Nabble - Troopmaster Users

Re: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-23T16:38:23Z

At 06:48 PM 11/23/2009, tannebarnett wrote:
>The other issue is that we do need a third checkbox. "R" covers
>reporting to council. "P" covers presenting at the CoH. But we
>present a patch before the CoH. I have to document the patch
>presentation outside of TM because TM doesn't handle it.

Yeah, I've requested the same thing.

>TroopMaster - are you listening?

In general, no, they're not listening here. This is not an official
support channel, it's for us to help each other. If you want to be
sure they're listening, you need to contact them directly. (I'm not
saying that you haven't, but there have been plenty of people that
didn't realize that they don't monitor this group.)

--
Greg Marr
gregm@...

Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-23T15:48:08Z

I agree and have raised the same issue. Maybe TroopMaster is listening. That wordy prompt can create a huge mess with one mistake. It's not an operator problem as someone said; it's a software problem because it's too easy to mess up your database. I've asked TroopMaster to offer a setting that would turn off that prompt altogether. I'm scared to death every time I run a CoH report that I will accidentally respond Yes instead of No. I'm a software developer by vocation and would never get away with blaming that on the user.

The other issue is that we do need a third checkbox. "R" covers reporting to council. "P" covers presenting at the CoH. But we present a patch before the CoH. I have to document the patch presentation outside of TM because TM doesn't handle it.

TroopMaster - are you listening?

--- In TMTUG@..., "korchleader" <kkortge@...> wrote:

>
> When you run the Court of Honor/4403 report in TM ...
>
> If you generate the Unit Advancement Report and then close it you are presented with an option to check all the items as "Reported" (that is the 'R' in the Advancement section.
>
> If you generate the Court of Honor Report and then close it you get the a similar option to check all the items as "Presented" (the 'P' in the Advancement section).
>
> Well, this hit-one-button-and-change-a-whole-bunch-of-stuff method is really messing me up. Maybe I'm selecting Yes instead of No when offered that option, but then again, maybe its another adult in the troop with access to this report - such as the Scoutmaster. Whichever, this thing is killing me!!
>
> This year alone it has made me miss presenting six boys with their Personal Fitness badges completed last May, and now I just discovered that it also made me miss four Cit in the Nation badges earned last May. Of course my suspicion is there was one ooops-click in May and now I'm paying the price.
>
> I really wish TM would change the way it does this. I wish it would present a column of names & items involved in the Advancement Report and/or the Court or Honor, and then columns with Reports and/or Presented checkboxes. I would then go down the list and check wether or not I acquired the badges and whether or not the appropriate people were present to obtain their awards.
>
> As discussed before here, there should actually be a third COH column - which would get checked when their accomplishment had been recognized at a COH.
>
> I'm now at the point where I need to keep a separate Excel spreadsheet to make sure I don't overlook a badge, since I just can't trust TM. Sigh. That Yes/No has too many ramifications for being so easy to get wrong ... and once you hit Yes ... its too late - you can't undo it.
>

Re: TroopMaster Web

2009-11-23T12:26:54Z

I wrote Troopmaster about this and they said that TroopMaster Web is now using SSL. There was a message on my site about there being updates today and i guess that is what they were doing.

--- In TMTUG@..., "Mark" <bsa175@...> wrote:
>
> As our Troop's TroopMaster Administrator, I like the idea of having this already remarkable program online, it would make my life easier to just tell someone, go to this website and enter this id and password to access it. Also, the new feature that allows a parent access to only one or two scout(s) sounds fantastic. However, the one thing that TroopMaster Web is missing is SSL (the 'HTTPS' in the web address). I wrote TSI about this, they replied that they are looking into it, which is great but in the mean time, what users have to consider is, the database is encrypted on the server, however your connection between your computer and the server is out in the open, (including the UserID and password used to access it).
> Consider it this way, when you do your banking online, it's only your personal information going back and forth, which you wouldn't want to do without a secure connection between you and the bank. With a unit database, it's the personal data of the entire unit that can potentially be going back and forth from your computer to the server, unsecured.
> I think TroopMaster Web is a remarkable product idea but, I think users of the product need to be aware of this before accessing their unit's secure database on a unsecured connection.
> Thanks,
> Mark-long time user of TM
>

RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-23T06:48:45Z

Sorry. If a person has given from that unit in the past, the money has been
recorded with that unit. For the next several years, when the unit gets
ready to hold their FOS presentation a set of cards are printed showing
those "x" number of years ( I am not sure it is 3 years or 5 years or
whatever). Also included in the set of cards are all current registered
families.

Say you hold your FOS at an Eagle Court of Honors. Maybe you have 2 boys
who have dropped out of Scouting during the year. You will have cards in
the packet for them. Also you might have held last years FOS at an Eagle
Court of Honor. Last year you might have had the Grandfather, Uncle and
Older Brother of the Eagle Candidate donate money. You will have cards for
each of them showing the amount that they donated. It could be that kid,
might now be away at college and no longer active in Scouting. You will get
a card for Grandfather, another for Uncle, another for Older Brother, and
another for his parents. All of the cards have to be worked by the unit.
You will also get cards for the families of the two boys that have dropped
out. These have to be worked by the unit.

If the cards are not worked, then at some time near the end of the campaign,
a group of volunteers make phone calls to all of the un-worked cards. This
is a very time consuming process and even though volunteers are used it is a
slow process and with the some of the new no-call list laws it could be
illegal in some states.

The goals are set, based on how much money was raised last year plus some
percent.

The Council is better able to raise money by getting the cards worked at the
unit level where the Scoutmaster or Cubmaster is known instead of some
strange voice over the phone calling at during dinner. For this they give
out at most 4 rank patches. (If a boy get to First Class in one year. Less
after the first year). The Council pays less than $10 for maybe a $100
donation. It is a good deal for them.

Yours in Scouting,

Tom Newman

scout043@...

Phone: (260) 485-7995

If you can't live forever, create something that can.

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
sappmeritbadges@...
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 9:09 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: Re: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
for the Court of H

Please explain "all of the cards in the unit".

Sent from my BlackBerryR smartphone with SprintSpeed

_____

From: "Thomas A Newman" <scout043@...>

Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:34:06 -0500

To: <TMTUG@...>

Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
for the Court of H

Our council actually gives away the Rank Patches if your unit held a Family
Friends of Scouting, met the goals for your unit, and worked all of the
cards in the unit.

Yours in Scouting,

Tom Newman

scout043@...

Phone: (260) 485-7995

If you can't live forever, create something that can.

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:03 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
the Court of H

Ray,

I was just wondering the very same thing myself? Surely he's not telling us
that his Council just gives those awards away for FREE? I would think that
they'd have to have money on their Troop Account at their Local Council
Office/Scout Shop...(those are one in the same around these parts or neck of
the woods btw).

I know they're not going to just mail us any awards unless we have money on
account to pay for them.

I will warn you that I've tried the TSI's blue MB Card Stock, without much
success as the perforated outer borders aren't very printer friendly...so,
I'm assuming their blank White Award Card Stock is similar. You can try it,
but I wish you luck.

I do have the rank images I can send to you that resemble the same ones that
are currently shown on Rank Award Pocket Certificates sold in the Scout
Shops now.

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57
Training & Advancement Chair

--- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray
Miessler" <ray@...> wrote:
>
> ah, yes, that may be a method if we keep more money in our account at the
> council office. But they do not take scanned signatures, has to be
original
> signature, so then starts the postal service.
>
> Does your council actually provide the patches for free?
>
> On a separate note, I was going to try the TM award card stock for
printing
> the cards if I can get hold of the graphics for the ranks.
>
> _____
>
> From: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Greg

> Hetzler
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:36 AM
> To: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
> for the Court of H
>
> For Ray, you mention having to go to the Scout Shop to get the awards. Our
> Council provides Rank awards and MBs (Patches and Cards). I use TM to keep
> printing on a template of Avery labels. The way all this works is I submit
> to Scoutnet via TM, then I email a signed application for their records (I
> digitally sign the PDF for MBs, or scan the BoR report signed by three),

and
> in a couple of days I get the patches and pocket cards in the mail. The SM
> signs the cards and gives them back to me, the Scout is presented the
> Patches at close of meeting in front of the Troop.
>
> Greg

Re: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-23T06:08:46Z

Please explain "all of the cards in the unit".
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone with SprintSpeed

-----Original Message-----
From: "Thomas A Newman" <scout043@...>
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:34:06
To: <TMTUG@...>
Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

Our council actually gives away the Rank Patches if your unit held a Family
Friends of Scouting, met the goals for your unit, and worked all of the
cards in the unit.

Yours in Scouting,

Tom Newman

scout043@...

Phone: (260) 485-7995

If you can't live forever, create something that can.

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:03 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
the Court of H

Ray,

I was just wondering the very same thing myself? Surely he's not telling us
that his Council just gives those awards away for FREE? I would think that
they'd have to have money on their Troop Account at their Local Council
Office/Scout Shop...(those are one in the same around these parts or neck of
the woods btw).

I know they're not going to just mail us any awards unless we have money on
account to pay for them.

I will warn you that I've tried the TSI's blue MB Card Stock, without much
success as the perforated outer borders aren't very printer friendly...so,
I'm assuming their blank White Award Card Stock is similar. You can try it,
but I wish you luck.

I do have the rank images I can send to you that resemble the same ones that
are currently shown on Rank Award Pocket Certificates sold in the Scout
Shops now.

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57
Training & Advancement Chair

--- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray
Miessler" <ray@...> wrote:
>
> ah, yes, that may be a method if we keep more money in our account at the
> council office. But they do not take scanned signatures, has to be
original
> signature, so then starts the postal service.
>
> Does your council actually provide the patches for free?
>
> On a separate note, I was going to try the TM award card stock for
printing
> the cards if I can get hold of the graphics for the ranks.
>
> _____
>
> From: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Greg

RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-23T05:34:06Z

Our council actually gives away the Rank Patches if your unit held a Family
Friends of Scouting, met the goals for your unit, and worked all of the
cards in the unit.

Yours in Scouting,

Tom Newman

scout043@...

Phone: (260) 485-7995

If you can't live forever, create something that can.

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:03 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
the Court of H

Ray,

I was just wondering the very same thing myself? Surely he's not telling us
that his Council just gives those awards away for FREE? I would think that
they'd have to have money on their Troop Account at their Local Council
Office/Scout Shop...(those are one in the same around these parts or neck of
the woods btw).

I know they're not going to just mail us any awards unless we have money on
account to pay for them.

I will warn you that I've tried the TSI's blue MB Card Stock, without much
success as the perforated outer borders aren't very printer friendly...so,
I'm assuming their blank White Award Card Stock is similar. You can try it,
but I wish you luck.

I do have the rank images I can send to you that resemble the same ones that
are currently shown on Rank Award Pocket Certificates sold in the Scout
Shops now.

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57
Training & Advancement Chair

--- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray
Miessler" <ray@...> wrote:
>
> ah, yes, that may be a method if we keep more money in our account at the
> council office. But they do not take scanned signatures, has to be
original
> signature, so then starts the postal service.
>
> Does your council actually provide the patches for free?
>
> On a separate note, I was going to try the TM award card stock for
printing
> the cards if I can get hold of the graphics for the ranks.
>
> _____
>
> From: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Greg

RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-22T13:15:16Z

Ken,

As I replied previously, I will find out the specifics. I am waiting to be
informed how this procedure is available to us. I will wait as I am worthy
of my brothers' trust. IMHO, I am fortunate.

Signed,

Nechasin (Amo'Chk Lodge '77, Vigil)

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:18 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
the Court of H

Greg,

In most cases, chartering fees usually only includes charter renewal fees,
and Boys' Life subscriptions. Those are the only fees Council requires
during charter renewal time.

Anything else in addition that the Unit has set as annual program costs, if
it is collected during the same time all at once when you guys renew the
charter, is put into the Unit's Checking Account, then a separate check
written to the Council Office to be applied toward awards, program
materials, etc., if they keep money on account. It is quite possible that
the Treasurer sends both checks in at the same time when they send in the
charter renewal.

If they set so much aside for awards and program materials, and the rest for
equipment, event registrations, etc., part of that could possibly be
forwarded to the Council in advance without your knowledge to cover those
awards, books, postage to send you those awards, etc.

How does your Committee discuss these areas or issues when you guys have
Committee Meetings? Do you really not know where the money is going, or how
it is handled within the Unit? If so, I'd be asking these questions...not
only as a Leader, but being a parent myself, I like to know where every
penny is going and how it is applied. That is normal procedure already
supposed to be being followed by every Committee...if they're doing their
jobs right...IMHO

We hold our Troop Treasurer very accountable for all costs, expenses, and
accounts receiveable for boys' dues, fees, etc. We know as a Committee and
as parents, where every penny is going, or how it is applied when we hold
our monthly Committee Meetings when there's a statement or Treasurer's
report. Secretary has a monthly report of munites and updates. Each person
should have something to contribute to the program and a well run Unit
Structure so that everyone is held accountable.

