Web browser quality

[Hans Zaunere-3]

Hi all,

So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?

Chrome:  freezes continually with 1mb view source.  Seems more worried about
trying to get me to login to the mothership and track my social networks,
than actually being a browser that can download text from a web server.
And, if I would so happen to want to reload a page (crazy, right?), it's so
hell-bent on caching everything that I have to restart it to see any new
content - control-r, forget about it.  Guess they want their browser to be
"fast" :)

Firefox:  what happened to my friend?!?  Great, now we get a new release
every few minutes, but it crashes, can't correctly repost a form (everything
is always expired), view source hangs or won't display the source of a POST,
and it won't even copy the HTML out of Firebug into a text editor...
control-c doesn't capture anything!  Not to mention it's using 800mb of my
RAM and renders pages about as quick as a 286.

IE9:  so, disable cache for all requests; that's handy.  Fast, but will
actually re-request the page from the server when told to do so.  Developer
tools aren't great, but it's not using 1gb of RAM either.  View source is,
eh, well...

These are all the latest version of these browsers.  Though right now the
best I've found is:

wget -O - test.site/something | less

So that I can actually see what the server is spitting back - and it works
like a charm :)

So am I missing something here, or... anyone else having these types of
problems (more so) of late?

H


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[Chris Snyder-6]

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Hans Zaunere <bulk@...> wrote:

> So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
> browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?

Big picture, things are great -- html5 / css3 support, much better
cross-browser rendering than we've ever had, developer tools in
consumer builds.

But yeah, Firefox has been a mess recently. And Chrome breaks things
then fixes them from release to release -- especially around
content-editable support.
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[Felix Shnir]

Firefox is probably one of the better browser out there still.  If you are experiencing crashes, this most likely indicates corrupted profile -- this occurs often during upgrades, but there many factor why it would go corrupt.  Try creating a new profile and see how this affects it.

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 3:45 PM, Chris Snyder <chsnyder@...> wrote:

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Hans Zaunere <bulk@...> wrote:

> So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
> browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?

Big picture, things are great -- html5 / css3 support, much better
cross-browser rendering than we've ever had, developer tools in
consumer builds.

But yeah, Firefox has been a mess recently. And Chrome breaks things
then fixes them from release to release -- especially around
content-editable support.

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[Federico Ulfo]

Here is my OSX user experience, I was using Firefox for inspect/debugging web page, it's good but too over-bloated with functionalities and plugins.
I recently found my nirvana in Chrome, clean and fast.
Safari is the Zen for sailing the interweb.

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 3:36 PM, Hans Zaunere <bulk@...> wrote:

Hi all,

So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?

Chrome:  freezes continually with 1mb view source.  Seems more worried about
trying to get me to login to the mothership and track my social networks,
than actually being a browser that can download text from a web server.
And, if I would so happen to want to reload a page (crazy, right?), it's so
hell-bent on caching everything that I have to restart it to see any new
content - control-r, forget about it.  Guess they want their browser to be
"fast" :)

Firefox:  what happened to my friend?!?  Great, now we get a new release
every few minutes, but it crashes, can't correctly repost a form (everything
is always expired), view source hangs or won't display the source of a POST,
and it won't even copy the HTML out of Firebug into a text editor...
control-c doesn't capture anything!  Not to mention it's using 800mb of my
RAM and renders pages about as quick as a 286.

IE9:  so, disable cache for all requests; that's handy.  Fast, but will
actually re-request the page from the server when told to do so.  Developer
tools aren't great, but it's not using 1gb of RAM either.  View source is,
eh, well...

These are all the latest version of these browsers.  Though right now the
best I've found is:

wget -O - test.site/something | less

So that I can actually see what the server is spitting back - and it works
like a charm :)

So am I missing something here, or... anyone else having these types of
problems (more so) of late?

H


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[Chris Snyder-6]

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Federico Ulfo <rainelemental@...> wrote:

> Safari is the Zen for sailing the interweb.

