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 Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
It's back! Manchester will be celebrating the release of Ubuntu 9.10,
Karmic Koala with a release party.
The event will be at the Pitcher & Piano on Deansgate Locks from 6pm
until late on Friday 30th October. That's the day after the official
release. The party is free to attend and no sign up is necessary.
There will be free wifi and expect people to have ISOs of Ubuntu 9.10
(and Kubuntu, etc) available.
The Pitcher & Piano is a public house, so unfortunately under 18s will
not be admitted after 7pm and anyone fortunate enough to look under 25
should bring ID.
The Ubuntu 9.04 release party attracted over 60 people. Lets make this
one even better!
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
2009/10/18 Matt Lee < mattl@...>:
> On 10/17/2009 12:02 PM, Lucy wrote:
>
>> The Ubuntu 9.04 release party attracted over 60 people. Lets make this
>> one even better!
>
> Just to be sure, this isn't an FSUK Manchester event?
Nope, it's an Ubuntu-UK related event, but posted to local LUGs and FS
groups. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Although, quite what you'd have
against a FS group having fun and celebrating the release of a hugely
popular set of free software I don't know.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 08:37:55AM +0100, Lucy wrote:
> [The Ubuntu release party is] an Ubuntu-UK related event, but posted
> to local LUGs and FS groups. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Although,
> quite what you'd have against a FS group having fun and celebrating
> the release of a hugely popular set of free software I don't know.
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/common-distros.htmlSimon
--
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simple system that works.—John Gall
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
2009/10/18 Simon Ward < simon@...>:
> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 08:37:55AM +0100, Lucy wrote:
>> [The Ubuntu release party is] an Ubuntu-UK related event, but posted
>> to local LUGs and FS groups. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Although,
>> quite what you'd have against a FS group having fun and celebrating
>> the release of a hugely popular set of free software I don't know.
>
> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/common-distros.htmlFair enough that Matt Lee would toe to the FSF line, since he's a part
of them. It's a pity though that many free software advocates miss
opportunities like these because they'd rather wait until 'perfection'
is reached.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 09:04:03PM +0100, Lucy wrote:
> > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/common-distros.html>
> Fair enough that Matt Lee would toe to the FSF line, since he's a part
> of them. It's a pity though that many free software advocates miss
> opportunities like these because they'd rather wait until 'perfection'
> is reached.
I don’t subscribe to the line of thought that suggests there are
missed opportunities for free software from promoting distributions
that encourage the use of proprietary software when it’s “convenient”.
Simon
--
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simple system that works.—John Gall
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 09:23:16PM +0100, Simon Ward wrote:
> I don’t subscribe to the line of thought that suggests there are
> missed opportunities for free software from promoting distributions
> that encourage the use of proprietary software when it’s “convenient”.
I’m unsure if there should be a “not” in there. What I meant, of
course, was that I believe that endorsing proprietary software,
directly or indirectly, does nothing for the free software philosophy,
and actually works against it.
Simon
--
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
2009/10/18 Simon Ward < simon@...>:
> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 09:23:16PM +0100, Simon Ward wrote:
>> I don’t subscribe to the line of thought that suggests there are
>> missed opportunities for free software from promoting distributions
>> that encourage the use of proprietary software when it’s “convenient”.
>
> I’m unsure if there should be a “not” in there. What I meant, of
> course, was that I believe that endorsing proprietary software,
> directly or indirectly, does nothing for the free software philosophy,
> and actually works against it.
Whereas, I think that including some small amounts of proprietary
software in order to make a large amount of free software usable for
the majority of people is sometimes necessary. I'm not saying that
it's a good thing, just unfortunately required.
I also think that it's sad people aren't celebrating the free aspects
of Ubuntu and other Linux OSs and instead concentrate solely on
critising what's missing.
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
Simon,
Simon Ward wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 09:23:16PM +0100, Simon Ward wrote:
>> I don’t subscribe to the line of thought that suggests there are
>> missed opportunities for free software from promoting distributions
>> that encourage the use of proprietary software when it’s “convenient”.
>
> I’m unsure if there should be a “not” in there. What I meant, of
> course, was that I believe that endorsing proprietary software,
> directly or indirectly, does nothing for the free software philosophy,
> and actually works against it.
Personally, I'd rather run a system that is 95% free and 5% proprietary
than one which is 100% proprietary. And if that 5% means my hardware
works and I can do all the things I want/need to do, then doesn't that
mean it's enabled me to run the 95% free part?
Regards,
Tony.
--
Tony Arnold, Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6093
Head of IT Security, Fax: +44 (0) 870 136 1004
University of Manchester, Mob: +44 (0) 773 330 0039
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 09:51:48PM +0100, Tony Arnold wrote:
> Personally, I'd rather run a system that is 95% free and 5% proprietary
> than one which is 100% proprietary.
