Valudating common field types

[Yogesh Agashe]

Hello,

This is my first post to this NYPHP mailing list. So hello to everyone
and thanks for the thorough discussions which help a beginner developer
like me.

I have a simple question. I want to validate first and last name. I
assume that these are probably most common fields in any type of
registration forms on websites.

When I validate these fields, I can't use ctype_alpha since these don't
allow ' as in O'Reilly or Last Name with white space in it. I have to
use a regular expression here. That's fine and I use it as well. Another
method is to find a single ' or space,  trim it and then validate
remaining alphabet characters. RegEx is slower and even in new
filter_input, there is no way to validate these field types.

Is there any other way to validate first and last names. It will be nice
to have have inbuilt function for such commonly used field types. I will
like to know how people tackle these issue.
Thanks.

Sincerely,
Yogesh




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[Hans Zaunere]

Hi,

> This is my first post to this NYPHP mailing list. So hello to everyone
> and thanks for the thorough discussions which help a beginner developer
> like me.

Hi Yogesh and welcome.

> I have a simple question. I want to validate first and last name. I
> assume that these are probably most common fields in any type of
> registration forms on websites.
>
> When I validate these fields, I can't use ctype_alpha since these don't
> allow ' as in O'Reilly or Last Name with white space in it. I have to
> use a regular expression here. That's fine and I use it as well. Another
> method is to find a single ' or space,  trim it and then validate
> remaining alphabet characters. RegEx is slower and even in new
> filter_input, there is no way to validate these field types.

I wouldn't worry too much about the speed of regex (I'd recommend pcre_*
functions).

> Is there any other way to validate first and last names. It will be nice
> to have have inbuilt function for such commonly used field types. I will
> like to know how people tackle these issue.

But note that validating is all relative.  What if you need to support
various charsets?  I typically just check for strings without newlines and
non-printable chars.  For international sites, obviously, there are some
other loops involved.

H


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[David Krings]

Yogesh Agashe wrote:
> Hello,
>
> This is my first post to this NYPHP mailing list. So hello to everyone
> and thanks for the thorough discussions which help a beginner developer
> like me.

Welcome, was the same with me, except that I never really left beginner stage.


  > Is there any other way to validate first and last names. It will be nice
> to have have inbuilt function for such commonly used field types. I will
> like to know how people tackle these issue.
> Thanks.
>

The only thing I would check is that the fields are not empty. The maximum
length is set via the maxlength parameter in HTML and everything else
qualifies as  a valid name. I don't think you can reasonably script validation
to make sure that the first name entered is "Dirk" and not "Dork".

David
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[Konstantin K]

be careful. don't just check if the field is NON empty.  that's not good enough.

 

in English, you can reasonably assume the following to be true about names:

- must contain at least 1 letter [A-Za-z]

- may contain ' (apostrephe) and - (dash) and  (space)

- shouldn't be longer than 40 characters.

- should not contain #s, or any other symbol, especially < (so ppl don't start entering html codes, js, etc)

 

Konstantin

 

 

 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 3:48 PM, David Krings <ramons@...> wrote:

Yogesh Agashe wrote:

Hello,

This is my first post to this NYPHP mailing list. So hello to everyone and thanks for the thorough discussions which help a beginner developer like me.

Welcome, was the same with me, except that I never really left beginner stage.

 > Is there any other way to validate first and last names. It will be nice

to have have inbuilt function for such commonly used field types. I will like to know how people tackle these issue.

Thanks.

The only thing I would check is that the fields are not empty. The maximum length is set via the maxlength parameter in HTML and everything else qualifies as  a valid name. I don't think you can reasonably script validation to make sure that the first name entered is "Dirk" and not "Dork".

David

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[Konstantin K]

oh and also allow for . (periods)....

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Konstantin K <kkrutoi@...> wrote:

be careful. don't just check if the field is NON empty.  that's not good enough.

 

in English, you can reasonably assume the following to be true about names:

- must contain at least 1 letter [A-Za-z]

- may contain ' (apostrephe) and - (dash) and  (space)

- shouldn't be longer than 40 characters.

- should not contain #s, or any other symbol, especially < (so ppl don't start entering html codes, js, etc)

 

Konstantin

 

 

 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 3:48 PM, David Krings <ramons@...> wrote:

Yogesh Agashe wrote:

Hello,

This is my first post to this NYPHP mailing list. So hello to everyone and thanks for the thorough discussions which help a beginner developer like me.

