VFR VTEC - What's the deal?

[Kirk-16]

I am fairly new to the VFR world (but not the V4) and don't really
understand what all of the negative clamor is about concerning the VFRs
that have the VTEC technology that I see going by on the list from time
to time. What's the deal? As far as cars go, I am completely enamored
and amazed with my VTEC. I have owned Honda Civics for years and now own
a 2007 Honda Civic Si i-VTEC (6-speed manual :-) fun fun fun). This is a
FABULOUS and incredible car for a 4 cylinder engine. I'm not saying it's
the very best or the fastest or the most powerful of all. I just love
it, though. The red line is very high, just like my VFR (which is not
VTEC BTW). When the VTEC kicks in at about 5500, it becomes a whole
other creature that is totally amazing....and FUN too! The burst of
power...the sound...the feel. Simply by the experience I have had with
the Civic VTEC, I have been looking forward to a VFR with VTEC. This is
actually my long term goal. After paying this one off, I hope to advance
to a newer VFR VTEC version, with all of the sport touring equipment. (I
will keep this one as well though). So before I do, what is this
negative attitude about that I see go by on the list from time to time?
When it does get mentioned, no ones seems to counter it, so I don't
understand? I have no personal experience, so I thought I would ask you
guys for your feedback. Is it just personal experience or has there been
technical problems with the motorcycle version of VTEC?

Kirk
Texas

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[Fred Wills]

Kirk wrote:

>I am fairly new to the VFR world (but not the V4) and don't really
>understand what all of the negative clamor is about concerning the VFRs
>that have the VTEC technology that I see going by on the list from time
>to time. What's the deal? As far as cars go, I am completely enamored
>and amazed with my VTEC. I have owned Honda Civics for years and now own
>a 2007 Honda Civic Si i-VTEC (6-speed manual :-) fun fun fun). This is a
>FABULOUS and incredible car for a 4 cylinder engine. I'm not saying it's
>the very best or the fastest or the most powerful of all. I just love
>it, though. The red line is very high, just like my VFR (which is not
>VTEC BTW). When the VTEC kicks in at about 5500, it becomes a whole
>other creature that is totally amazing....and FUN too! The burst of
>power...the sound...the feel. Simply by the experience I have had with
>the Civic VTEC, I have been looking forward to a VFR with VTEC. This is
>actually my long term goal. After paying this one off, I hope to advance
>to a newer VFR VTEC version, with all of the sport touring equipment. (I
>will keep this one as well though). So before I do, what is this
>negative attitude about that I see go by on the list from time to time?
>When it does get mentioned, no ones seems to counter it, so I don't
>understand? I have no personal experience, so I thought I would ask you
>guys for your feedback. Is it just personal experience or has there been
>technical problems with the motorcycle version of VTEC?
>
>Kirk
>Texas
>
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>vfr mailing list
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>
>  
>

VTEC on cars is different that the implementation on the VFR engine.

Search around a bit and you'll get the straight scoop

--

-Fred W

'98 Honda VFR800Fi SPORTtourer
'05 Yammi FJR1300 SPORTTOURER
'05 Kawi KLR650 Adventure Tourer

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[Kirk Robinson]

Oh No the VTEC question!!

VTEC on a VFR is NOT nearly the same as your Civic, but I won't go into all the details. I have a VTEC and used to own a 5th gen.

I like my VTEC, I loved my 5th gen. Maybe I still haven't bonded with it yet, less riding has been done on my VTEC, having a kid and all at home now.

VTEC is a fine motorcycle, better for touring with factory hard bags, and suspension is a little better.

Any comments you will hear are purely subjective, if you want a VTEC test ride one, then decide..

What a rambling reply..

(another) Kirk

----- Original Message ----
From: Kirk <kirk.allen@...>
To: vfr@...
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2007 12:01:48 PM
Subject: VFR VTEC - What's the deal?


