|
The opendarwin .com debacle
I've grown to truly appreciate the MacPorts project. I'm not as
involved as I'd like to be, but my list of submitted ports is growing.
I honestly have no idea how a few of you put so much dedicated time
into this project. Thanks is not ever going to be enough.
Two times now I've had someone tell me Fink was a better experience
than Mac Ports to learn they had been to the .com site.
Whether Fink is good or not is not the point I really care about, both
Fink and MacPorts are viable projects.
If two users were misinformed by the .com site, how many more are,
have been, or will be?
It appears the owner has turned to the dark side. Without getting into
too much of a cat and mouse game, what about some very basic counter
measures?
He must be syncing the port tree from some machine on a schedule, why
not block that machine?
There are plenty of links on the .com that point to official MacPorts
pages. Can we do a basic referrer check for those requests, and send
them to a page that shorty explains the situation, quickly gives them
links to get to official, and provides a detail link to the more
verbose explanation?
Isn't the site is violation of some aspect of some license of some
form? If that is the case, make him release his source, or stop, or
whatever we can find to make this go away.
Not that a lot of people use my DNS, but I'm tempted to add a zone for
his .com to point to nowhere. It's technicaly a phishing or malware
site, perhaps a mass effort to report the domain to the in built
browser phishing and malware lists is in order?
Has anyone gone to the upstream ISP and explained this case? How many
donations has he pilfered away from the team?
Maybe this is really low on the problem scale these days, if so,
ignore it I guess, but if I've personally hit two people who were
confused, this must be more widespread.
Anything I can do to help; I may not be able to patch as many ports as
the next guy, but I can do gruntwork like this :)
--
Scott
Iphone says hello.
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
> Two times now I've had someone tell me Fink was a better experience
> than Mac Ports to learn they had been to the .com site.
>
> If two users were misinformed by the .com site, how many more are,
> have been, or will be?
I've come across some users in IRC that were equally confused. He
needs to know he is not helping.
I recall in the past when reading his emails with the portmgrs that he
thought it was helpful to visitors. We need to document that it's
clearly not and inform him as such. Legal action can already be taken
since macports.org is copywriter with all rights reserved. He is
likely stealing content from us.
> It appears the owner has turned to the dark side. Without getting
> into too much of a cat and mouse game, what about some very basic
> counter measures?
Indeed, there is another domain suffix "protected" so you cannot tell
who registered it. At least I didn't know about this additional one
until today.
> He must be syncing the port tree from some machine on a schedule,
> why not block that machine?
We can likely match the IP address up with the one that site is on. I
can't imagine that he uses more than one machine to do this.
> Isn't the site is violation of some aspect of some license of some
> form? If that is the case, make him release his source, or stop, or
> whatever we can find to make this go away.
It is a violation: all rights for access to content on macports.org
are RESERVED. We can technically already slap him with a takedown
notice.
> Not that a lot of people use my DNS, but I'm tempted to add a zone
> for his .com to point to nowhere. It's technicaly a phishing or
> malware site, perhaps a mass effort to report the domain to the in
> built browser phishing and malware lists is in order?
Eh ... get opendns to block him. That'd be a more noticeable step
forward, then work with ISPs to block him.
I'd like to front some money to portmgr (or backorder them myself) to
prevent this guy from containing to masquerade.
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
For clarification, I believe you're talking about http://www.darwinports.com
, not opendarwin.com ...
On Oct 14, 2009, at 12:57, Scott Haneda wrote:
> I've grown to truly appreciate the MacPorts project. I'm not as
> involved as I'd like to be, but my list of submitted ports is growing.
>
> I honestly have no idea how a few of you put so much dedicated time
> into this project. Thanks is not ever going to be enough.
>
> Two times now I've had someone tell me Fink was a better experience
> than Mac Ports to learn they had been to the .com site.
>
> Whether Fink is good or not is not the point I really care about,
> both Fink and MacPorts are viable projects.
>
> If two users were misinformed by the .com site, how many more are,
> have been, or will be?
>
> It appears the owner has turned to the dark side. Without getting
> into too much of a cat and mouse game, what about some very basic
> counter measures?
>
> He must be syncing the port tree from some machine on a schedule,
> why not block that machine?
>
> There are plenty of links on the .com that point to official
> MacPorts pages. Can we do a basic referrer check for those requests,
> and send them to a page that shorty explains the situation, quickly
> gives them links to get to official, and provides a detail link to
> the more verbose explanation?