That doesn’t mean I should endorse that system in the name of free
software.
> And if that 5% means my hardware works and I can do all the things I
> want/need to do, then doesn't that mean it's enabled me to run the
> 95% free part?
No, because you could have sought alternative free drivers, and at
least encouraged the development of them, or bought free software
friendly hardware, and still have been able to use the 95% free part.
Simon
--
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 09:51:35PM +0100, Lucy wrote:
> Whereas, I think that including some small amounts of proprietary
> software in order to make a large amount of free software usable for
> the majority of people is sometimes necessary. I'm not saying that
> it's a good thing, just unfortunately required.
Not something I would promote. Instead, I accept that certain
distributions undervalue free software. I might promote them for
other reasons, but not for their (lack of) commitment to free
software.
> I also think that it's sad people aren't celebrating the free aspects
> of Ubuntu and other Linux OSs and instead concentrate solely on
> critising what's missing.
It only takes one incumbent piece of proprietary software to make the
system as a whole effectively proprietary, and susceptible to the
disadvantages that proprietary software has. I’d rather not celebrate
this, especially when there are distributions that follow the free
software guidelines.
Simon
--
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simple system that works.—John Gall
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
> Not something I would promote. Instead, I accept that certain
> distributions undervalue free software. I might promote them for
> other reasons, but not for their (lack of) commitment to free
> software.
>
I love this perenial debate.
It made want to know what distro each of you first used? Can we
initiate a poll?
How many of you fell straight onto one true path?
I wager a bet that many of you took a while to come to value Freedom.
It took me a while before I settled into Debian. I tried quite a few
OS's and distro's before I found the path of righteousness.
I am very keen on Free Software and I understand the need to carry the
flame of purity so as to light the way.
But a few years ago I chose to split my usage due to practical/lazy/time
reasons between Ubuntu and Debian. It meant that I could live entirely
without Windows. I am not a coder, I am a kludger, a sysadmin, a
trainer and a businessman. It is *much* more work to follow the path of
Freedom as a business GNU/Linux user, which is something hackers seem to
forget sometimes. ; )
To be honest an the idea of an Ubuntu Launch party makes my skin crawl,
however surely it is a prime opportunity to expose people to the path of
righteousness or at least demonstrate that we are humans too.
But no it is not a FS thing, thanks for reminding me Matt. But thanks
Lucy for reminding me, maybe I will turn up in my Debian kilt or summat,
Matthew
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
On Sunday 18 Oct 2009 23:07:21 Matthew Edmondson wrote:
> It made want to know what distro each of you first used? Can we
> initiate a poll?
Yggdrasil, then SuSE, RedHat and Caldera before going frantic and trying
everything.
> How many of you fell straight onto one true path?
True path? We could not even drive the SCSI CD drives at the start. Now I get
choices.
> I wager a bet that many of you took a while to come to value Freedom.
My freedom, or yours? Do I get to chose what I do with my system and yes I do
have a single gNewSense box.
> It took me a while before I settled into Debian. I tried quite a few
> OS's and distro's before I found the path of righteousness.
Still trying everything until someone out there makes it all perfect for me.
(And my requirements change daily if not hourly. Just now (1:15am Monday
morning) I need a system that speaks in an English voice for a partially
sighted person with a web cam attached).
> I am very keen on Free Software and I understand the need to carry the
> flame of purity so as to light the way.
Great. If I promise to listen, will you spend the time to show me?
> But a few years ago I chose to split my usage due to practical/lazy/time
> reasons between Ubuntu and Debian. It meant that I could live entirely
> without Windows. I am not a coder, I am a kludger, a sysadmin, a
> trainer and a businessman. It is *much* more work to follow the path of
> Freedom as a business GNU/Linux user, which is something hackers seem to
> forget sometimes. ; )
>
> To be honest an the idea of an Ubuntu Launch party makes my skin crawl,
Why? Did you attend the last? Did you not get a cake?
> however surely it is a prime opportunity to expose people to the path of
> righteousness or at least demonstrate that we are humans too.
> But no it is not a FS thing, thanks for reminding me Matt. But thanks
> Lucy for reminding me, maybe I will turn up in my Debian kilt or summat,
I am willing to listen and be shown a truer way. Come and explain over a beer.
John
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
>
> If you believe the FSF, even Debian isn't a free software distribution
Indeed you are right Paul. And yes, my faith was rocked when I came to
understand that Debian itself was not entirely pure (but I have got over
that now).
I apologise for prematurely sharing my personal feelings about what a
'release party' might or might not be like. I realise that my
impressions are unfounded. So I will attend without prejudice the
upcoming event of enthusiasm for the next release of Ubuntu - "Linux for
Human Beings"(TM?). Will there be cake?
Whilst this is not entirely on the topic of FS, the discussion about how
to most usefully engage with non FS users does seem worthwhile.