I am fairly new to the VFR world (but not the V4) and don't really
understand what all of the negative clamor is about concerning the VFRs
that have the VTEC technology that I see going by on the list from time
to time. What's the deal? As far as cars go, I am completely enamored
and amazed with my VTEC. I have owned Honda Civics for years and now own
a 2007 Honda Civic Si i-VTEC (6-speed manual :-) fun fun fun). This is a
FABULOUS and incredible car for a 4 cylinder engine. I'm not saying it's
the very best or the fastest or the most powerful of all. I just love
it, though. The red line is very high, just like my VFR (which is not
VTEC BTW). When the VTEC kicks in at about 5500, it becomes a whole
other creature that is totally amazing....and FUN too! The burst of
power...the sound...the feel. Simply by the experience I have had with
the Civic VTEC, I have been looking forward to a VFR with VTEC. This is
actually my long term goal. After paying this one off, I hope to advance
to a newer VFR VTEC version, with all of the sport touring equipment. (I
will keep this one as well though). So before I do, what is this
negative attitude about that I see go by on the list from time to time?
When it does get mentioned, no ones seems to counter it, so I don't
understand? I have no personal experience, so I thought I would ask you
guys for your feedback. Is it just personal experience or has there been
technical problems with the motorcycle version of VTEC?

Kirk
Texas

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[Bob Chappuis]

Hi Kirk,

My opinion is that the 6th gen is ugly compared to earlier generations.
Honda simply copied some Aprilia and Ducati styling and did so badly.

>From  what  I understand, the VTEC technology as applied to the VFR adds
nothing  to  performance  or even efficiency but increases maintenance
work/cost.

Also,  they eliminated the gear driven cam system which was a positive
feature on previous generations in most owners opinions.

Most  VFR  fans  hoped  for  larger  displacement and/or weight loss
to  compete with competition such as the Triumph Sprint in performance
rather than a pointless exercise in added complexity.




Cheers,
Bob

Wednesday, May 2, 2007, 11:01:48 AM, you wrote:

> I am fairly new to the VFR world (but not the V4) and don't really
> understand what all of the negative clamor is about concerning the VFRs
> that have the VTEC technology that I see going by on the list from time
> to time. What's the deal? As far as cars go, I am completely enamored
> and amazed with my VTEC. I have owned Honda Civics for years and now own
> a 2007 Honda Civic Si i-VTEC (6-speed manual :-) fun fun fun). This is a
> FABULOUS and incredible car for a 4 cylinder engine. I'm not saying it's
> the very best or the fastest or the most powerful of all. I just love
> it, though. The red line is very high, just like my VFR (which is not
> VTEC BTW). When the VTEC kicks in at about 5500, it becomes a whole
> other creature that is totally amazing....and FUN too! The burst of
> power...the sound...the feel. Simply by the experience I have had with
> the Civic VTEC, I have been looking forward to a VFR with VTEC. This is
> actually my long term goal. After paying this one off, I hope to advance
> to a newer VFR VTEC version, with all of the sport touring equipment. (I
> will keep this one as well though). So before I do, what is this
> negative attitude about that I see go by on the list from time to time?
> When it does get mentioned, no ones seems to counter it, so I don't
> understand? I have no personal experience, so I thought I would ask you
> guys for your feedback. Is it just personal experience or has there been
> technical problems with the motorcycle version of VTEC?

> Kirk
> Texas

> _______________________________________________
> vfr mailing list
> vfr@...
> For subscription and delivery options:
> https://lists.cs.wisc.edu/mailman/listinfo/vfr

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[Jerry Penny]

On Wednesday 02 May 2007 10:01 am, Kirk wrote:

> I am fairly new to the VFR world (but not the V4) and don't really
> understand what all of the negative clamor is about concerning the VFRs
> that have the VTEC technology that I see going by on the list from time
> to time. What's the deal? As far as cars go, I am completely enamored
> and amazed with my VTEC. I have owned Honda Civics for years and now own
> a 2007 Honda Civic Si i-VTEC (6-speed manual :-) fun fun fun). This is a
> FABULOUS and incredible car for a 4 cylinder engine. I'm not saying it's
> the very best or the fastest or the most powerful of all. I just love
> it, though. The red line is very high, just like my VFR (which is not
> VTEC BTW). When the VTEC kicks in at about 5500, it becomes a whole
> other creature that is totally amazing....and FUN too! The burst of
> power...the sound...the feel. Simply by the experience I have had with
> the Civic VTEC, I have been looking forward to a VFR with VTEC. This is
> actually my long term goal. After paying this one off, I hope to advance
> to a newer VFR VTEC version, with all of the sport touring equipment. (I
> will keep this one as well though). So before I do, what is this
> negative attitude about that I see go by on the list from time to time?
> When it does get mentioned, no ones seems to counter it, so I don't
> understand? I have no personal experience, so I thought I would ask you
> guys for your feedback. Is it just personal experience or has there been
> technical problems with the motorcycle version of VTEC?

