Nabble - Therion

bug report

2009-12-02T05:44:52Z

Hello

I am found some bugs, 5.2.14

XTherion

1) text in "Help->Controls..." for russian translation must be in CP-1251 (now in UTF-8)
2) slash in "command line options" editbox now must be doubled, example: -p ..\\..
3) scrollbar of side panel initialized incorrect at first time after .th2 file opened
4) jumping from compiler log cause error when jump target (line nember in .th2) denote on line without line points
5) after change point type to "station" the field "orientation" not cleared
6) short-cuts not worked when I switch keyboard to native language
7) points changed their types to "station" when I set them close to XVI station node

Therion

1) line command whth one line point cause infinite loop while compiling with message:
[Warning: unable to determine direction on zero-length path in scrap S-800-1@]
2) When station connects to other stations which not present as point:station in map(but present in centerline) Therion draw line:survey anyway

and some features be good to implement:

1) multiple installations of Therion at one system (at this time second installation to different folder corrupt the first one)
2) new command in thconfig, analogue to "-p" Therion command line option

-- WBR, Vasily
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Re: Increasing Metapost 4096 scrap limit

2009-12-01T10:48:39Z

On Dec 1, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Martin Budaj wrote:

Therion currently inserts warningcheck:=1; before scraps without good
reason, so it will be fixed soon.

If the new warningcheck setting would work for you, I would prefer not
to modify current file numbering scheme for metapost pictures and have
it fixed later with implementation of metapost library.

That will work great. I did a search and found the command on lines 1933 and 1948 of thexpmap.cxx (5.2.12), I changed it to 0 and recompiled Therion and now my map compiles without error!

Thanks,

Carl

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Re: Increasing Metapost 4096 scrap limit

2009-12-01T09:43:02Z

On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Carl Magnuson <magnu213@...> wrote:
> It looks like the solution is to issue the following metapost command:
> warningcheck := 0;

Indeed. The new limit will be 32768 and could not be increased further
in Metapost itself.

The solution would be modification of how therion manages metapost
pictures (currently they are stored in files data.1 to data.4000, with
files data.4001 to data.4095 reserved for pattern definitions). This
numbering scheme could be modified to allow more file name prefixes
and consequently theoretically unlimited number of scraps processed by
metapost.

On the other hand there is still pdfTeX limit which would not allow
much more scraps. PdfTeX uses internal registers for scraps
referencing (scrap data is included only once in pdf file and can be
referenced on multiple pages). You could avoid pdftex limit by using
SVG output (if SVG viewers would process large number of internal
references).

In the longer-term future (a few years) I would like to use metapost
as a library instead of external metapost executable, which would
solve the problems with temporary files (and other problems as well).

> However adding it in a
> code metapost
> warningcheck := 0;
> endcode
> block seems to have no effect, mpost still fails on more then 4096 scraps.

Therion currently inserts warningcheck:=1; before scraps without good
reason, so it will be fixed soon.

If the new warningcheck setting would work for you, I would prefer not
to modify current file numbering scheme for metapost pictures and have
it fixed later with implementation of metapost library.

Martin
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Re: Increasing Metapost 4096 scrap limit

2009-12-01T08:26:19Z

It looks like the solution is to issue the following metapost command:

warningcheck := 0;

However adding it in a

code metapost

warningcheck := 0;

endcode

block seems to have no effect, mpost still fails on more then 4096 scraps.

Carl

On Nov 30, 2009, at 9:55 PM, Carl Magnuson wrote:

I am getting close to the limit of 4096 scraps for Metapost which is mentioned in the Therion book and I have ran into it in some cases. It looks like this is a setting in Metapost that must be changed and not Therion, but I was hoping maybe others had ran into this and knew what modifications are needed to Metapost to accept more scraps.

Thanks,

Carl

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Increasing Metapost 4096 scrap limit

2009-11-30T19:55:57Z

I am getting close to the limit of 4096 scraps for Metapost which is mentioned in the Therion book and I have ran into it in some cases. It looks like this is a setting in Metapost that must be changed and not Therion, but I was hoping maybe others had ran into this and knew what modifications are needed to Metapost to accept more scraps.

Thanks,

Carl
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Increasing Metapost 4096 scrap limit

2009-11-30T08:42:13Z

-station-names prefix suffix disable

2009-11-24T00:19:42Z

Is it possible to use -station-names <prefix> <suffix> within a scrap definition, and then disable it for only one or two stations that need to have a different prefix (connecting to a different survey).