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57

--- In, "Greg Hetzler" <hetz3@...> wrote:
>
> . before I mess up a good thing, I will find out the specifics. I had
> always thought the cost was born in our rehartering fees. Stay tuned .
>
> Nothing in life is free.

> Greg
>
> From: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Ken
> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 1:18 PM
> To: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
> the Court of H

> Greg,
>
> Which Council are you with? I'm sure a lot of the rest of us would like to
> check into seeing how we might incorporate or getting our own Councils to
> start giving awards away from FREE!
>
> Unfortunately...other than the New Fall Centennial Recruitment Patch
program
> that was started...I don't know of any awards that the BSA just GIVES away
> for FREE!
>
> I'm still guessing that somewhere down the line a while back, your Unit
> Committee has insured that the Troop Treasurer keeps track of and a
standing
> account with your Local Council Office/Scout Shop. So that, you, the
> Advancement Chair...if that is your current postion, sends in the
> Advancement Awards list and order...then provided that there's money on
your

> Unit's Account at the Office, they send them to you, then the awards and
> postage are deducted from your Unit's account.
>
> If not, then I'd like to find out how they're pulling that one
> off...especially while the rest of the Units across the Nation are paying
> out tons of money for Awards.
>
> JMHO,
> Ken
> SM-Troop 57
> MC-Pack 57
> Training & Advancement

"How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-22T12:51:31Z

Our Council does pay for the advancement patches. When you turn in the advancement report, they provide the patch for each rank advancement. This is not deducted from our unit account. I believe, a substantial donation was made many years ago that covers the costs. Other councils may have a similar arrangement.

However, we do have to pay if we do not turn in the sheet or we need extra patches.

DeWayne

--- In TMTUG@..., "Ken" <khartman@...> wrote:

>
> Greg,
>
> In most cases, chartering fees usually only includes charter renewal fees, and Boys' Life subscriptions. Those are the only fees Council requires during charter renewal time.
>
> Anything else in addition that the Unit has set as annual program costs, if it is collected during the same time all at once when you guys renew the charter, is put into the Unit's Checking Account, then a separate check written to the Council Office to be applied toward awards, program materials, etc., if they keep money on account. It is quite possible that the Treasurer sends both checks in at the same time when they send in the charter renewal.
>
> If they set so much aside for awards and program materials, and the rest for equipment, event registrations, etc., part of that could possibly be forwarded to the Council in advance without your knowledge to cover those awards, books, postage to send you those awards, etc.
>
> How does your Committee discuss these areas or issues when you guys have Committee Meetings? Do you really not know where the money is going, or how it is handled within the Unit? If so, I'd be asking these questions...not only as a Leader, but being a parent myself, I like to know where every penny is going and how it is applied. That is normal procedure already supposed to be being followed by every Committee...if they're doing their jobs right...IMHO
>
> We hold our Troop Treasurer very accountable for all costs, expenses, and accounts receiveable for boys' dues, fees, etc. We know as a Committee and as parents, where every penny is going, or how it is applied when we hold our monthly Committee Meetings when there's a statement or Treasurer's report. Secretary has a monthly report of munites and updates. Each person should have something to contribute to the program and a well run Unit Structure so that everyone is held accountable.
>
> Ken
> SM-Troop 57
> MC-Pack 57
>
> --- In TMTUG@..., "Greg Hetzler" <hetz3@> wrote:
> >
> > . before I mess up a good thing, I will find out the specifics. I had
> > always thought the cost was born in our rehartering fees. Stay tuned .
> >
> > Nothing in life is free.
>
> > Greg
> >
> > From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ken
> > Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 1:18 PM
> > To: TMTUG@...
> > Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
> > the Court of H
>
> > Greg,
> >
> > Which Council are you with? I'm sure a lot of the rest of us would like to
> > check into seeing how we might incorporate or getting our own Councils to
> > start giving awards away from FREE!
> >
> > Unfortunately...other than the New Fall Centennial Recruitment Patch program
> > that was started...I don't know of any awards that the BSA just GIVES away
> > for FREE!
> >
> > I'm still guessing that somewhere down the line a while back, your Unit
> > Committee has insured that the Troop Treasurer keeps track of and a standing
> > account with your Local Council Office/Scout Shop. So that, you, the
> > Advancement Chair...if that is your current postion, sends in the
> > Advancement Awards list and order...then provided that there's money on your
> > Unit's Account at the Office, they send them to you, then the awards and
> > postage are deducted from your Unit's account.
> >
> > If not, then I'd like to find out how they're pulling that one
> > off...especially while the rest of the Units across the Nation are paying
> > out tons of money for Awards.
> >
> > JMHO,
> > Ken
> > SM-Troop 57
> > MC-Pack 57
> > Training & Advancement
>

"How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-22T12:18:09Z

Greg,

In most cases, chartering fees usually only includes charter renewal fees, and Boys' Life subscriptions. Those are the only fees Council requires during charter renewal time.

Anything else in addition that the Unit has set as annual program costs, if it is collected during the same time all at once when you guys renew the charter, is put into the Unit's Checking Account, then a separate check written to the Council Office to be applied toward awards, program materials, etc., if they keep money on account. It is quite possible that the Treasurer sends both checks in at the same time when they send in the charter renewal.

If they set so much aside for awards and program materials, and the rest for equipment, event registrations, etc., part of that could possibly be forwarded to the Council in advance without your knowledge to cover those awards, books, postage to send you those awards, etc.

How does your Committee discuss these areas or issues when you guys have Committee Meetings? Do you really not know where the money is going, or how it is handled within the Unit? If so, I'd be asking these questions...not only as a Leader, but being a parent myself, I like to know where every penny is going and how it is applied. That is normal procedure already supposed to be being followed by every Committee...if they're doing their jobs right...IMHO

We hold our Troop Treasurer very accountable for all costs, expenses, and accounts receiveable for boys' dues, fees, etc. We know as a Committee and as parents, where every penny is going, or how it is applied when we hold our monthly Committee Meetings when there's a statement or Treasurer's report. Secretary has a monthly report of munites and updates. Each person should have something to contribute to the program and a well run Unit Structure so that everyone is held accountable.

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57

--- In TMTUG@..., "Greg Hetzler" <hetz3@...> wrote:
>
> . before I mess up a good thing, I will find out the specifics. I had
> always thought the cost was born in our rehartering fees. Stay tuned .
>
> Nothing in life is free.

> Greg
>
> From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ken
> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 1:18 PM
> To: TMTUG@...
> Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
> the Court of H

> Greg,
>
> Which Council are you with? I'm sure a lot of the rest of us would like to
> check into seeing how we might incorporate or getting our own Councils to
> start giving awards away from FREE!
>
> Unfortunately...other than the New Fall Centennial Recruitment Patch program
> that was started...I don't know of any awards that the BSA just GIVES away
> for FREE!
>
> I'm still guessing that somewhere down the line a while back, your Unit
> Committee has insured that the Troop Treasurer keeps track of and a standing
> account with your Local Council Office/Scout Shop. So that, you, the
> Advancement Chair...if that is your current postion, sends in the
> Advancement Awards list and order...then provided that there's money on your
> Unit's Account at the Office, they send them to you, then the awards and
> postage are deducted from your Unit's account.
>
> If not, then I'd like to find out how they're pulling that one
> off...especially while the rest of the Units across the Nation are paying
> out tons of money for Awards.
>
> JMHO,
> Ken
> SM-Troop 57
> MC-Pack 57
> Training & Advancement

RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-22T11:55:28Z

. before I mess up a good thing, I will find out the specifics. I had
always thought the cost was born in our rehartering fees. Stay tuned .

Nothing in life is free.

Greg

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 1:18 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
the Court of H

Greg,

Which Council are you with? I'm sure a lot of the rest of us would like to
check into seeing how we might incorporate or getting our own Councils to
start giving awards away from FREE!

Unfortunately...other than the New Fall Centennial Recruitment Patch program
that was started...I don't know of any awards that the BSA just GIVES away
for FREE!

I'm still guessing that somewhere down the line a while back, your Unit
Committee has insured that the Troop Treasurer keeps track of and a standing
account with your Local Council Office/Scout Shop. So that, you, the
Advancement Chair...if that is your current postion, sends in the
Advancement Awards list and order...then provided that there's money on your
Unit's Account at the Office, they send them to you, then the awards and
postage are deducted from your Unit's account.

If not, then I'd like to find out how they're pulling that one
off...especially while the rest of the Units across the Nation are paying
out tons of money for Awards.

JMHO,
Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57
Training & Advancement

--- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , "Greg
Hetzler" <hetz3@...> wrote:
>
> Ken, Yes I am.
>
>
>
> I submitted via TM Tuesday, Sat. received a yellow envelope, return
address
> our Council, posted with $1.05 postage, containing two tenderfoot and
three

> MBs, I delivered them to the SM at the monthly campout, he awarded them,
> Pocket cards made out and kept for the next CoH.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> From: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Ken

> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:03 AM
> To: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
> the Court of H
>
>
>
>
>
> Ray,
>
> I was just wondering the very same thing myself? Surely he's not telling

us
> that his Council just gives those awards away for FREE? I would think that
> they'd have to have money on their Troop Account at their Local Council
> Office/Scout Shop...(those are one in the same around these parts or neck
of
> the woods btw).
>
> I know they're not going to just mail us any awards unless we have money
on
> account to pay for them.
>
> I will warn you that I've tried the TSI's blue MB Card Stock, without much
> success as the perforated outer borders aren't very printer friendly...so,
> I'm assuming their blank White Award Card Stock is similar. You can try
it,
> but I wish you luck.
>
> I do have the rank images I can send to you that resemble the same ones
that
> are currently shown on Rank Award Pocket Certificates sold in the Scout
> Shops now.
>
> Ken
> SM-Troop 57
> MC-Pack 57
> Training & Advancement Chair
>
> --- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray
> Miessler" <ray@> wrote:
> >
> > ah, yes, that may be a method if we keep more money in our account at
the

> > council office. But they do not take scanned signatures, has to be
> original
> > signature, so then starts the postal service.
> >
> > Does your council actually provide the patches for free?
> >
> > On a separate note, I was going to try the TM award card stock for
> printing
> > the cards if I can get hold of the graphics for the ranks.
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>

<mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
> Of Greg
> > Hetzler
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:36 AM
> > To: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P
option
> > for the Court of H
> >
> > For Ray, you mention having to go to the Scout Shop to get the awards.
Our
> > Council provides Rank awards and MBs (Patches and Cards). I use TM to
keep
> > printing on a template of Avery labels. The way all this works is I
submit
> > to Scoutnet via TM, then I email a signed application for their records
(I
> > digitally sign the PDF for MBs, or scan the BoR report signed by three),
> and
> > in a couple of days I get the patches and pocket cards in the mail. The
SM
> > signs the cards and gives them back to me, the Scout is presented the
> > Patches at close of meeting in front of the Troop.
> >
> > Greg
>

"How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-22T10:18:09Z

Greg,

Which Council are you with? I'm sure a lot of the rest of us would like to check into seeing how we might incorporate or getting our own Councils to start giving awards away from FREE!

Unfortunately...other than the New Fall Centennial Recruitment Patch program that was started...I don't know of any awards that the BSA just GIVES away for FREE!

I'm still guessing that somewhere down the line a while back, your Unit Committee has insured that the Troop Treasurer keeps track of and a standing account with your Local Council Office/Scout Shop. So that, you, the Advancement Chair...if that is your current postion, sends in the Advancement Awards list and order...then provided that there's money on your Unit's Account at the Office, they send them to you, then the awards and postage are deducted from your Unit's account.

If not, then I'd like to find out how they're pulling that one off...especially while the rest of the Units across the Nation are paying out tons of money for Awards.