Some people don't like it.
--
Jerry

"In an insane society it is always the sane man that appears insane."
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[Mark Huth-3]

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As a previous '97 owner and a present '05 owner, I have to say that I love each design for different reasons.  The '97 was simpler, with a very basic and thrilling ride.  It was also my first foray into the VFR world and I found it to be without equal as far as my riding experience was concerned.  Never before had I had such a perfect blend of comfort and performance.

After a brief departure to an ST1300 (which has been chronicled on the list before, so I won't bore you again with the details), I returned to VFR riding with my white '05.  I simply love this bike, but find it is different than my '97.  The '05 VTEC seems more refined somehow, like it not only went to a good college but actually graduated with a degree.  It seems more complex - - - which is both good and not so good.

The VTEC system which has been discussed ad nauseum works perfectly for me; the "jolt" is a non-issue - - - it never interferes with my riding and I now know exactly when to expect it.  Plus, it's not as big a jump as people have described.  The factory bags and mounting hardware are so much better than my Corbin Beetle bag system on the '97, and this is a big plus for me and the touring I like to do.

However, I think the '97 was a simpler, more transparent ride for me; it was an easy bike to understand.  The '05 has layers of intrigue.  I'm reminded of Garrison Keillor once describing the difference between a high school clarinet and a professional clarinetist in a major orchestra:  "It's like the clarinet suddenly went to college and, now, you can't get a straight answer out of it."  The '05 has some of that quality.

That said, they're both great rides and I'm proud to have owned them both.  I've ridden a host of other bikes, including the ST1300, Triumph Sprint and Ducati ST3 and I wouldn't think of trading the VFR, '97 or '05, for anything else.

Mark

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[Hagios]

Kirk wrote:
> After paying this one off, I hope to advance
> to a newer VFR VTEC version, with all of the sport touring equipment. (I
> will keep this one as well though).
Good call on both counts.  I love my touring equipment.  Makes the bike
practical for small grocery runs (my bike is my primary means of
transportation), as well as making it GREAT for long trips.  Of course,
do realize that many bikes can have GIVI equipment put on them, so that
should open up your options if your primary concern is sport-touring riding.
> So before I do, what is this
> negative attitude about that I see go by on the list from time to time?
> When it does get mentioned, no ones seems to counter it, so I don't
> understand?
Some people just don't like them.  Everything from the fact that they
only run on two valves before VTEC kicks in (in fact, the "VTEC" on the
bike is little more than shutting off half of the valves below a certain
RPM range).  Some don't like the looks, as there was some
obvious...'borrowing' done from Aprilia (The Futura came out in '01, the
6gen VFR in '02, hmmm...)
> I have no personal experience, so I thought I would ask you
> guys for your feedback. Is it just personal experience or has there been
> technical problems with the motorcycle version of VTEC?
I love my '06.  I don't care much for the VTEC.  After 6,000 miles it
hasn't "smoothed over," though I don't find it jarring like many do.  I
agree with the guys who said that you should find one that you can take
on a test spin.  It will likely make up your mind for you.
-Chris
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[t-9]

I will never buy a vtec vfr, not because I have
anything against vtec per se, but because they deleted
the gear driven cams, and added complexity without
clear benefits.








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[Kirk-16]

Oops. I'm sorry. I am also too new to know it is so controversial and
has been discussed probably too much. Apologies. Looks to be worse than
a tire thread? :-(

Kirk
Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@... [mailto:vfr-bounces@...] On Behalf
Of Jerry
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:46 AM
To: vfr@...
Subject: Re: VFR VTEC - What's the deal?


On Wednesday 02 May 2007 10:01 am, Kirk wrote:
> I am fairly new to the VFR world (but not the V4) and don't really
> understand what all of the negative clamor is about concerning the
> VFRs that have the VTEC technology that I see going by on the list
> from time to time. What's the deal? As far as cars go, I am completely

> enamored and amazed with my VTEC. I have owned Honda Civics for years
> and now own a 2007 Honda Civic Si i-VTEC (6-speed manual :-) fun fun
> fun). This is a FABULOUS and incredible car for a 4 cylinder engine.
> I'm not saying it's the very best or the fastest or the most powerful
> of all. I just love it, though. The red line is very high, just like
> my VFR (which is not VTEC BTW). When the VTEC kicks in at about 5500,
> it becomes a whole other creature that is totally amazing....and FUN
> too! The burst of power...the sound...the feel. Simply by the
> experience I have had with the Civic VTEC, I have been looking forward

> to a VFR with VTEC. This is actually my long term goal. After paying
> this one off, I hope to advance to a newer VFR VTEC version, with all
> of the sport touring equipment. (I will keep this one as well though).