I have tried using a group endgroup block within the scrap, but get

therion.exe: error -- PP-ParaphantaShaftPlan.th2 [248] -- unknown command – group

Bruce

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Shane Fryer/SEKI/NPS is out of the office.

2009-11-20T09:59:37Z

I will be out of the office starting 11/20/2009 and will not return until
12/19/2009.

I will respond to your message when I return.

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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-20T03:07:47Z

Problem from Carl:

Posted here http://mbug.dyndns.org/example/ are two thconfig files,
one with the scraps and one without and the generated PDF files. The
shot B009-B010 for example looks fine in the just centerline export,
but does not show up on the export from scraps (even though it has a
scrap which looks correct).

Analysis from Stacho:

All scraps has identical coordinates of stations and in several cases
neighboring scraps has identical distance between walls. Therion has
one hidden feature - it tries to join scraps automatically if there
is no command "join". And in some conditions the result is as in your
example. Therion "thought" two neighboring scraps are of one passage.
Stacho wrote me the shift of coordinates: for example 0-100, 1-101,
2-102 should help.

The problem at the end is in Carl data. (comment m.s.) :)

A note:

Don't use visibility on/off
but
subtype invisible
subtype bedrock

You may not use smooth off when there is no one bezier curve in your
data.

Correct data:

scrap example-11-18-th2
point 0 0 station -name B007
point 100 0 station -name B009
line wall -outline out -attr color "color col; col:=(.5,0,0);"
100 4.62962962962963
0 4.62962962962963
subtype invisible
0 -4.62962962962963
subtype bedrock
100 -4.62962962962963
endline
endscrap

scrap example-11-19-th2
point 1 0 station -name B009
point 101 0 station -name B010
line wall -outline out -attr color "color col; col:=(.5,0,0);"
101 4.62962962962963
1 4.62962962962963
subtype invisible
1 -4.62962962962963
subtype bedrock
101 -4.62962962962963
endline
endscrap

Several pictures illustrated the problem:

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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-16T22:19:52Z

You are saying there is something odd Therion is doing with the
calibration? I did try playing around with scale option to see if
that helped (no luck) and I also tried scaling the line sizes to be
shorter or longer (like 0 .5 1 .5 vs. 0 5 10 5) and the
latter seemed to increase the distortion, but scaling it down even
more didn't seem to have an impact.

Carl

On Nov 16, 2009, at 5:11 PM, Martin Sluka wrote:

> There is something very strange with the calibration of scraps.
> Check the files I created in traditional therion way based on yours
> ones :)
>
> m.
>
> <Picture 1.png><Picture 2.png><Picture
> 3.png><Archive.zip>_______________________________________________
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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-16T15:11:46Z

There is something very strange with the calibration of scraps. Check
the files I created in traditional therion way based on yours ones :)

m.

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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-16T14:21:30Z

I use english, but I took out all of my layout commands to make a
simpler example. I haven't decided to learn Czech through Therion at
least not yet :P

Carl

On Nov 16, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Martin Sluka wrote:

> BTW, way you use the Czech language for exported maps? :)
>
> m.
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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-16T14:08:44Z

BTW, way you use the Czech language for exported maps? :)

m.
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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-16T14:08:44Z

BTW, way you use the Czech language for exported maps? :)

m.
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Re: Therion book translation

2009-11-16T14:04:16Z

On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 11:01:15PM +0100, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:
> Well, translation changes could be better managed by using unified diffs
> among successive snapshots of the manuals and possibly a common VCS.
> A typical trick is adding a suitable comment in the TeX code to track
> reference english versions of each file. In that case, one could work
> on differences only, instead of re-reading the whole text. This is better
> done by CVS which has a per file versioning and is very effective for
> translation maintainership of multiple files.
>

Just to clarify, this is the way we maintain translation of Debian
webpages, and it works quite well or at least it allows minimizing
impact of changes to the original document for translators.

