The real cost of copyright infringment

[Bob Croxford]

<< http://copyrightaction.com/forum/the-real-cost-of-being-sued-by- 
getty>>

Bob Croxford

www.atmosphere.co.uk

[Joe Fox Photography]

--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., Bob Croxford <bobcroxford@...> wrote:
>
> << http://copyrightaction.com/forum/the-real-cost-of-being-sued-by- 
> getty>>
>
> Bob Croxford
>
> www.atmosphere.co.uk
>

Thanks for posting this Bob.
I think a lot of it, particularly in my own similar dealings is summed up with the 'they arent serious' or 'they will go away'

A couple of months ago a uk company lifted an image off one of my clients sites that I shot exclusively for them. They are a direct competitor so my client isnt best pleased.

So I got on the phone, had the image taken down and after a lot of toing and froing they agreed to pay me compensation to prove to my client I didnt just sell the image on. Got the usual, MD on holiday, its the web designers fault, you should ring them, oh we got it off google and all images are free on the internet, why should we pay etc etc.

They emailed me the invoice amount, I confirmed and sent them the invoice with 7 days to pay to avoid proceedings.
A month later I emailed to say it hadnt been paid, they said it was holidays (ok once is believeable, twice is pushing it) and it would be sorted out.
2 months later another reminder and they said they would chase it up.
3 months later they receive a letter from a copyright solicitor asking for well in excess of what we originally settled on.

I did point out they were a company specialising in protection of peoples data and any lawsuit would be a lot more damaging than just paying an invoice.
I've tried to be nice, now they have to pay the cost.

Thing is though, I originally accepted it as an error, told them they'd also ripped PA off and they wouldnt be as nice as me etc etc.
Now they know Im serious and now it means that in future I'll not even bother with the phone call, I'll just get the solicitor on to it from the start.

One bit that I found incredulous about that article was the belief in the web designer, its like photography where anyone with a camera calls themselves a photographer, anyone with a computer can be a web designer. Do these people not learn about copyright, do they not have liability insurance?

It will be interesting to see now that this is publicised, if the rest will pay up or want their day in court or listen to web advice to tell them to stuff it.

Its also interesting that whilst Getty now price web use from 15 quid or whatever it is, that they value illegal use at 1000+.
   Joe
http://www.joefoxphoto.co.uk

[Len Holsborg]

From the linked article, the crux of the matter :



"The designer found a smiley image of a mother and daughter somewhere on the web that he believed it was OK to use."



Wonder how many other times this designer, and others, 'believed it was OK" to "steal first, hope no one notices second".



If you asked average citizens around the world (not the crooks that willfully infringe) whether using an image found on the web is OK/legal, what % would say yes ?



My guess - 90 % yes, 5 % no, 5 % not sure



The solution (s) - do all within your power to protect your images by registering ©, embedding metadata, watermarking or otherwise including © notice and contact info on any image posted on-line, posting at lowest resolution possible while still maintaining the integrity of the image, and, last, but not least, pursuing infringers if and when you are lucky enough to catch them. Come down harshly on the obvious thiefs, and show some discretion if you are convinced the infringement was "accidental/unintentional".



p.s. the linked article mentions that the company involved is a "removal" company - here in the states that can mean anything from a moving company to a hit man for a crime family - what does it mean in Scotland ???    ;-}


cheers, and hope to bump into some of you next week at the expo.........



Len Holsborg

http://lenholsborg.com 

images also available @

http://gettyimages.com/photonica 

http://alamy.com 

http://cgibackgrounds.com 

rights managed licensing exclusively


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Croxford <bobcroxford@...>
To: stOCKPHOTO@...
Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:20 am
Subject: [STOCKPHOTO] The real cost of copyright infringment


 



<< http://copyrightaction.com/forum/the-real-cost-of-being-sued-by- 
getty>>

Bob Croxford

www.atmosphere.co.uk








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Stockphoto Seller]

Although it isn't fair to the individuals who are professional and follow the rules for use of images, designers, in general, have played a huge role in photography's (especially stock photography's) race to the bottom. Let's not forget that royalty-free pricing gained much of its early momentum because many designers embraced it from the start in the early-to-mid-1990's, buying disks full of RF images that they would use on multiple jobs without further payment but billing clients in full for each use.
 
