Why not? It just looks messy and abandoned for all the new people seeking answers.
How can eGW attract interest as an open source package if the forums appear dodgy. It's the first thing potential users check.
Bugzilla from sgrayban@gmail.com wrote:
They can be filtered out but the maintainer doesn't want to do that.
I wouldn't go as far as saying it's laziness but definitely the spam is getting worse.
Would an upgrade to Nabble2 facilitate the spamfiltering process? There is soo much good info in here and its a shame to let it get diluted with crap.
I"m happy to sit and click "Mark as Spam" for a few hours as a volunteer. I've certainly benefited enough from eGW and this forum over the years to warrant the time.
Bugzilla from sgrayban@gmail.com wrote:
laziness maybe ? or simply has no idea how to admin the list correctly
.
Perhaps if there were some way the admin could be paid for the task? ;-)
I wouldn't go as far as saying it's laziness but definitely the spam is getting worse.
Would an upgrade to Nabble2 facilitate the spamfiltering process? There is soo much good info in here and its a shame to let it get diluted with crap.
I"m happy to sit and click "Mark as Spam" for a few hours as a volunteer. I've certainly benefited enough from eGW and this forum over the years to warrant the time.
Bugzilla from sgrayban@gmail.com wrote:
laziness maybe ? or simply has no idea how to admin the list correctly
haha, but it's not in the commercial businesses best interest to make it too easy to learn or implement the software since it takes away their own opportunity to provide paid support.
On several occasions when I've asked if a feature exists on this forum, or if a feature could be considered, it's been met with a "no, but if you purchase this support plan maybe we can help you". I looked at the pricing structure and also the docs to see if I could find out myself, and it just peeved me that the support docs are so flakey and incomplete for something claiming to be open-source.
Cleaning out the forums and making the wiki rock solid will say to the community that this is genuinely open software, and not some forgotten branch of a "better" commercial product, as it seems to be now.
Bugzilla from sgrayban@gmail.com wrote:
hah that's funny considering this project is co-spomsored by a
commercial business as it is. And second the wiki docs aren't even right
and even missing info and when I pointed that out I was told "what do
you expect for a free GPL program" so I have no intention to pay for
anyone to stop spam. Fix the outdated and missing docs and maybe we will.
Please note my answer to the similar question 3 days ago.
I'm not going to answer to the nonsense accusation, the admins of
EGroupware project want the spam on their lists or forums.
Ralf
Xenomorph schrieb:
> Is it not possible to keep the retarded spam and "sex" messages off of here?
>
> I have no idea if things are really active here or if its just an abandoned
> spam trap with all the junk messages.
>
>
>
Geschäftsführer Andre Keller, Gudrun Müller,
Nigel Vickers und Ralf Becker
Registergericht Kaiserslautern HRB 30575
Umsatzsteuer-Id / VAT-Id: DE214280951
Hi Manfred,
there's in fact a difference in the configuration: We (have to) allow
anonymous posts for unsubscribed people. That is necessary to work
together with the nabble forum.
If I switch the list to require a subscription, we get a split from the
nabble forum, as users subscribed only to nabble, will be bounced by the
sf.net lists.
I'm thinking about moving the lists as well as the forum to google
groups. I know some projects that moved there lists/forums to google
groups and I haven't seen any spam on there lists. That would also allow
to switch subscription required on and give us in some aspects more in
other less control over the lists.
Ralf
Manfred Usselmann schrieb:
> On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 20:31:29 +0200
> Ralf Becker <rb@...> wrote:
>
>> The lists are run by www.sourceforge.net, not by EGroupware project or
>> Stylite GmbH.
>>
>> Feel free to contact them ...
>
> I'm also subscribed to other lists from sourceforge.net, where this
> problem does not exist. E.g. jEdit users und developments lists have a
> similiar volume and no spam whatsoever.
>
> Maybe the other lists are configured differently...
>
> Manfred
>
>> Lannehoa Yves schrieb:
>>> Hello
>>>
>>> There is many many spams on this list. How is it possible ? No way to
>>> banish them ? This is a real problem.
>>>
>>> YL
>
Okaaay.. . I'll bite before you disappear in my "Spam Filter Rule Filter"...
Which "Zero False Negative", "Zero False Positive", "Moderation Free",
"capable of working in 26 Languages" , "allowing unregistered Posting
System" are you going to try and sell to the Lists?
Nigel
Scott Grayban schrieb:
> They do not care what you or anyone else thinks or says.
>
> This is why eGroupware will never be what it can be and they intend to
> hold it *hostage* and force you to pay those ridiculous support fees
> that may or may not help anyone for a free program that has shitty docs.
>
> Yup that sounds retarded to me.
>
>
> gholm said the following on 07/02/2009 12:16 AM:
>
>> haha, but it's not in the commercial businesses best interest to make it too
>> easy to learn or implement the software since it takes away their own
>> opportunity to provide paid support.
