Upcoming Boost V1.41 release

[Hartmut Kaiser]

Hey,

As you know Boost V1.41 will be released really soon (read somewhere during
the next 2 weeks). As you know as well, the new Spirit V2.1 will be part of
this release.

We would like to ask everybody to find some spare time to read through the
newly written docs (currently here: http://tinyurl.com/ojalum) and to test
your existing code against the upcoming beta. Please try to find things you
would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken links, and
all other kind of quirks.

Boost V1.41 will be in beta for a couple of days at least, so this gives us
a bit of time to incorporate minor changes to the docs, and if really
needed, to the code. Please report any issues (as minor as they might seem)
on this list as soon as possible, allowing us to take care of the actual
fix.

That's your chance to get famous! Use it! ;-)

Regards Hartmut

-------------------
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[Joel de Guzman-2]

Hartmut Kaiser wrote:

>
> That's your chance to get famous! Use it! ;-)

:-) Thanks, Hartmut.

Regards,
--
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[Ray Burkholder]

>
> We would like to ask everybody to find some spare time to read through
> the
> newly written docs (currently here: http://tinyurl.com/ojalum) and to
> test
> your existing code against the upcoming beta. Please try to find things
> you
> would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken links,
> and
> all other kind of quirks.
>

A few comments as I slowly come up to speed on Spirit:

On
http://svn.boost.org/svn/boost/trunk/libs/spirit/doc/html/spirit/qi/tutorial
s/semantic_actions.html, much time is spent on boost::bind and then a
passing reference to Phoenix is presented.  Would it be a good idea to
reverse the roles:  spend the page on Phoenix and make a passing reference
to Bind?

On
http://svn.boost.org/svn/boost/trunk/libs/spirit/doc/html/spirit/qi/tutorial
s/mini_xml___asts_.html, perhaps a provide an expansion on what AST stands
for, and what it means.

In the generator stuff, there is a 'format()' to stream method, where is
that documented?


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[Dainis Polis]

Hartmut Kaiser wrote:
> would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken links, and
> all other kind of quirks.
>
>  
in trunk/libs/spirit/doc/html/spirit/qi/reference/numeric/boolean.html
is text BP::parse_true(f, l, n)
There is no notation for n


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[CARL BARRON-3]

On Oct 30, 2009, at 2:02 AM, Dainis Polis wrote:

> Hartmut Kaiser wrote:
>> would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken  
>> links, and
>> all other kind of quirks.
>>
>>
> in trunk/libs/spirit/doc/html/spirit/qi/reference/numeric/boolean.html
> is text BP::parse_true(f, l, n)
> There is no notation for n
>

   also note that the example parser_false has four arguments
        (Iterator &,const Iterator &, Attribute &, Context &)



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[Stephan Menzel-4]

On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Hartmut Kaiser
<hartmut.kaiser@...> wrote:
> As you know Boost V1.41 will be released really soon (read somewhere during
> the next 2 weeks). As you know as well, the new Spirit V2.1 will be part of
> this release.

At last! Great stuff, congrats!

> We would like to ask everybody to find some spare time to read through the
> newly written docs (currently here: http://tinyurl.com/ojalum) and to test
> your existing code against the upcoming beta. Please try to find things you
> would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken links, and
> all other kind of quirks.

You did quite a lot of improvement on the docs. Thanks. Looking better
than ever.

Cheers,
Stephan

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[Daniel James]

On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Hartmut Kaiser
<hartmut.kaiser@...> wrote:
>
> Please report any issues (as minor as they might seem)
> on this list as soon as possible, allowing us to take care of the actual
> fix.

I got a bit confused converting calls to bind to their equivalent in
phoenix because I used the phoenix placeholders. It isn't clear that
you need to use the qi placeholders. It is implied, since all the
examples use them, but it's never explicitly stated and there's no
reason to suspect that phoenix actions will be treated differently to
other actions. An admonition at an appropriate point might help.

thanks,

Daniel

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[Hartmut Kaiser]

> > We would like to ask everybody to find some spare time to read
> through
> > the
> > newly written docs (currently here: http://tinyurl.com/ojalum) and to
> > test
> > your existing code against the upcoming beta. Please try to find
> things
> > you
> > would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken
> links,
> > and
> > all other kind of quirks.
>
> A few comments as I slowly come up to speed on Spirit:
>
> On
> http://svn.boost.org/svn/boost/trunk/libs/spirit/doc/html/spirit/qi/tut
> orial
> s/semantic_actions.html, much time is spent on boost::bind and then a
> passing reference to Phoenix is presented.  Would it be a good idea to
> reverse the roles:  spend the page on Phoenix and make a passing
> reference
> to Bind?

