System vs. Virtual users
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System vs. Virtual users
by Alexander Erameh
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Hi, Are there any limits to the number of virtual users one can use
in a courier site? Is a hundred virtual users too much? Are there any disadvantages
in using virtual users only? Alexander
------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Bowie Bailey
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Alexander Hotmail wrote:
> > Hi, > > Are there any limits to the number of virtual users one can use in a > courier site? Is a hundred virtual users too much? Are there any > disadvantages in using virtual users only? > I currently have well over 100 virtual users in a userdb setup with no problems. The limitation is not Courier, but the backend for the authentication. Userdb is the simplest method, but it is also the least efficient. For a couple hundred users, it should be ok. If you are going to several hundred or more, you may want to use SQL or LDAP authentication instead. They should be able to handle thousands of users with no problems. I don't see any disadvantages to using virtual users. Actually, with that many users, it would be more difficult to NOT make them virtual. -- Bowie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Dino Ciuffetti-2
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>> Are there any limits to the number of virtual users one can use in a >> courier site? Is a hundred virtual users too much? Are there any >> disadvantages in using virtual users only? > I don't see any disadvantages to using virtual users. Actually, with that > many users, it would be more difficult to NOT make them virtual. I'm using >4k virtual accounts x 10 domains using ldap authentication with no problems. There is any disvantage in using virtual users. Courier MTA rocks!! -- Dino Ciuffetti Linux System Administrator and Architect ----------------- TuxWeb S.r.l. - InfoServices EveryWhere - http://www.tuxweb.it Soluzioni informatiche, sviluppo, applicazioni web, consulenze sistemistiche e su prodotti opensource, corsi Linux e molto altro ancora! Per maggiori informazioni scrivi a info@.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Alexander Erameh
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Thanks a lot Bowie.
I have never regretted joining the Courier users list. Alexander -----Original Message----- From: Bowie Bailey [mailto:Bowie_Bailey@...] Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 5:02 PM To: Alexander Hotmail; Courier-Users Subject: Re: [courier-users] System vs. Virtual users Keep the conversation on the list please... I have a single UID/GID that I use for all of the virtual users. You could use different UIDs for different domains or something like that, but it just adds more complexity without giving any benefit that I can see. Bowie Alexander Hotmail wrote: > Thanks. > Do all your virtual users use the same UID and GID? Or do you have several > system users which the virtual users are linked to? > > Alexander > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bowie Bailey [mailto:Bowie_Bailey@...] > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 3:24 PM > To: courier-users@... > Subject: Re: [courier-users] System vs. Virtual users > > Alexander Hotmail wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Are there any limits to the number of virtual users one can use in a >> courier site? Is a hundred virtual users too much? Are there any >> disadvantages in using virtual users only? >> >> > > I currently have well over 100 virtual users in a userdb setup with no > problems. The limitation is not Courier, but the backend for the > authentication. Userdb is the simplest method, but it is also the least > efficient. For a couple hundred users, it should be ok. If you are > going to several hundred or more, you may want to use SQL or LDAP > authentication instead. They should be able to handle thousands of > users with no problems. > > I don't see any disadvantages to using virtual users. Actually, with > that many users, it would be more difficult to NOT make them virtual. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Ale2008
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Bowie Bailey wrote:
> Userdb is the simplest method, but it is also the least efficient. Is it? I thought the advantage of using more blown up back-ends consisted in having more functionalities, not performance. Weren't there some benchmarks on that? I cannot find them... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Bowie Bailey
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Alessandro Vesely wrote:
> Bowie Bailey wrote: > >> Userdb is the simplest method, but it is also the least efficient. >> > > Is it? I thought the advantage of using more blown up back-ends > consisted in having more functionalities, not performance. Weren't > there some benchmarks on that? I cannot find them... > Actually, according to the docs, userdb can scale to thousands of users. http://www.courier-mta.org/authlib/README_authlib.html#userdbcomplex So maybe you are right about functionality being a bigger reason to switch. However, I think userdb has all the functionality needed for most installations. -- Bowie ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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[SPAM] Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Joseph C. Lininger