It was also designers who fostered several of the early microstock sites, at first exchanging their own images for the piddling RF fees to avoid using legitimate professional photography. No, they don't seem like bad people in  person, and one might say they are unaware of ethics rather than unethical. Decent people sometimes do bad things. In the realm of what "care-less" designers have contributed to stock photography, I'm reminded of the movie Rosemary's Baby.
 
Carl May














[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[alfred.molon-2]

--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "joefizz_69" <joe@...> wrote:
>
> Its also interesting that whilst Getty now price web use from 15 quid or whatever it is, that they value illegal use at 1000+.

That's strange in fact. I was under the impression that what you can claim in court is proportional to what the standard licencing fee is.
--

Alfred Molon
www.molon.de

[Bob Croxford]

On 16 Oct 2009, at 13:42, joefizz_69 wrote:

> Its also interesting that whilst Getty now price web use from 15  
> quid or whatever it is, that they value illegal use at 1000+.


If you use the Getty Calculator you will find that the fee quickly  
escalates to over £700.

A 'removals' company in the UK is a firm who transport peoples  
furniture and stuff when they move house.


Bob Croxford

www.atmosphere.co.uk

[Emil Pozar-2]

Have problem with keywording.. whatever i do all is erased after several days..
Eva said there's an IT problem present.

Anyone else stuck?


Emil Pozar



------------------------------------

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[Paul Aparycki]

Here is a thought that might make some changes. ALL universities should have to pool funds to pay copyright infringement cases. Harvard, Yale, (homes of lying lawyers), Duke, McGill, Sorbonne, etc, etc. Why??? Because the very first class in any art course or humanities course should teach, BEFORE THEY TEACH ANYTHING ELSE, . . . that book, that image, that thought, IS NOT YOURS. They don't teach that. They teach how to get out there and grab as much cash as possible. Make them pay . . . they will start to educate the monkeys who are plagueing the system. It won't eliminate the problem, but it will reduce it.

 

Paul Aparycki


To: STOCKPHOTO@...
From: lenswork1@...
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 16:38:02 -0400
Subject: Re: [STOCKPHOTO] The real cost of copyright infringment

 




From the linked article, the crux of the matter :

"The designer found a smiley image of a mother and daughter somewhere on the web that he believed it was OK to use."

Wonder how many other times this designer, and others, 'believed it was OK" to "steal first, hope no one notices second".

If you asked average citizens around the world (not the crooks that willfully infringe) whether using an image found on the web is OK/legal, what % would say yes ?

My guess - 90 % yes, 5 % no, 5 % not sure

The solution (s) - do all within your power to protect your images by registering ©, embedding metadata, watermarking or otherwise including © notice and contact info on any image posted on-line, posting at lowest resolution possible while still maintaining the integrity of the image, and, last, but not least, pursuing infringers if and when you are lucky enough to catch them. Come down harshly on the obvious thiefs, and show some discretion if you are convinced the infringement was "accidental/unintentional".

p.s. the linked article mentions that the company involved is a "removal" company - here in the states that can mean anything from a moving company to a hit man for a crime family - what does it mean in Scotland ??? ;-}

cheers, and hope to bump into some of you next week at the expo.........

