Management

Similar purpose of those two groups. For example -- autostart and
session manager should be rather next to each other. Some of them I
believe are only for admin, like login manager, right? Maybe this
should be separate group -- modules for root, and all other usable by
user should be placed in general settings (for user).

> Keyboard & Mouse
>   Mouse
>   Keyboard
>   Keyboard Layout

should be _duplicated_ in locale.

>   Custom Keyboard Shortcuts ( was Input Actions )
>   Standard Keyboard Shortcuts
>   Global Keyboard Shortcuts

All those 3 should be merged (reported AFAIR).

> Peripherals
>   Remote Controls
>   Joystick
>   Digital Camera
>   Printers
>   Device Discovery

This could be merged with keyboard and mouse (keyboard and mouse are
peripherals).

> Sharing
>   Windows Shares ( was Samba )
>   Network Credentials ( was Local Network Browsing )

> Networking
>   Network Management
>   Proxy
>   Connection Preferences
>   Service Discovery

Maybe merged, the groups are very similar. Besides for sharing we
would have ratio 1:2.

> Personal
>   Password & User Account
>   Paths
>   Personal Resources ( was KDE Resources )
>   Akonadi ( was Akonadi Configuration )
>   KDE Wallet
>
> Multimedia ( All names below need discussion )
>   Phonon ( was Multimedia )
>   Audio CDs
>   CDDB Retrieval
>
> Accessibility
>   ( This is currently one large module, and should be split up,
> removing the tabs currently in use )

True.

I just realize, that suse yast could be good way to learn how to order
all the sections, groups, etc. I never felt lost with it.

Cheers,
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[Celeste Lyn Paul-4]

A competitive analysis is when you take systematically review similar  
or competing products to find differences between them, determine the  
strengths and weaknesses of your own product, and find ways to improve  
your product to at least match up to the competition.

In the case of system settings, it would be useful to see how  
competing products, such as windows' control panel and GNOME's control  
center, are similar or different, what we do better, what they do  
better, and what everyone is weak on.

Unfortunately my webserver died and so I don't have and example of a  
competitive review I could show you at the moment. Hopefully it will  
be up soon.

On Aug 8, 2009, at 2:32 PM, Michael Rudolph  
<michael.rudolph@...> wrote:

> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 21:16, Celeste Lyn Paul<celeste@...> wrote:
>> It would be a great starting point if someone did a competitive
>> analysis between Mac OSX, Windows, GNOME, and KDE and compared their
>> administrative organization tools.
>
> Hi Celeste,
>
> could you please elaborate on that? What would such a competitive
> analysis look like? And what would be its outcome?
>
> If you could provide some more information, I'd very much like to  
> help.
>
> Thanks,
>
> michael
> _______________________________________________
> kde-usability mailing list
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I have done some further changes to the proposed rearranging of System
Settings control modules, using information from the Sun Usability
study for the GNOME control center.

Please find it attached inline for comments.

-- Begin plan --

== Modules recommended for deprecation ==
Power Controls ( Conflicts with settings offered by Power managers
such as Powerdevil, which are more fully featured )

== Modules that could not be placed ==
Desktop Theme Details
 ( This is a single module, but doesn't fit in any category?? )

== Comments ==

There are multiple modules with closely overlapping names, such as the
three Keyboard Shortcut modules, perhaps these need to be renamed?

== Proposed Restructure ==

Display ( if merges carried out will contain only 3 modules )
  Multiple Monitors
  Size & Orientation ( possibly Multiple Monitors should be merged here? )
  Screen Saver
  Window Behaviour
  Window Specific ( this name is horrible, needs discussion. Perhaps
as tab on "Window Behaviour" module would be better )

Location
  Date & Time
  Country & Language ( one of Region or Country should be dropped from
name, Region isn't even selectable I think )
  Spell Checker

Application Behaviour
  Default Applications
  File Associations
  Device Actions
  Desktop Search
  Autostart
  System Notifications ( merge System Bell perhaps? )
  System Bell

Keyboard & Mouse
  Mouse
  Keyboard
  Keyboard Layout
  Custom Keyboard Shortcuts ( was Input Actions )
  Standard Keyboard Shortcuts
  Global Keyboard Shortcuts

Removable Devices
  Remote Controls
  Joystick
  Digital Camera
  Printers
  Device Discovery ( was Hardware )

Appearence
  Style
  Colours
  Icons
  Fonts
  Font Management ( perhaps integrate on tab with Fonts? )
  Splash Screen
  Emoticons

Desktop
  Window Decorations ( was Window )
  Desktop Effects
  Multiple Desktops
  Screen Edges
  Launch Feedback