JMHO,
Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57
Training & Advancement

--- In TMTUG@..., "Greg Hetzler" <hetz3@...> wrote:

>
> Ken, Yes I am.
>
>
>
> I submitted via TM Tuesday, Sat. received a yellow envelope, return address
> our Council, posted with $1.05 postage, containing two tenderfoot and three
> MBs, I delivered them to the SM at the monthly campout, he awarded them,
> Pocket cards made out and kept for the next CoH.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ken
> Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:03 AM
> To: TMTUG@...
> Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
> the Court of H
>
>
>
>
>
> Ray,
>
> I was just wondering the very same thing myself? Surely he's not telling us
> that his Council just gives those awards away for FREE? I would think that
> they'd have to have money on their Troop Account at their Local Council
> Office/Scout Shop...(those are one in the same around these parts or neck of
> the woods btw).
>
> I know they're not going to just mail us any awards unless we have money on
> account to pay for them.
>
> I will warn you that I've tried the TSI's blue MB Card Stock, without much
> success as the perforated outer borders aren't very printer friendly...so,
> I'm assuming their blank White Award Card Stock is similar. You can try it,
> but I wish you luck.
>
> I do have the rank images I can send to you that resemble the same ones that
> are currently shown on Rank Award Pocket Certificates sold in the Scout
> Shops now.
>
> Ken
> SM-Troop 57
> MC-Pack 57
> Training & Advancement Chair
>
> --- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray
> Miessler" <ray@> wrote:
> >
> > ah, yes, that may be a method if we keep more money in our account at the
> > council office. But they do not take scanned signatures, has to be
> original
> > signature, so then starts the postal service.
> >
> > Does your council actually provide the patches for free?
> >
> > On a separate note, I was going to try the TM award card stock for
> printing
> > the cards if I can get hold of the graphics for the ranks.
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
> Of Greg
> > Hetzler
> > Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:36 AM
> > To: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
> > for the Court of H
> >
> > For Ray, you mention having to go to the Scout Shop to get the awards. Our
> > Council provides Rank awards and MBs (Patches and Cards). I use TM to keep
> > printing on a template of Avery labels. The way all this works is I submit
> > to Scoutnet via TM, then I email a signed application for their records (I
> > digitally sign the PDF for MBs, or scan the BoR report signed by three),
> and
> > in a couple of days I get the patches and pocket cards in the mail. The SM
> > signs the cards and gives them back to me, the Scout is presented the
> > Patches at close of meeting in front of the Troop.
> >
> > Greg
>

RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-22T08:15:55Z

Sounds like a good system! Thanks for sharing a success story, Michael!

Reid.

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
dpcssw
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 8:19 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report
is Killing Me

I find it extremely easy to utilize the Auto-Check R/P option in
TroopMaster. I have a "baggie" for every Scout. After I purchase
awards/cards, I put them in the Scouts baggie, hand off the baggie to the
SM, he signs the cards, puts them in the awards box, next meeting we empty
the awards box and the baggies are returned to me. If the Scout is not
there, the baggie remains in the box for next week.

At the COH, we provide a list of Scouts and what they have earned since the
last COH. We read this off by patrol as the boys stand in front.

I do an annual verification between TroopMaster and ScoutNet for all Scouts.
I also verify a Scouts full file when he attains Life.

Michael
Advancement Chair
Pack and Troop 127

--- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"korchleader" <kkortge@...> wrote:
>
> Just to clarify - I am the advancement coordinator. That is why I'm the
one frustrated when I don't purchase/present the correct badges. In the last
week I think I'm finally getting things cleaned up from a what appears to
have been an accidental selection of the "Yes" back in April or May.
>
> Like I'd said, using a redundant very simple Excel worksheet to track MBs
and ranks should help prevent such issues in the future.
>
> Ken
>
>

RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-22T05:57:17Z

Ken, Yes I am.

I submitted via TM Tuesday, Sat. received a yellow envelope, return address
our Council, posted with $1.05 postage, containing two tenderfoot and three
MBs, I delivered them to the SM at the monthly campout, he awarded them,
Pocket cards made out and kept for the next CoH.

Greg

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ken
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 2:03 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
the Court of H

Ray,

I was just wondering the very same thing myself? Surely he's not telling us
that his Council just gives those awards away for FREE? I would think that
they'd have to have money on their Troop Account at their Local Council
Office/Scout Shop...(those are one in the same around these parts or neck of
the woods btw).

I know they're not going to just mail us any awards unless we have money on
account to pay for them.

I will warn you that I've tried the TSI's blue MB Card Stock, without much
success as the perforated outer borders aren't very printer friendly...so,
I'm assuming their blank White Award Card Stock is similar. You can try it,
but I wish you luck.

I do have the rank images I can send to you that resemble the same ones that
are currently shown on Rank Award Pocket Certificates sold in the Scout
Shops now.

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57
Training & Advancement Chair

--- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ray
Miessler" <ray@...> wrote:
>
> ah, yes, that may be a method if we keep more money in our account at the
> council office. But they do not take scanned signatures, has to be
original
> signature, so then starts the postal service.
>
> Does your council actually provide the patches for free?
>
> On a separate note, I was going to try the TM award card stock for
printing
> the cards if I can get hold of the graphics for the ranks.
>
> _____
>
> From: TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Greg

RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-22T05:52:28Z

Well, checkout digital signatures. Most the pdf forms that BSA is providing
has been formatted been them to allow use of the Digital signing block.
They, their forms, are the ones who got me to start using that.

Our Council provides rank and Merit Badge awards. The Council only
reimburses for these two types of awards at the Boy Scout Level. At the Cub
Level I believe the Pack had to buy the belt loops and beads.

Images, they are out there but I found a great source for the TM award card
images. Scan the award, crop it, and save it. It is your scanned image.
If you bring the picture into Powerpoint, picture/Format/recolor/transparent
and select the background, save a PNG and you have only the badge.

.. but everyone knew that, right?

Greg

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ray
Miessler
Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 1:03 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
for the Court of H

ah, yes, that may be a method if we keep more money in our account at the
council office. But they do not take scanned signatures, has to be original
signature, so then starts the postal service.

Does your council actually provide the patches for free?

On a separate note, I was going to try the TM award card stock for printing
the cards if I can get hold of the graphics for the ranks.

_____

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Greg
Hetzler
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:36 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
for the Court of H

For Ray, you mention having to go to the Scout Shop to get the awards. Our
Council provides Rank awards and MBs (Patches and Cards). I use TM to keep
printing on a template of Avery labels. The way all this works is I submit
to Scoutnet via TM, then I email a signed application for their records (I
digitally sign the PDF for MBs, or scan the BoR report signed by three), and
in a couple of days I get the patches and pocket cards in the mail. The SM
signs the cards and gives them back to me, the Scout is presented the
Patches at close of meeting in front of the Troop.

Greg

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ray
Miessler
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:33 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
for the Court of H

One question for Ken K. how many are in your troop? If we handed out as
soon as they earned them, I'd be at the scout shop every week.

I agree with the week or 2 in advance for a review. That works well.

I do have a question about Matt's post:

We have used TM for a long time and if you have the advancement chair
keeping it up as they should and checking books, missing awards at court of
honor should be minimal if not at all. In the 10 years I've been
advancement chair, only 2 times did I miss a rank, both due to me
transfering from a ratty laptop used at the meetings to my good desk top.

Always back up the data religiously if not more, I back up to the hard
drive, and change the file titles to keep various backups so I can restore
to a previous point.

Than I copy off the files to a CD or something to have for a backup.

As far as merit badges go, very rare we miss those except for a mix up on a
partial or the camp had things mixed up.

BUT, passing out the report 1 or 2 weeks in advance has been the big fix.

For Greg, keeping the 2nd set of records was our down fall. and by the way,
our troop records in TM are much more accurate and up to date than Scoutnet.
Scoutnet is up to date, but sometimes, records get mixed up at the council
office. Besides, the scoutnet interface is not much to be desired.

Keeping TM up to date by the advancement chair and backing up the data
often, works. The only thing I do is keep a side log/notebook of each week
activities like board of reviews.

It is hard work to keep the records properly, but I've been given big messes
from transferring scouts where the previous troop did not properly do this.
It is a disservice to the scout to not keep this up and TroopMaster works
just fine for the job.

Ray

All -

When we have a court of honor, we always miss awards. Does not matter what
we do - they get missed. The important thing we do is we ensure that
someone is in the back (The Advancement Chair) with the box, and if I miss
one - she pulls the badge and a card out and fills it in right then and
there. She also has Troopmaster open at the time to confirm.

One thing I do is pull reports on the kids before every COH from Internet
Advancement. Compare and correct Troopmaster, and run the report. Then
create the program according to what it generated.

Is troopmaster perfect? I would say it is about as perfect as a human
being. Scoutnet is the same. But it is a tool that can be used
effectively.

If the information entered into the program is wrong, the reports will be
wrong. It really is up to the advancement chair to grant/deny access to
troopmaster.

I additionally print out each scouts information once a year and give it to
them for them to correct any information that is incorrect. That keeps
problems to a minimum.

Greg, I think your process is very sound.

Matt

_____

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
korchleader
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:46 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
the Court of H

We've finally gotten to the point where we actually do try to get the badges
to the boys as soon as possible. What I do is just hand them the badges at
troop meetings, and then hand them the green MB cards & rank cards during
the COH. It works pretty well, so long as I have the list right.

I like the idea of publishing the award list ahead of time to get
confirmation from the boys. Great idea!

Ken K.

--- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , David
Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
>
> Another option to make sure you aren't "forgetting" someone is to publish
the list of awards a week or two in advance.Â When I did the Advancement
job I particularly set out a report of summer camp merit badges for the boys
to check, because in most cases the Scout thinks he completed the badge and
the card comes back as incomplete.
>
> Of course, if you subscribe to the "present the badge immediately"
philosophy that many on the Boy-Scout-Talk list subscribe to, there should
be nothing to hand out.....but that's another discussion.Â Â :o)
>
> David
>
>
>

Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-22T05:19:28Z

I find it extremely easy to utilize the Auto-Check R/P option in TroopMaster. I have a "baggie" for every Scout. After I purchase awards/cards, I put them in the Scouts baggie, hand off the baggie to the SM, he signs the cards, puts them in the awards box, next meeting we empty the awards box and the baggies are returned to me. If the Scout is not there, the baggie remains in the box for next week.

At the COH, we provide a list of Scouts and what they have earned since the last COH. We read this off by patrol as the boys stand in front.

I do an annual verification between TroopMaster and ScoutNet for all Scouts. I also verify a Scouts full file when he attains Life.

Michael
Advancement Chair
Pack and Troop 127

--- In TMTUG@..., "korchleader" <kkortge@...> wrote:
>
> Just to clarify - I am the advancement coordinator. That is why I'm the one frustrated when I don't purchase/present the correct badges. In the last week I think I'm finally getting things cleaned up from a what appears to have been an accidental selection of the "Yes" back in April or May.
>
> Like I'd said, using a redundant very simple Excel worksheet to track MBs and ranks should help prevent such issues in the future.
>
> Ken
>
>

"How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-21T23:02:37Z

Ray,

I was just wondering the very same thing myself? Surely he's not telling us that his Council just gives those awards away for FREE? I would think that they'd have to have money on their Troop Account at their Local Council Office/Scout Shop...(those are one in the same around these parts or neck of the woods btw).

I know they're not going to just mail us any awards unless we have money on account to pay for them.

I will warn you that I've tried the TSI's blue MB Card Stock, without much success as the perforated outer borders aren't very printer friendly...so, I'm assuming their blank White Award Card Stock is similar. You can try it, but I wish you luck.

I do have the rank images I can send to you that resemble the same ones that are currently shown on Rank Award Pocket Certificates sold in the Scout Shops now.

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57
Training & Advancement Chair

--- In TMTUG@..., "Ray Miessler" <ray@...> wrote:

>
> ah, yes, that may be a method if we keep more money in our account at the
> council office. But they do not take scanned signatures, has to be original
> signature, so then starts the postal service.
>
> Does your council actually provide the patches for free?
>
> On a separate note, I was going to try the TM award card stock for printing
> the cards if I can get hold of the graphics for the ranks.
>
> _____
>
> From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Greg
> Hetzler
> Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:36 AM
> To: TMTUG@...
> Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
> for the Court of H
>
> For Ray, you mention having to go to the Scout Shop to get the awards. Our
> Council provides Rank awards and MBs (Patches and Cards). I use TM to keep
> printing on a template of Avery labels. The way all this works is I submit
> to Scoutnet via TM, then I email a signed application for their records (I
> digitally sign the PDF for MBs, or scan the BoR report signed by three), and
> in a couple of days I get the patches and pocket cards in the mail. The SM
> signs the cards and gives them back to me, the Scout is presented the
> Patches at close of meeting in front of the Troop.
>
> Greg

RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-21T22:02:37Z

ah, yes, that may be a method if we keep more money in our account at the
council office. But they do not take scanned signatures, has to be original
signature, so then starts the postal service.

Does your council actually provide the patches for free?

On a separate note, I was going to try the TM award card stock for printing
the cards if I can get hold of the graphics for the ranks.

_____

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Greg
Hetzler
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 9:36 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
for the Court of H

For Ray, you mention having to go to the Scout Shop to get the awards. Our
Council provides Rank awards and MBs (Patches and Cards). I use TM to keep
printing on a template of Avery labels. The way all this works is I submit
to Scoutnet via TM, then I email a signed application for their records (I
digitally sign the PDF for MBs, or scan the BoR report signed by three), and
in a couple of days I get the patches and pocket cards in the mail. The SM
signs the cards and gives them back to me, the Scout is presented the
Patches at close of meeting in front of the Troop.