>
> Isn't the site is violation of some aspect of some license of some
> form? If that is the case, make him release his source, or stop, or
> whatever we can find to make this go away.
>
> Not that a lot of people use my DNS, but I'm tempted to add a zone
> for his .com to point to nowhere. It's technicaly a phishing or
> malware site, perhaps a mass effort to report the domain to the in
> built browser phishing and malware lists is in order?
>
> Has anyone gone to the upstream ISP and explained this case? How
> many donations has he pilfered away from the team?
>
> Maybe this is really low on the problem scale these days, if so,
> ignore it I guess, but if I've personally hit two people who were
> confused, this must be more widespread.
>
> Anything I can do to help; I may not be able to patch as many ports
> as the next guy, but I can do gruntwork like this :)
> --
> Scott
> Iphone says hello.
> _______________________________________________
> macports-dev mailing list
> macports-dev@...
> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
See, even I'm confused :) Sorry, when mobile I go on memory and
slipped that one up bad. You are correct in that this is about /
darwinports/.com
--
Scott
Iphone says hello.
On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:17 PM, Jeremy Huddleston < jeremyhu@...>
wrote:
> For clarification, I believe you're talking about http://www.darwinports.com
> , not opendarwin.com ...
>
> On Oct 14, 2009, at 12:57, Scott Haneda wrote:
>
>> I've grown to truly appreciate the MacPorts project. I'm not as
>> involved as I'd like to be, but my list of submitted ports is
>> growing.
>>
>> I honestly have no idea how a few of you put so much dedicated time
>> into this project. Thanks is not ever going to be enough.
>>
>> Two times now I've had someone tell me Fink was a better experience
>> than Mac Ports to learn they had been to the .com site.
>>
>> Whether Fink is good or not is not the point I really care about,
>> both Fink and MacPorts are viable projects.
>>
>> If two users were misinformed by the .com site, how many more are,
>> have been, or will be?
>>
>> It appears the owner has turned to the dark side. Without getting
>> into too much of a cat and mouse game, what about some very basic
>> counter measures?
>>
>> He must be syncing the port tree from some machine on a schedule,
>> why not block that machine?
>>
>> There are plenty of links on the .com that point to official
>> MacPorts pages. Can we do a basic referrer check for those
>> requests, and send them to a page that shorty explains the
>> situation, quickly gives them links to get to official, and
>> provides a detail link to the more verbose explanation?
>>
>> Isn't the site is violation of some aspect of some license of some
>> form? If that is the case, make him release his source, or stop, or
>> whatever we can find to make this go away.
>>
>> Not that a lot of people use my DNS, but I'm tempted to add a zone
>> for his .com to point to nowhere. It's technicaly a phishing or
>> malware site, perhaps a mass effort to report the domain to the in
>> built browser phishing and malware lists is in order?
>>
>> Has anyone gone to the upstream ISP and explained this case? How
>> many donations has he pilfered away from the team?
>>
>> Maybe this is really low on the problem scale these days, if so,
>> ignore it I guess, but if I've personally hit two people who were
>> confused, this must be more widespread.
>>
>> Anything I can do to help; I may not be able to patch as many ports
>> as the next guy, but I can do gruntwork like this :)
>> --
>> Scott
>> Iphone says hello.
>> _______________________________________________
>> macports-dev mailing list
>> macports-dev@...
>> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev>
>
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Jeremy Lavergne wrote:
>> Two times now I've had someone tell me Fink was a better experience
>> than Mac Ports to learn they had been to the .com site.
>>
>> If two users were misinformed by the .com site, how many more are,
>> have been, or will be?
>
> I've come across some users in IRC that were equally confused. He
> needs to know he is not helping.
>
> I recall in the past when reading his emails with the portmgrs that
> he thought it was helpful to visitors. We need to document that
> it's clearly not and inform him as such. Legal action can already
> be taken since macports.org is copywriter with all rights reserved.
> He is likely stealing content from us.
What is the last communication that was had with Matt, and what is his
position? Is there any point in opening dialogue with him again?
>> It appears the owner has turned to the dark side. Without getting
>> into too much of a cat and mouse game, what about some very basic
>> counter measures?
>
> Indeed, there is another domain suffix "protected" so you cannot
> tell who registered it. At least I didn't know about this
> additional one until today.