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256 > Are there any limits to the number of virtual users one can use in a courier site? > Is a hundred virtual users too much? Courier itself doesn't have any limits on how many virtual users you can have. The only limitations are those imposed by what ever authentication back-end you choose. If you use SQL or LDAP to store user information, you can easily support thousands of users with no trouble. A hundred virtual users is nothing. You can use userdb, SQL, or LDAP with no trouble at all. If you have more than a couple hundred users, then don't use userdb. Instead use SQL or LDAP. > Are there any disadvantages in using virtual > users only? In general, no. In fact, if you've got multiple virtual domains you want to support virtual users are better in every respect. I personally never use system accounts when configuring a mail server. I know that they are applicable sometimes, but not for anything I use Courier for. - -- Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who actually do. Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm@...> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJK3eQYAAoJEMh8jNraUiwqh8gH/2dne67QjUKu/1aAKicTn3It jGg6n2PW2UQwH95qU+NZhjEKGPu9b4rYEPazsDAwVzdM6Oubhme/cN3kvL2YoH9l /uGAud4FHTN6RR8vpRlzP5CnOakrMlJwKHpWFDpTN3BXdNWH+dWM8Hkk7SjDTaYU vic5i8QHfG47u0ERr0wCU/xT+Iwkw+aLCysCwNgMvZrE+8UBgekVOJUJCgRZAkF/ xqGGlIzaxK/Fa7wx35uI8se1qTmO3H76I2w7GV5pYpwlXB9XKYeKlduOulAAcjxR 6yh8qOPcW4NQHAAToaFqT+rV7yG5p5QmJciSk8S8P2K28tCa06/bGPEV+q7JgmQ= =kpOT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Joseph C. Lininger
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256 > Is it? I thought the advantage of using more blown up back-ends > consisted in having more functionalities, not performance. The userdb module uses berkley db or gdbm databases for authentication. These are good for smaller setups, less than a few hundred users. However, as these databases get large they will decrease in performance. Solutions like mysql and openldap are designed to handle very large databases, and they don't degrade nearly as badly as your database grows. There is also the fact that it is more efficient to maintain a large list of users with something like SQL or LDAP. For one it's easy to automate. For two you don't have to rebuild the entire database when ever you make a change. - -- Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who actually do. Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm@...> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJK3eWjAAoJEMh8jNraUiwqcRQH/jDheZs4eGRm/W8JiSrZk1Pr y+tqx7nkmo6CaxRm8yzHT5+oeYYmzrofj+gn2VaNnPACoZ3SSnhOKtgYjICLKdfr 5aBSV89IDrxgVH29+jNpu/LW2lxVJRcP/qfzFUY0LtDPmwT8PkFnLVN+F7esCH1s FyPKQHH0n7I0IHMTrUwQfcHwnJf63zH+8lFQ/g4q3YtpYtjSUyAZ0YZVAPObJ2rD S967Qn5+A0Z+0yvgBu2JBtTWkED56m5MIGXV7JLhuyqqxGYu7pRduqLF0a3iVBjh snoH9ud2Kw25w+NWM8qZp2mYl1YZoCyBWWwZck8eZ0THuM0Mbk2TWF4VKJuwZRY= =AncM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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Re: [SPAM] Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Lindsay Haisley-3
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On Tue, 2009-10-20 at 10:23 -0600, Joseph C. Lininger wrote:
> Courier itself doesn't have any limits on how many virtual users you can > have. The only limitations are those imposed by what ever authentication > back-end you choose. If you use SQL or LDAP to store user information, > you can easily support thousands of users with no trouble. It's nearly trivial to set up virtual users in Courier using MySQL as your user database. This dovetails nicely if you want to integrate SpamAssassin as a 3rd party spam filter and allow per-mailbox configuration of spam options. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Never expect the people who caused a problem FMP Computer Services | to solve it." - Albert Einstein 512-259-1190 | http://www.fmp.com | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Ale2008
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Joseph C. Lininger wrote:
>> Is it? I thought the advantage of using more blown up back-ends >> consisted in having more functionalities, not performance. > > The userdb module uses berkley db or gdbm databases for authentication. > These are good for smaller setups, less than a few hundred users. Berkley DB is one of the most powerful storage engines around. It can "only" store up to 256 terabytes of data on a single table, if you call that "few"... http://www.oracle.com/technology/documentation/berkeley-db/db/programmer_reference/am_misc_dbsizes.html > However, as these databases get large they will decrease in performance. Logarithmically on the number of keys. It will look roughly constant to most users. > Solutions like mysql and openldap are designed to handle very large > databases, and they don't degrade nearly as badly as your database > grows. MySQL has traditionally allowed BDB as a possible storage engine. I'm not familiar with OpenLDAP, but I think it also uses BerkleyDB as a backend. In both cases, I think the performance is comparable with that of alternative settings. At any rate, access to indexed tables is orders of magnitude better than the linear access time implied by plain text files such as /etc/passwd for system users. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Gordon Messmer