Greg

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ray
Miessler
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:33 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
for the Court of H

One question for Ken K. how many are in your troop? If we handed out as
soon as they earned them, I'd be at the scout shop every week.

I agree with the week or 2 in advance for a review. That works well.

I do have a question about Matt's post:

We have used TM for a long time and if you have the advancement chair
keeping it up as they should and checking books, missing awards at court of
honor should be minimal if not at all. In the 10 years I've been
advancement chair, only 2 times did I miss a rank, both due to me
transfering from a ratty laptop used at the meetings to my good desk top.

Always back up the data religiously if not more, I back up to the hard
drive, and change the file titles to keep various backups so I can restore
to a previous point.

Than I copy off the files to a CD or something to have for a backup.

As far as merit badges go, very rare we miss those except for a mix up on a
partial or the camp had things mixed up.

BUT, passing out the report 1 or 2 weeks in advance has been the big fix.

For Greg, keeping the 2nd set of records was our down fall. and by the way,
our troop records in TM are much more accurate and up to date than Scoutnet.
Scoutnet is up to date, but sometimes, records get mixed up at the council
office. Besides, the scoutnet interface is not much to be desired.

Keeping TM up to date by the advancement chair and backing up the data
often, works. The only thing I do is keep a side log/notebook of each week
activities like board of reviews.

It is hard work to keep the records properly, but I've been given big messes
from transferring scouts where the previous troop did not properly do this.
It is a disservice to the scout to not keep this up and TroopMaster works
just fine for the job.

Ray

All -

When we have a court of honor, we always miss awards. Does not matter what
we do - they get missed. The important thing we do is we ensure that
someone is in the back (The Advancement Chair) with the box, and if I miss
one - she pulls the badge and a card out and fills it in right then and
there. She also has Troopmaster open at the time to confirm.

One thing I do is pull reports on the kids before every COH from Internet
Advancement. Compare and correct Troopmaster, and run the report. Then
create the program according to what it generated.

Is troopmaster perfect? I would say it is about as perfect as a human
being. Scoutnet is the same. But it is a tool that can be used
effectively.

If the information entered into the program is wrong, the reports will be
wrong. It really is up to the advancement chair to grant/deny access to
troopmaster.

I additionally print out each scouts information once a year and give it to
them for them to correct any information that is incorrect. That keeps
problems to a minimum.

Greg, I think your process is very sound.

Matt

_____

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
korchleader
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:46 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
the Court of H

We've finally gotten to the point where we actually do try to get the badges
to the boys as soon as possible. What I do is just hand them the badges at
troop meetings, and then hand them the green MB cards & rank cards during
the COH. It works pretty well, so long as I have the list right.

I like the idea of publishing the award list ahead of time to get
confirmation from the boys. Great idea!

Ken K.

--- In TMTUG@yahoogroups. <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> com, David
Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
>
> Another option to make sure you aren't "forgetting" someone is to publish
the list of awards a week or two in advance.Â When I did the Advancement
job I particularly set out a report of summer camp merit badges for the boys
to check, because in most cases the Scout thinks he completed the badge and
the card comes back as incomplete.
>
> Of course, if you subscribe to the "present the badge immediately"
philosophy that many on the Boy-Scout-Talk list subscribe to, there should
be nothing to hand out.....but that's another discussion.Â Â :o)
>
> David
>
>
>

RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-21T07:36:04Z

For Ray, you mention having to go to the Scout Shop to get the awards. Our
Council provides Rank awards and MBs (Patches and Cards). I use TM to keep
printing on a template of Avery labels. The way all this works is I submit
to Scoutnet via TM, then I email a signed application for their records (I
digitally sign the PDF for MBs, or scan the BoR report signed by three), and
in a couple of days I get the patches and pocket cards in the mail. The SM
signs the cards and gives them back to me, the Scout is presented the
Patches at close of meeting in front of the Troop.

Greg

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of Ray
Miessler
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 1:33 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option
for the Court of H

One question for Ken K. how many are in your troop? If we handed out as
soon as they earned them, I'd be at the scout shop every week.

I agree with the week or 2 in advance for a review. That works well.

I do have a question about Matt's post:

We have used TM for a long time and if you have the advancement chair
keeping it up as they should and checking books, missing awards at court of
honor should be minimal if not at all. In the 10 years I've been
advancement chair, only 2 times did I miss a rank, both due to me
transfering from a ratty laptop used at the meetings to my good desk top.

Always back up the data religiously if not more, I back up to the hard
drive, and change the file titles to keep various backups so I can restore
to a previous point.

Than I copy off the files to a CD or something to have for a backup.

As far as merit badges go, very rare we miss those except for a mix up on a
partial or the camp had things mixed up.

BUT, passing out the report 1 or 2 weeks in advance has been the big fix.

For Greg, keeping the 2nd set of records was our down fall. and by the way,
our troop records in TM are much more accurate and up to date than Scoutnet.
Scoutnet is up to date, but sometimes, records get mixed up at the council
office. Besides, the scoutnet interface is not much to be desired.

Keeping TM up to date by the advancement chair and backing up the data
often, works. The only thing I do is keep a side log/notebook of each week
activities like board of reviews.

It is hard work to keep the records properly, but I've been given big messes
from transferring scouts where the previous troop did not properly do this.
It is a disservice to the scout to not keep this up and TroopMaster works
just fine for the job.

Ray

All -

When we have a court of honor, we always miss awards. Does not matter what
we do - they get missed. The important thing we do is we ensure that
someone is in the back (The Advancement Chair) with the box, and if I miss
one - she pulls the badge and a card out and fills it in right then and
there. She also has Troopmaster open at the time to confirm.

One thing I do is pull reports on the kids before every COH from Internet
Advancement. Compare and correct Troopmaster, and run the report. Then
create the program according to what it generated.

Is troopmaster perfect? I would say it is about as perfect as a human
being. Scoutnet is the same. But it is a tool that can be used
effectively.

If the information entered into the program is wrong, the reports will be
wrong. It really is up to the advancement chair to grant/deny access to
troopmaster.

I additionally print out each scouts information once a year and give it to
them for them to correct any information that is incorrect. That keeps
problems to a minimum.

Greg, I think your process is very sound.

Matt

_____

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
korchleader
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:46 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
the Court of H

We've finally gotten to the point where we actually do try to get the badges
to the boys as soon as possible. What I do is just hand them the badges at
troop meetings, and then hand them the green MB cards & rank cards during
the COH. It works pretty well, so long as I have the list right.

I like the idea of publishing the award list ahead of time to get
confirmation from the boys. Great idea!

Ken K.

--- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , David
Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
>
> Another option to make sure you aren't "forgetting" someone is to publish
the list of awards a week or two in advance.Â When I did the Advancement
job I particularly set out a report of summer camp merit badges for the boys
to check, because in most cases the Scout thinks he completed the badge and
the card comes back as incomplete.
>
> Of course, if you subscribe to the "present the badge immediately"
philosophy that many on the Boy-Scout-Talk list subscribe to, there should
be nothing to hand out.....but that's another discussion.Â Â :o)
>
> David
>
>
>

RE: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-20T22:33:07Z

One question for Ken K. how many are in your troop? If we handed out as
soon as they earned them, I'd be at the scout shop every week.

I agree with the week or 2 in advance for a review. That works well.

I do have a question about Matt's post:
We have used TM for a long time and if you have the advancement chair
keeping it up as they should and checking books, missing awards at court of
honor should be minimal if not at all. In the 10 years I've been
advancement chair, only 2 times did I miss a rank, both due to me
transfering from a ratty laptop used at the meetings to my good desk top.
Always back up the data religiously if not more, I back up to the hard
drive, and change the file titles to keep various backups so I can restore
to a previous point.
Than I copy off the files to a CD or something to have for a backup.

As far as merit badges go, very rare we miss those except for a mix up on a
partial or the camp had things mixed up.

BUT, passing out the report 1 or 2 weeks in advance has been the big fix.

For Greg, keeping the 2nd set of records was our down fall. and by the way,
our troop records in TM are much more accurate and up to date than Scoutnet.
Scoutnet is up to date, but sometimes, records get mixed up at the council
office. Besides, the scoutnet interface is not much to be desired.

Keeping TM up to date by the advancement chair and backing up the data
often, works. The only thing I do is keep a side log/notebook of each week
activities like board of reviews.

It is hard work to keep the records properly, but I've been given big messes
from transferring scouts where the previous troop did not properly do this.
It is a disservice to the scout to not keep this up and TroopMaster works
just fine for the job.

Ray

All -

When we have a court of honor, we always miss awards. Does not matter what
we do - they get missed. The important thing we do is we ensure that
someone is in the back (The Advancement Chair) with the box, and if I miss
one - she pulls the badge and a card out and fills it in right then and
there. She also has Troopmaster open at the time to confirm.

One thing I do is pull reports on the kids before every COH from Internet
Advancement. Compare and correct Troopmaster, and run the report. Then
create the program according to what it generated.

Is troopmaster perfect? I would say it is about as perfect as a human
being. Scoutnet is the same. But it is a tool that can be used
effectively.

If the information entered into the program is wrong, the reports will be
wrong. It really is up to the advancement chair to grant/deny access to
troopmaster.

I additionally print out each scouts information once a year and give it to
them for them to correct any information that is incorrect. That keeps
problems to a minimum.

Greg, I think your process is very sound.

Matt

_____

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
korchleader
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 7:46 PM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for
the Court of H

We've finally gotten to the point where we actually do try to get the badges
to the boys as soon as possible. What I do is just hand them the badges at
troop meetings, and then hand them the green MB cards & rank cards during
the COH. It works pretty well, so long as I have the list right.

I like the idea of publishing the award list ahead of time to get
confirmation from the boys. Great idea!

Ken K.

--- In TMTUG@yahoogroups. <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> com, David
Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
>
> Another option to make sure you aren't "forgetting" someone is to publish
the list of awards a week or two in advance.Â When I did the Advancement
job I particularly set out a report of summer camp merit badges for the boys
to check, because in most cases the Scout thinks he completed the badge and
the card comes back as incomplete.
>
> Of course, if you subscribe to the "present the badge immediately"
philosophy that many on the Boy-Scout-Talk list subscribe to, there should
be nothing to hand out.....but that's another discussion.Â Â :o)
>
> David
>
>
>

"How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of H

2009-11-19T17:46:22Z

We've finally gotten to the point where we actually do try to get the badges to the boys as soon as possible. What I do is just hand them the badges at troop meetings, and then hand them the green MB cards & rank cards during the COH. It works pretty well, so long as I have the list right.

I like the idea of publishing the award list ahead of time to get confirmation from the boys. Great idea!

Ken K.

--- In TMTUG@..., David Wildschuetz <shamanlsn@...> wrote:
>
> Another option to make sure you aren't "forgetting" someone is to publish the list of awards a week or two in advance.Â When I did the Advancement job I particularly set out a report of summer camp merit badges for the boys to check, because in most cases the Scout thinks he completed the badge and the card comes back as incomplete.
>
> Of course, if you subscribe to the "present the badge immediately" philosophy that many on the Boy-Scout-Talk list subscribe to, there should be nothing to hand out.....but that's another discussion.Â Â :o)
>
> David
>
>
>

Re: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-19T11:11:06Z

At 01:58 PM 11/19/2009, David Wildschuetz wrote:
>Another option to make sure you aren't "forgetting" someone is to
>publish the list of awards a week or two in advance. When I did the
>Advancement job I particularly set out a report of summer camp merit
>badges for the boys to check, because in most cases the Scout thinks
>he completed the badge and the card comes back as incomplete.

I've done that a couple times, but often don't get to do the report
until after the meeting before the CoH.

>Of course, if you subscribe to the "present the badge immediately"
>philosophy that many on the Boy-Scout-Talk list subscribe to, there
>should be nothing to hand out.

We still hand out the pocket cards, and parent pins for the ranks.

--
Greg Marr
gregm@...

Re: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-19T10:58:24Z

Another option to make sure you aren't "forgetting" someone is to publish the list of awards a week or two in advance. When I did the Advancement job I particularly set out a report of summer camp merit badges for the boys to check, because in most cases the Scout thinks he completed the badge and the card comes back as incomplete.