--
Francesco P. Lovergine
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Re: Therion book translation

2009-11-16T14:01:15Z

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 05:41:44PM +0100, Martin Budaj wrote:

> > Some people here could be interested in translating the Therion book in
> > italian in order to reduce the steepest learning curve for
> > speleo folks here. Is there any defined policy about that? Some common
> > repository or what else?
>
> Unfortunately not. Main problem is that thbook is being changed and
> updated quite often and we did not find any easy solution how to keep
> translations synchronized with the original. Although there were some
> attempts to use wiki for managing translation into Czech/Slovak, they
> were not really successful.
>
> Anyway, I would rather recommend tutorials like
> http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=tfc or
> http://therion.speleo.sk/wiki/doku.php?id=tbe for translation; thbook
> is mostly a reference not very well suitable for learning therion.
>

Well, translation changes could be better managed by using unified diffs
among successive snapshots of the manuals and possibly a common VCS.
A typical trick is adding a suitable comment in the TeX code to track
reference english versions of each file. In that case, one could work
on differences only, instead of re-reading the whole text. This is better
done by CVS which has a per file versioning and is very effective for
translation maintainership of multiple files.

--
Francesco P. Lovergine
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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-16T13:01:57Z

They were created by a program of mine I wrote to manage my survey
data. I'm surveying some tunnel systems with fairly simple walls (not
much in the way of curvature or features) where I want to generate
different walls off of LRUD data and not go to the effort of sketching
them myself in xtherion. For the example data I posted I changed the
wall type to just wall to make sure that it wasn't an issue with one
of the custom wall symbols I created (remove that variable from the
possible problems).

Carl

On Nov 16, 2009, at 2:39 PM, Martin Sluka wrote:

>
> On 16.11.2009, at 21:07, Carl Magnuson wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the suggestion but I don't think it would work in my
>> case - I simplified the data to show the problem I was having, but
>> I am actually making a number of different wall types from the LRUD
>> data and as I understand it Therion will only create regular walls
>> from LRUD data.
>
> What I don't understand is your scraps looked as directly created,
> without help of xtherion map editor. What was the reason?
>
> Therion will make walls from all lines with atribute -wall. You may
> use LRUD to generate the .xvi file (export map -o map_lrud.xvi) or
> to add splay points to sketched walls and therion will morf the
> sketches according the points, etc...
>
> m.
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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-16T12:40:21Z

On 16.11.2009, at 21:07, Carl Magnuson wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestion but I don't think it would work in my case

May you send me your data again, please. It looks the link doesn't
work now.

m.
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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-16T12:39:34Z

On 16.11.2009, at 21:07, Carl Magnuson wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestion but I don't think it would work in my
> case - I simplified the data to show the problem I was having, but
> I am actually making a number of different wall types from the LRUD
> data and as I understand it Therion will only create regular walls
> from LRUD data.

What I don't understand is your scraps looked as directly created,
without help of xtherion map editor. What was the reason?

Therion will make walls from all lines with atribute -wall. You may
use LRUD to generate the .xvi file (export map -o map_lrud.xvi) or to
add splay points to sketched walls and therion will morf the sketches
according the points, etc...

m.
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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-16T12:07:00Z

Thanks for the suggestion but I don't think it would work in my case -
I simplified the data to show the problem I was having, but I am
actually making a number of different wall types from the LRUD data
and as I understand it Therion will only create regular walls from
LRUD data.

Carl

On Nov 16, 2009, at 11:31 AM, ben@... wrote:

> Carl,
> I don't know why it doesn't work, but it appears you have created a
> program to produce walls based on the LRUD. Nice idea! But you can
> achieve similar just be asking Therion to output the LRUD data in the
> output map, which is much easier than what you are doing and great for
> that initial visualisation of the survey data. Therion also
> accurately
> reflects the Left-Right values entered, so the cave walls follow the
> centreline at the correct distances (eg where the centreline zigzigs
> from
> left wall to right wall).
> Regards,
> - Ben Cooper
>
>
>> I have been working on a larger cave and storing all the survey data
>> in my own program which exports to therion files. For a particular
>> survey the scraps are not being drawn correctly, but drawing just the
>> centerline from the survey data looks fine.
>>
>> Posted here http://mbug.dyndns.org/example/ are two thconfig files,
>> one with the scraps and one without and the generated PDF files. The
>> shot B009-B010 for example looks fine in the just centerline export,
>> but does not show up on the export from scraps (even though it has a
>> scrap which looks correct).
>>
>> Does anybody know why this would be happening? I do not see any
>> errors from therion, even running it with the -d flag, and it appears
>> to me that all the input data is formatted correctly.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Carl
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>>
>
>
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Re: Version Control Systems and Therion

2009-11-16T11:04:40Z

As people have realized, getting cavers to understand/use version
control systems at all is incredibly difficult.