That spot will always be held by IE 5 for Mac, where by Zen I mean
that it felt like a kick to the head.
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[Hans Zaunere-3]

> Firefox is probably one of the better browser out there still.  If you
> are experiencing crashes, this most likely indicates corrupted profile -
> - this occurs often during upgrades, but there many factor why it would
> go corrupt.  Try creating a new profile and see how this affects it.

That's not a bad idea - though it still seems as though it's broken
functionality (recently) with how it handle form reposts.  Anyone seeing
this?

> > So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
> > browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?
>
> Big picture, things are great -- html5 / css3 support, much better
> cross-browser rendering than we've ever had, developer tools in
> consumer builds.

I suppose, but at the same time it feels that the front-end functionality is
bloating the browsers beyond the basics... we're all still talking HTTP
here, folks - and for server-side development, it of the utmost importance.

Maybe the developer tools in consumer builds is part of the problem.
Browsers are trying to do too many things, and supporting too many different
types of web developers.

Where's the "developer's browser" or more specifically, the server-side
developer's browser... maybe we should recommend that to the "big three" :)
Or maybe there's a magic-soup of settings that can be applied to these
browsers to turn off all the consumer stuff?

H


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[Darryle steplight]

Speaking of FireFox, has anyone realized that youtube videos don't
play on the latest FF on a Mac, even after updating Adobe Flash?

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 4:02 PM, Hans Zaunere <bulk@...> wrote:

>> Firefox is probably one of the better browser out there still.  If you
>> are experiencing crashes, this most likely indicates corrupted profile -
>> - this occurs often during upgrades, but there many factor why it would
>> go corrupt.  Try creating a new profile and see how this affects it.
>
> That's not a bad idea - though it still seems as though it's broken
> functionality (recently) with how it handle form reposts.  Anyone seeing
> this?
>
>> > So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
>> > browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?
>>
>> Big picture, things are great -- html5 / css3 support, much better
>> cross-browser rendering than we've ever had, developer tools in
>> consumer builds.
>
> I suppose, but at the same time it feels that the front-end functionality is
> bloating the browsers beyond the basics... we're all still talking HTTP
> here, folks - and for server-side development, it of the utmost importance.
>
> Maybe the developer tools in consumer builds is part of the problem.
> Browsers are trying to do too many things, and supporting too many different
> types of web developers.
>
> Where's the "developer's browser" or more specifically, the server-side
> developer's browser... maybe we should recommend that to the "big three" :)
> Or maybe there's a magic-soup of settings that can be applied to these
> browsers to turn off all the consumer stuff?
>
> H
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation

--
----------------------------------------------
"May the Source be with you."
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[Joey Derrico-2]

I don't have those problems, but sometimes when I close FF it takes like 20 minutes to actually close. Chrome just pisses me off (I prefer IE9 to Chrome). I reccomend giving Opera a try. It is my favorite browser, and though (useful) developer tools are virtually nonexistent its still worth a try

Joey Derrico

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[Hans Zaunere-3]

> Here is my OSX user experience, I was using Firefox for
> inspect/debugging web page, it's good but too over-bloated with
> functionalities and plugins.

Agreed, and it seems to be getting worse, which is sad.

> I recently found my nirvana in Chrome, clean and fast.

It's fast, but apparently because it caches everything.  It's also way too
big-brother for me.

H


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[Matthew Kaufman-2]

The web browser 'Dillo' is great :). Or the graphical version of links

On Friday, May 11, 2012, Hans Zaunere wrote:

> Here is my OSX user experience, I was using Firefox for
> inspect/debugging web page, it's good but too over-bloated with
> functionalities and plugins.

Agreed, and it seems to be getting worse, which is sad.

> I recently found my nirvana in Chrome, clean and fast.

It's fast, but apparently because it caches everything.  It's also way too
big-brother for me.

H


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[Mark Armendariz-2]

>> I recently found my nirvana in Chrome, clean and fast.
> It's fast, but apparently because it caches everything.  It's also way too
> big-brother for me.
>
> H

I've been defaulting to Chromium for a while, with the occasional switch
to Firefox / Firebug (I work on Ubuntu)

I think it's either ctrl+refresh or shift+refresh to skip the cache on
Chromium.  I'm not exactly sure, because it's one of those muscle memory
things.

