UK Public Rights of Way
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UK Public Rights of Way
by antonys
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I'm aware that there have been several postings on this kind of question, but I would appreciate some advice/guidance if possible. I'm engaged in a discussion with my local authority, from whom I am trying to get a digital version of the Public Rights of Way map (PROW) for use on OSM. They have refused, on the basis that there are known errors in the data, and "There are risks for a local authority in releasing erroneous prow data. People or bodies might make decisions on the basis of erroneous information and subsequently be entitled to compensation."
Is this reasonable, especially bearing in mind that their own paper version of the 'definitive map', which is the only version accessible to the public, dates from 1956? My argument is that they could release the current (digital) version for OSM use, and instantly (or as soon as the data was uploaded/traced), provide the public with a better version, at almost zero cost. I am pursuing this through my local councillor, and also considering an FOI request, but would be interested to hear of any similar work on UK PROW issues, and in particular of any success stories or legal opinion on the liability issue one way or another. thanks Antony Scott |
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Re: UK Public Rights of Way
by Bugzilla from tom@compton.nu
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On 17/09/09 17:53, antonys wrote:
> I'm aware that there have been several postings on this kind of question, but > I would appreciate some advice/guidance if possible. I'm engaged in a > discussion with my local authority, from whom I am trying to get a digital > version of the Public Rights of Way map (PROW) for use on OSM. They have > refused, on the basis that there are known errors in the data, and "There > are risks for a local authority in releasing erroneous prow data. People or > bodies might make decisions on the basis of erroneous information and > subsequently be entitled to compensation." Do you have any reason to believe that, even if you could get them to give you this, it would be unencumbered and suitable for us to use? My guess would be that it has almost certainly been derived from Ordnance Survey data in some way which would render it unusable. > Is this reasonable, especially bearing in mind that their own paper version > of the 'definitive map', which is the only version accessible to the public, > dates from 1956? My argument is that they could release the current > (digital) version for OSM use, and instantly (or as soon as the data was > uploaded/traced), provide the public with a better version, at almost zero > cost. If the definitive map is really still based on a 1956 OS map then that actually becomes quite interesting because such a map must, by definition, now be out of copyright... > I am pursuing this through my local councillor, and also considering an FOI > request, but would be interested to hear of any similar work on UK PROW > issues, and in particular of any success stories or legal opinion on the > liability issue one way or another. Bear in mind that even if you get it with an FOI request that does not give you permission to copy or distribute it to anybody else - copyright and database rights still apply in the normal way to information obtained via FOIA unless explicitly waived. Tom -- Tom Hughes (tom@...) http://www.compton.nu/ _______________________________________________ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk |
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Re: UK Public Rights of Way
by Richard Fairhurst
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antonys wrote:
> I'm engaged in a discussion with my local authority, > from whom I am trying to get a digital version of the > Public Rights of Way map (PROW) for use on OSM. It'll almost certainly be OS-derived and therefore not suitable for OSM, I'm afraid. Even if they wanted to release it, the OS wouldn't hear of it. cheers Richard |
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Re: UK Public Rights of Way
by antonys
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Re: OS derivation - interestingly, in the course of a long conversation and a couple of email exchanges, the officer at the council did not raise this as an issue. The understanding I have is that the data flow is the other way round - ie that the council updates the OS with incremental changes and the OS update their mapping. The council's digital map is the result of an incomplete exercise in digitisation which they now have access to internally, but is not available externally. It is this resource, which appears to be council derived, that I would like to get hold of. Ideally by persuasion, if we can persuade the council that it would be better to have this data in the public domain than not.
As to the 1956 version of the definitive map being out of copright - good point, but how could I get a copy of it? It is a paper version of course, available for inspection at the council's offices. I suppose I could take a camera, or just ask if I could have a copy.... it does date from 1956 though, so how much use it will be is another question.
Antony
2009/9/17 Richard Fairhurst <richard@...>
_______________________________________________ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk |
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Re: UK Public Rights of Way
by Bugzilla from tom@compton.nu
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On 17/09/09 20:46, Antony Scott wrote:
> Re: OS derivation - interestingly, in the course of a long conversation > and a couple of email exchanges, the officer at the council did not > raise this as an issue. The understanding I have is that the data flow > is the other way round - ie that the council updates the OS with > incremental changes and the OS update their mapping. The council's > digital map is the result of an incomplete exercise in digitisation > which they now have access to internally, but is not available > externally. It is this resource, which appears to be council derived, > that I would like to get hold of. Ideally by persuasion, if we can > persuade the council that it would be better to have this data in the > public domain than not. Yes, the council will be sending the data they create describing the routes of paths to the OS but they will also be using OS data when creating that description - if a path goes from the junction of two roads to the corner of a field then they will likely locate those features on a OS map and draw a line between them. > As to the 1956 version of the definitive map being out of copright - > good point, but how could I get a copy of it? It is a paper version of > course, available for inspection at the council's offices. I suppose I > could take a camera, or just ask if I could have a copy.... it does date > from 1956 though, so how much use it will be is another question. It's not the map itself that is interesting, it's the paths they have drawn on it (many of which post date 1956 presumably) but if they have only used that old map in doing so then there is no derivation problem. Of course like you I'm not sure, from a practical point of view, how you would make use of that. Tom -- Tom Hughes (tom@...) http://www.compton.nu/ _______________________________________________ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk |
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Re: UK Public Rights of Way
by Liz-25
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On Fri, 18 Sep 2009, Tom Hughes wrote:
> Yes, the council will be sending the data they create describing the > routes of paths to the OS but they will also be using OS data when > creating that description - if a path goes from the junction of two > roads to the corner of a field then they will likely locate those > features on a OS map and draw a line between them. This needs to be determined - I know from personal contact that here, in my local council area in australia, the GIS staff go out with GPS equipment to determine where things are. _______________________________________________ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@... http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk |
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