Of course, if you subscribe to the "present the badge immediately" philosophy that many on the Boy-Scout-Talk list subscribe to, there should be nothing to hand out.....but that's another discussion. :o)

David

________________________________
From: Matt Price <admyank@...>
To: TMTUG@...
Sent: Thu, November 19, 2009 12:22:33 PM
Subject: Re: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

All -

When we have a court of honor, we always miss awards. Does not matter what we do - they get missed. The important thing we do is we ensure that someone is in the back (The Advancement Chair) with the box, and if I miss one - she pulls the badge and a card out and fills it in right then and there. She also has Troopmaster open at the time to confirm.

One thing I do is pull reports on the kids before every COH from Internet Advancement. Compare and correct Troopmaster, and run the report. Then create the program according to what it generated.

Is troopmaster perfect? I would say it is about as perfect as a human being. Scoutnet is the same. But it is a tool that can be used effectively.

If the information entered into the program is wrong, the reports will be wrong. It really is up to the advancement chair to grant/deny access to troopmaster.

I additionally print out each scouts information once a year and give it to them for them to correct any information that is incorrect. That keeps problems to a minimum.

Greg, I think your process is very sound.

Matt

Greg Hetzler wrote:

>Afternoon,
>
>The subject is Court of Honor Report is killing me, the Auto-Check R/P option. This reply turned into a “How To Fix a Mess” instruction for advancement coordinators. The abbreviated comment to the subject is, Click ‘NO’ when in doubt, you can always back to mange R/P later. The expanded version is . . .
>
>I can totally agree that it is embarrassing to miss representation of an award to a Scout at a ceremony. A scout remembers when that happens. As someone once said, “…One shot, one chance, an opportunity … once in a lifetime... “. Ken thanks for your concern to keep a second set of records, Excel, to try and not let the missed awards happen. Though, I feel strongly all efforts should be taken to not duplicate locations of data. Guidance is to have duplicate, or even triplicate, cross checking of a single master list (peer review concept). The review by others shares the load and folk will recognizes you are placing trust in them to help the scouts. (To contradict myself, I do keep one separate list of awards, see the last item below). It was not hard at all to ensure references to TM in the following, to keep this narrative in bounds with the group.
>
>1                    Using the TM Individual progress report, I set a dead flat need to all ASMs and the SM to provide an up to date inventory of all the sign offs scouts’ handbooks. That actually turned out well as scouts, parents and the ASMs got involved. A lot of “missing” info was brought up by parents, by the ASMs for past activities, and from the scouts (school projects came up allot as meeting needs.)
>2                    Chase down records from the SM, ASMs, committee members etc. All, A L L , partial blue cards, completed blue cards, swimmer cards, sheets upon sheets of scratch attendance records. BTW, they never got any of those back : ).
>3                    Pull your Council records off the net, or call and ask them. In two cases I had to call a Council in PA and one in CO to help two scouts get recognition. When they saw a CM doing that for them it helped attitudes. Side Note, when setting up TM, it is better to get the Council data file ahead of time and import it first. The records are keyed by Birthdates and F M and Last name. Any differences will drive you back to Cubs.
>4                    An important item, use the TM COH report Print Copy Only feature. Use the selections to post only those presented and reported after the data starts to get sorted out properly by the advancement Coordinator. This is where having ONE data base, not two (Excel) is critical. If it is done correctly, you are so fried by this time you would not want a second set of data to proof. Read the help menu for the Auto-Check R/P option.
>5                    There may be a fifth, sixth and even a seventh iteration if the records were a mess, but it does get settled. The last CoH we had was finally pulled off without a hitch and ahead of time. What helped with that, was two presentations were made, one for Ranks, one for awards (i.e. Merit Badges), We used the TM reports to print these awards by Patrol. Each ASM was then responsible, after the awards were ordered and placed in baggies (like Cub Scouts) to hand them out. Important, They were told to leave any awards not handed out in that same baggie, After all the work to get this straightened out, they were not allowed to ”take them”. The baggies showed up at following meetings and if an ASM said the scout was there, the baggies got emptied. After the CoH, go update the Auto-Check R/P option as you see what is left in each patrol baggie. Run the TM report which lists awards not presented, and

send it out.

>6 FINALLY, I mentioned that I did contradict myself about keeping only one list, here is how I contradict myself. I placed the list of all wards and ranks earned by the scouts in the CoH Program. The amount of proofing a program gets is phenomenal, especially while parents set through a CoH. That is the only other list we use for QC, and that list was generated from TM.
>YIS
>
>Greg
>CM
>www.nctroop101. org
>
>From:TMTUG@yahoogroups. com [mailto:TMTUG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of korchleader
>Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:42 AM
>To: TMTUG@yahoogroups. com
>Subject: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me
>
>
>Just to clarify - I am the advancement coordinator. That is why I'm the one frustrated when I don't purchase/present the correct badges. In the last week I think I'm finally getting things cleaned up from a what appears to have been an accidental selection of the "Yes" back in April or May.
>
>Like I'd said, using a redundant very simple Excel worksheet to track MBs and ranks should help prevent such issues in the future.
>
>Ken
>
>--- In TMTUG@yahoogroups. com, "pbguerlain" <pbguerlain@. ..> wrote:
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> Thank you for your thoughful response.
>>
>> Though getting away from TM, I thought it should be appropriate to reply here nonetheless.
>>
>> Reasons I'm a little sensitive to a one man show: 1) Not you, obviously, but sometimes it's the scoutmaster running a mill of the sort you mention. That's one reason the Committee should be handling advancement. 2) Our unit has a SM who was running a one man show when I came along with my son about 10 years ago. One person cannot run a unit properly by himself, (even if he has unlimited time, which our SM didn't, so lots of stuff wasn't getting done) because the Committee has an agenda that is necessarily different from the SM.
>>
>> The only other thing I'd like to offer here, and I'm responding to your words here, is it's not up to you to get someone competent to do the recordkeeping, it's the sponsoring organization and Committee's responsibility to find someone to do that. Looks to me like you have a committee and/or sponsoring organization that needs to better understand and/or execute their roles.
>>
>> Thanks for listening.
>>
>> Peter
>>

Re: "How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-19T10:22:33Z

All -

When we have a court of honor, we always miss awards. Does not matter
what we do - they get missed. The important thing we do is we ensure
that someone is in the back (The Advancement Chair) with the box, and if
I miss one - she pulls the badge and a card out and fills it in right
then and there. She also has Troopmaster open at the time to confirm.

One thing I do is pull reports on the kids before every COH from
Internet Advancement. Compare and correct Troopmaster, and run the
report. Then create the program according to what it generated.

Is troopmaster perfect? I would say it is about as perfect as a human
being. Scoutnet is the same. But it is a tool that can be used
effectively.

If the information entered into the program is wrong, the reports will
be wrong. It really is up to the advancement chair to grant/deny access
to troopmaster.

I additionally print out each scouts information once a year and give it
to them for them to correct any information that is incorrect. That
keeps problems to a minimum.

Greg, I think your process is very sound.

Matt

Greg Hetzler wrote:

>
>
> Afternoon,
>
>
>
> The subject is Court of Honor Report is killing me, the Auto-Check R/P
> option. This reply turned into a "How To Fix a Mess" instruction for
> advancement coordinators. The abbreviated comment to the subject is,
> Click 'NO' when in doubt, you can always back to mange *R/P* later.
> The expanded version is . . .
>
>
>
> I can totally agree that it is embarrassing to miss representation of
> an award to a Scout at a ceremony. A scout remembers when that
> happens. As someone once said, "...One shot, one chance, an
> opportunity ... once in a lifetime... ". Ken thanks for your concern
> to keep a second set of records, Excel, to try and not let the missed
> awards happen. Though, I feel strongly all efforts should be taken to
> not duplicate locations of data. Guidance is to have duplicate, or
> even triplicate, cross checking of a single master list (peer review
> concept). The review by others shares the load and folk will
> recognizes you are placing trust in them to help the scouts. (To
> contradict myself, I do keep one separate list of awards, see the last
> item below). It was not hard at all to ensure references to TM in the
> following, to keep this narrative in bounds with the group.
>
>
>
> 1 Using the *TM Individual progress report*, I set
> a dead flat need to all ASMs and the SM to provide an up to date
> inventory of all the sign offs scouts' handbooks. That actually
> turned out well as scouts, parents and the ASMs got involved. A lot
> of "missing" info was brought up by parents, by the ASMs for past
> activities, and from the scouts (school projects came up allot as
> meeting needs.)
>
> 2 Chase down records from the SM, ASMs, committee
> members etc. All, _A_ _L_ _L_ , partial blue cards, completed blue
> cards, swimmer cards, sheets upon sheets of scratch attendance
> records. BTW, they never got any of those back : ).
>
> 3 Pull your Council records off the net, or call
> and ask them. In two cases I had to call a Council in PA and one in
> CO to help two scouts get recognition. When they saw a CM doing that
> for them it helped attitudes. Side Note, when setting up *TM*, it is
> better to get the Council data file ahead of time and import it first.
> The records are keyed by Birthdates and F M and Last name. Any
> differences will drive you back to Cubs.
>
> 4 An important item, use the *TM COH report Print
> Copy Only feature*. Use the selections to post only those presented
> and reported after the data starts to get sorted out properly by the
> advancement Coordinator. This is where having ONE data base, not two
> (Excel) is critical. If it is done correctly, you are so fried by
> this time you would not want a second set of data to proof. *Read the
> help menu for the Auto-Check R/P option.*
>
> 5 There may be a fifth, sixth and even a seventh
> iteration if the records were a mess, but it does get settled. The
> last CoH we had was finally pulled off without a hitch and ahead of
> time. What helped with that, was two presentations were made, one for
> Ranks, one for awards (i.e. Merit Badges), We used the *TM reports
> to print these awards by Patrol*. Each ASM was then responsible,
> after the awards were ordered and placed in baggies (like Cub Scouts)
> to hand them out. Important, They were told to leave any awards not
> handed out in that same baggie, After all the work to get this
> straightened out, they were not allowed to "take them". The baggies
> showed up at following meetings and if an ASM said the scout was
> there, the baggies got emptied. After the CoH, go update the
> *Auto-Check R/P option* as you see what is left in each patrol
> baggie. Run the *TM* report which lists awards not presented, and
> send it out.
>
> 6 FINALLY, I mentioned that I did contradict myself
> about keeping only one list, here is how I contradict myself. I
> placed the list of all wards and ranks earned by the scouts in the CoH
> Program. The amount of proofing a program gets is phenomenal,
> especially while parents set through a CoH. That is the only other
> list we use for QC, and that list was generated from *TM*.
>
> YIS
>
>
>
> Greg
>
> CM
>
> www.nctroop101.org
>
>
>
> *From:* TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] *On
> Behalf Of *korchleader
> *Sent:* Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:42 AM
> *To:* TMTUG@...
> *Subject:* [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of
> Honor Report is Killing Me
>
>
>
>
>
> Just to clarify - I am the advancement coordinator. That is why I'm
> the one frustrated when I don't purchase/present the correct badges.
> In the last week I think I'm finally getting things cleaned up from a
> what appears to have been an accidental selection of the "Yes" back in
> April or May.
>
> Like I'd said, using a redundant very simple Excel worksheet to track
> MBs and ranks should help prevent such issues in the future.
>
> Ken
>
> --- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "pbguerlain" <pbguerlain@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ken,
> >
> > Thank you for your thoughful response.
> >
> > Though getting away from TM, I thought it should be appropriate to
> reply here nonetheless.
> >
> > Reasons I'm a little sensitive to a one man show: 1) Not you,
> obviously, but sometimes it's the scoutmaster running a mill of the
> sort you mention. That's one reason the Committee should be handling
> advancement. 2) Our unit has a SM who was running a one man show when
> I came along with my son about 10 years ago. One person cannot run a
> unit properly by himself, (even if he has unlimited time, which our SM
> didn't, so lots of stuff wasn't getting done) because the Committee
> has an agenda that is necessarily different from the SM.
> >
> > The only other thing I'd like to offer here, and I'm responding to
> your words here, is it's not up to you to get someone competent to do
> the recordkeeping, it's the sponsoring organization and Committee's
> responsibility to find someone to do that. Looks to me like you have a
> committee and/or sponsoring organization that needs to better
> understand and/or execute their roles.
> >
> > Thanks for listening.
> >
> > Peter
> >
>
>

"How To Fix a Mess" RE: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-19T10:02:06Z

Afternoon,

The subject is Court of Honor Report is killing me, the Auto-Check R/P
option. This reply turned into a "How To Fix a Mess" instruction for
advancement coordinators. The abbreviated comment to the subject is, Click
'NO' when in doubt, you can always back to mange R/P later. The expanded
version is . . .