Yeah, the current situation is a bit of unfortunate as we were planning to
add a whole section about writing semantic actions using Phoenix. But we
simply didn't make it on time :(

There will be much more material in future versions of the docs.

> On
> http://svn.boost.org/svn/boost/trunk/libs/spirit/doc/html/spirit/qi/tut
> orial
> s/mini_xml___asts_.html, perhaps a provide an expansion on what AST
> stands
> for, and what it means.

Ok, point taken. We probably need an abbreviation index... *sigh*

> In the generator stuff, there is a 'format()' to stream method, where
> is that documented?

Here: http://tinyurl.com/yjq5p8g.

Regards Hartmut

-------------------
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http://boostcon.com




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[Hartmut Kaiser]

> Hartmut Kaiser wrote:
> > would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken
> links, and
> > all other kind of quirks.
> >
> >
> in trunk/libs/spirit/doc/html/spirit/qi/reference/numeric/boolean.html
> is text BP::parse_true(f, l, n)
> There is no notation for n

Fixed. Thanks!

Regards Hartmut

-------------------
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[Hartmut Kaiser]

> > Hartmut Kaiser wrote:
> >> would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken
> >> links, and
> >> all other kind of quirks.
> >>
> >>
> > in
> trunk/libs/spirit/doc/html/spirit/qi/reference/numeric/boolean.html
> > is text BP::parse_true(f, l, n)
> > There is no notation for n
> >
>
>    also note that the example parser_false has four arguments
> (Iterator &,const Iterator &, Attribute &, Context &)

Yeah, thanks. Fixed.
Regards Hartmut

-------------------
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[Hartmut Kaiser]

> On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 12:58 AM, Hartmut Kaiser
> <hartmut.kaiser@...> wrote:
> > As you know Boost V1.41 will be released really soon (read somewhere
> during
> > the next 2 weeks). As you know as well, the new Spirit V2.1 will be
> part of
> > this release.
>
> At last! Great stuff, congrats!
>
> > We would like to ask everybody to find some spare time to read
> through the
> > newly written docs (currently here: http://tinyurl.com/ojalum) and to
> test
> > your existing code against the upcoming beta. Please try to find
> things you
> > would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken
> links, and
> > all other kind of quirks.
>
> You did quite a lot of improvement on the docs. Thanks. Looking better
> than ever.

Thanks! It's really very hard to write docs, so we're happy to get that far.

Regards Hartmut

-------------------
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[Ray Burkholder]

>
> > On
> >
> http://svn.boost.org/svn/boost/trunk/libs/spirit/doc/html/spirit/qi/tut
> > orial
> > s/mini_xml___asts_.html, perhaps a provide an expansion on what AST
> > stands
> > for, and what it means.
>
> Ok, point taken. We probably need an abbreviation index... *sigh*
>

For the time being, a simple expansion to 'AST (Abstract Syntax Tree)' would
probably suffice.  I was reading along the tutorial and hit AST, and being
not familiar with the term, I had to sit back for a bit and figure out what
was happening.


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[Joel de Guzman-2]

Daniel James wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Hartmut Kaiser
> <hartmut.kaiser@...> wrote:
>> Please report any issues (as minor as they might seem)
>> on this list as soon as possible, allowing us to take care of the actual
>> fix.
>
> I got a bit confused converting calls to bind to their equivalent in
> phoenix because I used the phoenix placeholders. It isn't clear that
> you need to use the qi placeholders. It is implied, since all the
> examples use them, but it's never explicitly stated and there's no
> reason to suspect that phoenix actions will be treated differently to
> other actions. An admonition at an appropriate point might help.

Noted. As Hartmut mentioned, there will be more introductory notes
on Phoenix in the (hopefully near) future. In the meantime, I did
as you suggested and added a note at the very first use of
the placeholders in the tutorial. If you have a better idea on
where to place the blurb. I'd welcome a suggestion.

Patched.

Regards,
--
Joel de Guzman
http://www.boostpro.com
http://spirit.sf.net
http://www.facebook.com/djowel

Meet me at BoostCon
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[Hartmut Kaiser]

> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Hartmut Kaiser
> <hartmut.kaiser@...> wrote:
> >
> > Please report any issues (as minor as they might seem)
> > on this list as soon as possible, allowing us to take care of the
> actual
> > fix.
>
> I got a bit confused converting calls to bind to their equivalent in
> phoenix because I used the phoenix placeholders. It isn't clear that
> you need to use the qi placeholders. It is implied, since all the
> examples use them, but it's never explicitly stated and there's no
> reason to suspect that phoenix actions will be treated differently to
> other actions. An admonition at an appropriate point might help.