While a distributed version control would be the best answer --
especially in the field -- they are impossible for normal people to
use. It will go wrong immediately, and people will get frustrated,
and give up.

I have had some success getting some non-techies to use TortoiseSVN
(they're all on Windows) and knowledgeforge, under the following
project:

http://knowledgeforge.net/project/sesame/

The majority of the data can be SVN checked out from:

http://knowledgeforge.net/sesame/club/mmmmc/

The files are broken into survex data, scans of survey drawings, and
tunnelx (sssssssss!) files.

The terms of use of this server is it's public data -- as it should
be. Personally, I believe there are very few reasons for cave data
not to be public, but you can't convince everyone about what is right.

If you look around the data on knowledgeforge, you will find that
club/hmg is password protected. This is because it is
http://www.hongmeigui.net/ data for Chinese caves, and there was a
recent government decree that made it illegal for foreigners to make
any maps in China. This is one of the very few legitimate reasons for
keeping cave data private.

If anyone wants to join knowledgeforge and upload sets of cave data, I
can add them to the project.

As I said, this particular platform has legs. That is, non-techie
cavers are routinely committing files to it. This is the big
breakthrough.

Julian.

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 9:50 PM, Bruce <dangle@...> wrote:

> Eighteen months ago there was some discussion about VCS that people were
> using with Therion. We have two largish projects and soon to be three people
> working on their own copies of the files that every now and again I try to
> merge into a coherent dataset.
>
>
>
> I suspect it’s well passed the time where we should have been using a VCS,
> but you know how it is. Sometimes it seems easier to run along pushing a
> bicycle than it is to take the time to choose an appropriate one, and hen
> learn to ride it.
>
>
>
> A few VCS options were mentioned, including bazaar http://bazaar-vcs.org/en/
> and subversion http://subversion.tigris.org/
>
>
>
> In an effort to get more local people involved and ease the learning curve
> for Therion newcomers I’m thinking that putting all our data on a web page
> and allowing those working on it to have ftp access. Bearing in mind that I
> have no experience with any type of automated version control (am
> downloading bazaar as I write this) is there any advice out there?
>
>
>
> Best VCS application to use?
>
> Are ease of use for learner computer users, ftp, Therion and VCS mutually
> exclusive? My (sheltered) experience with ftp so far is that it is no more
> complex than using files on a local disk. Is this a good route or should I
> try another path?
>
>
>
> Any feedback or advice welcomed.
>
> Cheers
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
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>
>

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Re: Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-16T09:31:50Z

Carl,
I don't know why it doesn't work, but it appears you have created a
program to produce walls based on the LRUD. Nice idea! But you can
achieve similar just be asking Therion to output the LRUD data in the
output map, which is much easier than what you are doing and great for
that initial visualisation of the survey data. Therion also accurately
reflects the Left-Right values entered, so the cave walls follow the
centreline at the correct distances (eg where the centreline zigzigs from
left wall to right wall).
Regards,
- Ben Cooper

> I have been working on a larger cave and storing all the survey data
> in my own program which exports to therion files. For a particular
> survey the scraps are not being drawn correctly, but drawing just the
> centerline from the survey data looks fine.
>
> Posted here http://mbug.dyndns.org/example/ are two thconfig files,
> one with the scraps and one without and the generated PDF files. The
> shot B009-B010 for example looks fine in the just centerline export,
> but does not show up on the export from scraps (even though it has a
> scrap which looks correct).
>
> Does anybody know why this would be happening? I do not see any
> errors from therion, even running it with the -d flag, and it appears
> to me that all the input data is formatted correctly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
>
> _______________________________________________
> Therion mailing list
> Therion@...
> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>

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Re: Version Control Systems and Therion

2009-11-16T06:09:08Z

Andrew Atkinson wrote:

> Bruce
>
> If you have beginners, I personally would stick to one that does have a
> central record somewhere, if you want to support decentralised systems
> fine, but set it up in a way that the beginners can just log onto the
> 'central' record and have to 'commit' every change. I have now tried
> using SVN with at least 3 sets of caving data. Trying to get people to
> understand a simple update and commit routine is hard enough, without
> the decentralised options, that I also find confusing. I would only go
> down that route for expeditions where it is difficult/impossible to talk
> to the central.

I have had that experience.
Getting people to use SVN is hard enough.

I'd say that to get it to work, the easiest path might
be https+svn. (password protected)
Getting people to use ssh can be an uphill battle.

