Too many default webjumps

[Deniz Dogan-3]

I think there are too many default webjumps in Conkeror.

The ones I would like to have removed as defaults are the following:
* "lucky" - is more of an unfortunate naming for a special Google
search.  Maybe this shouldn't be removed but rather renamed to
something else.
* "scholar" - is not probable to be used by many users.
* "xulplanet" - doesn't exist anymore.
* "cliki" and "clhs" - should be removed because they are only useful
for Common Lisp coders.  If they are kept, it is in itself a
motivation for adding e.g. Hoogle (Haskell), Boost (C++), etc. as
default webjumps.
* "ratpoisonwiki" and "stumpwmwiki" - should be removed because they
are only useful for users of those particular window managers.  The
same idea applies here: if we keep them, we would be obliged to add
any other window manager wiki as a default webjump.
* "savannah" - is probably used by only a handful of users (if any)
and Conkeror doesn't have any particular connection to that website to
motivate it being used as a default.  The same applies for
"sourceforge".
* "freshmeat"... Really!?
* "slashdot" - is probably not a webjump that many users use to
*search* the website, but rather to get to the main page.  Everyone I
know who reads Slashdot merely browses it and never uses its search
functionality.  Keeping this would be the equivalent of having a
default bookmark.
* I'll go out on a limb here and say that "kuro5hin" is probably used
by at most one user (the person who added it, I don't know who that
is).

What do you guys think of this suggestion?

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[Axel Beckert]

Hi,

On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 03:10:36PM +0200, Deniz Dogan wrote:
> I think there are too many default webjumps in Conkeror.

Well, I wouldn't say that. IMHO there are quite a lot of possible and
useful webjumps which could be default, but aren't.

But I agree that most of the webjumps you listed are neither useful
for nor used by the vast majority of Conkeror users.

For a few I would say that may be used by some more users, but still
not really often:

> * "ratpoisonwiki" and "stumpwmwiki" - should be removed because they
> are only useful for users of those particular window managers.  The
> same idea applies here: if we keep them, we would be obliged to add
> any other window manager wiki as a default webjump.

I use ratpoisonwiki quite often, but I agree anyway.

> * "savannah" - is probably used by only a handful of users (if any)
> and Conkeror doesn't have any particular connection to that website to
> motivate it being used as a default.  The same applies for
> "sourceforge".
> * "freshmeat"... Really!?

I know some people who use freshmeat search quite regular for
searching for software they're not sure of if it exists.

So I would say it's one of the more helpful ones. Not sure about
sourceforge. But savannah is probably not used very often, right.

> * "slashdot" - is probably not a webjump that many users use to
> *search* the website, but rather to get to the main page.  Everyone I
> know who reads Slashdot merely browses it and never uses its search
> functionality.  Keeping this would be the equivalent of having a
> default bookmark.

I guess you're right.

> * I'll go out on a limb here and say that "kuro5hin" is probably used
> by at most one user (the person who added it, I don't know who that
> is).

I know a few people who read that, but I'm neither sure if they still
do nor if they are conkeror users. So for me it's ok to kick this out
of the default list.

> What do you guys think of this suggestion?

I'm fine if you copy all of them to http://conkeror.org/Webjumps
instead. :-)

P.S.: I plan to introduce some Debian-package only default webjumps.
To be more exact I plan to integrate more or less the webjumps at
http://conkeror.org/Webjumps#Debianpackagesearches into the package.
They're useful for nearly every Debian user. Maybe also some ubuntu
web jumps working the same way. Anyone has such Ubuntu webjumps
already done? I'm no Ubuntu user and don't know any of Ubuntu's
equivalents except packages.ubuntu.com.

P.P.S.: conkeror.org was down while writing parts of this mail. So
e.g. "down?" from
http://conkeror.org/Webjumps#Downforeveryoneorjustme.3F would be a
nice new default webjump. ;-) (SCNR)

                Regards, Axel
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[John J. Foerch]

On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 03:10:36PM +0200, Deniz Dogan wrote:
> I think there are too many default webjumps in Conkeror.
>

Hi Deniz,

  Totally agree about all your suggested removals, including "lucky".  In
general, I think that webjumps that are not directly relevant to Conkeror
belong on the wiki, where people who actually want them can install them.
I would include the lastfm webjumps, too, which are already listed on the
wiki.  And not to sound heartless, but none of these companies are
supporting us to advertise for them.

