Tkhtml with Apple's Tk?

[Jerry LeVan]

Snow Leopard seems to have damaged my main app ( WxPython) for accessing
Postgresql Databases...

So, I have gone back to some of my earlier Tcl/Tk efforts and have been
trying to 'spiffify' the rascals.

One sticky point is the display of html based docs.

Apples Tcl package has neither Tkhtml 2 or Tkthml 3.

It turns out that the version 2 of Tkhtml has just enough
capability to display the simple html that I have ( in
particular the Postgresql documentation).

The 'hv' proc was easy to setup and point to the html doc
files.

I have active state's Tcl/Tk installed on some of my boxen
(linux and apple) and it appears to have Tkhtml 2 available
and it works with my app.

However I really would like to get a 'fat' package that works
with Apples' Tcl/Tk...

Does anyone have a recipe and source that even an aged burnt out
geezer could follow to build Tkhtml2 ?

Thanks,

Jerry



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[Kevin Walzer-5]

On 9/22/09 9:08 AM, Jerry LeVan wrote:

> Snow Leopard seems to have damaged my main app ( WxPython) for accessing
> Postgresql Databases...
>
> So, I have gone back to some of my earlier Tcl/Tk efforts and have been
> trying to 'spiffify' the rascals.
>
> One sticky point is the display of html based docs.
>
> Apples Tcl package has neither Tkhtml 2 or Tkthml 3.
>
> It turns out that the version 2 of Tkhtml has just enough
> capability to display the simple html that I have ( in
> particular the Postgresql documentation).
>
> The 'hv' proc was easy to setup and point to the html doc
> files.
>
> I have active state's Tcl/Tk installed on some of my boxen
> (linux and apple) and it appears to have Tkhtml 2 available
> and it works with my app.
>
> However I really would like to get a 'fat' package that works
> with Apples' Tcl/Tk...
>
> Does anyone have a recipe and source that even an aged burnt out
> geezer could follow to build Tkhtml2 ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry
>
>

Jerry,

I've been working on this very problem and can report success. I'll
follow up shortly with instructions and a link to source so you can try
building it yourself.

--Kevin
--
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com

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[Kevin Walzer-5]

On 9/22/09 9:08 AM, Jerry LeVan wrote:

> Snow Leopard seems to have damaged my main app ( WxPython) for accessing
> Postgresql Databases...
>
> So, I have gone back to some of my earlier Tcl/Tk efforts and have been
> trying to 'spiffify' the rascals.
>
> One sticky point is the display of html based docs.
>
> Apples Tcl package has neither Tkhtml 2 or Tkthml 3.
>
> It turns out that the version 2 of Tkhtml has just enough
> capability to display the simple html that I have ( in
> particular the Postgresql documentation).
>
> The 'hv' proc was easy to setup and point to the html doc
> files.
>
> I have active state's Tcl/Tk installed on some of my boxen
> (linux and apple) and it appears to have Tkhtml 2 available
> and it works with my app.
>
> However I really would like to get a 'fat' package that works
> with Apples' Tcl/Tk...
>
> Does anyone have a recipe and source that even an aged burnt out
> geezer could follow to build Tkhtml2 ?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jerry
>

Jerry,

Ok, I've packaged this up. Let me know if it works:

http://www.codebykevin.com/opensource/TkHTML-OSX-Cmake.zip

Pay close attention to the steps outlined in
"instructions-for-buidling-on-macosx.txt." I've been able to get a
successful build using these. The initial steps were outlined by
Georgios Petasis, developer of Ellogon (petasis@...), to
whom I extend thanks. I've also added additional information that I
discovered when doing the build. I am using install_name_tool to link
the TkHtml dylibs against embedded frameworks in my standalone apps, and
I also had to modify hv.tcl to work around some scrolling issues that I
noticed.

What's very important to remember is that the build instructions aren't
based on the usual configure; make; make steps. These use a different
build system called Cmake. There's a Mac version available from
http://www.cmake.org/.  Be sure to install it and take a quick look at
the documentation.

TkHTML 2 is pretty much impossible to build the old-fashioned way; its
build system dates back to 2002, and things have evolved a lot since
then. I couldn't get it to build that way no matter how many things I
tried. It only took me a couple of tries to get it right with Cmake. So,
that's where I'm staying.

Please report back. If you are successful with it, I'll make the archive
more publicly available with a link from my main website.

For what it's worth, this package is licensed under the LGPL--see the
"copying" file in the source tree.

Thanks,
Kevin

--
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com

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[Jeff Hobbs]

Is there a reason not to have done this work based on tkhtml3?  Andreas
assisted in porting this to a TEA-based system and you can actually find
it in the teapot.  Although it's not considered final, I would think it
would be a better starting point for future work.