I tend to prefer chromium for most testing (except video links which
tends to give an "oh shnap").

The main thing i miss is firebug's inline request drill-down.  In
Chromium, you can have your XHR requests listed, but when you click them
it opens the networking tab, and another click or two to actually see
the raw headers and results.  Firebug's inline version is SO much more
useful, especially since it's embedded within the rest of your console
debugging context.

There's also a "disable cache" setting in Chromium that may help with
what you're having problems with.  I haven't tried it yet - mostly due
to my ctrl+refresh habit.

Mark
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[Anthony Ferrara-2]

My only beef with Chrome is the lack of application-specific proxying.
 With FireFox, I can set the proxy to be different than the system
one.  With chrome, I can't.  Sure, foxyproxy exists for Chrome, but it
switches the bloody system proxy on demand (imagine what else that may
blow up).

Otherwise, I use chrome for 99.95% of my activity.  And the other 3
browsers that I use are only for browser-specific bugs that come up...

On Fri, May 11, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Mark Armendariz <lists@...> wrote:

>
>>> I recently found my nirvana in Chrome, clean and fast.
>>
>> It's fast, but apparently because it caches everything.  It's also way too
>> big-brother for me.
>>
>> H
>
>
> I've been defaulting to Chromium for a while, with the occasional switch to
> Firefox / Firebug (I work on Ubuntu)
>
> I think it's either ctrl+refresh or shift+refresh to skip the cache on
> Chromium.  I'm not exactly sure, because it's one of those muscle memory
> things.
>
> I tend to prefer chromium for most testing (except video links which tends
> to give an "oh shnap").
>
> The main thing i miss is firebug's inline request drill-down.  In Chromium,
> you can have your XHR requests listed, but when you click them it opens the
> networking tab, and another click or two to actually see the raw headers and
> results.  Firebug's inline version is SO much more useful, especially since
> it's embedded within the rest of your console debugging context.
>
> There's also a "disable cache" setting in Chromium that may help with what
> you're having problems with.  I haven't tried it yet - mostly due to my
> ctrl+refresh habit.
>
> Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation

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[David Krings]

On 5/11/2012 3:36 PM, Hans Zaunere wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
> browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?
>

Hi!

During the past few months? It is like that for quite longer.

FF 4 and higher just sucks, the UI is horrible and the switch from 3.6 to 4
broke a lot of things that are still not fixed....unless you happen to know
the add-on that unfixes the 'fixes'. I also get the impression that the
Mozilla folks got way more arrogant. They use to be thankful for constructive
criticism or had at least a good reason for why things are the way they are.
Now they ignore any user input and if a response comes along it is typically
along the lines of "Go away!"
You can escape the rapid updating (which Google started with for no reason) by
installing the FF10 ESR build. That branch is back to the old, reasonable
update schedule.


Chrome is IMHO crap from the start and it did not get any better. Yes, it
loads pages faster and uses less memory, but it also doesn't do anything other
than that. I also like some UI with my fat client.

IE is very dependent on the local settings, when they are a bit harsher than
mildly restrictive a lot of things just stop working. It also get the
impression as if we are back to being forced to IE-only development dragging
around different code for IE while the typical code works just fine everywhere
else.

Opera is technically nice and can do a lot of things, but I find it utterly
kludgy to use. Safari is like Chrome, a lot of sauce with not much meat.


As far as getting things to work the way I want I still have most success with
FF followed by Chrome. I tend to not try it with Opera and IE and Safari are
not even considered. I have the luxury to consider it the other's loss when
they use these browsers and things don't come out right. Not everyone is as lucky.

Generally, I agree, browsers are heading back to the stone age, especially
with Flash getting thrown out all over the place. HTML5 isn't properly
implemented in most browsers and the pieces that are included are working
differently. The problem is that HTML always only specified the markup, but
not the display or functionality. It suggests an option, but really leaves a
lot to interpretation.