What is it, it is not .net as far as I can tell, which seems to be
available. I would like to purchase this domain now, and donate it to
macports, I can do the redirection or they can have the entire domain.
How do I proceed?
This is a concern, that site is beating the official source in ranking
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=darwinports&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10>> He must be syncing the port tree from some machine on a schedule,
>> why not block that machine?
>
> We can likely match the IP address up with the one that site is on.
> I can't imagine that he uses more than one machine to do this.
Is there any interest from the MP team to add a referrer check in
Apache to display a page that explains some of this? I would be happy
to create the page in the wiki. I know there is a page now, but it is
too verbose, it needs to be a simple sentence or two that explains
this situation and gets them to the correct site.
>> Isn't the site is violation of some aspect of some license of some
>> form? If that is the case, make him release his source, or stop, or
>> whatever we can find to make this go away.
>
> It is a violation: all rights for access to content on macports.org
> are RESERVED. We can technically already slap him with a takedown
> notice.
Can you find the ISP? I do not think there would be a lot of luck
hitting up register.com, as domain take downs are a nasty road to go
down.
> I'd like to front some money to portmgr (or backorder them myself)
> to prevent this guy from containing to masquerade.
I am happy to do the same with the .net today, and can accept the
transfer to whatever registrar they are using.
Unless someone tells me it is a bad idea, I would like to send Matt a
friendly email, telling him he is doing more harm than good, and ask
him to shut the site down, or redirect it to an appropriate spot.
Ideally he would give up the domain name.
--
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
>>> It appears the owner has turned to the dark side. Without getting
>>> into too much of a cat and mouse game, what about some very basic
>>> counter measures?
>>
>> Indeed, there is another domain suffix "protected" so you cannot
>> tell who registered it. At least I didn't know about this
>> additional one until today.
>
> What is it, it is not .net as far as I can tell, which seems to be
> available.
.info (72.52.206.10)
>>> Isn't the site is violation of some aspect of some license of some
>>> form? If that is the case, make him release his source, or stop,
>>> or whatever we can find to make this go away.
>>
>> It is a violation: all rights for access to content on
>> macports.org are RESERVED. We can technically already slap him
>> with a takedown notice.
>
> Can you find the ISP? I do not think there would be a lot of luck
> hitting up register.com, as domain take downs are a nasty road to go
> down.
208.185.168.32.zipmath.com (208.185.168.32)
Additionally, the .info trace ends here:
vz223.liquidweb.com (72.52.206.76)
> Unless someone tells me it is a bad idea, I would like to send Matt
> a friendly email, telling him he is doing more harm than good, and
> ask him to shut the site down, or redirect it to an appropriate
> spot. Ideally he would give up the domain name.
I'd suggest reviewing the pervious correspondence first. Does anyone
have a link to the email archives?
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 03:55:14PM -0700, Scott Haneda wrote:
[snip]
>
> Can you find the ISP? I do not think there would be a lot of luck
> hitting up register.com, as domain take downs are a nasty road to go
> down.
DNS says the IP is '208.185.168.32', which is in space
allocated to above.net. Reverse lookup of the IP returns:
208.185.168.32.zipmath.com
and that appears to be hosted inside of Above.Net's
SJC2 facility.
zipmath.com appears to belong to someone who is
in Cupertino, CA (see lookups for beffa.com).
-eric
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 03:55:14PM -0700, Scott Haneda said:
> On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Jeremy Lavergne wrote:
[...]
> >I recall in the past when reading his emails with the portmgrs that
> >he thought it was helpful to visitors. We need to document that
> >it's clearly not and inform him as such. Legal action can already
> >be taken since macports.org is copywriter with all rights reserved.
> >He is likely stealing content from us.
>
> What is the last communication that was had with Matt, and what is
> his position? Is there any point in opening dialogue with him again?
The last public communication, that I know of, is linked on our DarwinPorts
page:
< http://trac.macports.org/wiki/DarwinPorts>
[...]
> What is it, it is not .net as far as I can tell, which seems to be
> available. I would like to purchase this domain now, and donate it
> to macports, I can do the redirection or they can have the entire
> domain. How do I proceed?
I used to own darwinports dot net and just had it forward to the right
place; I didn't renew it a couple years ago because of the move to MacPorts
in all things. At this point, it's been MacPorts for over three years now,
so the real message these days is really, DarwinPorts is long dead.