Welcome, was the same with me, except that I never really left beginner stage.

 > Is there any other way to validate first and last names. It will be nice

to have have inbuilt function for such commonly used field types. I will like to know how people tackle these issue.

Thanks.

The only thing I would check is that the fields are not empty. The maximum length is set via the maxlength parameter in HTML and everything else qualifies as  a valid name. I don't think you can reasonably script validation to make sure that the first name entered is "Dirk" and not "Dork".

David

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[Yogesh Agashe]

Hello Hans,

Thanks for the welcome. :)

Okay, I use PCRE type functions for regular expressions so I think I can continue using them without worrying about the speed.

Yes, I never thought if i had to support a different character sets. Thanks for pointing out the possibilities.

Sincerely,
Yogesh



Hans Zaunere wrote:

Hi,

  

This is my first post to this NYPHP mailing list. So hello to everyone
and thanks for the thorough discussions which help a beginner developer
like me.
    

Hi Yogesh and welcome.

  

I have a simple question. I want to validate first and last name. I
assume that these are probably most common fields in any type of
registration forms on websites.

When I validate these fields, I can't use ctype_alpha since these don't
allow ' as in O'Reilly or Last Name with white space in it. I have to
use a regular expression here. That's fine and I use it as well. Another
method is to find a single ' or space,  trim it and then validate
remaining alphabet characters. RegEx is slower and even in new
filter_input, there is no way to validate these field types.
    

I wouldn't worry too much about the speed of regex (I'd recommend pcre_*
functions).

  

Is there any other way to validate first and last names. It will be nice
to have have inbuilt function for such commonly used field types. I will
like to know how people tackle these issue.
    

But note that validating is all relative.  What if you need to support
various charsets?  I typically just check for strings without newlines and
non-printable chars.  For international sites, obviously, there are some
other loops involved.

H


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[Yogesh Agashe]

Hello David,

Thanks for the welcome.

Yes, I am checking that they are not empty. Thanks for the feedback.

Sincerely,
Yogesh

David Krings wrote:

> Yogesh Agashe wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> This is my first post to this NYPHP mailing list. So hello to
>> everyone and thanks for the thorough discussions which help a
>> beginner developer like me.
>
> Welcome, was the same with me, except that I never really left
> beginner stage.
>
>
>  > Is there any other way to validate first and last names. It will be
> nice
>> to have have inbuilt function for such commonly used field types. I
>> will like to know how people tackle these issue.
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> The only thing I would check is that the fields are not empty. The
> maximum length is set via the maxlength parameter in HTML and
> everything else qualifies as  a valid name. I don't think you can
> reasonably script validation to make sure that the first name entered
> is "Dirk" and not "Dork".
>
> David
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP Users Group Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/Show-Participation

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[Yogesh Agashe]

Hi Konstantin,

Thanks for the feedback. Right, So many cases to handle in there. I will also add minimum 2 characters to the list.

Thanks,
Yogesh

Konstantin K wrote:

oh and also allow for . (periods)....

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Konstantin K <kkrutoi@...> wrote:

be careful. don't just check if the field is NON empty.  that's not good enough.

 

in English, you can reasonably assume the following to be true about names:

- must contain at least 1 letter [A-Za-z]

- may contain ' (apostrephe) and - (dash) and  (space)

- shouldn't be longer than 40 characters.

- should not contain #s, or any other symbol, especially < (so ppl don't start entering html codes, js, etc)

 

Konstantin

 

 

 

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 3:48 PM, David Krings <ramons@...> wrote:

Yogesh Agashe wrote:

Hello,

This is my first post to this NYPHP mailing list. So hello to everyone and thanks for the thorough discussions which help a beginner developer like me.

Welcome, was the same with me, except that I never really left beginner stage.

 > Is there any other way to validate first and last names. It will be nice

to have have inbuilt function for such commonly used field types. I will like to know how people tackle these issue.

Thanks.

The only thing I would check is that the fields are not empty. The maximum length is set via the maxlength parameter in HTML and everything else qualifies as  a valid name. I don't think you can reasonably script validation to make sure that the first name entered is "Dirk" and not "Dork".

David

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[John Campbell-6]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Yogesh Agashe <yogesh.agashe@...> wrote:
> Hi Konstantin,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Right, So many cases to handle in there. I will
> also add minimum 2 characters to the list.