Just my 2 ct.


David


-- Sent from my desktop PC --
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[Federico Ulfo]

Really guys, what are you talking about? Now you code once and it
works in all browser, I wish things where this easy 10 years ago!
Browser improved a lot if you consider standards, compatibility,
performances and security (less virus, adware)!

Sent from my iPhone

On May 11, 2012, at 5:19 PM, David Krings <ramons@...> wrote:

> On 5/11/2012 3:36 PM, Hans Zaunere wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
>> browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?
>>
>
> Hi!
>
> During the past few months? It is like that for quite longer.
>
> FF 4 and higher just sucks, the UI is horrible and the switch from 3.6 to 4 broke a lot of things that are still not fixed....unless you happen to know the add-on that unfixes the 'fixes'. I also get the impression that the Mozilla folks got way more arrogant. They use to be thankful for constructive criticism or had at least a good reason for why things are the way they are. Now they ignore any user input and if a response comes along it is typically along the lines of "Go away!"
> You can escape the rapid updating (which Google started with for no reason) by installing the FF10 ESR build. That branch is back to the old, reasonable update schedule.
>
>
> Chrome is IMHO crap from the start and it did not get any better. Yes, it loads pages faster and uses less memory, but it also doesn't do anything other than that. I also like some UI with my fat client.
>
> IE is very dependent on the local settings, when they are a bit harsher than mildly restrictive a lot of things just stop working. It also get the impression as if we are back to being forced to IE-only development dragging around different code for IE while the typical code works just fine everywhere else.
>
> Opera is technically nice and can do a lot of things, but I find it utterly kludgy to use. Safari is like Chrome, a lot of sauce with not much meat.
>
>
> As far as getting things to work the way I want I still have most success with FF followed by Chrome. I tend to not try it with Opera and IE and Safari are not even considered. I have the luxury to consider it the other's loss when they use these browsers and things don't come out right. Not everyone is as lucky.
>
> Generally, I agree, browsers are heading back to the stone age, especially with Flash getting thrown out all over the place. HTML5 isn't properly implemented in most browsers and the pieces that are included are working differently. The problem is that HTML always only specified the markup, but not the display or functionality. It suggests an option, but really leaves a lot to interpretation.
>
>
>
> Just my 2 ct.
>
>
> David
>
>
> -- Sent from my desktop PC --
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation

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[Justin Demaris]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Chrome has all of my favorite debugging features now, and I cant even stand to open other browsers for the most part.

But within the past 3 months or so its performance has been going down for me. If I was running Windows I would figure its just time to format and reinstall but I have never had this happen in OSX and Ubuntu before.

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----

From: Hans Zaunere <bulk@...>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk@...>
Sent: Fri, May 11, 2012 20:33:21 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [nyphp-talk] Web browser quality

> Here is my OSX user experience, I was using Firefox for
> inspect/debugging web page, it's good but too over-bloated with
> functionalities and plugins.

Agreed, and it seems to be getting worse, which is sad.

> I recently found my nirvana in Chrome, clean and fast.

It's fast, but apparently because it caches everything. It's also way too
big-brother for me.

H


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[Justin Demaris]

Some parts of this message have been removed. Learn more about Nabble's security policy.

Federico, thats a long term trend. Although I have to say the spread of -moz-drop-shadow type browser specific CSS has felt like its getting a bit out if hand....

Within the past few months I think performance and bloat have been hitting Firefox and Chrome. Does anyone know if Opera is still holding strong or does nobody even bother with them anymore?

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless

-----Original message-----

From: federico ulfo <rainelemental@...>
To: NYPHP Talk <talk@...>
Sent: Fri, May 11, 2012 22:07:58 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [nyphp-talk] Web browser quality

Really guys, what are you talking about? Now you code once and it
works in all browser, I wish things where this easy 10 years ago!
Browser improved a lot if you consider standards, compatibility,
performances and security (less virus, adware)!