Sharing
  Windows Shares ( was Samba )
  Network Credentials ( was Local Network Browsing )

Personal
  Paths
  Akonadi ( was Akonadi Configuration )
  Personal Resources ( was KDE Resources )

Security
  Password & User Account
  KDE Wallet

Power Management
  ( Top level module )

Multimedia ( All names below need discussion )
  Phonon ( was Multimedia )
  Audio CDs
  CDDB Retrieval

Networking
  Network Management
  Proxy
  Connection Preferences
  Service Discovery

General Administration
  Service Manager
  Session Manager
  K3b Setup
  Login Manager
  PolicyKit Authorisation

Accessibility
  ( This is currently one large module, and should be split up,
removing the tabs currently in use )
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[Jos Poortvliet-4]

I greatly appreciate this work. Currently, even I get lost in Systemsettings...

In general, I think all ideas you have below for merging stuff are +++

On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Ben Cooksley<sourtooth@...> wrote:

> I have done some further changes to the proposed rearranging of System
> Settings control modules, using information from the Sun Usability
> study for the GNOME control center.
>
> Please find it attached inline for comments.
>
> -- Begin plan --
>
> == Modules recommended for deprecation ==
> Power Controls ( Conflicts with settings offered by Power managers
> such as Powerdevil, which are more fully featured )
>
> == Modules that could not be placed ==
> Desktop Theme Details
>  ( This is a single module, but doesn't fit in any category?? )

just under theming stuff?

> == Comments ==
>
> There are multiple modules with closely overlapping names, such as the
> three Keyboard Shortcut modules, perhaps these need to be renamed?
>
> == Proposed Restructure ==
>
> Display ( if merges carried out will contain only 3 modules )
>  Multiple Monitors
>  Size & Orientation ( possibly Multiple Monitors should be merged here? )
>  Screen Saver
>  Window Behaviour
>  Window Specific ( this name is horrible, needs discussion. Perhaps
> as tab on "Window Behaviour" module would be better )

I don't see what window behavior is doing here...

> Location
>  Date & Time
>  Country & Language ( one of Region or Country should be dropped from
> name, Region isn't even selectable I think )
>  Spell Checker
>
> Application Behaviour
>  Default Applications
>  File Associations
>  Device Actions
>  Desktop Search
>  Autostart
>  System Notifications ( merge System Bell perhaps? )
>  System Bell
>
> Keyboard & Mouse
>  Mouse
>  Keyboard
>  Keyboard Layout
>  Custom Keyboard Shortcuts ( was Input Actions )
>  Standard Keyboard Shortcuts
>  Global Keyboard Shortcuts
>
> Removable Devices
>  Remote Controls
>  Joystick
>  Digital Camera
>  Printers
>  Device Discovery ( was Hardware )
>
> Appearence
>  Style
>  Colours
>  Icons
>  Fonts
>  Font Management ( perhaps integrate on tab with Fonts? )
>  Splash Screen
>  Emoticons
>
> Desktop
>  Window Decorations ( was Window )
>  Desktop Effects
>  Multiple Desktops
>  Screen Edges
>  Launch Feedback

This categorie combines window management stuff with look and feel and
usability. I'd move the window decorations and desktop effects to
appearance and call desktop effects 'window effects'. I'd move the
window management stuff from Display to here. Probably call this
categorie 'desktop behavior' then?!? But with that name it needs
Plasma config stuff as well (which currently can no longer be found in
the SystemSettings at all - imho wrong).

> Sharing
>  Windows Shares ( was Samba )
>  Network Credentials ( was Local Network Browsing )
>
> Personal
>  Paths
>  Akonadi ( was Akonadi Configuration )
>  Personal Resources ( was KDE Resources )
>
> Security
>  Password & User Account
>  KDE Wallet
>
> Power Management
>  ( Top level module )
>
> Multimedia ( All names below need discussion )
>  Phonon ( was Multimedia )
>  Audio CDs
>  CDDB Retrieval
>
> Networking
>  Network Management
>  Proxy
>  Connection Preferences
>  Service Discovery
>
> General Administration
>  Service Manager
>  Session Manager
>  K3b Setup
>  Login Manager
>  PolicyKit Authorisation
>
> Accessibility
>  ( This is currently one large module, and should be split up,
> removing the tabs currently in use )

I appreciate you're willing to do this as it's very hard and
(considering my comments above) always subjective ;-)
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ben Cooksley wrote:
>   Window Specific ( this name is horrible, needs discussion.
Perhaps
> as tab on "Window Behaviour" module would be better )
The configuration file is called "kwinrulesrc" so maybe call it
"Specific Window Rules"?