Jeff

On 22/09/2009 8:11 AM, Kevin Walzer wrote:

> On 9/22/09 9:08 AM, Jerry LeVan wrote:
>> Snow Leopard seems to have damaged my main app ( WxPython) for accessing
>> Postgresql Databases...
>>
>> So, I have gone back to some of my earlier Tcl/Tk efforts and have been
>> trying to 'spiffify' the rascals.
>>
>> One sticky point is the display of html based docs.
>>
>> Apples Tcl package has neither Tkhtml 2 or Tkthml 3.
>>
>> It turns out that the version 2 of Tkhtml has just enough
>> capability to display the simple html that I have ( in
>> particular the Postgresql documentation).
>>
>> The 'hv' proc was easy to setup and point to the html doc
>> files.
>>
>> I have active state's Tcl/Tk installed on some of my boxen
>> (linux and apple) and it appears to have Tkhtml 2 available
>> and it works with my app.
>>
>> However I really would like to get a 'fat' package that works
>> with Apples' Tcl/Tk...
>>
>> Does anyone have a recipe and source that even an aged burnt out
>> geezer could follow to build Tkhtml2 ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>
> Jerry,
>
> Ok, I've packaged this up. Let me know if it works:
>
> http://www.codebykevin.com/opensource/TkHTML-OSX-Cmake.zip
>
> Pay close attention to the steps outlined in
> "instructions-for-buidling-on-macosx.txt." I've been able to get a
> successful build using these. The initial steps were outlined by
> Georgios Petasis, developer of Ellogon (petasis@...), to
> whom I extend thanks. I've also added additional information that I
> discovered when doing the build. I am using install_name_tool to link
> the TkHtml dylibs against embedded frameworks in my standalone apps, and
> I also had to modify hv.tcl to work around some scrolling issues that I
> noticed.
>
> What's very important to remember is that the build instructions aren't
> based on the usual configure; make; make steps. These use a different
> build system called Cmake. There's a Mac version available from
> http://www.cmake.org/.  Be sure to install it and take a quick look at
> the documentation.
>
> TkHTML 2 is pretty much impossible to build the old-fashioned way; its
> build system dates back to 2002, and things have evolved a lot since
> then. I couldn't get it to build that way no matter how many things I
> tried. It only took me a couple of tries to get it right with Cmake. So,
> that's where I'm staying.
>
> Please report back. If you are successful with it, I'll make the archive
> more publicly available with a link from my main website.
>
> For what it's worth, this package is licensed under the LGPL--see the
> "copying" file in the source tree.
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>

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[Kevan Hashemi]

Dear Jeff,

> Is there a reason not to have done this work based on tkhtml3?  Andreas
> assisted in porting this to a TEA-based system and you can actually find
> it in the teapot.

I have looked into using the teapot repository, and I found it to be
impractical for my purposes. If I could figure out how to get the teapot
extensions loaded into an embedded version of Tcl/Tk on Windows, Linux,
and MacOS, I'd be very happy. I am sure it can be done, but the Active
State installers give me a Tcl/Tk that takes ten or twenty minutes of
fiddling with before it becomes stand-alone. On MacOS, I compile from
sources using "make embedded". Furthermore, every new version of Tcl/Tk
requires a slightly different ten or twenty minutes of fiddling, so the
total time I must dedicate to upgrading from, say, 8.5.2 to 8.5.7 on all
three platforms, amounts to several full days of work.

The upshot is that I have chosen not to include, for example, tkhtml and
the img packages in my distribution. I have text-only help and my
routines can't read jpg files.

So, if there's a multi-platform way of incorporating TEA=based
extensions into embedded (stand-alone) versions of Tcl/Tk, I'm all for
it. I just don't know how to do it yet, and that's why I'm interested in
Kevin W's from-source compile of tkhtml2.

Yours, Kevan

--
Kevan Hashemi, Electrical Engineer
Physics Department, Brandeis University
http://alignment.hep.brandeis.edu/

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[Jeff Hobbs]

On 22/09/2009 10:50 AM, Kevan Hashemi wrote:
> So, if there's a multi-platform way of incorporating TEA=based
> extensions into embedded (stand-alone) versions of Tcl/Tk, I'm all for
> it. I just don't know how to do it yet, and that's why I'm interested in
> Kevin W's from-source compile of tkhtml2.

That is what TDK is for.

Jeff

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[Kevan Hashemi]

Dear Jeff,

> That is what TDK is for.

Oh. How interesting. Released in October 2008, just after the last time
I upgraded my Tcl/Tk version. It, "Kill bugs fast with the
cross-platform graphical debugger." That sounds awesome. I will consider
getting a license and moving over to to TDK.