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[John J. Foerch]

On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 04:27:50PM +0200, Axel Beckert wrote:
> P.S.: I plan to introduce some Debian-package only default webjumps.
> To be more exact I plan to integrate more or less the webjumps at
> http://conkeror.org/Webjumps#Debianpackagesearches into the package.
> They're useful for nearly every Debian user. Maybe also some ubuntu
> web jumps working the same way. Anyone has such Ubuntu webjumps
> already done? I'm no Ubuntu user and don't know any of Ubuntu's
> equivalents except packages.ubuntu.com.


Hi Axel,

  Sounds convenient.  Maybe you want this one, too, straight from my rc.
I haven't taken the time to put it on the wiki yet though:

define_webjump("debianwiki",
    "http://wiki.debian.org/Suspend?action=fullsearch&context=180&value=%s&fullsearch=Text");



> P.P.S.: conkeror.org was down while writing parts of this mail. So
> e.g. "down?" from
> http://conkeror.org/Webjumps#Downforeveryoneorjustme.3F would be a
> nice new default webjump. ;-) (SCNR)


  You make a convincing case for the "down?" webjump.  I could see doing
that.

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[Deniz Dogan-3]

2009/9/2 John J. Foerch <jjfoerch@...>:

> On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 03:10:36PM +0200, Deniz Dogan wrote:
>> I think there are too many default webjumps in Conkeror.
>>
>
> Hi Deniz,
>
>  Totally agree about all your suggested removals, including "lucky".  In
> general, I think that webjumps that are not directly relevant to Conkeror
> belong on the wiki, where people who actually want them can install them.
> I would include the lastfm webjumps, too, which are already listed on the
> wiki.  And not to sound heartless, but none of these companies are
> supporting us to advertise for them.
>
> --
> John Foerch
> _______________________________________________
> Conkeror mailing list
> Conkeror@...
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/conkeror
>

Yes, the Last.fm webjumps should certainly not be built into Conkeror.

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[Axel Beckert]

On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 10:33:17AM -0400, John J. Foerch wrote:
>   Totally agree about all your suggested removals, including "lucky".  In
> general, I think that webjumps that are not directly relevant to Conkeror
> belong on the wiki, where people who actually want them can install
> them.

I'm not sure if this is possible at all, but it would be cool, if
webjumps could be installed as easily as plugins in firefox. Let's say
some website (maybe even the conkeror wiki), which has the webjumps
and the user just has to follow some link and the webjump is dumped
into a file (best one file per webjump or so) somewhere in
~/.conkeror.mozdev.org/

Of course, if this is implemented, security should be in the mind. But
since webjumps are usually very small pieces of code, seeing the
source code before downloading and saving it should be sufficient.

                Regards, Axel
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[John J. Foerch]

On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 05:31:51PM +0200, Axel Beckert wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 10:33:17AM -0400, John J. Foerch wrote:
> >   Totally agree about all your suggested removals, including "lucky".  In
> > general, I think that webjumps that are not directly relevant to Conkeror
> > belong on the wiki, where people who actually want them can install
> > them.
>
> I'm not sure if this is possible at all, but it would be cool, if
> webjumps could be installed as easily as plugins in firefox. Let's say
> some website (maybe even the conkeror wiki), which has the webjumps
> and the user just has to follow some link and the webjump is dumped
> into a file (best one file per webjump or so) somewhere in
> ~/.conkeror.mozdev.org/
>
> Of course, if this is implemented, security should be in the mind. But
> since webjumps are usually very small pieces of code, seeing the
> source code before downloading and saving it should be sufficient.

  Here is my idea... Put a module into contrib/ which contains *all* of
our webjumps.  It would be manually synced with the wiki from time to
time.  This module would provide an API to install webjumps by name.  A
person would load this module from their rc, and import the webjumps they
want from it.

--
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[Deniz Dogan-3]

2009/9/2 John J. Foerch <jjfoerch@...>:

> On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 05:31:51PM +0200, Axel Beckert wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 10:33:17AM -0400, John J. Foerch wrote:
>> >   Totally agree about all your suggested removals, including "lucky".  In
>> > general, I think that webjumps that are not directly relevant to Conkeror
>> > belong on the wiki, where people who actually want them can install
>> > them.
>>
>> I'm not sure if this is possible at all, but it would be cool, if
>> webjumps could be installed as easily as plugins in firefox. Let's say
>> some website (maybe even the conkeror wiki), which has the webjumps
>> and the user just has to follow some link and the webjump is dumped
>> into a file (best one file per webjump or so) somewhere in
>> ~/.conkeror.mozdev.org/
>>
>> Of course, if this is implemented, security should be in the mind. But
>> since webjumps are usually very small pieces of code, seeing the
>> source code before downloading and saving it should be sufficient.
>
>
>  Here is my idea... Put a module into contrib/ which contains *all* of
> our webjumps.  It would be manually synced with the wiki from time to
> time.  This module would provide an API to install webjumps by name.  A
> person would load this module from their rc, and import the webjumps they
> want from it.
>
> --
> John Foerch
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Conkeror mailing list
> Conkeror@...
> https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/conkeror
>

+1 I can't wait for this to happen!