>   Custom Keyboard Shortcuts ( was Input Actions )
There's more than just Keyboard shortcuts in here now. Mouse
gestures and actions based on window focus and existence are
supported.

That's my 2¢ on those entries. Thanks for the work, systemsettings
is a maze sometimes (search helps, but isn't perfect).

- --Ben
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On 8/15/09, Jos Poortvliet <jospoortvliet@...> wrote:
> I greatly appreciate this work. Currently, even I get lost in
> Systemsettings...

Thanks Jos, I have also found that myself... I didn't even know the
mouse theme could be changed in 3.5....

>
> In general, I think all ideas you have below for merging stuff are +++
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Ben Cooksley<sourtooth@...> wrote:
>> I have done some further changes to the proposed rearranging of System
>> Settings control modules, using information from the Sun Usability
>> study for the GNOME control center.
>>
>> Please find it attached inline for comments.
>>
>> -- Begin plan --
>>
>> == Modules recommended for deprecation ==
>> Power Controls ( Conflicts with settings offered by Power managers
>> such as Powerdevil, which are more fully featured )
>>
>> == Modules that could not be placed ==
>> Desktop Theme Details
>>  ( This is a single module, but doesn't fit in any category?? )
>
> just under theming stuff?
>
>> == Comments ==
>>
>> There are multiple modules with closely overlapping names, such as the
>> three Keyboard Shortcut modules, perhaps these need to be renamed?
>>
>> == Proposed Restructure ==
>>
>> Display ( if merges carried out will contain only 3 modules )
>>  Multiple Monitors
>>  Size & Orientation ( possibly Multiple Monitors should be merged here? )
>>  Screen Saver
>>  Window Behaviour
>>  Window Specific ( this name is horrible, needs discussion. Perhaps
>> as tab on "Window Behaviour" module would be better )
>
> I don't see what window behavior is doing here...

Temporary location since I couldn't think of a better one at the time.

>
>> Location
>>  Date & Time
>>  Country & Language ( one of Region or Country should be dropped from
>> name, Region isn't even selectable I think )
>>  Spell Checker
>>
>> Application Behaviour
>>  Default Applications
>>  File Associations
>>  Device Actions
>>  Desktop Search
>>  Autostart
>>  System Notifications ( merge System Bell perhaps? )
>>  System Bell
>>
>> Keyboard & Mouse
>>  Mouse
>>  Keyboard
>>  Keyboard Layout
>>  Custom Keyboard Shortcuts ( was Input Actions )
>>  Standard Keyboard Shortcuts
>>  Global Keyboard Shortcuts
>>
>> Removable Devices
>>  Remote Controls
>>  Joystick
>>  Digital Camera
>>  Printers
>>  Device Discovery ( was Hardware )
>>
>> Appearence
>>  Style
>>  Colours
>>  Icons
>>  Fonts
>>  Font Management ( perhaps integrate on tab with Fonts? )
>>  Splash Screen
>>  Emoticons
>>
>> Desktop
>>  Window Decorations ( was Window )
>>  Desktop Effects
>>  Multiple Desktops
>>  Screen Edges
>>  Launch Feedback
>
> This categorie combines window management stuff with look and feel and
> usability. I'd move the window decorations and desktop effects to
> appearance and call desktop effects 'window effects'. I'd move the
> window management stuff from Display to here. Probably call this
> categorie 'desktop behavior' then?!? But with that name it needs
> Plasma config stuff as well (which currently can no longer be found in
> the SystemSettings at all - imho wrong).

That sounds like a good idea. I have included those changes ( along
with some others ) in a new revision I will be sending to the list
shortly.

We will see if we can convince the Plasma people to create a KCM for
4.4, at least for shared functionality such as Plasma theme, etc.

>
>> Sharing
>>  Windows Shares ( was Samba )
>>  Network Credentials ( was Local Network Browsing )
>>
>> Personal
>>  Paths
>>  Akonadi ( was Akonadi Configuration )
>>  Personal Resources ( was KDE Resources )
>>
>> Security
>>  Password & User Account
>>  KDE Wallet
>>
>> Power Management
>>  ( Top level module )
>>
>> Multimedia ( All names below need discussion )
>>  Phonon ( was Multimedia )
>>  Audio CDs
>>  CDDB Retrieval
>>
>> Networking
>>  Network Management
>>  Proxy
>>  Connection Preferences
>>  Service Discovery
>>
>> General Administration
>>  Service Manager
>>  Session Manager
>>  K3b Setup
>>  Login Manager
>>  PolicyKit Authorisation
>>
>> Accessibility
>>  ( This is currently one large module, and should be split up,
>> removing the tabs currently in use )
>
> I appreciate you're willing to do this as it's very hard and
> (considering my comments above) always subjective ;-)
> _______________________________________________
> kde-usability mailing list
> kde-usability@...
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
>