>
> This is a concern, that site is beating the official source in ranking
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=darwinports&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10Yeah, I think that's mostly because of <portname>.domain being used.
[...]
> >It is a violation: all rights for access to content on
> >macports.org are RESERVED. We can technically already slap him
> >with a takedown notice.
>
> Can you find the ISP? I do not think there would be a lot of luck
> hitting up register.com, as domain take downs are a nasty road to go
> down.
Note that there really isn't any kind of actionable violation, as MacPorts
uses the BSD license, and the web page there looks to be his own creation...
Bryan
[...]
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
Well, Mat Caughron < mat@...>, or caughron@..., who is
the guy who runs the darwinports [dot] com site in question, and who
makes money by confusing our users and soliciting donations for the
work of the macports proejct, none of which ever get to the project,
is a apparently a consultant who professes to specialize in OS and web
security.
Maybe we should just publicize all of the information about what a
sleeze-ball he is about this, and see if it gets back to his clients?
We could put a big banner on our page: "Mat Caughron is a sleezeball:
read more". Maybe we can get some of the trade press to do an article
on people who make money by unethically pretending to be open-source
software projects?
James
On Oct 14, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Bryan Blackburn wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 03:55:14PM -0700, Scott Haneda said:
>> On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Jeremy Lavergne wrote:
> [...]
>>> I recall in the past when reading his emails with the portmgrs that
>>> he thought it was helpful to visitors. We need to document that
>>> it's clearly not and inform him as such. Legal action can already
>>> be taken since macports.org is copywriter with all rights reserved.
>>> He is likely stealing content from us.
>>
>> What is the last communication that was had with Matt, and what is
>> his position? Is there any point in opening dialogue with him again?
>
> The last public communication, that I know of, is linked on our
> DarwinPorts
> page:
>
> < http://trac.macports.org/wiki/DarwinPorts>
>
> [...]
>> What is it, it is not .net as far as I can tell, which seems to be
>> available. I would like to purchase this domain now, and donate it
>> to macports, I can do the redirection or they can have the entire
>> domain. How do I proceed?
>
> I used to own darwinports dot net and just had it forward to the right
> place; I didn't renew it a couple years ago because of the move to
> MacPorts
> in all things. At this point, it's been MacPorts for over three
> years now,
> so the real message these days is really, DarwinPorts is long dead.
>
>>
>> This is a concern, that site is beating the official source in
>> ranking
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=darwinports&aq=f&oq=&aqi=g10>
> Yeah, I think that's mostly because of <portname>.domain being used.
>
> [...]
>>> It is a violation: all rights for access to content on
>>> macports.org are RESERVED. We can technically already slap him
>>> with a takedown notice.
>>
>> Can you find the ISP? I do not think there would be a lot of luck
>> hitting up register.com, as domain take downs are a nasty road to go
>> down.
>
> Note that there really isn't any kind of actionable violation, as
> MacPorts
> uses the BSD license, and the web page there looks to be his own
> creation...
>
> Bryan
>
> [...]
>
> _______________________________________________
> macports-dev mailing list
> macports-dev@...
> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
Adding more...
http://freebsdgirl.com/2006/11/i-love-california.htmlClear evidence of confusion only a few years back.
It's pretty simple to see the circles he travels in. I say give him
one last chance to do the right thing, at which point, we can discuss
the next step.
--
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
On Oct 14, 2009, at 8:25 PM, James Berry wrote:
> Well, Mat Caughron < mat@...>, or caughron@..., who is
> the guy who runs the darwinports [dot] com site in question, and who
> makes money by confusing our users and soliciting donations for the
> work of the macports proejct, none of which ever get to the project,
> is a apparently a consultant who professes to specialize in OS and
> web security.
>
> Maybe we should just publicize all of the information about what a
> sleeze-ball he is about this, and see if it gets back to his
> clients? We could put a big banner on our page: "Mat Caughron is a
> sleezeball: read more". Maybe we can get some of the trade press to
> do an article on people who make money by unethically pretending to
> be open-source software projects?
>
> James
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
Ultimately, I don't think anyone is going to be able to "force" the darwinports.com
folks from doing what they're doing (and I really wish the original
poster had managed to keep the notion of opendarwin / darwinports
separate in his head, since they're really not related issues, yet
there's opendarwin in the subject on this whole thread). Those who
were around back when macports was chosen as the new name will know
that this was, in fact, one of the big reasons for doing so. This
"problem" has been around for as long as MacPorts has been renamed.