Sent from my iPhone

On May 11, 2012, at 5:19 PM, David Krings wrote:

> On 5/11/2012 3:36 PM, Hans Zaunere wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
>> browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?
>>
>
> Hi!
>
> During the past few months? It is like that for quite longer.
>
> FF 4 and higher just sucks, the UI is horrible and the switch from 3.6 to 4 broke a lot of things that are still not fixed....unless you happen to know the add-on that unfixes the 'fixes'. I also get the impression that the Mozilla folks got way more arrogant. They use to be thankful for constructive criticism or had at least a good reason for why things are the way they are. Now they ignore any user input and if a response comes along it is typically along the lines of "Go away!"
> You can escape the rapid updating (which Google started with for no reason) by installing the FF10 ESR build. That branch is back to the old, reasonable update schedule.
>
>
> Chrome is IMHO crap from the start and it did not get any better. Yes, it loads pages faster and uses less memory, but it also doesn't do anything other than that. I also like some UI with my fat client.
>
> IE is very dependent on the local settings, when they are a bit harsher than mildly restrictive a lot of things just stop working. It also get the impression as if we are back to being forced to IE-only development dragging around different code for IE while the typical code works just fine everywhere else.
>
> Opera is technically nice and can do a lot of things, but I find it utterly kludgy to use. Safari is like Chrome, a lot of sauce with not much meat.
>
>
> As far as getting things to work the way I want I still have most success with FF followed by Chrome. I tend to not try it with Opera and IE and Safari are not even considered. I have the luxury to consider it the other's loss when they use these browsers and things don't come out right. Not everyone is as lucky.
>
> Generally, I agree, browsers are heading back to the stone age, especially with Flash getting thrown out all over the place. HTML5 isn't properly implemented in most browsers and the pieces that are included are working differently. The problem is that HTML always only specified the markup, but not the display or functionality. It suggests an option, but really leaves a lot to interpretation.
>
>
>
> Just my 2 ct.
>
>
> David
>
>
> -- Sent from my desktop PC --
> _______________________________________________
> New York PHP User Group Community Talk Mailing List
> http://lists.nyphp.org/mailman/listinfo/talk
>
> http://www.nyphp.org/show-participation
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[arzala (Bugzilla)]

On Saturday 12 May 2012 01:06:05 Hans Zaunere wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
> browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?
>
> Chrome:  freezes continually with 1mb view source.  Seems more worried about
> trying to get me to login to the mothership and track my social networks,
> than actually being a browser that can download text from a web server.
> And, if I would so happen to want to reload a page (crazy, right?), it's so
> hell-bent on caching everything that I have to restart it to see any new
> content - control-r, forget about it.  Guess they want their browser to be
> "fast" :)
>
> Firefox:  what happened to my friend?!?  Great, now we get a new release
> every few minutes, but it crashes, can't correctly repost a form (everything
> is always expired), view source hangs or won't display the source of a POST,
> and it won't even copy the HTML out of Firebug into a text editor...
> control-c doesn't capture anything!  Not to mention it's using 800mb of my
> RAM and renders pages about as quick as a 286.
>
> IE9:  so, disable cache for all requests; that's handy.  Fast, but will
> actually re-request the page from the server when told to do so.  Developer
> tools aren't great, but it's not using 1gb of RAM either.  View source is,
> eh, well...
>
> These are all the latest version of these browsers.  Though right now the
> best I've found is:
>
> wget -O - test.site/something | less
>
> So that I can actually see what the server is spitting back - and it works
> like a charm :)
>
> So am I missing something here, or... anyone else having these types of
> problems (more so) of late?

I Agree with most of issues mentioned here. They are even worse on Linux OSes (of course not IE). But I think another important factor in bad behavior of certain browsers or version is Level of integration of 3rd party contents. Today a typical webpage contains only 50% native conent. Rest content are loaded from various 3rd party websites based on various criteria be it 3rd party banners, Promoted ads, Social integration, Integration of forum discussion etc.