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On 10/19/2009 07:23 AM, Bowie Bailey wrote:
> > I don't see any disadvantages to using virtual users. Actually, with > that many users, it would be more difficult to NOT make them virtual. > I don't think that's strictly true. You should be able to use system users with an LDAP backend as well, without a tremendous amount of overhead. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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[SPAM] Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Joseph C. Lininger
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256 Good morning, > Berkley DB is one of the most powerful storage engines around. It > can "only" store up to 256 terabytes of data on a single table, if > you call that "few"... I wasn't very specific in my statements. That's my fault, and I apologize. What I should have said is that these databases become less efficient when used as constant databases, the way userdb uses them. IN particular, the rebuild operation and user management operations become unwieldy for anything other than a small to medium setup. > MySQL has traditionally allowed BDB as a possible storage engine. > I'm not familiar with OpenLDAP, but I think it also uses BerkleyDB > as a backend. In both cases, I think the performance is comparable > with that of alternative settings. Again, I agree. It's a question of me failing to be specific enough. It's the constant database property that causes the problems for larger setups. As a side note, bdb has been deprecated in mysql. > At any rate, access to indexed tables is orders of magnitude better > than the linear access time implied by plain text files such as > /etc/passwd for system users. Absolutely true. There is a small amount of overhead involved with initializing and performing a lookup, but in nearly all cases it's faster than a lookup in a flat file. - -- Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who actually do. Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm@...> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJK4eUlAAoJEMh8jNraUiwqpWwH/2Gc/fP5SX8SUjfiw9qpr1Vd gE+sOQPQpudToruLk8Z8S5/MbiKDw1WMeMd5bvj45aZC8RoVBWNHJTIaX6jK+guR YWkcFtacTqIiQTNZTAS37tV1I5rXbgHbfbsaAiNJ+O79M3gt8Ny2GFjiXwOUXhBr LQNTvAJCJjrSKmukhlRaox3MRY28FfJeotChijuAz3VJh8rZjEwR/NBFqXjxUTYs dHPGmQJsYbzv4Nup5EtFYkleE+MY1k8pj1bJSVaJsj2oWZ+RsMLYH2UamwoOCg2G fMDLRsCaJ4b5cldq5An+7M6ms+NtSq/OYPv3RfDUJ+lhzxd9aPwtVhgr1KYH2zM= =0cUI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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Re: [SPAM] Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Ale2008
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Joseph C. Lininger wrote:
>> Berkley DB is one of the most powerful storage engines around. It >> can "only" store up to 256 terabytes of data on a single table, if >> you call that "few"... > > I wasn't very specific in my statements. That's my fault, and I > apologize. What I should have said is that these databases become less > efficient when used as constant databases, the way userdb uses them. IN > particular, the rebuild operation and user management operations become > unwieldy for anything other than a small to medium setup. I had arbitrarily assumed that users are not altered very often. You're right, courier's implementation has sought compatibility with various flavors of db, and thus is unable to leverage the specific features of any. > As a side note, bdb has been deprecated in mysql. I never learned whether that was a political or technical issue. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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[SPAM] Re: [SPAM] Re: System vs. Virtual users
by Joseph C. Lininger
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256 > I never learned whether that was a political or technical issue. Hmmm, that's a good question. I can think of only one technical reason they may have chosen to remove it. That would be that the feature set it offers is nearly the same set as that offered by the inodb storage engine. They kept it around for quite a while in spite of that though since the feature sets are not identicle, so I couldn't say why now they've decided to remove it. - -- Those of you who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who actually do. Joseph C. Lininger, <jbahm@...> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJK5HElAAoJEMh8jNraUiwq2QwIALNxvq5zzQfTOqC5FulL6vDa QG+3gXeFq89OkRktbeg9WmPVsEA+qsdAoiVuD3Vntc2o6YM6xhVN7401HRAXlDlG /CdpdudAZP/ghGhQd5kM4cXgN7MoRSh+ZnNiH/SFw78tYYx5y0Te20l64E0AaYMQ DHj0UoVANnjX3rUR9Y7n+lS4+Lwf0ZbtLNRHeE0pCvoMu40m1jD3pFF7yY4PAvut 3zExt1b6q0m3ccVB2IU90Et/DFFKbyLM2UTOSlV1JS3IW5RueU4XLXxt7UnL5Xxy FIpFEd+TEqY/14w95Sq0RTH/cvK/txtQLCE4faduMYvFBx4jCfncYGe/o3l8DyU= =Q758 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Come build with us! The BlackBerry(R) Developer Conference in SF, CA is the only developer event you need to attend this year. Jumpstart your developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and stay ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/devconference _______________________________________________ courier-users mailing list courier-users@... Unsubscribe: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/courier-users |
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