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On 8/15/09, Ben Boeckel <MathStuf@...> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Ben Cooksley wrote:
>>   Window Specific ( this name is horrible, needs discussion.
> Perhaps
>> as tab on "Window Behaviour" module would be better )
> The configuration file is called "kwinrulesrc" so maybe call it
> "Specific Window Rules"?

Yes, that sounds like a good idea, and is much better than the current
name at least.

>
>>   Custom Keyboard Shortcuts ( was Input Actions )
> There's more than just Keyboard shortcuts in here now. Mouse
> gestures and actions based on window focus and existence are
> supported.

Module renamed accordingly to "Custom Shortcuts" in new version.

>
> That's my 2¢ on those entries. Thanks for the work, systemsettings
> is a maze sometimes (search helps, but isn't perfect).
>
> - --Ben
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkqFt1kACgkQiPi+MRHG3qRq4ACgwrIkXA02KKIgHPXdxhaLnn0u
> nMEAnRN8fU9aqpPSv/gty3Wm7CWhtFBV
> =yZ5s
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> kde-usability mailing list
> kde-usability@...
> https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-usability
>

Thanks for the comments... new version will follow now

== Modules recommended for deprecation ==

         Power Controls ( Conflicts with settings offered by Power managers
such as Powerdevil, which are more fully featured )

== Modules that could not be placed ==


== Proposed Restructure ==

Display ( if merges carried out will contain only 3 modules )
        Multiple Monitors
        Size & Orientation ( possibly Multiple Monitors should be merged here? )
        Screen Saver

Location
        Date & Time
        Country & Language ( one of Region or Country should be dropped from
name, Region isn't even selectable I think )
        Spell Checker

Application Behaviour
        Default Applications
        File Associations
        Device Actions
        Desktop Search
        Autostart
        System Notifications ( merge System Bell perhaps? )
        System Bell

Keyboard & Mouse
        Mouse
        Keyboard
        Keyboard Layout
        Custom Shortcuts ( was Input Actions )
        Standard Keyboard Shortcuts
        Global Keyboard Shortcuts

Removable Devices
        Remote Controls
        Joystick
        Digital Camera
        Printers
        Device Discovery ( was Hardware )

Appearence
        Style
        Colours
        Icons
        Fonts
        Desktop Theming
        Font Management ( perhaps integrate on tab with Fonts? )
        Splash Screen
        Emoticons
        Window Decorations ( was Window )
        Window Effects

Desktop Behaviour
        Multiple Desktops
        Screen Edges
        Launch Feedback
        Window Behaviour
        Specific Window Rules ( was Window Specific )
        Paths

Sharing
        Windows Shares ( was Samba )
        Network Credentials ( was Local Network Browsing )

Security & Personal Information
        Password & User Account
        KDE Wallet
        Akonadi ( was Akonadi Configuration )
        Personal Resources ( was KDE Resources )

Power Management
        ( Top level module )

Multimedia ( All names below need discussion )
        Phonon ( was Multimedia )
        Audio CDs
        CDDB Retrieval

Networking
        Network Management
        Proxy
        Connection Preferences
        Service Discovery

General Administration
        Service Manager
        Session Manager
        K3b Setup
        Login Manager
        PolicyKit Authorisation

Accessibility
        ( This is currently one large module, and should be split up removing
the tabs currently in use )
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On 8/9/09, Craig Drummond <Craig.Drummond@...> wrote:

>
>> > Appearence
>> >  Style
>> >  Colours
>> >  Icons
>> >  Fonts
>> >  Font Management ( perhaps integrate on tab with Fonts? )
>
> I'd be happy to do that. However, the problem is that when you install a
> font
> it is not available until after an application has been restarted - as,
> AFAIK,
> there is no way to ask Qt to rebuild its font database. This leads to the
> fonts kcm not being able to see the newly installed fonts - which might look
> odd if it is the same module as the installer/manager.

Wouldn't a reasonable behaviour for a user to install then configure
that Font to be used? I can see this as a use case. Would this just
make a current bug more visible or would it create a new one?

>
> Craig.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

Ben
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ping??
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If no one has any further comments, I would like to submit this to
Core Devel for further, final commentary before being implemented. I
will do this in a weeks time.
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