The Goodies projects

[Mike Massonnet]

Hi,

Some goodies didn't see any release for over a year. Since that many
translations have been added and updated, it would be worth that some sort of
"maintainance team" had the right to push new releases for some of them.

I made up a little list[1] a while ago with active projects that are worth
translating as it is a tough job to translate them all and that this can be a
real slow down for new translators.

[1] http://i18n.xfce.org/wiki/prioritize

On another note, I hope we can discuss the fact that Goodies do not belong to
the maintainers. It's part of the Xfce project and some people should be
allowed to do maintaince tasks with the projects.

We have some projects that are indirectly orphaned that no one is maintaining
anymore. In this case some people should be allowed to fix various bugs or
take over it without having to ask for aknowlegments.

Mike
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[Diego Ongaro-2]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 08:00, Mike Massonnet<mmassonnet@...> wrote:
> Some goodies didn't see any release for over a year. Since that many
> translations have been added and updated, it would be worth that some sort of
> "maintainance team" had the right to push new releases for some of them.

You're cutting out giving the project's maintainer a chance.
Step 1: Identify projects that should do a release.
Step 2: Email the maintainer, politely asking them to do so.
Step 3. Wait.
Step 4. If the maintainer doesn't respond or responds with "too busy,
you do it", then let someone else do a release.

This would also make more sense after the git migration, as
maintainers can more easily keep their projects in a release-ready
state.

-Diego
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[Colin Leroy-2]

On 05 July 2009 at 15h07, Mike Massonnet wrote:

Hi,

> On another note, I hope we can discuss the fact that Goodies do not
> belong to the maintainers. It's part of the Xfce project and some
> people should be allowed to do maintaince tasks with the projects.

Well, one-man shows are always hard to keep running after a few years.
In my opinion, any healthy project should have at least two people with
"admin" rights, in case a maintainer "falls off the planet".

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[Brian J. Tarricone-3]

On 07/05/2009 06:00 AM, Mike Massonnet wrote:

> On another note, I hope we can discuss the fact that Goodies do not belong to
> the maintainers.

Very much disagree.  They do indeed belong completely to the maintainers.

+1 for what Diego said.  If you want to take over maintainership of a
project or otherwise declare it orphaned or abandonware, you need to
contact the maintainer individually and give him/her a good chance to
respond (I'd say 3-4 weeks, with maybe a reminder email midway through).

If you don't get a response, then you create a branch for current trunk
named with the former maintainer's name and do what you want with trunk.

I certainly agree that we probably have a bunch of orphaned projects,
and it's a shame that some of them are pretty good quality projects
except for a few nagging bugs here and there that it would be nice to
fix, and it would be nice to do new releases.  But suggesting that the
goodies somehow don't "belong" to their original authors is just
ridiculous and insulting to the original authors.

        -brian
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[Ali Abdallah-2]

Mike Massonnet wrote:
>
> We have some projects that are indirectly orphaned that no one is maintaining
> anymore. In this case some people should be allowed to fix various bugs or
> take over it without having to ask for aknowlegments.
>  

I think it is a very good idea to have a page on the goodies website
contains a small table with each module and its old maintainer + current
maintainer of empty if there is no one + status, so people wishing to
help can start from the abandoned projects. I sent this proposal to
Jannis already few weeks ago but so far didn't get a reply i believe he
is busy and i didn't have much time to follow up.

Another thing also, the news page on the goodies project contains
out-dated information, perhaps this can be implemented to be
automatically done when a goody is released with release manager.

Cheers,
Ali.

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[Brian J. Tarricone-3]

On 07/05/2009 01:45 PM, Ali Abdallah wrote:

> I think it is a very good idea to have a page on the goodies website
> contains a small table with each module and its old maintainer + current
> maintainer of empty if there is no one + status, so people wishing to
> help can start from the abandoned projects.

Yes, good idea.  And I think a prerequisite for getting a new module
added to the goodies repo should be to have *already* entered this
information.

        -brian
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[Jannis Pohlmann-3]

On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:56:35 -0700
"Brian J. Tarricone" <brian@...> wrote:

> On 07/05/2009 01:45 PM, Ali Abdallah wrote:
>
> > I think it is a very good idea to have a page on the goodies website
> > contains a small table with each module and its old maintainer +
> > current maintainer of empty if there is no one + status, so people
> > wishing to help can start from the abandoned projects.
>
> Yes, good idea.  And I think a prerequisite for getting a new module
> added to the goodies repo should be to have *already* entered this
> information.

Yeah, this could be very helpful. I think we should include information
like the current and previous maintainer, last release date and version
and probably something more vague like a status (in-development,
feature-complete, stuff like that). Actually, I've had this idea almost
a year ago but I never mentioned it anywhere ;)

If someone wants to create this, please go ahead. It should be easily
reachable from the goodies frontpage.