> So before I do, what is this negative attitude about that I see go by
> on the list from time to time? When it does get mentioned, no ones
> seems to counter it, so I don't understand? I have no personal
> experience, so I thought I would ask you guys for your feedback. Is it

> just personal experience or has there been technical problems with the

> motorcycle version of VTEC?

Some people don't like it.
--
Jerry

"In an insane society it is always the sane man that appears insane."
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[Kirk-16]

'borrowing' done from Aprilia...

---------------------------------

I have no issue with that, since I have never paid much attention to
Aprilia anyway. I think the late model VFR's are just gorgeous. I am not
sure if there are many bikes nowadays that don't appear to be borrowing
one thing or the other? I am basically a Honda addict from day one. May
be kind of naïve, I guess, but I started off with a Honda Super 90 in
the 60's and never left the ranks since. Now IF Honda were to add a 6th
gear to that beautiful ST1300, maybe make it a 1500 :-), and still cut
back about 150lbs, I would jump right back on that sucka! Lol! I think
that would probably defeat it's purpose. Having ridden V4's for many
years, I damn near broke my left toe looking for 6th gear on my 1300.
Lol! I am curiously waiting to see what Kawasaki's 1400 is gonna do to
the market and if Honda will have any kind of response? It appears to be
a super sport touring bike. Can't wait to see how that goes.

Kirk
Texas



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[Kirk-16]

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Well, I am glad I am not the only one that departed the ranks ST1300 (amid shouts of heresy Lol!) to go to the VFR. Since this is actually a VFR list, I suppose I am allowed to say that, no offense to that fine piece of machinery. I am simply in LOVE with my 97! It is a perfect fit, of which has taken me years and many bikes to finally arrive to.....and I thought I was a cruiser chromey guy for the longest time before the ST. Lol! That was mainly from a lack of opportunity. The ST brought me in a new direction. I have had it for a few months now and I am finally adjusting to being "out in the open" so to speak, what with the difference in wind protection and all, but I am actually starting to like it. My experience seems very similar to yours already, so it looks like moving to the later model VFR will not be an issue for me. I really appreciate the feedback. Plus I REALLY like the touring set up on the late models! It's a purdy sight, yes sir. Very purdy!

 

Kirk

Texas

-----Original Message-----
From: vfr-bounces@... [mailto:vfr-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Mark Huth
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 12:29 PM
To: vfr list
Subject: RE: VFR VTEC - What's the deal?

As a previous '97 owner and a present '05 owner, I have to say that I love each design for different reasons.  The '97 was simpler, with a very basic and thrilling ride.  It was also my first foray into the VFR world and I found it to be without equal as far as my riding experience was concerned.  Never before had I had such a perfect blend of comfort and performance.

After a brief departure to an ST1300 (which has been chronicled on the list before, so I won't bore you again with the details), I returned to VFR riding with my white '05.  I simply love this bike, but find it is different than my '97.  The '05 VTEC seems more refined somehow, like it not only went to a good college but actually graduated with a degree.  It seems more complex - - - which is both good and not so good.

The VTEC system which has been discussed ad nauseum works perfectly for me; the "jolt" is a non-issue - - - it never interferes with my riding and I now know exactly when to expect it.  Plus, it's not as big a jump as people have described.  The factory bags and mounting hardware are so much better than my Corbin Beetle bag system on the '97, and this is a big plus for me and the touring I like to do.

However, I think the '97 was a simpler, more transparent ride for me; it was an easy bike to understand.  The '05 has layers of intrigue.  I'm reminded of Garrison Keillor once describing the difference between a high school clarinet and a professional clarinetist in a major orchestra:  "It's like the clarinet suddenly went to college and, now, you can't get a straight answer out of it."  The '05 has some of that quality.

That said, they're both great rides and I'm proud to have owned them both.  I've ridden a host of other bikes, including the ST1300, Triumph Sprint and Ducati ST3 and I wouldn't think of trading the VFR, '97 or '05, for anything else.

Mark

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[Jon Hart]

I pick up my '05 on Saturday.