Len Holsborg

http://lenholsborg.com 

images also available @

http://gettyimages.com/photonica 

http://alamy.com 

http://cgibackgrounds.com 

rights managed licensing exclusively

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Croxford <bobcroxford@...>
To: stOCKPHOTO@...
Sent: Fri, Oct 16, 2009 3:20 am
Subject: [STOCKPHOTO] The real cost of copyright infringment

<< http://copyrightaction.com/forum/the-real-cost-of-being-sued-by- 
getty>>

Bob Croxford

www.atmosphere.co.uk

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








     

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Ryan McGinnis-2]

On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 10:49 PM, Paul Aparycki <h.paul.a@...> wrote:
>
> H BEFORE THEY TEACH ANYTHING ELSE, . . . that book, that image, that thought, IS NOT YOURS. They don't teach that. They teach how to get out there and grab as much cash as possible.

To be fair, one cannot copyright thoughts, only original expressions
of thoughts.
--
-Ryan McGinnis
The BIG Storm Picture -- http://bigstormpicture.com
Vortex-2 image licensing at http://vortex-2.com
Getty: http://www.gettyimages.com/search/search.aspx?artist=Ryan+McGinnis

[jean-pierre lescourret]

--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., Paul Aparycki <h.paul.a@...> wrote:
>
>
> Here is a thought that might make some changes. ALL universities should have to pool funds to pay copyright infringement cases. Harvard, Yale, (homes of lying lawyers), Duke, McGill, Sorbonne, etc, etc. Why??? Because the very first class in any art course or humanities course should teach, BEFORE THEY TEACH ANYTHING ELSE, . . . that book, that image, that thought, IS NOT YOURS. They don't teach that. They teach how to get out there and grab as much cash as possible. Make them pay . . . they will start to educate the monkeys who are plagueing the system. It won't eliminate the problem, but it will reduce it.
>
>  
>
> Paul Aparycki
>

Try to explain it to Google.....

jp lescourret

[lucio dona]

yep, happened to me last week now I've re-keyworded and are AA so let's wait.

Lucio

--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:

>
>
> Have problem with keywording.. whatever i do all is erased after several days..
> Eva said there's an IT problem present.
>
> Anyone else stuck?
>
>
> Emil Pozar
>

[idmurray]

Same problem here. I have 974 pics that were sent with captions and keywords that are showing up as having no keywords. That number was higher so some have been reunited with their metadata. I'm waiting in hope that the same happens to these.

Eva, did say that there was an IT problem

Ian Murray
--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "lsdpix" <lsdpix@...> wrote:

>
> yep, happened to me last week now I've re-keyworded and are AA so let's wait.
>
> Lucio
>
> --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Have problem with keywording.. whatever i do all is erased after several days..
> > Eva said there's an IT problem present.
> >
> > Anyone else stuck?
> >
> >
> > Emil Pozar
> >
>

[petforsberg]

Having a problem getting images processed, have about 400 images stuck and not going live despite the emails. There seems to be IT stuff going on there.

Peter Forsberg, touring the land of hope and glory

--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:

>
>
> Have problem with keywording.. whatever i do all is erased after several days..
> Eva said there's an IT problem present.
>
> Anyone else stuck?
>
>
> Emil Pozar
>

[petforsberg]

Seems to be fixed, have now more stuff live and also 300 to submit.

Peter Forsberg

--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "ian" <idmurray@...> wrote:

>
> Same problem here. I have 974 pics that were sent with captions and keywords that are showing up as having no keywords. That number was higher so some have been reunited with their metadata. I'm waiting in hope that the same happens to these.
>
> Eva, did say that there was an IT problem
>
> Ian Murray
> --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "lsdpix" <lsdpix@> wrote:
> >
> > yep, happened to me last week now I've re-keyworded and are AA so let's wait.
> >
> > Lucio
> >
> > --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Have problem with keywording.. whatever i do all is erased after several days..
> > > Eva said there's an IT problem present.
> > >
> > > Anyone else stuck?
> > >
> > >
> > > Emil Pozar
> > >
> >
>

[William Perry-2]

Could people tell me more about agefotostock.  Is this a good site?  Do people have sales on the site?