I am sure various frontend tools and technologies (specially JS and Ajax) used in delivering them as well their server response time plays major role in rendering native webpage. And any possible complexity in any of above non-native content could possibly hang, distory, cramp native web page also.

Anirudh Zala

>
> H
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>

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[Hans Zaunere-3]

Hi,

> Really guys, what are you talking about? Now you code once and it
> works in all browser, I wish things where this easy 10 years ago!
> Browser improved a lot if you consider standards, compatibility,
> performances and security (less virus, adware)!

I think you raise a good point - there's a difference between quality and
capability.

While the capabilities of browsers have certainly increased as front-end
technologies have matured (Javascript, HTML, CSS of course), the quality of
the browser software itself has suffered.

And David, as you point out - the whole release-early/release-often mantra
is a good one, stemming from open source.  Now, unfortunately, it appears to
have become more of a marketing tool for releasing poor quality software.

H

> On May 11, 2012, at 5:19 PM, David Krings <ramons@...> wrote:
>
> > On 5/11/2012 3:36 PM, Hans Zaunere wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> So, in a mix of rant-and-feedback-gathering - is it just me, or have
> >> browsers largely gone downhill in the last few months?
> >>
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > During the past few months? It is like that for quite longer.
> >
> > FF 4 and higher just sucks, the UI is horrible and the switch from 3.6
> to 4 broke a lot of things that are still not fixed....unless you happen
> to know the add-on that unfixes the 'fixes'. I also get the impression
> that the Mozilla folks got way more arrogant. They use to be thankful
> for constructive criticism or had at least a good reason for why things
> are the way they are. Now they ignore any user input and if a response
> comes along it is typically along the lines of "Go away!"
> > You can escape the rapid updating (which Google started with for no
> reason) by installing the FF10 ESR build. That branch is back to the
> old, reasonable update schedule.
> >
> >
> > Chrome is IMHO crap from the start and it did not get any better. Yes,
> it loads pages faster and uses less memory, but it also doesn't do
> anything other than that. I also like some UI with my fat client.
> >
> > IE is very dependent on the local settings, when they are a bit
> harsher than mildly restrictive a lot of things just stop working. It
> also get the impression as if we are back to being forced to IE-only
> development dragging around different code for IE while the typical code
> works just fine everywhere else.
> >
> > Opera is technically nice and can do a lot of things, but I find it
> utterly kludgy to use. Safari is like Chrome, a lot of sauce with not
> much meat.
> >
> >
> > As far as getting things to work the way I want I still have most
> success with FF followed by Chrome. I tend to not try it with Opera and
> IE and Safari are not even considered. I have the luxury to consider it
> the other's loss when they use these browsers and things don't come out
> right. Not everyone is as lucky.
> >
> > Generally, I agree, browsers are heading back to the stone age,
> especially with Flash getting thrown out all over the place. HTML5 isn't
> properly implemented in most browsers and the pieces that are included
> are working differently. The problem is that HTML always only specified
> the markup, but not the display or functionality. It suggests an option,
> but really leaves a lot to interpretation.
> >
> >
> >
> > Just my 2 ct.
> >
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> > -- Sent from my desktop PC --
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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[Bruce Martin]

Thought I would chime in here. I heard that Microsoft currently has plans not to allow third party browsers in Windows 8. Meaning IE 9 only for Windows 8. This to me is yet another bone head move as IE 9 still lacks the standards that Chrome, Safari and FireFox support.

As for bloating, I have not noticed it, mainly because I use minimal add-ons. Firefox, IMHO, is slightly above IE now. I prefer Chrome and Safari as they seem to handle the standards in a similar way.


Bruce Martin
c. 917-727-8230
p. 570-421-0670
bmartin@...


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[Anthony Ferrara-2]

> Thought I would chime in here. I heard that Microsoft currently has plans not to allow third party browsers in Windows 8. Meaning IE 9 only for Windows 8. This to me is yet another bone head move as IE 9 still lacks the standards that Chrome, Safari and FireFox support.

How long do you think that would last before the DOJ gets a hold of
that and replays 1998 all over again...?
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