>>
>> On several occasions when I've asked if a feature exists on this forum, or
>> if a feature could be considered, it's been met with a "no, but if you
>> purchase this support plan maybe we can help you". I looked at the pricing
>> structure and also the docs to see if I could find out myself, and it just
>> peeved me that the support docs are so flakey and incomplete for something
>> claiming to be open-source.
>>
>> Cleaning out the forums and making the wiki rock solid will say to the
>> community that this is genuinely open software, and not some forgotten
>> branch of a "better" commercial product, as it seems to be now.
>>
>>
>> Bugzilla from sgrayban@... wrote:
>>
>>
>>> hah that's funny considering this project is co-spomsored by a
>>> commercial business as it is. And second the wiki docs aren't even right
>>> and even missing info and when I pointed that out I was told "what do
>>> you expect for a free GPL program" so I have no intention to pay for
>>> anyone to stop spam. Fix the outdated and missing docs and maybe we will.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> -----
>> http://www.promotionstudios.com >>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> eGroupWare-users mailing list
> eGroupWare-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/egroupware-users >
Scott - Stop whinging. Yes, your point is a valid one, but all that I'm
hearing is rage. Given that we all have limited resources, some priorities
need to be made. _I_ would rather see the 1.6.002 release and new SyncML
patches out the door in the next two weeks than a pristine forum.
There have been more constructive suggestions.
>I"m happy to sit and click "Mark as Spam" for a few hours as a volunteer.
As am I.
> but it's not in the commercial businesses best interest to make it too
> easy to learn or implement the software since it takes away their own
> opportunity to provide paid support.
Actually, it _is_ in their interest. Satisfied customers spread the word.
Satisfied users consider whether commercial support is within their budget.
Making it harder to use is a long-term strategy for losing customers.
Ralf - The forums are your window shop. A good, healthy user community
attracts more users and a culture of self help improves the product and
reduces the burden of support. It needs to be someone's top priority, but it
doesn't have to be yours. Ask for volunteers and delegate.
best wishes to all,
--
Boyd Duffee Keele University (01782) 734225
Student Facing Systems, ABc DeF Ghi(J) KLMN OPQ RStU VwX YZ
Pushing the stapler of cutting edge technology.
> Allow me to moderate.
>
> Scott - Stop whinging. Yes, your point is a valid one, but all that I'm
> hearing is rage. Given that we all have limited resources, some priorities
> need to be made. _I_ would rather see the 1.6.002 release and new SyncML
> patches out the door in the next two weeks than a pristine forum.
>
> There have been more constructive suggestions.
>
> >I"m happy to sit and click "Mark as Spam" for a few hours as a volunteer.
>
> As am I.
Please do so, I gave an explanation what to do in my post "Who moderates
EGroupware forums".
> > but it's not in the commercial businesses best interest to make it too
> > easy to learn or implement the software since it takes away their own
> > opportunity to provide paid support.
>
> Actually, it _is_ in their interest. Satisfied customers spread the word.
> Satisfied users consider whether commercial support is within their budget.
> Making it harder to use is a long-term strategy for losing customers.
As most people and organisations, EGroupware project and it's main
Sponsor Stylite has limited resources. A lot more limited as I wish.
Therefore we can only deduct a certain amount of our resources to free
support on the forums or lists. We also have to charge for our
professional services and make them distinct (better) from what we
offers are part of the open source project for free.
We are otherwise not able to make our living and continue to develop and
improve EGroupware. It's simple as that.
> Ralf - The forums are your window shop. A good, healthy user community
> attracts more users and a culture of self help improves the product and
> reduces the burden of support. It needs to be someone's top priority, but it
> doesn't have to be yours. Ask for volunteers and delegate.
With the Nabble forums there's nothing to delegate. All moderation is
done via it's rating feature. Only thing a forum admin can do is change
eg. name of the forum, which is no need to delegate or change.
I already wrote a few times about the technical reasons why we choose
that current combination from sf.net mailing lists and this Nabble
forum. It has some principle problems, based on the fact it is two
separate system and we have to configure them to accept posts from each
other, without forcing everyone to subscribe to both.
It's on my mid term plans to move EGroupware forums/lists to Google
Groups, which also allows to use a mailing list and a forum interface,
in one system. So we can require people to subscribe before posting and
there spam filtering seems to be ways better.
And please do not start a discussion which one is better: a mailing list
or a forum!
Why don't they just use a regular message forum like the million other
sites out there?
I'm getting a bunch of "Sex" spam emails now because I'm on this list.
On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Fossil<nigel@...> wrote:
> Okaaay.. . I'll bite before you disappear in my "Spam Filter Rule Filter"...
