The Proposed Soundtrack Guideline

[gnu_andrew]

http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Soundtrack_Style

Why are releases such as
http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=91478 using this
proposed guideline that was never accepted?

I've started http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=10898308 to
gauge reaction on correcting this.  I haven't yet been given a good
reason why we would want the composer to be the artist of a track, but
you can see plenty of points for using the performer in the discussion
on the edit, including consistency with the majority of MB releases.
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Andrew :-)

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[Paul C. Bryan]

I think this should be discussed in the be mb-style list?

On Mon, 2009-07-13 at 14:17 +0100, Andrew John Hughes wrote:

> http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Soundtrack_Style
>
> Why are releases such as
> http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=91478 using this
> proposed guideline that was never accepted?
>
> I've started http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=10898308 to
> gauge reaction on correcting this.  I haven't yet been given a good
> reason why we would want the composer to be the artist of a track, but
> you can see plenty of points for using the performer in the discussion
> on the edit, including consistency with the majority of MB releases.

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[Chad Wilson-2]

Additionally, edits are the wrong place to start style debates on issues
of that kind of importance. There are many proposed guidelines which,
while disputed, are still aligned to the editing/voting behaviour and
general liking of the majority of the community. Remember that MB Style
Guideline setting works based on consensus-building, yet voting does
not. This means that for extended periods the majority can edit and vote
in direction A even if the proposed guideline has no chance of passing
due to a few loud noises. The fact that it is still "proposed" does not
necessarily mean that the opposite of that guideline holds true, in my
experience.

C'est la vie at MB, it seems.

Chad

Paul C. Bryan wrote:

> I think this should be discussed in the be mb-style list?
>
> On Mon, 2009-07-13 at 14:17 +0100, Andrew John Hughes wrote:
>  
>> http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Soundtrack_Style
>>
>> Why are releases such as
>> http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=91478 using this
>> proposed guideline that was never accepted?
>>
>> I've started http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=10898308 to
>> gauge reaction on correcting this.  I haven't yet been given a good
>> reason why we would want the composer to be the artist of a track, but
>> you can see plenty of points for using the performer in the discussion
>> on the edit, including consistency with the majority of MB releases.
>>    
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> MusicBrainz-users mailing list
> MusicBrainz-users@...
> http://lists.musicbrainz.org/mailman/listinfo/musicbrainz-users
>
>  

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[Brian Schweitzer]

On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Andrew John Hughes <gnu_andrew@...> wrote:

http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Soundtrack_Style

Why are releases such as
http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=91478 using this
proposed guideline that was never accepted?

I've started http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=10898308 to
gauge reaction on correcting this.  I haven't yet been given a good
reason why we would want the composer to be the artist of a track, but
you can see plenty of points for using the performer in the discussion
on the edit, including consistency with the majority of MB releases.

Andrew,

I agree that this should be discussed on the style list, not users.  But let me correct the history here.  SoundtrackStyle is not a "proposed guideline that was never accepted".  True, today, it is a proposal.  However, that has not always been the case.

SoundtrackStyle was, at one point, an official guideline.  The practice at the time was, when a guideline was being changed, to edit it in place, change that draft from "official" to "proposed", and then debate it in the wiki and on the style list.  However, in all the years since, every time we've discussed trying to make that guideline official, we've never managed to get past the RFV stage such that everyone was happy with the finalized guideline.  Unfortunately, that original, official, version was during the first wiki code (the one prior to moinmoin), and that edit history is unavailable; to the best of my knowledge, noone has a copy of that original official guideline.

However, the proper way to propose changing a guuideline isn't to edit first, and see if the edit passes.  This may be a "proposal", but it was official, this point was part of that official guideline, and the proposal has stood for over 5 years; changing it via  That's the point of the style mailing list.  We may not know exactly what the official version said, but at the time, this would only have been done for a minor change (iirc)...

Brian

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[Pavan Chander]

On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Brian Schweitzer <brian.brianschweitzer@...> wrote:

On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Andrew John Hughes <gnu_andrew@...> wrote:

http://musicbrainz.org/doc/Soundtrack_Style

Why are releases such as
http://musicbrainz.org/show/release/?releaseid=91478 using this
proposed guideline that was never accepted?

I've started http://musicbrainz.org/show/edit/?editid=10898308 to
gauge reaction on correcting this.  I haven't yet been given a good
reason why we would want the composer to be the artist of a track, but
you can see plenty of points for using the performer in the discussion
on the edit, including consistency with the majority of MB releases.

Andrew,

I agree that this should be discussed on the style list, not users.  But let me correct the history here.  SoundtrackStyle is not a "proposed guideline that was never accepted".  True, today, it is a proposal.  However, that has not always been the case.

SoundtrackStyle was, at one point, an official guideline.  The practice at the time was, when a guideline was being changed, to edit it in place, change that draft from "official" to "proposed", and then debate it in the wiki and on the style list.  However, in all the years since, every time we've discussed trying to make that guideline official, we've never managed to get past the RFV stage such that everyone was happy with the finalized guideline.  Unfortunately, that original, official, version was during the first wiki code (the one prior to moinmoin), and that edit history is unavailable; to the best of my knowledge, noone has a copy of that original official guideline.

However, the proper way to propose changing a guuideline isn't to edit first, and see if the edit passes.  This may be a "proposal", but it was official, this point was part of that official guideline, and the proposal has stood for over 5 years; changing it via  That's the point of the style mailing list.  We may not know exactly what the official version said, but at the time, this would only have been done for a minor change (iirc)...

Brian

 

Wow, this lonely little edit has turned into quite the discussion piece.
 

Considering the above, in particular "This may be a "proposal", but it was official, this point was part of that official guideline, and the proposal has stood for over 5 years", perhaps the status of the wiki page should be changed to something along the lines of, "This proposal has been stalled, but is considered a de facto standard".

Alternatively, perhaps the content of the guideline should at least reflect the fact that "For music written for the soundtrack, Artist should contain the composer, not the performer" is a guideline that should be followed, (regardless of the guideline's status).

Pavan Chander // navap

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