Thanks,

Bill Perry
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

-----Original Message-----
From: "petforsberg" <petforsberg@...>
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:35:06
To: <STOCKPHOTO@...>
Subject: [STOCKPHOTO] Re: Agefotostock problem

Seems to be fixed, have now more stuff live and also 300 to submit.

Peter Forsberg

--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "ian" <idmurray@...> wrote:

>
> Same problem here. I have 974 pics that were sent with captions and keywords that are showing up as having no keywords. That number was higher so some have been reunited with their metadata. I'm waiting in hope that the same happens to these.
>
> Eva, did say that there was an IT problem
>
> Ian Murray
> --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "lsdpix" <lsdpix@> wrote:
> >
> > yep, happened to me last week now I've re-keyworded and are AA so let's wait.
> >
> > Lucio
> >
> > --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Have problem with keywording.. whatever i do all is erased after several days..
> > > Eva said there's an IT problem present.
> > >
> > > Anyone else stuck?
> > >
> > >
> > > Emil Pozar
> > >
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Peter Bennett-8]

Anybody in New York or beyond who ever needed their cameras repaired know of
Marty and the amazing work they did there. It was always such a great
feeling of relief to walk in to the shop on 47th and know it was going to be
OK.

NY Times Obit - http://tinyurl.com/yzfx6np

My favorite line is: ³The attitude was that these photojournalists are the
ones that have to stick their heads up out of that foxhole to get the
pictures, so their cameras damn well better work,² Noah Schwartz, a former
machinist¹s assistant in Mr. Forscher¹s shop, said in a telephone interview
on Tuesday. ³So every camera we fixed was with that attitude.²

Peter Bennett
Ambient Images Inc.
P: 310-312-6640

Specializing in New York and California images
http://www.californiastockphoto.com
http://www.newyorkstockphoto.com
http://www.greenstockphotos.com

[Emil Pozar-2]

>Seems to be fixed, have now more stuff live and also 300 to submit.


Not so with me.. 80+ images not possible to keyword :((
I did it 4 times.. just to revert to nothing.. after few days.

Also I have some images just accepted and *online* (as Eva wrote in her mail) but they are not seen in any of my folders and so I cannot even try to keyword..

>
>Peter Forsberg
>
>--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "ian" <idmurray@...> wrote:
>>
>> Same problem here. I have 974 pics that were sent with captions and keywords that are showing up as having no keywords. That number was higher so some have been reunited with their metadata. I'm waiting in hope that the same happens to these.
>>
>> Eva, did say that there was an IT problem
>>
>> Ian Murray
>> --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "lsdpix" <lsdpix@> wrote:
>> >
>> > yep, happened to me last week now I've re-keyworded and are AA so let's wait.
>> >
>> > Lucio
>> >
>> > --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Have problem with keywording.. whatever i do all is erased after several days..
>> > > Eva said there's an IT problem present.
>> > >
>> > > Anyone else stuck?
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Emil Pozar
>> > >
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________ NOD32 4527 (20091020) Information __________
>
>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>http://www.eset.com

------------------------------------

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[Emil Pozar-2]

Emil Pozar wrote:

Just arrived!

"I inform you that our IT Department is already fixing these technical
problems.

Please be aware that your suggestions have been processed, so you do not
need to add keywords again to these images.  You will see these images
keyworded during this week."

>>Seems to be fixed, have now more stuff live and also 300 to submit.
>
>
>Not so with me.. 80+ images not possible to keyword :((
>I did it 4 times.. just to revert to nothing.. after few days.
>
>Also I have some images just accepted and *online* (as Eva wrote in her mail) but they are not seen in any of my folders and so I cannot even try to keyword..
>
>
>
>>
>>Peter Forsberg
>>
>>--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "ian" <idmurray@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Same problem here. I have 974 pics that were sent with captions and keywords that are showing up as having no keywords. That number was higher so some have been reunited with their metadata. I'm waiting in hope that the same happens to these.
>>>
>>> Eva, did say that there was an IT problem
>>>
>>> Ian Murray
>>> --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "lsdpix" <lsdpix@> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > yep, happened to me last week now I've re-keyworded and are AA so let's wait.
>>> >
>>> > Lucio
>>> >
>>> > --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Have problem with keywording.. whatever i do all is erased after several days..
>>> > > Eva said there's an IT problem present.
>>> > >
>>> > > Anyone else stuck?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Emil Pozar
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>