I found that anyone who'd never owned a previous version preferred the newer, whilst a fair proportion of previous owners were resitant to change.

I also have a Harley VRSCD.  Which I've found is not popular with many of the Harley traditionalists.

If that sounds familliar, it's because it's human nature.

Follow your own path.  That's what biking's all about!

"Only regret the decisions you don't make"

Jon

[t-9]

--- Jon Hart <jonvfr@...> wrote:

>
> I pick up my '05 on Saturday.
>
> I found that anyone who'd never owned a previous
> version preferred the
> newer,

If they had never owned a previous version, how did
they know they preferred the newer?  Based on looks
alone?

 whilst a fair proportion of previous owners
> were resitant to change.

In my case, it is not resistance to change per se,
just resistance to change for the sake of change (and
cost-cutting, which is the only reason i can think of
to delete the gear-driven cams)

>
> I also have a Harley VRSCD.  Which I've found is not
> popular with many of
> the Harley traditionalists.



> If that sounds familliar, it's because it's human
> nature.

IMO the difference is that the V-Rod was a clear,
objective, improvement in technology and performance,
whereas the new VFR was a case of two steps forward
with one glaring step back.

Don't get me wrong!  The new VFRs are beautiful
machines, and I agree with your next statement
wholeheartedly---


>
> Follow your own path.  That's what biking's all
> about!
>
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[John Johnson-4]

On Thursday 3May, 2007, at 11:40 AM, T. Pierce wrote:

>
> --- Jon Hart <jonvfr@...> wrote:
[snip]

>  whilst a fair proportion of previous owners
>> were resitant to change.
>
> In my case, it is not resistance to change per se,
> just resistance to change for the sake of change (and
> cost-cutting, which is the only reason i can think of
> to delete the gear-driven cams)
>

Chain-driven cams are also much quieter than gear-driven cams (well,  
since the gear-drive used straight-cut gears it is; they could have  
used helical-cut gears, but if you thought gear drive was expensive  
before!), and while that gear-drive sound is distinctive, not  
everyone wants to hear it, particularly on a bike that's far less  
edgy than the first gear-driven-cam model.

Chain drives are also rather lighter than gear drive, which helps  
combat the (already high) weight of the bike.

They are also far cheaper.

>>
>> I also have a Harley VRSCD.  Which I've found is not
>> popular with many of
>> the Harley traditionalists.
>
>
>
>> If that sounds familliar, it's because it's human
>> nature.
>
> IMO the difference is that the V-Rod was a clear,
> objective, improvement in technology and performance,
> whereas the new VFR was a case of two steps forward
> with one glaring step back.

Well, the V-Rod has some areas where it's a clear, objective  
improvement (specific power output is the most obvious), and several  
areas where it's a clear, objective step back. The cruiser crowd  
hates radiators because they mostly look ugly, and very rarely even  
simply blend in. Furthermore, there's a large segment of the  
motorcycling population that feels that water-cooling is a mostly-
unnecessary* complexity that prevents them from working on their  
bikes as quickly and easily as they used to...sorta like people feel  
about V-TEC on a VFR.

That said, there's no doubt that V-TEC on the VFR makes it more  
complicated, and more difficult to service. Furthermore, it doesn't  
change the HP or torque numbers meaningfully (which is what people  
really wanted), and introduces (deliberately) a distinct "step" in  
the power output. So, as implemented, the V-TEC system doesn't do  
much that riders want, and has some obvious (if not necessarily  
significant) drawbacks. The technology has some interesting  
possibilities however, and I suspect that Honda implemented it as  
part of a longer-term plan of research into this technology. That's  
pure speculation on my part, though.

And that doesn't mention the other improvements in the current VFR:  
better headlights, suspension, factory luggage, etc.

*"unnecessary" means "only required for emissions" in most of the  
cases that I've run across. Given the general disdain for emissions  
laws in the motorcycling community, I feel safe in this  
characterization.

later,
Johnj
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[Bruno Valeri]

--- John Johnson <johajohn@...> wrote:
> Chain-driven cams are also much quieter than gear-driven cams

Some might have to do with tightening noise restrictions where the total
noise emitted by a motorcycle is measured. It's been one of the drivers
towards liquid cooling. Or not.


Bruno
Montreal, Canada
CBR 929
http://pages.videotron.com/mcrides

Improving vision and safety when riding in fog
http://pages.infinit.net/mcrides/riding/riding-fog.htm












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