I can totally agree that it is embarrassing to miss representation of an
award to a Scout at a ceremony. A scout remembers when that happens. As
someone once said, ".One shot, one chance, an opportunity . once in a
lifetime... ". Ken thanks for your concern to keep a second set of records,
Excel, to try and not let the missed awards happen. Though, I feel strongly
all efforts should be taken to not duplicate locations of data. Guidance is
to have duplicate, or even triplicate, cross checking of a single master
list (peer review concept). The review by others shares the load and folk
will recognizes you are placing trust in them to help the scouts. (To
contradict myself, I do keep one separate list of awards, see the last item
below). It was not hard at all to ensure references to TM in the following,
to keep this narrative in bounds with the group.

1 Using the TM Individual progress report, I set a dead
flat need to all ASMs and the SM to provide an up to date inventory of all
the sign offs scouts' handbooks. That actually turned out well as scouts,
parents and the ASMs got involved. A lot of "missing" info was brought up
by parents, by the ASMs for past activities, and from the scouts (school
projects came up allot as meeting needs.)

2 Chase down records from the SM, ASMs, committee members
etc. All, A L L , partial blue cards, completed blue cards, swimmer cards,
sheets upon sheets of scratch attendance records. BTW, they never got any
of those back : ).

3 Pull your Council records off the net, or call and ask
them. In two cases I had to call a Council in PA and one in CO to help two
scouts get recognition. When they saw a CM doing that for them it helped
attitudes. Side Note, when setting up TM, it is better to get the Council
data file ahead of time and import it first. The records are keyed by
Birthdates and F M and Last name. Any differences will drive you back to
Cubs.

4 An important item, use the TM COH report Print Copy
Only feature. Use the selections to post only those presented and reported
after the data starts to get sorted out properly by the advancement
Coordinator. This is where having ONE data base, not two (Excel) is
critical. If it is done correctly, you are so fried by this time you would
not want a second set of data to proof. Read the help menu for the
Auto-Check R/P option.

5 There may be a fifth, sixth and even a seventh
iteration if the records were a mess, but it does get settled. The last CoH
we had was finally pulled off without a hitch and ahead of time. What
helped with that, was two presentations were made, one for Ranks, one for
awards (i.e. Merit Badges), We used the TM reports to print these awards
by Patrol. Each ASM was then responsible, after the awards were ordered and
placed in baggies (like Cub Scouts) to hand them out. Important, They were
told to leave any awards not handed out in that same baggie, After all the
work to get this straightened out, they were not allowed to "take them".
The baggies showed up at following meetings and if an ASM said the scout was
there, the baggies got emptied. After the CoH, go update the Auto-Check R/P
option as you see what is left in each patrol baggie. Run the TM report
which lists awards not presented, and send it out.

6 FINALLY, I mentioned that I did contradict myself about
keeping only one list, here is how I contradict myself. I placed the list
of all wards and ranks earned by the scouts in the CoH Program. The amount
of proofing a program gets is phenomenal, especially while parents set
through a CoH. That is the only other list we use for QC, and that list was
generated from TM.

YIS

Greg

CM

www.nctroop101.org

From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
korchleader
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 11:42 AM
To: TMTUG@...
Subject: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report
is Killing Me

Just to clarify - I am the advancement coordinator. That is why I'm the one
frustrated when I don't purchase/present the correct badges. In the last
week I think I'm finally getting things cleaned up from a what appears to
have been an accidental selection of the "Yes" back in April or May.

Like I'd said, using a redundant very simple Excel worksheet to track MBs
and ranks should help prevent such issues in the future.

Ken

--- In TMTUG@... <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com> , "pbguerlain"
<pbguerlain@...> wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> Thank you for your thoughful response.
>
> Though getting away from TM, I thought it should be appropriate to reply
here nonetheless.
>
> Reasons I'm a little sensitive to a one man show: 1) Not you, obviously,
but sometimes it's the scoutmaster running a mill of the sort you mention.
That's one reason the Committee should be handling advancement. 2) Our unit
has a SM who was running a one man show when I came along with my son about
10 years ago. One person cannot run a unit properly by himself, (even if he
has unlimited time, which our SM didn't, so lots of stuff wasn't getting
done) because the Committee has an agenda that is necessarily different from
the SM.
>
> The only other thing I'd like to offer here, and I'm responding to your
words here, is it's not up to you to get someone competent to do the
recordkeeping, it's the sponsoring organization and Committee's
responsibility to find someone to do that. Looks to me like you have a
committee and/or sponsoring organization that needs to better understand
and/or execute their roles.
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Peter
>

TM Traveler - Palm 700p

2009-11-19T09:19:49Z

I have been using TM Traveler for years on a Palm Treo 700p. However, I am now moving on to a new phone:A HTC Imagio (Windows Mobile) or a Blackberry. The HTC is no problem - TM Travel should work on WM system. My question, has anyone tried using the new Web-based on a Blackberry and how was the response? As good as having the TM Traveler software already on the phone? Thanks, Mike

Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-19T08:42:10Z

Just to clarify - I am the advancement coordinator. That is why I'm the one frustrated when I don't purchase/present the correct badges. In the last week I think I'm finally getting things cleaned up from a what appears to have been an accidental selection of the "Yes" back in April or May.

Like I'd said, using a redundant very simple Excel worksheet to track MBs and ranks should help prevent such issues in the future.

Ken

--- In TMTUG@..., "pbguerlain" <pbguerlain@...> wrote:

>
> Ken,
>
> Thank you for your thoughful response.
>
> Though getting away from TM, I thought it should be appropriate to reply here nonetheless.
>
> Reasons I'm a little sensitive to a one man show: 1) Not you, obviously, but sometimes it's the scoutmaster running a mill of the sort you mention. That's one reason the Committee should be handling advancement. 2) Our unit has a SM who was running a one man show when I came along with my son about 10 years ago. One person cannot run a unit properly by himself, (even if he has unlimited time, which our SM didn't, so lots of stuff wasn't getting done) because the Committee has an agenda that is necessarily different from the SM.
>
> The only other thing I'd like to offer here, and I'm responding to your words here, is it's not up to you to get someone competent to do the recordkeeping, it's the sponsoring organization and Committee's responsibility to find someone to do that. Looks to me like you have a committee and/or sponsoring organization that needs to better understand and/or execute their roles.
>
> Thanks for listening.
>
> Peter
>

Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-18T15:03:47Z

Ken,

Thank you for your thoughful response.

Though getting away from TM, I thought it should be appropriate to reply here nonetheless.

Reasons I'm a little sensitive to a one man show: 1) Not you, obviously, but sometimes it's the scoutmaster running a mill of the sort you mention. That's one reason the Committee should be handling advancement. 2) Our unit has a SM who was running a one man show when I came along with my son about 10 years ago. One person cannot run a unit properly by himself, (even if he has unlimited time, which our SM didn't, so lots of stuff wasn't getting done) because the Committee has an agenda that is necessarily different from the SM.

The only other thing I'd like to offer here, and I'm responding to your words here, is it's not up to you to get someone competent to do the recordkeeping, it's the sponsoring organization and Committee's responsibility to find someone to do that. Looks to me like you have a committee and/or sponsoring organization that needs to better understand and/or execute their roles.

Thanks for listening.

Peter

--- In TMTUG@..., "Ken" <khartman@...> wrote:

>
> Pete,
>
> I appreciate your concerns...I know only all too well, that I may not be around forever...but until then...well, let's just say, until I feel we have one I can trust with our boys records and keeping them up accurately again...it was the only option available.
>
> First off, when I had to step back from the Unit in 1998, during my divorce and handed it over to my very able Assistant to take over as presiding SM, things were still good. Had an excellent Advancment Chair then too. I was still registered as a Committee Member but could not keep on top of things while dealing with the personal issues then.
>
> When that Leader had to step back himself a year later, because he had to take his father into his home to care for him while he had Alzheimers, he too had to step away, by then our Advancement Chair had to pass the torch. It had changed hand three times since that time...
>
> All the while, with three different Advancement Chairs before I came back into the picture in 2007...none of those three had been using, much less kept the licensing up on the Troops Copy of TM...it was still Troopmaster Plus 4.0 then when I went into Hiatus...They'd even bought the TM ME but never touched it. When I came back and the third and current Advancement Chair in 2007 was also serving as the Unit's own personal MBC...needless to say, I'd seen several MB Cards of both her own son's as well as others sons with just her signature on them. That had to stop for starters...the Merit Badge Mill that is...
>
> When I would ask for the Advancement Reports, or to see the Advancement Records to see where each of the boys stood, I would get the run-a-round...this went on for about eight months...I had our CC fire the last Advancement Chair. When told to surrender all of the Troop's Advancement Records by both the former Advancement Chair and Scoutmaster, we got nothing. I basically had to start from scratch again...tracking down Advancement Reports from Council, etc...coming up with dates that boys had attended certain camping events, etc...
>
> I made up my mind, that if no one would put in the time it took to commit to doing the records correctly, and keeping the software up to date what better person knows where the boys stood and what they did than myself, the Scoutmaster. As I'm always there, always at every event, I knew who did what...records are straight, and that's the way they'll stay until I find someone reliable enough to do the job right. The Troop was unwilling to update the software, much less anyone competent enough to run the newer one, as opposed to the older TM Plus 4.0 or ME editions. We couldn't even retreive the data on the data backup disks from 4 or 5 years prior when they WERE still using it correctly.
>
> So, until this old fart gets someone he can trust again, committed to the Troop and accurate recordkeeping as I am, doesn't use excuses that they don't have the time to do it, I'll continue until I just can't go on anymore. I plan on being around and staying on to make sure the Unit succeeds long after my own sons have aged out, and these other parents have come and gone as well.
>
> Ken
> SM-Troop 57
> MC-Pack 57
>
>
>
> --- In TMTUG@..., "pbguerlain" <pbguerlain@> wrote:
> >
> > The reason those operators don't "know what they're doing" is because TM does not at it make it at all obvious the implications of clicking yes to the R/P prompt.
> >
> > Don, no, it's not an operator problem, it's an awful feature, one that's inconsistent with the concept of having each leader manage the data for their area of concern, and the fact that leaders with various degrees of understanding of TM will come and go as the units live on. Ken, To have to have one person manage all the TM data is just way too much work for one person. I know, I've tried.
> >
> > Yes, the software allows limiting certain leader's access to parts of the data, but it doesn't allow limiting access to checking yes or not that report, except possibly to those with no write access at all. (Not that that would be the right way to going about correcting this problem) I know I can tell the other leaders to always click no to the R/P prompt, but can I count on them to remember this? No. Is the alternative of being forced to manage all the data myself reasonable? Also no.
> >
> > Ken, for people like you, (look at your sig) who are also computer savvy enough to figure out how that feature works, and willing to do all the record-keeping yourself, sure, it's fine--if you last forever. But what about the person who comes along to replace you? Or, in a case like mine, (I am the TM admin) where the only person willing to be advancement chair is a doctor. (smart enough to be advancement chair but can hardly work a mouse, much less be expected to understand and remember the implications of clicking yes or no to that inoccuous prompt)
> >
> > As SM, you should not also be the Advancement Chair, that's a Committee position. Period. If you accept that, then your knees will start to knock when you realize that also involves releasing management (read: control) over the TM's clumsy administration of the valuable advancement data to someone else. Regardless, your day will come.
> >
> > To run a Troop as it should be, that is, in such a way that the various responsibilities are shared by multiple leaders, including that those various leaders manage the data for their areas of responsibility, TM supports that. But what korchleader suggested is excellent, it provides visibility into the implications of clicking yes to the checking R/P prompt. And of all the places an undo feature could be useful in TM, this is it!
> >
> > But to address this problem correctly, TM should decouple the bulk checking of P field from bulk checking the R field. When ever do all the boys due reporting show up to be presented their awards at the time the data is "Reported"? Never, because the advancement chair is probably doing the reporting at home at 1 AM. Click yes to that prompt, and TM loses track of all the stuff that remains to be presented. The prompt should only ask if one wants to bulk check off the R field, and leave the P fields alone. And, to actually help the advancement chair, the R field should be called the Reported field, the P field should be called the Presented field, and a third field should be added called the Recognized field. Neither the Presented nor the proposed Recognized field should have a bulk checkoff option, because the likelihood that everyone due presenting or recognizing will show up to receive same at the same time is very low.
> >
> > This would allow management of the fact that Reporting, Presenting and Recognition all happen at DIFFERENT POINTS IN TIME. The first is supposed to happen before one goes to buy the insignia, the next happens drib drab as boys make themselves available at meetings and events and get presented their insignia, and the third happens at a Court of Awards--for those boys who show up for that particular ceremony--for those who don't, the Recognized field that has yet to exist should remain unchecked until they show up at a subsequent Awards ceremony. That's why korchleader's suggestion is excellent, for example, after an awards ceremony, one should be able to bring up a table of all the stuff that was available to be presented at the ceremony and allow one to indicate which ones actually were recognized, leaving the rest unchecked so TM can be used to keep track of (ie report) the fact that those achievements remain to be recognized at the FOLLOWING awards ceremony.
> >
> > Peter Guerlain
> >
> > --- In TMTUG@..., "Ken" <khartman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > That's exactly the problem though...too many opperators making the errors that don't know what they're doing when using the software.
> > >
> > > That's why I made the suggestion I did to Ken, because he's realized that.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> > > --- In TMTUG@..., "Don" <dberglund@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Looks like operator problem, rather than software
> > > >
> > > > Don
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
> > > > korchleader
> > > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:21 PM
> > > > To: TMTUG@...
> > > > Subject: [TMTUG] The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is
> > > > Killing Me
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > When you run the Court of Honor/4403 report in TM ...
> > > >
> > > > If you generate the Unit Advancement Report and then close it you are
> > > > presented with an option to check all the items as "Reported" (that is the
> > > > 'R' in the Advancement section.
> > > >
> > > > If you generate the Court of Honor Report and then close it you get the a
> > > > similar option to check all the items as "Presented" (the 'P' in the
> > > > Advancement section).
> > > >
> > > > Well, this hit-one-button-and-change-a-whole-bunch-of-stuff method is really
> > > > messing me up. Maybe I'm selecting Yes instead of No when offered that
> > > > option, but then again, maybe its another adult in the troop with access to
> > > > this report - such as the Scoutmaster. Whichever, this thing is killing me!!
> > > >
> > > > This year alone it has made me miss presenting six boys with their Personal
> > > > Fitness badges completed last May, and now I just discovered that it also
> > > > made me miss four Cit in the Nation badges earned last May. Of course my
> > > > suspicion is there was one ooops-click in May and now I'm paying the price.
> > > >
> > > > I really wish TM would change the way it does this. I wish it would present
> > > > a column of names & items involved in the Advancement Report and/or the
> > > > Court or Honor, and then columns with Reports and/or Presented checkboxes. I
> > > > would then go down the list and check wether or not I acquired the badges
> > > > and whether or not the appropriate people were present to obtain their
> > > > awards.
> > > >
> > > > As discussed before here, there should actually be a third COH column -
> > > > which would get checked when their accomplishment had been recognized at a
> > > > COH.
> > > >
> > > > I'm now at the point where I need to keep a separate Excel spreadsheet to
> > > > make sure I don't overlook a badge, since I just can't trust TM. Sigh. That
> > > > Yes/No has too many ramifications for being so easy to get wrong ... and
> > > > once you hit Yes ... its too late - you can't undo it.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: TroopMaster Web