May I ask, what is the point of all of this?  Who benefits from you
imposing all sorts of piddly rules about what is in a name?  Do you
benefit?  Why go to the extra effort to make your code only work for
99% of American English names.  If you do nothing, your code will work
for any name, and you will have more free time to do something
worthwhile.

BTW,  I just checked my database, and I have 2 icelandic customers
that don't even have last names on their credit cards.  I am glad I
don't do validation, because if I did, I probably would have lost
those customers.

Regards,
-John Campbell
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[Hans Zaunere]

> Thanks for the feedback. Right, So many cases to handle in there. I
> will also add minimum 2 characters to the list.
       
That might not be correct, especially for Asian lastnames/etc... oh, minimum
of 2, but you get my meaning... what if you will want to support a middle
initial? :)

End of the day, I wouldn't try to validate too much.  Just protect your site
more from a security perspective.  Effectively, for all non-text area input,
I don't allow whitespace except for a regular horizontal space.  And for
text-areas, well, it all depends :)

H



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[David Mintz-2]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Yogesh Agashe <yogesh.agashe@...> wrote:

[...]
Konstantin K wrote:

oh and also allow for . (periods)....

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Konstantin K <kkrutoi@...> wrote:

be careful. don't just check if the field is NON empty.  that's not good enough.

 

in English, you can reasonably assume the following to be true about names:

- must contain at least 1 letter [A-Za-z]

- may contain ' (apostrephe) and - (dash) and  (space)

- shouldn't be longer than 40 characters.

- should not contain #s, or any other symbol, especially < (so ppl don't start entering html codes, js, etc)

Some time ago I borrowed and stole and cobbled together this regex for a first name:

/[^a-zA-Z\xC0-\xFF ]/

This is your whitelist approach. You test if the value contains anything other than this; if it doesn't, it's good. Min and max lengths have to be checked separately, though if you are really a ninja I think this could be made part of the regex.

I allow space because there may be a 'Marie Christine' or some such who really wants the two parts regards as a single first name. The \x stuff allows a slew of chars found in Western European languages, so you're somewhat internationalized. If memory serves I think I got that from Daniel C.

My surname validator is the same except that it permits ' (apostrophe).


--
Demand health care for everyone:
http://mobilizeforhealthcare.org/

--
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/



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[David Mintz-2]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:26 PM, John Campbell <jcampbell1@...> wrote:

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:16 PM, Yogesh Agashe <yogesh.agashe@...> wrote:
> Hi Konstantin,
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Right, So many cases to handle in there. I will
> also add minimum 2 characters to the list.

May I ask, what is the point of all of this?  Who benefits from you
imposing all sorts of piddly rules about what is in a name?  Do you
benefit?  Why go to the extra effort to make your code only work for
99% of American English names.  If you do nothing, your code will work
for any name, and you will have more free time to do something
worthwhile.

Maybe you just want to protect users from their own mistakes, so they don't input Hen3ry where they mean Henry.

 

BTW,  I just checked my database, and I have 2 icelandic customers
that don't even have last names on their credit cards.  I am glad I
don't do validation, because if I did, I probably would have lost
those customers.

I guess it depends on the application and the type of data you expect.

--
Demand health care for everyone:
http://mobilizeforhealthcare.org/

--
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/



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[David Mintz-2]

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 4:27 PM, Hans Zaunere <lists@...> wrote:

> Thanks for the feedback. Right, So many cases to handle in there. I
> will also add minimum 2 characters to the list.

That might not be correct, especially for Asian lastnames/etc... oh, minimum
of 2, but you get my meaning... what if you will want to support a middle
initial? :)

End of the day, I wouldn't try to validate too much.

But it's nice to let them proof it.


--
Demand health care for everyone:
http://mobilizeforhealthcare.org/

--
David Mintz
http://davidmintz.org/



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[Yogesh Agashe]

Ya, I got what you are saying. I think I was doing too much of it. Also I did not think about the visitors from different continent than North America.

Thanks,
Yogesh


Hans Zaunere wrote:

Thanks for the feedback. Right, So many cases to handle in there. I
will also add minimum 2 characters to the list.
    

	
That might not be correct, especially for Asian lastnames/etc... oh, minimum
of 2, but you get my meaning... what if you will want to support a middle
initial? :)

End of the day, I wouldn't try to validate too much.  Just protect your site
more from a security perspective.  Effectively, for all non-text area input,
I don't allow whitespace except for a regular horizontal space.  And for
text-areas, well, it all depends :)

H



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