But somebody needs to host the repository.
Using a public service may not be a good idea for survey data.

aaron

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Re: Version Control Systems and Therion

2009-11-16T06:05:57Z

Martin Lüthi wrote:

> Hi again
>
> At Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:49:46 -0700,
> Aaron Birenboim wrote:
>>> For the purpose of tracking files and exchanging them with collegues, only
>>> decentralized VC makes sense (maybe with a central repository, but that is not
>>> important). CVS is dead, SVN is not very good for that purpose.
>> Huh? That is the primary purpose of SVN, AFAIK.
>
> SVN is great for centralized data repositories. I used to use it for several
> years for all my data, basically synchronizing laptop and desktop, and
> collaboration on projects. The major drawback (for me) is that you need a
> connection to the server with the central repository to commit changes.

This can be a good thing. Easier for one person to set up
a server than many to establish peers.

> After having switched to git (any distributed VC such as hg or bzr will do), I
> commit every non-trivial editing/work step locally, and push to my repository
> (visible to my collaborators, and with daily backups) when I have reached a
> point where I think it's worth that the collaborators get it (usually daily).

Yes. a drawback of SVN is the branching.
I'm sure it is easier in GIT, but learning how to use it is tricky.

The Suggested SVN method is to work in a branch, commit
frequently, then merge back to trunk when you are ready to share.
Agreed, this is a pain. Inferior to CVS. I'm glad to hear
that GIT addresses this.

> Work on new features is done in local branches (very cheap with git),
> collaborators usually pull my master branch, and I pull theirs.
>
> Since there is no central repository, data exchange is less formal and
> easier. And (the killer argument for me): I have versioning on my local
> machine, without network connection (of course you can use CVS/RCS, but that
> does not make sense anymore given the new decentralized VC systems).

Yea. I often use RCS for local versioning.
Then again, I usually have a network, and update repositories
often (in branches).

>> I do agree that CVS is dead.
>> It was adequate, but it is no longer being supported.
>
>> SVN is still the most active Revision Control system out there.
>> I think you can set up an account on sourceforge.net for free.
>> I think their favorite system is SVN.
>
> Submitting cave survey data to sourceforge.net is dangerous. Sourceforge is
> world-visible, and I shure don't want the local caving-hero (advertising his
> caving adventures on the net, without any awe or scientific interest) to know
> all the details about new discoveries which are visible in plans.

I wasn't aware survey data was part of this repository.
Perhaps I missed part of the conversation.

I was thinking about the application source.

>> They might provide Trac too, which is a nice ticket/bug tracker
>> which integrates with SVN.
>
> Trac is nice, but I'm not shure how much we would need it for cave survey data
> (this is what we talk about, isn't it?).

Yea. for survey data, somebody would need to provide SVN over SSH.

> Using git, for example, you can publish your repository on any web server
> space (also password protected), or any shared area on your computer, and just
> send the URL to your peers. From there they pull your changes, and you can
> pull theirs from either their repositories, or form a centralized space such
> as github.com (same cautions as about sourceforge.net apply).

Fair enough. With those requirements, perhaps getting people to learn
GIT is worth the effort.

aaron

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Re: Version Control Systems and Therion

2009-11-16T01:28:01Z

Bruce

If you have beginners, I personally would stick to one that does have a
central record somewhere, if you want to support decentralised systems
fine, but set it up in a way that the beginners can just log onto the
'central' record and have to 'commit' every change. I have now tried
using SVN with at least 3 sets of caving data. Trying to get people to
understand a simple update and commit routine is hard enough, without
the decentralised options, that I also find confusing. I would only go
down that route for expeditions where it is difficult/impossible to talk
to the central.

If you need it I have a document showing beginner windows users how to
set up tortoiseSVN, but it is a few years only now, so the pictures are
certainly not the correct ones

Andrew

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Incorrectly Drawn Scraps

2009-11-15T17:39:41Z

I have been working on a larger cave and storing all the survey data
in my own program which exports to therion files. For a particular
survey the scraps are not being drawn correctly, but drawing just the
centerline from the survey data looks fine.

Posted here http://mbug.dyndns.org/example/ are two thconfig files,
one with the scraps and one without and the generated PDF files. The
shot B009-B010 for example looks fine in the just centerline export,
but does not show up on the export from scraps (even though it has a
scrap which looks correct).