(I am downloading gNewSense now, inspiring stuff.)
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
Let's be honest here guys, an Ubuntu launch party is more about cake than about politics. It's a chance for a load of rather geeky people to come together in a safe environment where they aren't likely to be assaulted by the football fans in the pub. It's a chance to wear that t-shirt you bought in good faith without feeling a total pillock. And mostly it's about social networking.
So with that said, lambasting such an event is a bit self-defeating, as we need these kinds of events to provide some welcome non-geekiness to the community. Whilst the event itself may not involve life changing utopian epiphanies, nor achieve a direct change of software licensing model, I for one prefer the taste of the cake than whatever the illustrious leader Stallman finds on his foot...
With free software there is a real danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Which is better, a system which is 1% free software or a system which is 0% free software? Even though the other 99% is fully closed and proprietary, the 1% is still a starting point. We should be celebrating what has already been achieved rather than pointing and booing at what has yet to be achieved. If, as Lucy says, we are totally opposed to anything which doesn't reach some perceived standard of perfection, then we might as well give up now as I suspect we'll never actually achieve that standard. Aspire yes, reach no. If in 15 years we still haven't got anything resembling a workable production release of Hurd, I can't say I hold out much hope for the immediate future.
And as has also been mentioned, very few end users will be willing to sacrifice functionality for theoretical philosophical freedom. What use is a totally 'free' operating system if it doesn't actually boot and you need to give a presentation in 15 minutes? It's not selling out to use Ubuntu, it's about acknowledging that we aren't perfect ourselves as a community, and sometimes need to get off our high-horse and learn from those around us ... including proprietary code. Then, when we've learned what we need to, we can go replicate and introduce freedom to that market area again.
So go to the launch party, eat some cake (which I might point out, you won't have to pay for -- how's that for free!), and let's all have a good time rather than sulking over pipe-dreams.
Just my £0.02
Pete
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
Pete,
My sentiments exactly!
Tony. (Excuse the top posting)
Pete Morris wrote:
> Let's be honest here guys, an Ubuntu launch party is more about cake
> than about politics. It's a chance for a load of rather geeky people
> to come together in a safe environment where they aren't likely to be
> assaulted by the football fans in the pub. It's a chance to wear that
> t-shirt you bought in good faith without feeling a total pillock. And
> mostly it's about social networking.
>
> So with that said, lambasting such an event is a bit self-defeating,
> as we need these kinds of events to provide some welcome
> non-geekiness to the community. Whilst the event itself may not
> involve life changing utopian epiphanies, nor achieve a direct change
> of software licensing model, I for one prefer the taste of the cake
> than whatever the illustrious leader Stallman finds on his foot...
>
> With free software there is a real danger of throwing the baby out
> with the bathwater. Which is better, a system which is 1% free
> software or a system which is 0% free software? Even though the other
> 99% is fully closed and proprietary, the 1% is still a starting
> point. We should be celebrating what has already been achieved rather
> than pointing and booing at what has yet to be achieved. If, as Lucy
> says, we are totally opposed to anything which doesn't reach some
> perceived standard of perfection, then we might as well give up now
> as I suspect we'll never actually achieve that standard. Aspire yes,
> reach no. If in 15 years we still haven't got anything resembling a
> workable production release of Hurd, I can't say I hold out much hope
> for the immediate future.
>
> And as has also been mentioned, very few end users will be willing to
> sacrifice functionality for theoretical philosophical freedom. What
> use is a totally 'free' operating system if it doesn't actually boot
> and you need to give a presentation in 15 minutes? It's not selling
> out to use Ubuntu, it's about acknowledging that we aren't perfect
> ourselves as a community, and sometimes need to get off our
> high-horse and learn from those around us ... including proprietary
> code. Then, when we've learned what we need to, we can go replicate
> and introduce freedom to that market area again.
>
> So go to the launch party, eat some cake (which I might point out,
> you won't have to pay for -- how's that for free!), and let's all
> have a good time rather than sulking over pipe-dreams.
>
> Just my £0.02
>
> Pete
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Fsuk-manchester
> mailing list Fsuk-manchester@...
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsuk-manchester--
Tony Arnold, Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6093
Head of IT Security, Fax: +44 (0) 870 136 1004
University of Manchester, Mob: +44 (0) 773 330 0039
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
Most people probably don't realise it, but by creating this
discussion/argument about the fundamentals of software freedom in this
mailing list, the launch party is already benefiting the greater cause
of software freedom. Anything that promotes discourse on FOSS vs.
proprietary software is a good thing!
Users migrating from Windows have certain expectations of their software
which unfortunately (at the moment) can only be met by the
inclusion/advertisement of proprietary software. Ubuntu is tailored to
Windows users who are inquisitive about Linux, it's hands-off approach
is familiar to them. it brings more and more people into the Linux camp
every day.