  - Jannis


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[Ali Abdallah-2]

Jannis Pohlmann wrote:
> If someone wants to create this, please go ahead. It should be easily
> reachable from the goodies frontpage.
>  

I wanna do that, of course if no one is going to do it, but it seems
that i don't have enough permission.
>   - Jannis
>  

Cheers,
Ali.


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[Mike Massonnet-4]

Le dimanche 05 juillet 2009 21:49:37, Brian J. Tarricone a écrit :

> On 07/05/2009 06:00 AM, Mike Massonnet wrote:
> > On another note, I hope we can discuss the fact that Goodies do not
> > belong to the maintainers.
>
> Very much disagree.  They do indeed belong completely to the maintainers.
>
> +1 for what Diego said.  If you want to take over maintainership of a
> project or otherwise declare it orphaned or abandonware, you need to
> contact the maintainer individually and give him/her a good chance to
> respond (I'd say 3-4 weeks, with maybe a reminder email midway through).

This is the current state of getting maintainance right over a project.
Keeping it this way is OK, and the wiki page Ali mentions will very much be
encouraging.

However regarding the translations, I don't want that someone needs to take
maintainance rights as it is only about bumping the release and tagging. If it
is OK, after the wiki page is set up, I will mail each individuals of the
projects that didn't see a release for long enough, and let them know that I'm
going to make a new release for the translations in the coming 2 weeks.

Mike

> If you don't get a response, then you create a branch for current trunk
> named with the former maintainer's name and do what you want with trunk.
>
> I certainly agree that we probably have a bunch of orphaned projects,
> and it's a shame that some of them are pretty good quality projects
> except for a few nagging bugs here and there that it would be nice to
> fix, and it would be nice to do new releases.  But suggesting that the
> goodies somehow don't "belong" to their original authors is just
> ridiculous and insulting to the original authors.
>
> -brian

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[Mike Massonnet-4]

Le lundi 06 juillet 2009 08:26:42, Ali Abdallah a écrit :
> Jannis Pohlmann wrote:
> > If someone wants to create this, please go ahead. It should be easily
> > reachable from the goodies frontpage.
>
> I wanna do that, of course if no one is going to do it, but it seems
> that i don't have enough permission.

I had say put it into wiki.xfce.org and than we link to it from
goodies.xfce.org. We can always move it later, but actually I think it would
be more visible this way and we already have a Goodies category in the
frontpage of the wiki.

Mike

> >   - Jannis
>
> Cheers,
> Ali.

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[Ali Abdallah-2]

Mike Massonnet wrote:

> Le lundi 06 juillet 2009 08:26:42, Ali Abdallah a écrit :
>  
>> Jannis Pohlmann wrote:
>>    
>>> If someone wants to create this, please go ahead. It should be easily
>>> reachable from the goodies frontpage.
>>>      
>> I wanna do that, of course if no one is going to do it, but it seems
>> that i don't have enough permission.
>>    
>
> I had say put it into wiki.xfce.org and than we link to it from
> goodies.xfce.org. We can always move it later, but actually I think it would
> be more visible this way and we already have a Goodies category in the
> frontpage of the wiki.
>  

I have the text file for dokuwiki already made with modules name (which
are internal links, need change them if the decision is to put them on
the Xfce wiki), it makes more sense for me to put it on the goodies
project, don't you think?

> Mike
>  

Cheers,
Ali.
>
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[Diego Ongaro-2]

Mike Massonnet wrote:

> Le dimanche 05 juillet 2009 21:49:37, Brian J. Tarricone a écrit :
>> On 07/05/2009 06:00 AM, Mike Massonnet wrote:
>>> On another note, I hope we can discuss the fact that Goodies do not
>>> belong to the maintainers.
>> Very much disagree.  They do indeed belong completely to the maintainers.
>>
>> +1 for what Diego said.  If you want to take over maintainership of a
>> project or otherwise declare it orphaned or abandonware, you need to
>> contact the maintainer individually and give him/her a good chance to
>> respond (I'd say 3-4 weeks, with maybe a reminder email midway through).
>
> This is the current state of getting maintainance right over a project.
> Keeping it this way is OK, and the wiki page Ali mentions will very much be
> encouraging.
>
> However regarding the translations, I don't want that someone needs to take
> maintainance rights as it is only about bumping the release and tagging. If it
> is OK, after the wiki page is set up, I will mail each individuals of the
> projects that didn't see a release for long enough, and let them know that I'm
> going to make a new release for the translations in the coming 2 weeks.