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[John J. Foerch]

On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 08:01:14PM +0200, Deniz Dogan wrote:

> 2009/9/2 John J. Foerch <jjfoerch@...>:
> > On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 05:31:51PM +0200, Axel Beckert wrote:
> >> On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 10:33:17AM -0400, John J. Foerch wrote:
> >> >   Totally agree about all your suggested removals, including "lucky".  In
> >> > general, I think that webjumps that are not directly relevant to Conkeror
> >> > belong on the wiki, where people who actually want them can install
> >> > them.
> >>
> >> I'm not sure if this is possible at all, but it would be cool, if
> >> webjumps could be installed as easily as plugins in firefox. Let's say
> >> some website (maybe even the conkeror wiki), which has the webjumps
> >> and the user just has to follow some link and the webjump is dumped
> >> into a file (best one file per webjump or so) somewhere in
> >> ~/.conkeror.mozdev.org/
> >>
> >> Of course, if this is implemented, security should be in the mind. But
> >> since webjumps are usually very small pieces of code, seeing the
> >> source code before downloading and saving it should be sufficient.
> >
> >
> >  Here is my idea... Put a module into contrib/ which contains *all* of
> > our webjumps.  It would be manually synced with the wiki from time to
> > time.  This module would provide an API to install webjumps by name.  A
> > person would load this module from their rc, and import the webjumps they
> > want from it.
> >
> > --
> > John Foerch
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Conkeror mailing list
> > Conkeror@...
> > https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/conkeror
> >
>
> +1 I can't wait for this to happen!

I just wonder if there is really a qualitative difference between doing it
this way and copying and pasting from the web.

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[Deniz Dogan-3]

2009/9/2 John J. Foerch <jjfoerch@...>:

> On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 08:01:14PM +0200, Deniz Dogan wrote:
>> 2009/9/2 John J. Foerch <jjfoerch@...>:
>> > On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 05:31:51PM +0200, Axel Beckert wrote:
>> >> On Wed, Sep 02, 2009 at 10:33:17AM -0400, John J. Foerch wrote:
>> >> >   Totally agree about all your suggested removals, including "lucky".  In
>> >> > general, I think that webjumps that are not directly relevant to Conkeror
>> >> > belong on the wiki, where people who actually want them can install
>> >> > them.
>> >>
>> >> I'm not sure if this is possible at all, but it would be cool, if
>> >> webjumps could be installed as easily as plugins in firefox. Let's say
>> >> some website (maybe even the conkeror wiki), which has the webjumps
>> >> and the user just has to follow some link and the webjump is dumped
>> >> into a file (best one file per webjump or so) somewhere in
>> >> ~/.conkeror.mozdev.org/
>> >>
>> >> Of course, if this is implemented, security should be in the mind. But
>> >> since webjumps are usually very small pieces of code, seeing the
>> >> source code before downloading and saving it should be sufficient.
>> >
>> >
>> >  Here is my idea... Put a module into contrib/ which contains *all* of
>> > our webjumps.  It would be manually synced with the wiki from time to
>> > time.  This module would provide an API to install webjumps by name.  A
>> > person would load this module from their rc, and import the webjumps they
>> > want from it.
>> >
>> > --
>> > John Foerch
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Conkeror mailing list
>> > Conkeror@...
>> > https://www.mozdev.org/mailman/listinfo/conkeror
>> >
>>
>> +1 I can't wait for this to happen!
>
>
> I just wonder if there is really a qualitative difference between doing it
> this way and copying and pasting from the web.

Well, e.g. if you lose your configuration file and want to get your
webjumps back, you already know the names of the webjumps you want,
but don't want to go browse a wiki just to get them.
define_webjump("ratpoisonwiki"), define_webjump("lastfm"),
define_webjump("conkerorwiki") is all you have to remember.

I can't really think of any other reason than that.

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