2009-11-16T12:42:50Z

If the public name of the certificate matches the hostname presented by the server, the secure chain will be valid. The server IP address is relevant to the secure browsing process only insofar as it is the pointer by which the client locates the server.

As for methods of managing public DNS records when one has only a dynamic IP address, by way of example, at home I have a UVerse residential connection with one public, dynamic IP address. My domains are registered with GoDaddy, and my DNS is hosted by DNSExit. I run the inadyn client through a stunnel SSL connection to OpenDNS' DNS-O-Matic dynamic update servers, which in turn update my DNSExit records, as well as non-DNS records at other service providers. When my IP changes,

A simpler way to go would be to just use DNSExit's update client, but I need much more functionality. :)

Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-16T12:18:30Z

There are pop-ups in *Master that could benefit from a revision wherein there is no default action selected when the window is created..........or........that the default action is non-damaging.

Re: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-16T10:15:32Z

At 11:53 AM 11/16/2009, korchleader wrote:
>It might be nice if TM would offer to limit access to certain key
>areas when starting - such as read only access to personal data, to
>PORs, to advancement data ... That would allow us to pre-determine
>exactly what we are planning to do when launching TM. More than half
>the time we are just generating reports. Still, some times we know
>we are going in to modify certain information.

You could create two different passwords for yourself, and have it
always prompt for password on startup. Use one when you want full
access, and one for the restricted access.

>--- In <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>TMTUG@...,
>"korchleader" <kkortge@...> wrote:
> >
> > I agree 100%, BUT ... software can be written so as to minimize
> the impact of operator error. In this case just one wrong answer
> can impact lots of boys and cause misery for an advancement
> coordinator.
> >
> > I'm not sure if I hit the Yes, or if the SM hit the yes ... it
> doesn't really matter, but right now I'm manually having to e-mail
> each Scout and find out exactly which badges they have and which
> they don't.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > --- In <mailto:TMTUG%40yahoogroups.com>TMTUG@...,
> "Don" <dberglund@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Looks like operator problem, rather than software
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> >
>
>

--
Greg Marr
gregm@...

Re: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-16T10:00:10Z

It has been my experience with TM they can be accommodating but you have to ask. Request in writing what you are looking for and why you believe that it will be an enhancement to their software for everyone.

One thing that I know to be true is many run reports and have no idea the impact of answering yes or no to the prompts. Well there is a good reason to have the prompts but I do agree there could be three prompts that would separate presented, reported and scout received.

----- Original Message -----
From: Ken
To: TMTUG@...
Sent: Monday, November 16, 2009 12:42 PM
Subject: [TMTUG] Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

Pete,

I appreciate your concerns...I know only all too well, that I may not be around forever...but until then...well, let's just say, until I feel we have one I can trust with our boys records and keeping them up accurately again...it was the only option available.

First off, when I had to step back from the Unit in 1998, during my divorce and handed it over to my very able Assistant to take over as presiding SM, things were still good. Had an excellent Advancment Chair then too. I was still registered as a Committee Member but could not keep on top of things while dealing with the personal issues then.

When that Leader had to step back himself a year later, because he had to take his father into his home to care for him while he had Alzheimers, he too had to step away, by then our Advancement Chair had to pass the torch. It had changed hand three times since that time...

All the while, with three different Advancement Chairs before I came back into the picture in 2007...none of those three had been using, much less kept the licensing up on the Troops Copy of TM...it was still Troopmaster Plus 4.0 then when I went into Hiatus...They'd even bought the TM ME but never touched it. When I came back and the third and current Advancement Chair in 2007 was also serving as the Unit's own personal MBC...needless to say, I'd seen several MB Cards of both her own son's as well as others sons with just her signature on them. That had to stop for starters...the Merit Badge Mill that is...

When I would ask for the Advancement Reports, or to see the Advancement Records to see where each of the boys stood, I would get the run-a-round...this went on for about eight months...I had our CC fire the last Advancement Chair. When told to surrender all of the Troop's Advancement Records by both the former Advancement Chair and Scoutmaster, we got nothing. I basically had to start from scratch again...tracking down Advancement Reports from Council, etc...coming up with dates that boys had attended certain camping events, etc...

I made up my mind, that if no one would put in the time it took to commit to doing the records correctly, and keeping the software up to date what better person knows where the boys stood and what they did than myself, the Scoutmaster. As I'm always there, always at every event, I knew who did what...records are straight, and that's the way they'll stay until I find someone reliable enough to do the job right. The Troop was unwilling to update the software, much less anyone competent enough to run the newer one, as opposed to the older TM Plus 4.0 or ME editions. We couldn't even retreive the data on the data backup disks from 4 or 5 years prior when they WERE still using it correctly.

So, until this old fart gets someone he can trust again, committed to the Troop and accurate recordkeeping as I am, doesn't use excuses that they don't have the time to do it, I'll continue until I just can't go on anymore. I plan on being around and staying on to make sure the Unit succeeds long after my own sons have aged out, and these other parents have come and gone as well.

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57

--- In TMTUG@..., "pbguerlain" <pbguerlain@...> wrote:
>
> The reason those operators don't "know what they're doing" is because TM does not at it make it at all obvious the implications of clicking yes to the R/P prompt.
>
> Don, no, it's not an operator problem, it's an awful feature, one that's inconsistent with the concept of having each leader manage the data for their area of concern, and the fact that leaders with various degrees of understanding of TM will come and go as the units live on. Ken, To have to have one person manage all the TM data is just way too much work for one person. I know, I've tried.
>
> Yes, the software allows limiting certain leader's access to parts of the data, but it doesn't allow limiting access to checking yes or not that report, except possibly to those with no write access at all. (Not that that would be the right way to going about correcting this problem) I know I can tell the other leaders to always click no to the R/P prompt, but can I count on them to remember this? No. Is the alternative of being forced to manage all the data myself reasonable? Also no.
>
> Ken, for people like you, (look at your sig) who are also computer savvy enough to figure out how that feature works, and willing to do all the record-keeping yourself, sure, it's fine--if you last forever. But what about the person who comes along to replace you? Or, in a case like mine, (I am the TM admin) where the only person willing to be advancement chair is a doctor. (smart enough to be advancement chair but can hardly work a mouse, much less be expected to understand and remember the implications of clicking yes or no to that inoccuous prompt)
>
> As SM, you should not also be the Advancement Chair, that's a Committee position. Period. If you accept that, then your knees will start to knock when you realize that also involves releasing management (read: control) over the TM's clumsy administration of the valuable advancement data to someone else. Regardless, your day will come.
>
> To run a Troop as it should be, that is, in such a way that the various responsibilities are shared by multiple leaders, including that those various leaders manage the data for their areas of responsibility, TM supports that. But what korchleader suggested is excellent, it provides visibility into the implications of clicking yes to the checking R/P prompt. And of all the places an undo feature could be useful in TM, this is it!
>
> But to address this problem correctly, TM should decouple the bulk checking of P field from bulk checking the R field. When ever do all the boys due reporting show up to be presented their awards at the time the data is "Reported"? Never, because the advancement chair is probably doing the reporting at home at 1 AM. Click yes to that prompt, and TM loses track of all the stuff that remains to be presented. The prompt should only ask if one wants to bulk check off the R field, and leave the P fields alone. And, to actually help the advancement chair, the R field should be called the Reported field, the P field should be called the Presented field, and a third field should be added called the Recognized field. Neither the Presented nor the proposed Recognized field should have a bulk checkoff option, because the likelihood that everyone due presenting or recognizing will show up to receive same at the same time is very low.
>
> This would allow management of the fact that Reporting, Presenting and Recognition all happen at DIFFERENT POINTS IN TIME. The first is supposed to happen before one goes to buy the insignia, the next happens drib drab as boys make themselves available at meetings and events and get presented their insignia, and the third happens at a Court of Awards--for those boys who show up for that particular ceremony--for those who don't, the Recognized field that has yet to exist should remain unchecked until they show up at a subsequent Awards ceremony. That's why korchleader's suggestion is excellent, for example, after an awards ceremony, one should be able to bring up a table of all the stuff that was available to be presented at the ceremony and allow one to indicate which ones actually were recognized, leaving the rest unchecked so TM can be used to keep track of (ie report) the fact that those achievements remain to be recognized at the FOLLOWING awards ceremony.
>
> Peter Guerlain
>
> --- In TMTUG@..., "Ken" <khartman@> wrote:
> >
> > That's exactly the problem though...too many opperators making the errors that don't know what they're doing when using the software.
> >
> > That's why I made the suggestion I did to Ken, because he's realized that.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > --- In TMTUG@..., "Don" <dberglund@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Looks like operator problem, rather than software
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
> > > korchleader
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:21 PM
> > > To: TMTUG@...
> > > Subject: [TMTUG] The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is
> > > Killing Me
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > When you run the Court of Honor/4403 report in TM ...
> > >
> > > If you generate the Unit Advancement Report and then close it you are
> > > presented with an option to check all the items as "Reported" (that is the
> > > 'R' in the Advancement section.
> > >
> > > If you generate the Court of Honor Report and then close it you get the a
> > > similar option to check all the items as "Presented" (the 'P' in the
> > > Advancement section).
> > >
> > > Well, this hit-one-button-and-change-a-whole-bunch-of-stuff method is really
> > > messing me up. Maybe I'm selecting Yes instead of No when offered that
> > > option, but then again, maybe its another adult in the troop with access to
> > > this report - such as the Scoutmaster. Whichever, this thing is killing me!!
> > >
> > > This year alone it has made me miss presenting six boys with their Personal
> > > Fitness badges completed last May, and now I just discovered that it also
> > > made me miss four Cit in the Nation badges earned last May. Of course my
> > > suspicion is there was one ooops-click in May and now I'm paying the price.
> > >
> > > I really wish TM would change the way it does this. I wish it would present
> > > a column of names & items involved in the Advancement Report and/or the
> > > Court or Honor, and then columns with Reports and/or Presented checkboxes. I
> > > would then go down the list and check wether or not I acquired the badges
> > > and whether or not the appropriate people were present to obtain their
> > > awards.
> > >
> > > As discussed before here, there should actually be a third COH column -
> > > which would get checked when their accomplishment had been recognized at a
> > > COH.
> > >
> > > I'm now at the point where I need to keep a separate Excel spreadsheet to
> > > make sure I don't overlook a badge, since I just can't trust TM. Sigh. That
> > > Yes/No has too many ramifications for being so easy to get wrong ... and
> > > once you hit Yes ... its too late - you can't undo it.
> > >
> >
>

Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-16T09:42:47Z

Pete,

I appreciate your concerns...I know only all too well, that I may not be around forever...but until then...well, let's just say, until I feel we have one I can trust with our boys records and keeping them up accurately again...it was the only option available.