You say you're "going to make a new release for the translations", but
really you'd be releasing whatever's in trunk. It's an important
difference to note, particularly if trunk is not in such a releasable state.

-Diego
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[Mike Massonnet-4]

Le lundi 06 juillet 2009 11:32:47, Ali Abdallah a écrit :

> Mike Massonnet wrote:
> > Le lundi 06 juillet 2009 08:26:42, Ali Abdallah a écrit :
> >> Jannis Pohlmann wrote:
> >>> If someone wants to create this, please go ahead. It should be easily
> >>> reachable from the goodies frontpage.
> >>
> >> I wanna do that, of course if no one is going to do it, but it seems
> >> that i don't have enough permission.
> >
> > I had say put it into wiki.xfce.org and than we link to it from
> > goodies.xfce.org. We can always move it later, but actually I think it
> > would be more visible this way and we already have a Goodies category in
> > the frontpage of the wiki.
>
> I have the text file for dokuwiki already made with modules name (which
> are internal links, need change them if the decision is to put them on
> the Xfce wiki), it makes more sense for me to put it on the goodies
> project, don't you think?

If you want my opinion either placeholder is equal. We can link from wiki to
goodies, or the opposite.

> > Mike
>
> Cheers,
> Ali.

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[Mike Massonnet-4]

Le lundi 06 juillet 2009 12:34:00, Diego Ongaro a écrit :

> Mike Massonnet wrote:
> > Le dimanche 05 juillet 2009 21:49:37, Brian J. Tarricone a écrit :
> >> On 07/05/2009 06:00 AM, Mike Massonnet wrote:
> >>> On another note, I hope we can discuss the fact that Goodies do not
> >>> belong to the maintainers.
> >>
> >> Very much disagree.  They do indeed belong completely to the
> >> maintainers.
> >>
> >> +1 for what Diego said.  If you want to take over maintainership of a
> >> project or otherwise declare it orphaned or abandonware, you need to
> >> contact the maintainer individually and give him/her a good chance to
> >> respond (I'd say 3-4 weeks, with maybe a reminder email midway through).
> >
> > This is the current state of getting maintainance right over a project.
> > Keeping it this way is OK, and the wiki page Ali mentions will very much
> > be encouraging.
> >
> > However regarding the translations, I don't want that someone needs to
> > take maintainance rights as it is only about bumping the release and
> > tagging. If it is OK, after the wiki page is set up, I will mail each
> > individuals of the projects that didn't see a release for long enough,
> > and let them know that I'm going to make a new release for the
> > translations in the coming 2 weeks.
>
> You say you're "going to make a new release for the translations", but
> really you'd be releasing whatever's in trunk. It's an important
> difference to note, particularly if trunk is not in such a releasable
> state.

I didn't even start to dig into the projects, to know which one can be
released.

Mike

> -Diego
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[Ali Abdallah-2]

Jannis Pohlmann wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:56:35 -0700
> "Brian J. Tarricone" <brian@...> wrote:
>
>  
>> On 07/05/2009 01:45 PM, Ali Abdallah wrote:
>>
>>    
>>> I think it is a very good idea to have a page on the goodies website
>>> contains a small table with each module and its old maintainer +
>>> current maintainer of empty if there is no one + status, so people
>>> wishing to help can start from the abandoned projects.
>>>      
>> Yes, good idea.  And I think a prerequisite for getting a new module
>> added to the goodies repo should be to have *already* entered this
>> information.
>>    
>
> Yeah, this could be very helpful. I think we should include information
> like the current and previous maintainer, last release date and version
> and probably something more vague like a status (in-development,
> feature-complete, stuff like that). Actually, I've had this idea almost
> a year ago but I never mentioned it anywhere ;)
>
> If someone wants to create this, please go ahead. It should be easily
> reachable from the goodies frontpage.
>  

I have created the page on the goodies wiki [1], it contains all goodies
project (applications, panel-plugin, thunar-plugin+ bindings), please
update your module information.

Probably, Mike and I can share the work of contacting each module
maintainer to figure out all the modules status.

Cheers and thanks,
Ali.