Does anybody know why this would be happening? I do not see any
errors from therion, even running it with the -d flag, and it appears
to me that all the input data is formatted correctly.

Thanks,

Carl

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Re: Version Control Systems and Therion

2009-11-15T14:40:07Z

Hi again

At Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:49:46 -0700,
Aaron Birenboim wrote:
> > For the purpose of tracking files and exchanging them with collegues, only
> > decentralized VC makes sense (maybe with a central repository, but that is not
> > important). CVS is dead, SVN is not very good for that purpose.
>
> Huh? That is the primary purpose of SVN, AFAIK.

SVN is great for centralized data repositories. I used to use it for several
years for all my data, basically synchronizing laptop and desktop, and
collaboration on projects. The major drawback (for me) is that you need a
connection to the server with the central repository to commit changes.

After having switched to git (any distributed VC such as hg or bzr will do), I
commit every non-trivial editing/work step locally, and push to my repository
(visible to my collaborators, and with daily backups) when I have reached a
point where I think it's worth that the collaborators get it (usually daily).

Work on new features is done in local branches (very cheap with git),
collaborators usually pull my master branch, and I pull theirs.

Since there is no central repository, data exchange is less formal and
easier. And (the killer argument for me): I have versioning on my local
machine, without network connection (of course you can use CVS/RCS, but that
does not make sense anymore given the new decentralized VC systems).

> I do agree that CVS is dead.
> It was adequate, but it is no longer being supported.

> SVN is still the most active Revision Control system out there.
> I think you can set up an account on sourceforge.net for free.
> I think their favorite system is SVN.

Submitting cave survey data to sourceforge.net is dangerous. Sourceforge is
world-visible, and I shure don't want the local caving-hero (advertising his
caving adventures on the net, without any awe or scientific interest) to know
all the details about new discoveries which are visible in plans.

> They might provide Trac too, which is a nice ticket/bug tracker
> which integrates with SVN.

Trac is nice, but I'm not shure how much we would need it for cave survey data
(this is what we talk about, isn't it?).

Using git, for example, you can publish your repository on any web server
space (also password protected), or any shared area on your computer, and just
send the URL to your peers. From there they pull your changes, and you can
pull theirs from either their repositories, or form a centralized space such
as github.com (same cautions as about sourceforge.net apply).

Summary:
o version control is good (mandatory)
o decentralized version control is much better
o backups (long term) are a must

git (or hg, bzr) provide all of this

Best, Martin
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Re: Version Control Systems and Therion

2009-11-15T11:49:46Z

Martin Lüthi wrote:
> Hi
>
> At Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:48:09 +0300,
> Vasily Vl. Suhachev wrote:
>> We are using Mercurial distributed VCS...

> For the purpose of tracking files and exchanging them with collegues, only
> decentralized VC makes sense (maybe with a central repository, but that is not
> important). CVS is dead, SVN is not very good for that purpose.

Huh? That is the primary purpose of SVN, AFAIK.
I do agree that CVS is dead.
It was adequate, but it is no longer being supported.

> Two nice short introductions:
>
> http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~blynn/gitmagic/
> http://wiki.sourcemage.org/Git_Guide

My previous post may have been lost. I'll try again.

SVN is still the most active Revision Control system out there.
I think you can set up an account on sourceforge.net for free.
I think their favorite system is SVN.
They might provide Trac too, which is a nice ticket/bug tracker
which integrates with SVN.

aaron

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Re: Version Control Systems and Therion

2009-11-15T04:48:18Z

Hi

At Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:48:09 +0300,
Vasily Vl. Suhachev wrote:
> We are using Mercurial distributed VCS. Main repository maintained by
> myself, other contributors bring changes to me on flash-cards or send
> patch-files by email

OK, nobody has mentioned git yet, so I'll do it. Frankly I have never really
used bazaar or hg (mercurial), but all three are very similar in many respects.

For the purpose of tracking files and exchanging them with collegues, only
decentralized VC makes sense (maybe with a central repository, but that is not
important). CVS is dead, SVN is not very good for that purpose.

Two nice short introductions:

http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~blynn/gitmagic/
http://wiki.sourcemage.org/Git_Guide

Have fun

Martin
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Re: Version Control Systems and Therion

2009-11-15T02:11:48Z

Personally I am using bazaar. I think it is more question of if you need
centralized only or decentralized solution (with possibility to have
central place for "stable" branch). Main advantage of bazaar over
subversion is that people can have theirs own local "devel" branches
locally placed on laptops and can commit changes offline. For main data
repository FTP server can be used = no special needs on server side.
There is multiplatform GUI for bazaar - Olive.