First off, when I had to step back from the Unit in 1998, during my divorce and handed it over to my very able Assistant to take over as presiding SM, things were still good. Had an excellent Advancment Chair then too. I was still registered as a Committee Member but could not keep on top of things while dealing with the personal issues then.

When that Leader had to step back himself a year later, because he had to take his father into his home to care for him while he had Alzheimers, he too had to step away, by then our Advancement Chair had to pass the torch. It had changed hand three times since that time...

All the while, with three different Advancement Chairs before I came back into the picture in 2007...none of those three had been using, much less kept the licensing up on the Troops Copy of TM...it was still Troopmaster Plus 4.0 then when I went into Hiatus...They'd even bought the TM ME but never touched it. When I came back and the third and current Advancement Chair in 2007 was also serving as the Unit's own personal MBC...needless to say, I'd seen several MB Cards of both her own son's as well as others sons with just her signature on them. That had to stop for starters...the Merit Badge Mill that is...

When I would ask for the Advancement Reports, or to see the Advancement Records to see where each of the boys stood, I would get the run-a-round...this went on for about eight months...I had our CC fire the last Advancement Chair. When told to surrender all of the Troop's Advancement Records by both the former Advancement Chair and Scoutmaster, we got nothing. I basically had to start from scratch again...tracking down Advancement Reports from Council, etc...coming up with dates that boys had attended certain camping events, etc...

I made up my mind, that if no one would put in the time it took to commit to doing the records correctly, and keeping the software up to date what better person knows where the boys stood and what they did than myself, the Scoutmaster. As I'm always there, always at every event, I knew who did what...records are straight, and that's the way they'll stay until I find someone reliable enough to do the job right. The Troop was unwilling to update the software, much less anyone competent enough to run the newer one, as opposed to the older TM Plus 4.0 or ME editions. We couldn't even retreive the data on the data backup disks from 4 or 5 years prior when they WERE still using it correctly.

So, until this old fart gets someone he can trust again, committed to the Troop and accurate recordkeeping as I am, doesn't use excuses that they don't have the time to do it, I'll continue until I just can't go on anymore. I plan on being around and staying on to make sure the Unit succeeds long after my own sons have aged out, and these other parents have come and gone as well.

Ken
SM-Troop 57
MC-Pack 57

--- In TMTUG@..., "pbguerlain" <pbguerlain@...> wrote:

>
> The reason those operators don't "know what they're doing" is because TM does not at it make it at all obvious the implications of clicking yes to the R/P prompt.
>
> Don, no, it's not an operator problem, it's an awful feature, one that's inconsistent with the concept of having each leader manage the data for their area of concern, and the fact that leaders with various degrees of understanding of TM will come and go as the units live on. Ken, To have to have one person manage all the TM data is just way too much work for one person. I know, I've tried.
>
> Yes, the software allows limiting certain leader's access to parts of the data, but it doesn't allow limiting access to checking yes or not that report, except possibly to those with no write access at all. (Not that that would be the right way to going about correcting this problem) I know I can tell the other leaders to always click no to the R/P prompt, but can I count on them to remember this? No. Is the alternative of being forced to manage all the data myself reasonable? Also no.
>
> Ken, for people like you, (look at your sig) who are also computer savvy enough to figure out how that feature works, and willing to do all the record-keeping yourself, sure, it's fine--if you last forever. But what about the person who comes along to replace you? Or, in a case like mine, (I am the TM admin) where the only person willing to be advancement chair is a doctor. (smart enough to be advancement chair but can hardly work a mouse, much less be expected to understand and remember the implications of clicking yes or no to that inoccuous prompt)
>
> As SM, you should not also be the Advancement Chair, that's a Committee position. Period. If you accept that, then your knees will start to knock when you realize that also involves releasing management (read: control) over the TM's clumsy administration of the valuable advancement data to someone else. Regardless, your day will come.
>
> To run a Troop as it should be, that is, in such a way that the various responsibilities are shared by multiple leaders, including that those various leaders manage the data for their areas of responsibility, TM supports that. But what korchleader suggested is excellent, it provides visibility into the implications of clicking yes to the checking R/P prompt. And of all the places an undo feature could be useful in TM, this is it!
>
> But to address this problem correctly, TM should decouple the bulk checking of P field from bulk checking the R field. When ever do all the boys due reporting show up to be presented their awards at the time the data is "Reported"? Never, because the advancement chair is probably doing the reporting at home at 1 AM. Click yes to that prompt, and TM loses track of all the stuff that remains to be presented. The prompt should only ask if one wants to bulk check off the R field, and leave the P fields alone. And, to actually help the advancement chair, the R field should be called the Reported field, the P field should be called the Presented field, and a third field should be added called the Recognized field. Neither the Presented nor the proposed Recognized field should have a bulk checkoff option, because the likelihood that everyone due presenting or recognizing will show up to receive same at the same time is very low.
>
> This would allow management of the fact that Reporting, Presenting and Recognition all happen at DIFFERENT POINTS IN TIME. The first is supposed to happen before one goes to buy the insignia, the next happens drib drab as boys make themselves available at meetings and events and get presented their insignia, and the third happens at a Court of Awards--for those boys who show up for that particular ceremony--for those who don't, the Recognized field that has yet to exist should remain unchecked until they show up at a subsequent Awards ceremony. That's why korchleader's suggestion is excellent, for example, after an awards ceremony, one should be able to bring up a table of all the stuff that was available to be presented at the ceremony and allow one to indicate which ones actually were recognized, leaving the rest unchecked so TM can be used to keep track of (ie report) the fact that those achievements remain to be recognized at the FOLLOWING awards ceremony.
>
> Peter Guerlain
>
> --- In TMTUG@..., "Ken" <khartman@> wrote:
> >
> > That's exactly the problem though...too many opperators making the errors that don't know what they're doing when using the software.
> >
> > That's why I made the suggestion I did to Ken, because he's realized that.
> >
> > Ken
> >
> > --- In TMTUG@..., "Don" <dberglund@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Looks like operator problem, rather than software
> > >
> > > Don
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: TMTUG@... [mailto:TMTUG@...] On Behalf Of
> > > korchleader
> > > Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 2:21 PM
> > > To: TMTUG@...
> > > Subject: [TMTUG] The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is
> > > Killing Me
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > When you run the Court of Honor/4403 report in TM ...
> > >
> > > If you generate the Unit Advancement Report and then close it you are
> > > presented with an option to check all the items as "Reported" (that is the
> > > 'R' in the Advancement section.
> > >
> > > If you generate the Court of Honor Report and then close it you get the a
> > > similar option to check all the items as "Presented" (the 'P' in the
> > > Advancement section).
> > >
> > > Well, this hit-one-button-and-change-a-whole-bunch-of-stuff method is really
> > > messing me up. Maybe I'm selecting Yes instead of No when offered that
> > > option, but then again, maybe its another adult in the troop with access to
> > > this report - such as the Scoutmaster. Whichever, this thing is killing me!!
> > >
> > > This year alone it has made me miss presenting six boys with their Personal
> > > Fitness badges completed last May, and now I just discovered that it also
> > > made me miss four Cit in the Nation badges earned last May. Of course my
> > > suspicion is there was one ooops-click in May and now I'm paying the price.
> > >
> > > I really wish TM would change the way it does this. I wish it would present
> > > a column of names & items involved in the Advancement Report and/or the
> > > Court or Honor, and then columns with Reports and/or Presented checkboxes. I
> > > would then go down the list and check wether or not I acquired the badges
> > > and whether or not the appropriate people were present to obtain their
> > > awards.
> > >
> > > As discussed before here, there should actually be a third COH column -
> > > which would get checked when their accomplishment had been recognized at a
> > > COH.
> > >
> > > I'm now at the point where I need to keep a separate Excel spreadsheet to
> > > make sure I don't overlook a badge, since I just can't trust TM. Sigh. That
> > > Yes/No has too many ramifications for being so easy to get wrong ... and
> > > once you hit Yes ... its too late - you can't undo it.
> > >
> >
>

Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-16T08:53:10Z

BTW, the SM and I (Advancement Coordinator) are sort of joint TM administrators, so we both have full access. We have set up the passwords for limited access to other leaders, but the fact that the SM has full access does put the advancement data a bit at risk.

It might be nice if TM would offer to limit access to certain key areas when starting - such as read only access to personal data, to PORs, to advancement data ... That would allow us to pre-determine exactly what we are planning to do when launching TM. More than half the time we are just generating reports. Still, some times we know we are going in to modify certain information.

--- In TMTUG@..., "korchleader" <kkortge@...> wrote:

>
> I agree 100%, BUT ... software can be written so as to minimize the impact of operator error. In this case just one wrong answer can impact lots of boys and cause misery for an advancement coordinator.
>
> I'm not sure if I hit the Yes, or if the SM hit the yes ... it doesn't really matter, but right now I'm manually having to e-mail each Scout and find out exactly which badges they have and which they don't.
>
> Ken
>
> --- In TMTUG@..., "Don" <dberglund@> wrote:
> >
> > Looks like operator problem, rather than software
> >
> > Don
> >
>

Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-16T08:45:31Z

I agree 100%, BUT ... software can be written so as to minimize the impact of operator error. In this case just one wrong answer can impact lots of boys and cause misery for an advancement coordinator.

I'm not sure if I hit the Yes, or if the SM hit the yes ... it doesn't really matter, but right now I'm manually having to e-mail each Scout and find out exactly which badges they have and which they don't.

Ken

--- In TMTUG@..., "Don" <dberglund@...> wrote:
>
> Looks like operator problem, rather than software
>
> Don
>

Re: Re: The Auto-Check R/P option for the Court of Honor Report is Killing Me

2009-11-16T07:58:58Z

>But to address this problem correctly, TM should decouple the bulk
>checking of P field from bulk checking the R field.

They are, when the reports are run separately. I almost never run an
advancement report and a CoH report at the same time. I run the
advancement reports, submit them all to the council, and then just
before the CoH, I run the CoH report. As soon as I produce the final
report, I tell TM to check the P box. I assemble an envelope for
each scout containing all the awards. After the CoH, I store the
envelopes for those scouts that didn't attend, to be presented at a
later time.

>And, to actually help the advancement chair, the R field should be
>called the Reported field, the P field should be called the
>Presented field, and a third field should be added called the
>Recognized field. Neither the Presented nor the proposed Recognized
>field should have a bulk checkoff option, because the likelihood
>that everyone due presenting or recognizing will show up to receive
>same at the same time is very low.

I have actually requested a third field for "badge presented", which
would come logically between the R and P fields, and would be checked
when a scout has been presented before the CoH. That would probably
be an individual checkoff, but the current P would remain just as it
is now. The new flag would show up on the CoH report so I know who
still needs the badge, and would be checked along with the P field
when the CoH report is run.

>This would allow management of the fact that Reporting, Presenting
>and Recognition all happen at DIFFERENT POINTS IN TIME. The first is
>supposed to happen before one goes to buy the insignia, the next
>happens drib drab as boys make themselves available at meetings and
>events and get presented their insignia, and the third happens at a
>Court of Awards--for those boys who show up for that particular
>ceremony--for those who don't, the Recognized field that has yet to
>exist should remain unchecked until they show up at a subsequent
>Awards ceremony. That's why korchleader's suggestion is excellent,
>for example, after an awards ceremony, one should be able to bring
>up a table of all the stuff that was available to be presented at
>the ceremony and allow one to indicate which ones actually were
>recognized, leaving the rest unchecked so TM can be used to keep
>track of (ie report) the fact that those achievements remain to be
>recognized at the FOLLOWING awards ceremony.

How then do you distinguish between "I have made up this card, but
haven't given it to the scout" and "I haven't yet made up this
card"? This would need to be a FOURTH field:
1. Reported to Council
2. Badge presented
3. Card prepared for CoH
4. Presented at CoH

Since you have the physical card after #3, I don't see the need for #4.

The current meaning of "R" and "P" is really "TM has prepared the
Advancement Report for the Council" and "TM has prepared the Court of
Honor report". It doesn't track that you have physically sent the
Advancement Report to the council and physically presented the
contents of the Court of Honor report to the scouts.

--
Greg Marr
gregm@...