Apart from TDK, I don't see a way to include tkhtml and img in a
three-platform distribution.

Yours, Kevan

--
Kevan Hashemi, Electrical Engineer
Physics Department, Brandeis University
http://alignment.hep.brandeis.edu/

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[Jeff Hobbs]

On 22/09/2009 11:27 AM, Kevan Hashemi wrote:
>> That is what TDK is for.
>
> Oh. How interesting. Released in October 2008, just after the last time
> I upgraded my Tcl/Tk version. It, "Kill bugs fast with the
> cross-platform graphical debugger." That sounds awesome. I will consider
> getting a license and moving over to to TDK.

Note that you can try the Tcl Dev Kit for 3 weeks for free.

> Apart from TDK, I don't see a way to include tkhtml and img in a
> three-platform distribution.

I know that wrapping Img works, but I've never tried tkhtml myself.
TDK5's TclApp actually supports cross-platform wrapping, so if you have
a working TclApp project file, it should be possible to just target a
different OS and magically it would work.  Hopefully it does.  ;)
Seriously, there is lots of tricky bits on that functionality, and we
haven't covered all corner cases.  In any case you can wrap native on
the platforms you need.

My guess is the reason there aren't other tools for this is because it
is a hard problem.  Even for more popular languages like Python and
Perl, you have solutions that don't even have the elegance that Tcl's
vfs gives and very few offerings that do wrapping.

Jeff

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[Kevin Walzer-5]

On 9/22/09 12:48 PM, Jeff Hobbs wrote:
> Is there a reason not to have done this work based on tkhtml3?  Andreas
> assisted in porting this to a TEA-based system and you can actually find
> it in the teapot. Although it's not considered final, I would think it
> would be a better starting point for future work.
>
> Jeff

Jeff,

There are several reasons:

1. First, my specific requirements are for a 64-bit, four-way universal
binary build of some version of tkhtml that linked against Tk-Cocoa,
since that's the direction my applications are moving in. I only saw a
32-bit universal binary of tkhtml 3.

2. Is the source for Andreas' updates available anywhere, at SF or
elsewhere? I only see binaries at the teapot. I actually tried to build
the last publicly available version of the tkhtml 3 source code using
configure, make, etc. against the Tk-Cocoa source tree, but I couldn't
get it to work.

3. My source for the TkHTML 2/Cmake is Georgios Patasis--that's what
he's using. If he were using tkhtml3 I probably would be using that as
well.

4. I have prior experience with using tkhtml 2 and hv.tcl, and since
that's working, I'm comfortable staying with that. Tkhtml 3 is a much
more complicated beast.

Thanks,
Kevin



--
Kevin Walzer
Code by Kevin
http://www.codebykevin.com

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[Jerry LeVan]

On Sep 22, 2009, at 5:37 PM, Kevin Walzer wrote:

> On 9/22/09 12:48 PM, Jeff Hobbs wrote:
>> Is there a reason not to have done this work based on tkhtml3?  
>> Andreas
>> assisted in porting this to a TEA-based system and you can actually  
>> find
>> it in the teapot. Although it's not considered final, I would think  
>> it
>> would be a better starting point for future work.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Jeff,
>
> There are several reasons:
>
> 1. First, my specific requirements are for a 64-bit, four-way  
> universal
> binary build of some version of tkhtml that linked against Tk-Cocoa,
> since that's the direction my applications are moving in. I only saw a
> 32-bit universal binary of tkhtml 3.
>
> 2. Is the source for Andreas' updates available anywhere, at SF or
> elsewhere? I only see binaries at the teapot. I actually tried to  
> build
> the last publicly available version of the tkhtml 3 source code using
> configure, make, etc. against the Tk-Cocoa source tree, but I couldn't
> get it to work.
>
> 3. My source for the TkHTML 2/Cmake is Georgios Patasis--that's what
> he's using. If he were using tkhtml3 I probably would be using that as
> well.
>
> 4. I have prior experience with using tkhtml 2 and hv.tcl, and since
> that's working, I'm comfortable staying with that. Tkhtml 3 is a much
> more complicated beast.
>
> Thanks,
> Kevin

+1

Jerry


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[Andreas Kupries-2]

Kevin Walzer wrote:

> On 9/22/09 12:48 PM, Jeff Hobbs wrote:
>> Is there a reason not to have done this work based on tkhtml3?  Andreas
>> assisted in porting this to a TEA-based system and you can actually find
>> it in the teapot. Although it's not considered final, I would think it
>> would be a better starting point for future work.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Jeff,
>
> There are several reasons:
>
> 1. First, my specific requirements are for a 64-bit, four-way universal
> binary build of some version of tkhtml that linked against Tk-Cocoa,
> since that's the direction my applications are moving in. I only saw a
> 32-bit universal binary of tkhtml 3.