Bruce napsal(a):

>
> Eighteen months ago there was some discussion about VCS that people
> were using with Therion. We have two largish projects and soon to be
> three people working on their own copies of the files that every now
> and again I try to merge into a coherent dataset.
>
> I suspect it’s well passed the time where we should have been using a
> VCS, but you know how it is. Sometimes it seems easier to run along
> pushing a bicycle than it is to take the time to choose an appropriate
> one, and hen learn to ride it.
>
> A few VCS options were mentioned, including bazaar
> http://bazaar-vcs.org/en/ and subversion http://subversion.tigris.org/
>
> In an effort to get more local people involved and ease the learning
> curve for Therion newcomers I’m thinking that putting all our data on
> a web page and allowing those working on it to have ftp access.
> Bearing in mind that I have no experience with any type of automated
> version control (am downloading bazaar as I write this) is there any
> advice out there?
>
> Best VCS application to use?
>
> Are ease of use for learner computer users, ftp, Therion and VCS
> mutually exclusive? My (sheltered) experience with ftp so far is that
> it is no more complex than using files on a local disk. Is this a good
> route or should I try another path?
>
> Any feedback or advice welcomed.
>
> Cheers
>
> Bruce
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Therion mailing list
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> http://mailman.speleo.sk/mailman/listinfo/therion
>

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Re: Version Control Systems and Therion

2009-11-14T23:48:09Z

Hello

We are using Mercurial distributed VCS. Main repository maintained by myself, other contributors bring changes to me on flash-cards or send patch-files by email

It is possible to get free mercurial hosting: http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/MercurialHosting

-- WBR, Vasily
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Version Control Systems and Therion

2009-11-14T13:50:58Z

Eighteen months ago there was some discussion about VCS that people were using with Therion. We have two largish projects and soon to be three people working on their own copies of the files that every now and again I try to merge into a coherent dataset.

I suspect it’s well passed the time where we should have been using a VCS, but you know how it is. Sometimes it seems easier to run along pushing a bicycle than it is to take the time to choose an appropriate one, and hen learn to ride it.

A few VCS options were mentioned, including bazaar http://bazaar-vcs.org/en/ and subversion http://subversion.tigris.org/

In an effort to get more local people involved and ease the learning curve for Therion newcomers I’m thinking that putting all our data on a web page and allowing those working on it to have ftp access. Bearing in mind that I have no experience with any type of automated version control (am downloading bazaar as I write this) is there any advice out there?

Best VCS application to use?

Are ease of use for learner computer users, ftp, Therion and VCS mutually exclusive? My (sheltered) experience with ftp so far is that it is no more complex than using files on a local disk. Is this a good route or should I try another path?

Any feedback or advice welcomed.

Cheers

Bruce

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Re: Therion book translation

2009-11-13T12:42:09Z

Or try OmegaT, which is free

m.

On 7.11.2009, at 10:13, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:

> Hi there
>
> Some people here could be interested in translating the Therion
> book in
> italian in order to reduce the steepest learning curve for
> speleo folks here. Is there any defined policy about that? Some common
> repository or what else?
>
> --
> Francesco P. Lovergine
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Re: 2D Output Scale Dependant Error -- metapost exit code -- 3

2009-11-13T12:04:19Z

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 2:55 AM, Bruce <dangle@...> wrote:
> My pdf map will create OK at scales of 1:500, 1:1000, 1:2000, 1:4000, but
> not 1:4500 (gives a single error as attached) nor 1:5000 to 1:6000 (gives
> many thousands of errors, 6MB and 13MB respectively).
>
> Interestingly 1:7500, 1:9000, 1:10,000 and 1:20,000 compile OK.

This has been fixed in 5.2.14.

All users: previous fix in 5.2.13 introduced another bug in slope
symbol; please upgrade to 5.2.14 if you are using 5.2.13.

Martin
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Re: Therion book translation

2009-11-11T23:33:17Z

I think the only real way is to use a "translation program"
translators use to translate texts they are changed but only
partially and they use identical phrases - for example user guides.

One product I know it is widely used is trados: http://www.trados.com/
en/

The main part of work is to define the "knowledge base" for
particular project.

Martin

On 7.11.2009, at 10:13, Francesco Paolo Lovergine wrote:

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