Why is this important? Because intelligent and inquisitive users often
explore the philosophy behind GNU/Linux by themselves. Ubuntu is getting
Linux to the masses. It's a good first step on the path to GNUdom, and
we should be promoting it.
As a free software organization, it's our duty to ensure that we don't
just install linux on people's computers, we have to educate them about
GNU philosophy too. Where better to do so than at a Ubuntu launch party?
If you really really believe in software freedom, you should see this as
an opportunity to spread the GNU philosophy to people who are interested
and prepared to listen!
Be proactive about free software, not elitist.
--James
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
Some parts of this message have been removed.
Learn more about Nabble's security policy.
... fair points made by all, I'd say. Good that this kind of
discussion can be had in a balanced and measured way - everybody gets to have
their say and no-one's shouted down. Good for the free software community I
say.
A launch party for software that's free (beer), to
help to build the community and freedoms (speech) that's behind it all. Cake
too.
Admission free (price to join in, upgrade your already working
software to the new one, between $120-$220 (or $200 to $300 to buy new)
plus upgrading all your other software, not to mention signing up to the EULA
and other loss(es) of freedom((s)).
Des
(PS What's top-posting?)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 11:01
AM
Subject: Re: [Fsuk-manchester] Ubuntu
9.10 Release Party - 30th October
Pete,
My sentiments exactly!
Tony. (Excuse the
top posting)
Pete Morris wrote:> Let's be honest here guys, an
Ubuntu launch party is more about cake > than about politics. It's a
chance for a load of rather geeky people > to come together in a safe
environment where they aren't likely to be > assaulted by the football
fans in the pub. It's a chance to wear that > t-shirt you bought in good
faith without feeling a total pillock. And > mostly it's about social
networking. > > So with that said, lambasting such an event is a
bit self-defeating, > as we need these kinds of events to provide some
welcome > non-geekiness to the community. Whilst the event itself may
not > involve life changing utopian epiphanies, nor achieve a direct
change > of software licensing model, I for one prefer the taste of the
cake > than whatever the illustrious leader Stallman finds on his
foot... > > With free software there is a real danger of throwing
the baby out > with the bathwater. Which is better, a system which is 1%
free > software or a system which is 0% free software? Even though the
other > 99% is fully closed and proprietary, the 1% is still a
starting > point. We should be celebrating what has already been
achieved rather > than pointing and booing at what has yet to be
achieved. If, as Lucy > says, we are totally opposed to anything which
doesn't reach some > perceived standard of perfection, then we might as
well give up now > as I suspect we'll never actually achieve that
standard. Aspire yes, > reach no. If in 15 years we still haven't got
anything resembling a > workable production release of Hurd, I can't say
I hold out much hope > for the immediate future. > > And as
has also been mentioned, very few end users will be willing to >
sacrifice functionality for theoretical philosophical freedom. What >
use is a totally 'free' operating system if it doesn't actually boot >
and you need to give a presentation in 15 minutes? It's not selling >
out to use Ubuntu, it's about acknowledging that we aren't perfect >
ourselves as a community, and sometimes need to get off our > high-horse
and learn from those around us ... including proprietary > code. Then,
when we've learned what we need to, we can go replicate > and introduce
freedom to that market area again. > > So go to the launch party,
eat some cake (which I might point out, > you won't have to pay for --
how's that for free!), and let's all > have a good time rather than
sulking over pipe-dreams. > > Just my £0.02 > >
Pete > > > >
_______________________________________________ Fsuk-manchester >
mailing list Fsuk-manchester@...
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/fsuk-manchester
--
Tony
Arnold,
Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 6093
Head of IT
Security,
Fax: +44 (0) 870 136 1004
University of
Manchester, Mob:
+44 (0) 773 330 0039
Manchester M13
9PL.
Email: tony.arnold@...
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Re: Ubuntu 9.10 Release Party - 30th October
2009/10/18 Matthew Edmondson < matthew@...>:
> To be honest an the idea of an Ubuntu Launch party makes my skin crawl,
> however surely it is a prime opportunity to expose people to the path of
> righteousness or at least demonstrate that we are humans too.
Why would it make your skin crawl?
It's a great opportunity to celebrate the hard work of the people who
make such a brilliant and popular distro.
It's also a great chance for geeks from different groups in the North
West to get together for a common cause, to chat and to have fun.
> But no it is not a FS thing, thanks for reminding me Matt. But thanks Lucy
> for reminding me, maybe I will turn up in my Debian kilt or summat,
I hope you do turn up, and if you do, you won't be the only one in
Debian clothing. Debian is a great distro and it makes Ubuntu
possible.
It's not necessary to run Ubuntu, or even like it, to be able to go to
the party. Last time there was a great mix of people and a really good
atmosphere.
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