Correct, we (AS) are building only 32-bit Carbon, so far.

> 2. Is the source for Andreas' updates available anywhere, at SF or

Eh ? The TEA build system of v3, which is what Jeff talked about above is in
tkhtml v3's CVS (**). It is based on TEA 3.5.

This may not have all the recent fixes and changes made by Daniel Steffen to
allow compilation for 64bit and/or against cocoa. I don't know for sure, and
have added Daniel to the list of recipients.

(**) http://tkhtml.tcl.tk/#part2

> elsewhere? I only see binaries at the teapot. I actually tried to build
> the last publicly available version of the tkhtml 3 source code using

Is that the same as the CVS head (which I just looked at) ?

> configure, make, etc. against the Tk-Cocoa source tree, but I couldn't
> get it to work.

--
Sincerely,
     Andreas Kupries <andreas@...>
     Developer @    <http://www.activestate.com/>

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[Uwe Koloska]

Hello Kevan,

Am Dienstag, 22. September 2009 schrieb Kevan Hashemi:
> So, if there's a multi-platform way of incorporating TEA=based
> extensions into embedded (stand-alone) versions of Tcl/Tk, I'm all for
> it. I just don't know how to do it yet, and that's why I'm interested in
> Kevin W's from-source compile of tkhtml2.

There is no need to require TEA-based extensions.  You only need a TCL package
and it is irrelevant how it is build.  I have build an application and
packaged it specifically for Linux, Windows and Mac OS X (universal).

  http://bible2.net/content/download/apps/koloska_daswort
(unfortunately the page is german only, but you can easily find the three
packages for the supported platforms)

It includes two all plattform binary packages (tdom and Img) and Daniels
wonderful OS bindings
  tclCarbonHICommand-1.0  tclCarbonNotification-1.0  tclCarbonProcesses-1.0

My application platform is tclkit (that is roughly the same as ActiveTcls
base-kits!).  My build system follows this receipt:

- build a starkit with all libraries for all supported platforms (this is for
interntal use only, for I only distribute starpacks)

- create starpacks for linux and windows and a special starkit for OSX and
delete binary libraries for the other platforms from them.

- the windows and linux starpacks include all that is needed for the platform
(for example the icon and app-info on windows) so the executable is all that
is needed to run the application

- for OSX I prepared an application bundle that includes all necessary
information to make the starpack a real OSX application.

Because you are especially interested in the OSX version I will describe this
app-bundle in detail.

What you need:
- a starkit with OSX versions of all included binary packages
- a tclkit that supports the OSX versions you need (maybe you need more than
one tclkit if you want to support Cocoa)

Now you can prepare your app bundle:
TWord.app/
  Contents/
    Info.plist                         OSX informations (see Kevins page)
  MacOS/
    tclkit                             the Runtime (universal)
    TWord                              start script (see below)
  Resources/
    lib/                               Mac specific libraries not in starkit
      tclCarbonHICommand-1.0/
      tclCarbonNotification-1.0/
      tclCarbonProcesses-1.0/
    TWord.icns                         application icons
    tword.kit                          the starkit

All the platform magic is in this directory structure, the "Info.plist" and
the start script "TWord":
---------------------------------------------
#! /bin/sh

dir=`dirname $0`
exec $dir/tclkit $dir/../Resources/tword.kit
---------------------------------------------
That is enough to use the included tclkit to start the starkit. The OSX
startup code for TCL magically includes "Contents/Resources/lib" to it's
auto_path so you can load any library from there with just
  package require tclCarbonHICommand

I have done this for an internal project with Tkhtml3 from teapot, too. But
this was only tested on PPC-Tiger. The tword application is tested on
PPC-Tiger and intel-Leopard.

If you don't need the tclkit mumbo jumbo, this should work with a standard
wish application bundle, for the auto_path is initialized there, too.

If you need more information, download the application and inspect the
application bundle.  Feel free to ask any question, but don't expect me to
answer them all ;-)

Hope this helps!
Uwe

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[Kevan Hashemi]

Dear Uwe,

Thank you for your instructions.

 > The OSX
> startup code for TCL magically includes "Contents/Resources/lib" to it's
> auto_path so you can load any library from there with just
>   package require tclCarbonHICommand

I'll try some of these ideas in my own LWDAQ.app bundle, which serves as
my structure for all three platforms.

Yours, Kevan

--
Kevan Hashemi, Electrical Engineer
Physics Department, Brandeis University
http://alignment.hep.brandeis.edu/

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