The real problem at this point, however, is not darwinports.com and
all this chest-thumping and hand wringing is giving me nothing but
feelings of deja-vu since we have done it all before. It didn't help
then and it's utterly unlikely to accomplish anything now. The real
problem here is one of branding. Why/where are users even hearing the
name "darwinports" when it's been essentially dead for over 3 years?
Projects rename themselves all the time and somehow manage to make the
name change stick. What this project needs to ask itself is why the
name change has not stuck as successfully here and then fix that
problem rather than re-fighting old battles.
- Jordan
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
> The real problem here is one of branding. Why/where are users even
> hearing the name "darwinports" when it's been essentially dead for
> over 3 years? Projects rename themselves all the time and somehow
> manage to make the name change stick. What this project needs to
> ask itself is why the name change has not stuck as successfully here
> and then fix that problem rather than re-fighting old battles.
Search for "pspp mac" and you'll find dp.com sitting at #4 or #5.
This demonstrates at least one way people are finding it: searching
for the open source project they want and "mac". In my example,
simply searching for "pspp" will not being up dp.com.
Macports is nowhere to be found, btw.
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
On 22 Oct 2009, at 18:54, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> Ultimately, I don't think anyone is going to be able to "force" the darwinports.com
> folks from doing what they're doing (and I really wish the original
> poster had managed to keep the notion of opendarwin / darwinports
> separate in his head, since they're really not related issues, yet
> there's opendarwin in the subject on this whole thread). Those who
> were around back when macports was chosen as the new name will know
> that this was, in fact, one of the big reasons for doing so. This
> "problem" has been around for as long as MacPorts has been renamed.
>
> The real problem at this point, however, is not darwinports.com and
> all this chest-thumping and hand wringing is giving me nothing but
> feelings of deja-vu since we have done it all before. It didn't
> help then and it's utterly unlikely to accomplish anything now. The
> real problem here is one of branding. Why/where are users even
> hearing the name "darwinports" when it's been essentially dead for
> over 3 years? Projects rename themselves all the time and somehow
> manage to make the name change stick. What this project needs to
> ask itself is why the name change has not stuck as successfully here
> and then fix that problem rather than re-fighting old battles.
>
> - Jordan
Go to Google ... enter something like ... mysql5 port macosx
1. mysql.com
2. out of date way to get php5, mysql5, apache2 using MacPorts ...
what's gawk & nawk ???
3. the "unwanted" site
...
8. again the "unwanted" site, with a sublist of lots more results
...
further down some hits for the trac to with bugs
...
nowhere in the first 100 hits is www.macports.org
So it's little wonder that the "other" site keeps cropping up.
Google does have a good number of pages ... search for ...
site:www.macports.org
In fact there are 328 hits for
site:www.macports.org mysql5
but having found which of those is a relevant one ... most of them
have the generic "The Macports Project - Available Ports" page title.
Mark
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
So all of this comes down to page rank for our site vs that "other"
site.
I've got to believe we have better incoming links to our site, so if
we better structured our site to do cross linking between categories
(and perhaps stoop to the subdomain tricks he does), we could
presumably improve this situation immensely.
James
On Oct 22, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Mark Hattam wrote:
> On 22 Oct 2009, at 18:54, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
>
>> Ultimately, I don't think anyone is going to be able to "force" the darwinports.com
>> folks from doing what they're doing (and I really wish the
>> original poster had managed to keep the notion of opendarwin /
>> darwinports separate in his head, since they're really not related
>> issues, yet there's opendarwin in the subject on this whole
>> thread). Those who were around back when macports was chosen as
>> the new name will know that this was, in fact, one of the big
>> reasons for doing so. This "problem" has been around for as long
>> as MacPorts has been renamed.
>>
>> The real problem at this point, however, is not darwinports.com and
>> all this chest-thumping and hand wringing is giving me nothing but
>> feelings of deja-vu since we have done it all before. It didn't
>> help then and it's utterly unlikely to accomplish anything now.
>> The real problem here is one of branding. Why/where are users even
>> hearing the name "darwinports" when it's been essentially dead for
>> over 3 years? Projects rename themselves all the time and somehow
>> manage to make the name change stick. What this project needs to
>> ask itself is why the name change has not stuck as successfully
>> here and then fix that problem rather than re-fighting old battles.