Good point. I added some appropriate admonitions.

Thanks!
Regards Hartmut

-------------------
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[Hartmut Kaiser]

> Daniel James wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Hartmut Kaiser
> > <hartmut.kaiser@...> wrote:
> >> Please report any issues (as minor as they might seem)
> >> on this list as soon as possible, allowing us to take care of the
> actual
> >> fix.
> >
> > I got a bit confused converting calls to bind to their equivalent in
> > phoenix because I used the phoenix placeholders. It isn't clear that
> > you need to use the qi placeholders. It is implied, since all the
> > examples use them, but it's never explicitly stated and there's no
> > reason to suspect that phoenix actions will be treated differently to
> > other actions. An admonition at an appropriate point might help.
>
> Noted. As Hartmut mentioned, there will be more introductory notes
> on Phoenix in the (hopefully near) future. In the meantime, I did
> as you suggested and added a note at the very first use of
> the placeholders in the tutorial. If you have a better idea on
> where to place the blurb. I'd welcome a suggestion.

Hey, you beat me! :-P

Regards Hartmut

-------------------
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[Joel de Guzman-2]

Hartmut Kaiser wrote:

>> Daniel James wrote:
>>> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Hartmut Kaiser
>>> <hartmut.kaiser@...> wrote:
>>>> Please report any issues (as minor as they might seem)
>>>> on this list as soon as possible, allowing us to take care of the
>> actual
>>>> fix.
>>> I got a bit confused converting calls to bind to their equivalent in
>>> phoenix because I used the phoenix placeholders. It isn't clear that
>>> you need to use the qi placeholders. It is implied, since all the
>>> examples use them, but it's never explicitly stated and there's no
>>> reason to suspect that phoenix actions will be treated differently to
>>> other actions. An admonition at an appropriate point might help.
>> Noted. As Hartmut mentioned, there will be more introductory notes
>> on Phoenix in the (hopefully near) future. In the meantime, I did
>> as you suggested and added a note at the very first use of
>> the placeholders in the tutorial. If you have a better idea on
>> where to place the blurb. I'd welcome a suggestion.
>
> Hey, you beat me! :-P

Wouldn't hurt to have more :-)

Regards,
--
Joel de Guzman
http://www.boostpro.com
http://spirit.sf.net
http://www.facebook.com/djowel

Meet me at BoostCon
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[Dennison, Ted]

Hartmut Kaiser wrote:
> Yeah, the current situation is a bit of unfortunate as we were
planning to
> add a whole section about writing semantic actions using Phoenix. But
we
> simply didn't make it on time :(

Oh God yes. You may have noticed from the mailing list traffic that was
the one thing that's really been giving me fits.

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[Darid Tromer]

Would it be possible to have a general expression parser such as STX
be made available in the examples section of the documentation?

Such a complete example written using the new Spirit would make using
Spirit that much easier. People can come and rapidly customize their
use (remove/add the things they need) of such a parser without the
need to fully learn every single corner of Spirit - instead they can
gradually learn. I believe such a complete example made available
under a boost license is a must and a deal breaker for getting new
comers interested in using Spirit.

Please don't rely on the examples made available in "Spirit
Applications Repository" to provide an introduction, as most of them
are out of date, not complete, GPL'd or just aren't implemented in the
best way possible, Also the "new" documentation is great and
informative but it is so enthralled in the details and specifics. Most
people  for a first go round just want something to copy-paste,
quickly customize, compile and run.

In any case STX can be found here: http://idlebox.net/2007/stx-exparser/

Darid

Hartmut Kaiser wrote:

> Hey,
>
> As you know Boost V1.41 will be released really soon (read somewhere during
> the next 2 weeks). As you know as well, the new Spirit V2.1 will be part of
> this release.
>
> We would like to ask everybody to find some spare time to read through the
> newly written docs (currently here: http://tinyurl.com/ojalum) and to test
> your existing code against the upcoming beta. Please try to find things you
> would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken links, and
> all other kind of quirks.
>
> Boost V1.41 will be in beta for a couple of days at least, so this gives us
> a bit of time to incorporate minor changes to the docs, and if really
> needed, to the code. Please report any issues (as minor as they might seem)
> on this list as soon as possible, allowing us to take care of the actual
> fix.
>
> That's your chance to get famous! Use it! ;-)
>
> Regards Hartmut

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[Hartmut Kaiser]