>
> Which "Zero False Negative", "Zero False Positive", "Moderation Free",
> "capable of working in 26 Languages" , "allowing unregistered Posting
> System" are you going to try and sell to the Lists?
>
> Nigel
>
> Scott Grayban schrieb:
>> They do not care what you or anyone else thinks or says.
>>
>> This is why eGroupware will never be what it can be and they intend to
>> hold it *hostage* and force you to pay those ridiculous support fees
>> that may or may not help anyone for a free program that has shitty docs.
>>
>> Yup that sounds retarded to me.
>>
>>
>> gholm said the following on 07/02/2009 12:16 AM:
>>
>>> haha, but it's not in the commercial businesses best interest to make it too
>>> easy to learn or implement the software since it takes away their own
>>> opportunity to provide paid support.
>>>
>>> On several occasions when I've asked if a feature exists on this forum, or
>>> if a feature could be considered, it's been met with a "no, but if you
>>> purchase this support plan maybe we can help you". I looked at the pricing
>>> structure and also the docs to see if I could find out myself, and it just
>>> peeved me that the support docs are so flakey and incomplete for something
>>> claiming to be open-source.
>>>
>>> Cleaning out the forums and making the wiki rock solid will say to the
>>> community that this is genuinely open software, and not some forgotten
>>> branch of a "better" commercial product, as it seems to be now.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bugzilla from sgrayban@... wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> hah that's funny considering this project is co-spomsored by a
>>>> commercial business as it is. And second the wiki docs aren't even right
>>>> and even missing info and when I pointed that out I was told "what do
>>>> you expect for a free GPL program" so I have no intention to pay for
>>>> anyone to stop spam. Fix the outdated and missing docs and maybe we will.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> -----
>>> http://www.promotionstudios.com >>>
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> eGroupWare-users mailing list
>> eGroupWare-users@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/egroupware-users >>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> eGroupWare-users mailing list
> eGroupWare-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/egroupware-users >
Because there are users of this "service", which prefer a mailing list
interface over a sole forum interface.
I know that there is a never ending discussion which of both is better.
I dont want to start that, we simply want to support both. So far Nabble
was a workable compromise.
Maybe Google Groups or xyz is better, thought trying out an other
service is nothing you do just by snipping with your fingers. It takes
time to migrate the 20 forums and a few thousand subscribers from sf.net
(thought the ones from Nabble can NOT be exported) to ANY other service.
Ralf
Nick schrieb:
> Why don't they just use a regular message forum like the million other
> sites out there?
>
> I'm getting a bunch of "Sex" spam emails now because I'm on this list.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 2, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Fossil<nigel@...> wrote:
>> Okaaay.. . I'll bite before you disappear in my "Spam Filter Rule Filter"...
>>
>> Which "Zero False Negative", "Zero False Positive", "Moderation Free",
>> "capable of working in 26 Languages" , "allowing unregistered Posting
>> System" are you going to try and sell to the Lists?
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>> Scott Grayban schrieb:
>>> They do not care what you or anyone else thinks or says.
>>>
>>> This is why eGroupware will never be what it can be and they intend to
>>> hold it *hostage* and force you to pay those ridiculous support fees
>>> that may or may not help anyone for a free program that has shitty docs.
>>>
>>> Yup that sounds retarded to me.
>>>
>>>
>>> gholm said the following on 07/02/2009 12:16 AM:
>>>
>>>> haha, but it's not in the commercial businesses best interest to make it too
>>>> easy to learn or implement the software since it takes away their own
>>>> opportunity to provide paid support.
>>>>
>>>> On several occasions when I've asked if a feature exists on this forum, or
>>>> if a feature could be considered, it's been met with a "no, but if you
>>>> purchase this support plan maybe we can help you". I looked at the pricing
>>>> structure and also the docs to see if I could find out myself, and it just
>>>> peeved me that the support docs are so flakey and incomplete for something
>>>> claiming to be open-source.
>>>>
>>>> Cleaning out the forums and making the wiki rock solid will say to the
>>>> community that this is genuinely open software, and not some forgotten
>>>> branch of a "better" commercial product, as it seems to be now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bugzilla from sgrayban@... wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> hah that's funny considering this project is co-spomsored by a
>>>>> commercial business as it is. And second the wiki docs aren't even right
>>>>> and even missing info and when I pointed that out I was told "what do
>>>>> you expect for a free GPL program" so I have no intention to pay for
>>>>> anyone to stop spam. Fix the outdated and missing docs and maybe we will.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> http://www.promotionstudios.com >>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> eGroupWare-users mailing list
>>> eGroupWare-users@... >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/egroupware-users >>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> eGroupWare-users mailing list
>> eGroupWare-users@... >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/egroupware-users >>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> eGroupWare-users mailing list
> eGroupWare-users@... > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/egroupware-users