>>
>> - Jordan
>
>
> Go to Google ... enter something like ... mysql5 port macosx
>
> 1. mysql.com
> 2. out of date way to get php5, mysql5, apache2 using MacPorts ...
> what's gawk & nawk ???
> 3. the "unwanted" site
> ...
> 8. again the "unwanted" site, with a sublist of lots more results
> ...
> further down some hits for the trac to with bugs
> ...
> nowhere in the first 100 hits is www.macports.org
>
> So it's little wonder that the "other" site keeps cropping up.
>
> Google does have a good number of pages ... search for ...
> site:www.macports.org
>
> In fact there are 328 hits for
> site:www.macports.org mysql5
>
> but having found which of those is a relevant one ... most of them
> have the generic "The Macports Project - Available Ports" page title.
>
>
> Mark
> _______________________________________________
> macports-dev mailing list
> macports-dev@...
> http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
Given the guy is unscrupulous, there's no telling what kind of current
version of google bombing he might be using to boost his rankings.
Are there any legal issues involved with just claiming authority on
the domain on my dns servers and redirecting to a page that informs
the user of its lack of affiliation with the macports project proper
and then providing links to both or some such?
My dns server could potentially have a rather far reaching impact.
-james
On Oct 22, 2009, at 11:37 AM, James Berry wrote:
> So all of this comes down to page rank for our site vs that "other"
> site.
>
> I've got to believe we have better incoming links to our site, so if
> we better structured our site to do cross linking between categories
> (and perhaps stoop to the subdomain tricks he does), we could
> presumably improve this situation immensely.
>
> James
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
Hi Jordan. Correct, I made a mistake on the subject of the email, one
I certainly know better. I addressed this in a previous email, and it
indeed is something I regret, as it only muddies this situation.
While I do not want to take the liberty, if everyone sees fit, hijack
the subject, and correct it. Do not even bother putting in a [was:
previous subject], let's just correct it. My bad.
Comments below...
On Oct 22, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote:
> Ultimately, I don't think anyone is going to be able to "force" the
> darwinports.com folks from doing what they're doing (and I really
> wish the original poster had managed to keep the notion of
> opendarwin / darwinports separate in his head, since they're really
> not related issues, yet there's opendarwin in the subject on this
> whole thread). Those who were around back when macports was chosen
> as the new name will know that this was, in fact, one of the big
> reasons for doing so. This "problem" has been around for as long as
> MacPorts has been renamed.
I do not think forcing him to give up the domain will happen, but I do
think that presenting some other data I have found about the
individual may make him willingly give it up. I outlines some of my
ideas on in a thread I was CC'd in on the MP Managers list, but have
not heard anything more. I am not on that list, so perhaps I was
removed from the CC loop and am just unaware of the replies.
At this point, I do not think it is good to be public with some of the
findings.
> The real problem at this point, however, is not darwinports.com and
> all this chest-thumping and hand wringing is giving me nothing but
> feelings of deja-vu since we have done it all before. It didn't
> help then and it's utterly unlikely to accomplish anything now. The
> real problem here is one of branding. Why/where are users even
> hearing the name "darwinports" when it's been essentially dead for
> over 3 years? Projects rename themselves all the time and somehow
> manage to make the name change stick. What this project needs to
> ask itself is why the name change has not stuck as successfully here
> and then fix that problem rather than re-fighting old battles.
I suppose in part because there is a reason companies spend millions
on branding, and so rigorously defend their brand from confusion, to
avoid this exact case. The only thing I do know, is I have first hand
experience with users I try to get to look into MP's, only to be told
they did, and it sucked. I dig deeper, and am right in the middle of
this very confusion, they run into the wrong domain somehow.
There is a lot that can be done to clean up and better position the MP
website. I outlines those things in a previous email because I feel I
am strong in those areas. Myself, and one other were willing to put
forth a donation to deal with the protection of a few rather obvious
domain names.
The last thing I want is for those that work on the internal of MP to
be bothered with web development of the site, and sorting out google
ranking issues. That is certainly something I am able to do, if I was
given someone to work with to hash out the details of how to best
approach it.
Thanks for your comments.
--
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
On Oct 22, 2009, at 11:21 AM, Mark Hattam wrote:
> Go to Google ... enter something like ... mysql5 port macosx
>
> 1. mysql.com
> 2. out of date way to get php5, mysql5, apache2 using MacPorts ...