> Would it be possible to have a general expression parser such as STX
> be made available in the examples section of the documentation?
>
> Such a complete example written using the new Spirit would make using
> Spirit that much easier. People can come and rapidly customize their
> use (remove/add the things they need) of such a parser without the
> need to fully learn every single corner of Spirit - instead they can
> gradually learn. I believe such a complete example made available
> under a boost license is a must and a deal breaker for getting new
> comers interested in using Spirit.
>
> Please don't rely on the examples made available in "Spirit
> Applications Repository" to provide an introduction, as most of them
> are out of date, not complete, GPL'd or just aren't implemented in the
> best way possible, Also the "new" documentation is great and
> informative but it is so enthralled in the details and specifics. Most
> people  for a first go round just want something to copy-paste,
> quickly customize, compile and run.
>
> In any case STX can be found here: http://idlebox.net/2007/stx-
> exparser/

Did you see the calculator series of examples in the libs/spirit/example/qi
directory? There is even a full blown mini-C interpreter for your perusal.
What's missing there?

Regards Hartmut

-------------------
Meet me at BoostCon
http://boostcon.com

>
> Darid
>
> Hartmut Kaiser wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > As you know Boost V1.41 will be released really soon (read somewhere
> during
> > the next 2 weeks). As you know as well, the new Spirit V2.1 will be
> part of
> > this release.
> >
> > We would like to ask everybody to find some spare time to read
> through the
> > newly written docs (currently here: http://tinyurl.com/ojalum) and to
> test
> > your existing code against the upcoming beta. Please try to find
> things you
> > would like to see rectified: typos, missing descriptions, broken
> links, and
> > all other kind of quirks.
> >
> > Boost V1.41 will be in beta for a couple of days at least, so this
> gives us
> > a bit of time to incorporate minor changes to the docs, and if really
> > needed, to the code. Please report any issues (as minor as they might
> seem)
> > on this list as soon as possible, allowing us to take care of the
> actual
> > fix.
> >
> > That's your chance to get famous! Use it! ;-)
> >
> > Regards Hartmut
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------
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> developing skills, take BlackBerry mobile applications to market and
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> ahead of the curve. Join us from November 9 - 12, 2009. Register now!
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[Darid Tromer]

On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Hartmut Kaiser <hartmut.kaiser@...> wrote:

Did you see the calculator series of examples in the libs/spirit/example/qi
directory? There is even a full blown mini-C interpreter for your perusal.
What's missing there?

I've had a look at the Qi examples, the calc examples are too simplistic and limited and the mini_c is not complete and too complex for someone just wanting to get started.

The STX parser does the following:

1. Simple numerical expression
2. evaluation based on variables
3. Functions with variable arguments
4. Casting between types (the guy that wrote it did so before boost.variant was around so he wrote his own optional type)
5. Common operations on all types, eg: add strings together, add a string to a double (double promoted to string etc...)
6. Due to points 3 and 4 you can perform expression parsing/eval quickly/efficiently on all int type expressions (most expression parser/evals treat all numbers as floats or doubles)

The whole thing is simple to use in the sense you copy-paste the library into your code base and use, None of the examples in the Qi directory come close to having all these functions, a user starting out doesn't want to learn the in's and out's of expression parsing/evaluation (try getting a new comer to understand the mini_c example, which btw doesn't have support shift operations which STX does on valid types, or proper string handling)

Spirit is such a valuable resource, it could be made that much more accessible to the masses with a few critical and central examples that people can build upon and not just learn from.

Another issue, take the "Employee - Parsing into structs" example. Believe it or not, this is a really critical example of showing the power of Qi. Why use such a simplistic model for the problem? some will say given the constraints I can do the same thing using strtok or some stl algos. why not provide an example that parses an employee struct that looks like the following:

employee{ age=23, surname="doe", name="john", salary=1000.123 }

or how about:

  employee{ name="john",
                  age=23,
      surname="doe",
          salary=1000.123
          }

These kinds of examples even though simple to most people on this ML are really difficult to get right for most people in the general community, they are also how data of this type is is commonly formatted stored when not using xml like schemes. Also such examples as with the expression parser are useful and general enough for people to use and build-upon.

I have another 5 examples just from the new documentation where simple changes to the proposed "problem" can make it that much more interesting and useful. You guys have done a great job with this library, I'm just making these comments because I think the power of the library should be better marketed to non-experts such as myself.

We're not all dumb - so don't make things too simplistic, but at the same time, we don't all have the luxury to spend the amount of time needed to implement Qi from scratch, there has to be a middle ground. :)


Darid



PS: from the new documentation how does one view the qi examples, I was only able to see them by going to them directly http://svn.boost.org/svn/boost/trunk/libs/spirit/example/qi/

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