[1] http://goodies.xfce.org/goodies-maintainers


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[Landry Breuil-4]

On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Ali Abdallah<aliov@...> wrote:

> Jannis Pohlmann wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 05 Jul 2009 14:56:35 -0700
>> "Brian J. Tarricone" <brian@...> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On 07/05/2009 01:45 PM, Ali Abdallah wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think it is a very good idea to have a page on the goodies website
>>>> contains a small table with each module and its old maintainer +
>>>> current maintainer of empty if there is no one + status, so people
>>>> wishing to help can start from the abandoned projects.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, good idea.  And I think a prerequisite for getting a new module
>>> added to the goodies repo should be to have *already* entered this
>>> information.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, this could be very helpful. I think we should include information
>> like the current and previous maintainer, last release date and version
>> and probably something more vague like a status (in-development,
>> feature-complete, stuff like that). Actually, I've had this idea almost
>> a year ago but I never mentioned it anywhere ;)
>>
>> If someone wants to create this, please go ahead. It should be easily
>> reachable from the goodies frontpage.
>>
>
> I have created the page on the goodies wiki [1], it contains all goodies
> project (applications, panel-plugin, thunar-plugin+ bindings), please update
> your module information.
>
> Probably, Mike and I can share the work of contacting each module maintainer
> to figure out all the modules status.

I added the info about the modules i made maintenance releases
recently - and as the mpc plugin developer, i'm aware that my trunk/
isn't in a perfect shape, i have some code for it before it deserves a
release (and it deserves one at least for the ton of translation
updates.)

Landry
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[Mike Massonnet-4]

Le lundi 06 juillet 2009 15:38:15, Ali Abdallah a écrit :
> I have created the page on the goodies wiki [1], it contains all goodies
> project (applications, panel-plugin, thunar-plugin+ bindings), please
> update your module information.
>
> Probably, Mike and I can share the work of contacting each module
> maintainer to figure out all the modules status.

Ok, very nice work.

> Cheers and thanks,
> Ali.
>
> [1] http://goodies.xfce.org/goodies-maintainers

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[Mike Massonnet-4]

Le lundi 06 juillet 2009 22:51:35, vous avez écrit :

> Le lundi 06 juillet 2009 15:38:15, Ali Abdallah a écrit :
> > I have created the page on the goodies wiki [1], it contains all goodies
> > project (applications, panel-plugin, thunar-plugin+ bindings), please
> > update your module information.
> >
> > Probably, Mike and I can share the work of contacting each module
> > maintainer to figure out all the modules status.
>
> Ok, very nice work.
>
> > Cheers and thanks,
> > Ali.
> >
> > [1] http://goodies.xfce.org/goodies-maintainers

I just added my projects. I guess we can wait until end of July to consider
the others projects as inactive and mark them ourselves.

About the Old/Current maintainer, I think that the Old maintainer is not an
interesting information and only Current is relevant. Now if the "current"
maintainer marks the project as inactive s-he can still leave his contact
address there so they can be contacted by people wishing to contribute.

Also on the Status column I think we only need the two values Active or
Inactive. And there is no need to mark a project as being maintained when it
actually didn't get anything done on it for months. This may frighten less
those people looking for little pet projects...

If you are OK with all of this I'm gonna update the columns.

I'm gonna assemble the list of current maintainers for the unmarked projects
so we can contact them directly.

Mike
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[Ali Abdallah-2]

Mike Massonnet wrote:

> Le lundi 06 juillet 2009 22:51:35, vous avez écrit :
>  
>> Le lundi 06 juillet 2009 15:38:15, Ali Abdallah a écrit :
>>    
>>> I have created the page on the goodies wiki [1], it contains all goodies
>>> project (applications, panel-plugin, thunar-plugin+ bindings), please
>>> update your module information.
>>>
>>> Probably, Mike and I can share the work of contacting each module
>>> maintainer to figure out all the modules status.
>>>      
>> Ok, very nice work.
>>
>>    
>>> Cheers and thanks,
>>> Ali.
>>>
>>> [1] http://goodies.xfce.org/goodies-maintainers
>>>      
>
> I just added my projects. I guess we can wait until end of July to consider
> the others projects as inactive and mark them ourselves.
>  

I agree.

> About the Old/Current maintainer, I think that the Old maintainer is not an
> interesting information and only Current is relevant. Now if the "current"
> maintainer marks the project as inactive s-he can still leave his contact
> address there so they can be contacted by people wishing to contribute.
>
> Also on the Status column I think we only need the two values Active or
> Inactive. And there is no need to mark a project as being maintained when it
> actually didn't get anything done on it for months. This may frighten less
> those people looking for little pet projects...
>
> If you are OK with all of this I'm gonna update the columns.
>  

For me it is okay, go ahead if you have time, this will make the table
more clean and contains what we actually want.

> I'm gonna assemble the list of current maintainers for the unmarked projects
> so we can contact them directly.
>
> Mike
>  

Cheers,
Ali.

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[Brian J. Tarricone-3]

On 2009/07/06 06:38, Ali Abdallah wrote:
>
> I have created the page on the goodies wiki [1], it contains all goodies
> project (applications, panel-plugin, thunar-plugin+ bindings), please
> update your module information.
 >
> [1] http://goodies.xfce.org/goodies-maintainers

Added/updated my stuff.

        -b

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