> what's gawk & nawk ???
> 3. the "unwanted" site
> ...
> 8. again the "unwanted" site, with a sublist of lots more results
> ...
> further down some hits for the trac to with bugs
> ...
> nowhere in the first 100 hits is www.macports.org
>
> So it's little wonder that the "other" site keeps cropping up.
>
> Google does have a good number of pages ... search for ... site:www.macports.org
>
> In fact there are 328 hits for
> site:www.macports.org mysql5
>
> but having found which of those is a relevant one ... most of them
> have the generic "The Macports Project - Available Ports" page title.
Good points. The controlling factor of this, for the most part is,
that the nefarious site maintains a better page rank. The good news
is, his tactics are old, and largely irrelevant. To get ahead of him
would not be that hard.
Being really generic about this:
site:darwinports.com 22,800 internally linked pages
site:macports.org 45,100 internally linked pages
MacPorrs doubles his pages in that search, that battle is won.
Here is where MacPorts is failing:
link:macports.org 1,240
link:darwinports.com 743
While MP beats him in raw numbers, the authority of those who link to
him is higher, so he wins. It was preiously mentioned this is an
issue of branding, which is true. Branding is going to take time and
work. It is a long term goal. The brand could be cleaned immensely
by just making the domain go away, then MP becomes the authoritative
brand.
It is a step 2 as far as I see it. The easiest way to deal with this.
I wanted to make one last effort to contact the domain owner and
present him the chance to do the right thing. As long as I have
permission to do so on behalf of MP, I will be happy to get that ball
rolling.
--
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
On Oct 22, 2009, at 11:37 AM, James Berry wrote:
> So all of this comes down to page rank for our site vs that "other"
> site.
Correct. And if you look at the rankings of the sites that link to
him, you will see, they have stronger rankings than those that link in
to Mac Ports.
> I've got to believe we have better incoming links to our site,
Unfortunately, no, in my research, that is not the case. One of the
very best things that could be done, would be for MacPorts to have
every maintainer of every port contact the developer of that software,
and ask for al link.
I have done this for every port I worked on. When I finish the ASSP
port, there will be a link. I did the memtester port, ( http://pyropus.ca/software/memtester/
) and went to him to get a link.
I will be finishing the pureftpd port, and will also get the same
linking. What anchor text we suggest to use should be talked about, I
am not sure that "MacPorts" is the best. It would be a discussion
worth having for sure.
> so if we better structured our site to do cross linking between
> categories (and perhaps stoop to the subdomain tricks he does), we
> could presumably improve this situation immensely.
We do not need to stoop to this level. See my more detailed email that
was in the off list discussion in which I am pretty sure you were
CCd'd on.
Matt Cutts, Google Search guy, spoke about this at PubCon. While it
used to matter, it no longer would apply in this case. It would be a
waste of effort and using a tactic that even if it did work, could
change at some time, and be wasted work.
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/subdomains-and-subdirectories/( There is a video that explains it as well, I believe in within this
page http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/seo-answers-on-google-video/ )
It used to work, and since no site has come along to challenge the
relevance of the DP site, he will still maintain the rankings from
when that tactic did work.
--
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
|
Re: The opendarwin .com debacle
On Oct 22, 2009, at 12:09 PM, James Kyle wrote:
> Given the guy is unscrupulous, there's no telling what kind of
> current version of google bombing he might be using to boost his
> rankings.
I do not think much, I think he is riding the train of strong rankings
from years ago, and no other site has challenged his ranking, so he
just holds onto it.
> Are there any legal issues involved with just claiming authority on
> the domain on my dns servers and redirecting to a page that informs
> the user of its lack of affiliation with the macports project proper
> and then providing links to both or some such?
Your DNS, do as you see fit. If you were a root server, then I
suspect you would have an issue, as NetSol did with their NXDOMAIN
thing a while back.
> My dns server could potentially have a rather far reaching impact.
I was going to do the same, though my DNS server does not have such
far reaching impact, but more out of principle. Perhaps enough pokes
at openDNS and and the malware url checking service Safari and FireFox
use, could get his domain listed as a scam site, which is very much is
as it asks for money.
--
Scott * If you contact me off list replace talklists@ with scott@ *
_______________________________________________
macports-dev mailing list
macports-dev@...
http://lists.macosforge.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/macports-dev
|
smime.p7s (5K) 