Regards.
Emil Pozar
epozar@...
http://www.epozar.com



------------------------------------

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[petforsberg]

Seems to be fits and starts. After updating once, the activity has now stopped. Despite getting the "dear friend" email about several hundred more added over the weekend, they have not appeared. But have not had any problems keywording during this IT scandal.

Peter Forsberg

--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:

>
> >Seems to be fixed, have now more stuff live and also 300 to submit.
>
>
> Not so with me.. 80+ images not possible to keyword :((
> I did it 4 times.. just to revert to nothing.. after few days.
>
> Also I have some images just accepted and *online* (as Eva wrote in her mail) but they are not seen in any of my folders and so I cannot even try to keyword..
>
>
>
> >
> >Peter Forsberg
> >
> >--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "ian" <idmurray@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Same problem here. I have 974 pics that were sent with captions and keywords that are showing up as having no keywords. That number was higher so some have been reunited with their metadata. I'm waiting in hope that the same happens to these.
> >>
> >> Eva, did say that there was an IT problem
> >>
> >> Ian Murray
> >> --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "lsdpix" <lsdpix@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > yep, happened to me last week now I've re-keyworded and are AA so let's wait.
> >> >
> >> > Lucio
> >> >
> >> > --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Have problem with keywording.. whatever i do all is erased after several days..
> >> > > Eva said there's an IT problem present.
> >> > >
> >> > > Anyone else stuck?
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Emil Pozar
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________ NOD32 4527 (20091020) Information __________
> >
> >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> >http://www.eset.com
>

[Emil Pozar-2]

petforsberg wrote:

>Seems to be fits and starts. After updating once, the activity has now stopped. Despite getting the "dear friend" email about several hundred more added over the weekend, they have not appeared. But have not had any problems keywording during this IT scandal.
>
>Peter Forsberg


I stop sending new images and now watch what's happening with those online "not yet keyworded".. some got keywords some not.. will wait more.

Emil Pozar

>
>--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
>>
>> >Seems to be fixed, have now more stuff live and also 300 to submit.
>>
>>
>> Not so with me.. 80+ images not possible to keyword :((
>> I did it 4 times.. just to revert to nothing.. after few days.
>>
>> Also I have some images just accepted and *online* (as Eva wrote in her mail) but they are not seen in any of my folders and so I cannot even try to keyword..
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Peter Forsberg
>> >
>> >--- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "ian" <idmurray@> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Same problem here. I have 974 pics that were sent with captions and keywords that are showing up as having no keywords. That number was higher so some have been reunited with their metadata. I'm waiting in hope that the same happens to these.
>> >>
>> >> Eva, did say that there was an IT problem
>> >>
>> >> Ian Murray
>> >> --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "lsdpix" <lsdpix@> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > yep, happened to me last week now I've re-keyworded and are AA so let's wait.
>> >> >
>> >> > Lucio
>> >> >
>> >> > --- In STOCKPHOTO@..., "Emil Pozar" <yahoogroups@> wrote:
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Have problem with keywording.. whatever i do all is erased after several days..
>> >> > > Eva said there's an IT problem present.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Anyone else stuck?
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Emil Pozar
>> >> > >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >__________ NOD32 4527 (20091020) Information __________
>> >
>> >This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>> >http://www.eset.com
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>__________ NOD32 4546 (20091027) Information __________
>
>This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
>http://www.eset.com

Regards.
Emil Pozar
epozar@...




------------------------------------

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