Web file manager suggestion needed

[Thomas Goirand]

Hi,

Because uploading thousands of files by FTP is both slow and stupid,
plus quick edition of files is very nice, I'd love to have a file
manager included in our hosting environment.

I am willing to integrate a web file manager for our user to be able to:
- see directories
- extract or build tar.gz files
- quick edit html or text content
- etc.

The issue is that there are tones of them available on the web, and I
have no idea which one to choose.

To be able to package it in Debian, I need (these are strictly REQUIRED,
a project that doesn't have it is not a candidate):
- DSFG free
- identified and active upstream author that I can communicate with
- Good security history
- Widely used and tested
- No windows icons or other copyrighted materials included

For a good integration in our web hosting software, I need (these are
strong specifics to my needs, but I could contribute them if missing):
- Possibility to restrict usage to a specific folder (owned by the user)
- easy to integrate in our open source panel that has it's own auth
- make and extract tar.gz files (otherwise, what's the point?)

Bonuses would be (eg: not required, but would be nice):
- Not too ugly, easy to re-skin
- Multiple languages supported using gettext()
- Support for web specific stuffs like .htaccess, .html (wysiwyg?), .php
with syntax highlighting, etc.
- Nice progress bars when uploading big files

Please give me suggestions, and in return, if a web file manager matches
the above, I'll work on a Debian package that I will maintain, so that
everyone will be able to use it. I've searched, and didn't find any in
the archive, I think it's really missing (if anyone spotted one, let me
know the name of the package).

Thomas


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[Michelle Konzack-2]

Am 2009-09-22 13:48:16, schrieb Thomas Goirand:
> Hi,
>
> Because uploading thousands of files by FTP is both slow and stupid,

You are stupid, because you  can  not  upload  thousands  using  a  sick
webinterface. There are Windows AND Linux tools which allow up/downloads
to and from FTP-Servers within  the filemanager.

> plus quick edition of files is very nice,

Any GuiFTP Programs can edit files...

> I am willing to integrate a web file manager for our user to be able to:
> - see directories
> - extract or build tar.gz files
> - quick edit html or text content
> - etc.
>
> The issue is that there are tones of them available on the web, and I
> have no idea which one to choose.

Thats YOUR problem.  And of course, they are all sick and slow.

> To be able to package it in Debian, I need (these are strictly REQUIRED,
> a project that doesn't have it is not a candidate):
> - DSFG free

Maybe...

> - identified and active upstream author that I can communicate with

ROTFL

> - Good security history

Will never happen...

> - Widely used and tested

Impossibel...

> - No windows icons or other copyrighted materials included

Hehehe...

> For a good integration in our web hosting software, I need (these are
> strong specifics to my needs, but I could contribute them if missing):
> - Possibility to restrict usage to a specific folder (owned by the user)
> - easy to integrate in our open source panel that has it's own auth
> - make and extract tar.gz files (otherwise, what's the point?)

ANY ISP do code there OWN stuff...

> Bonuses would be (eg: not required, but would be nice):
> - Not too ugly, easy to re-skin
> - Multiple languages supported using gettext()
> - Support for web specific stuffs like .htaccess, .html (wysiwyg?), .php
> with syntax highlighting, etc.
> - Nice progress bars when uploading big files

How do you want to make a progressbar in the Push-Method?
Do you want to use a Java-Applet or a Flash-Thing?

> Please give me suggestions, and in return, if a web file manager matches
> the above, I'll work on a Debian package that I will maintain, so that
> everyone will be able to use it. I've searched, and didn't find any in
> the archive, I think it's really missing (if anyone spotted one, let me
> know the name of the package).
>
> Thomas

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

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[Thomas Goirand]

Michelle Konzack wrote:
> Am 2009-09-22 13:48:16, schrieb Thomas Goirand:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Because uploading thousands of files by FTP is both slow and stupid,
>
> You are stupid, because you  can  not  upload  thousands  using  a  sick
> webinterface.

Right, which is why I want to be able to upload with an ftp client and
then extract the tar.gz using the web tool. Thanks for saying that I'm
stupid without even understanding the obvious, by the way.

> There are Windows AND Linux tools which allow up/downloads
> to and from FTP-Servers within the filemanager.

Oh, was I so stupid that I didn't know what an FTP client was? Is that
what you think?

>> plus quick edition of files is very nice,
>
> Any GuiFTP Programs can edit files...

That's not the point at all.

>> I am willing to integrate a web file manager for our user to be able to:
>> - see directories
>> - extract or build tar.gz files
>> - quick edit html or text content
>> - etc.
>>
>> The issue is that there are tones of them available on the web, and I
>> have no idea which one to choose.
>
> Thats YOUR problem.  And of course, they are all sick and slow.

I don't think so. That's the issue of many people have a lot of pain
uploading a big number of files using FTP, while uploading a tar.gz and
extract it would be so fast compared to it.

>> - identified and active upstream author that I can communicate with
>
> ROTFL

Why is that funny?

>> - Good security history
>
> Will never happen...

Why?

>> - Widely used and tested
>
> Impossibel...

Why too?

>> For a good integration in our web hosting software, I need (these are
>> strong specifics to my needs, but I could contribute them if missing):
>> - Possibility to restrict usage to a specific folder (owned by the user)
>> - easy to integrate in our open source panel that has it's own auth
>> - make and extract tar.gz files (otherwise, what's the point?)
>
> ANY ISP do code there OWN stuff...

The purpose here is to have something uploaded in Debian, did you
understand that very point? I don't think so...

> How do you want to make a progressbar in the Push-Method?
> Do you want to use a Java-Applet or a Flash-Thing?

There are ways using javascript, but yes, java or flash could be the way
as well.

All together, thanks a lot for this very nasty and impolite reply. I
don't see your point replying this way, this doesn't help anyone, and I
believe that it's annoying a lot of readers here, while I believe that
my concern is legitimate and that many people had the issue as well.

Thomas


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[Keith Edmunds-2]

On Thu, 01 Oct 2009 05:14:56 +0800, thomas@... said:

> I
> believe that it's annoying a lot of readers here

So's this: take it off the list.


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[Michelle Konzack-2]

Am 2009-10-01 05:14:56, schrieb Thomas Goirand:

> Michelle Konzack wrote:
> > Am 2009-09-22 13:48:16, schrieb Thomas Goirand:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> Because uploading thousands of files by FTP is both slow and stupid,
> >
> > You are stupid, because you  can  not  upload  thousands  using  a  sick
> > webinterface.
>
> Right, which is why I want to be able to upload with an ftp client and
> then extract the tar.gz using the web tool. Thanks for saying that I'm
> stupid without even understanding the obvious, by the way.

I would NEVER allow such stuff, because you can kill a WHOLE server with
it...  You can start with 26 directories each one contain a  file  "FOO"
and 1 kBYte, then make in each subdirectory 26 other directories an put
the same file there...

Believe it, I will kill your server by eating your INODES!!!!!!!!!!!!

How many SysAdmins use 'df -i' if an error occur?

5 levels are eating arround 12 million inodes but only arround 40 MByte.

> Oh, was I so stupid that I didn't know what an FTP client was? Is that
> what you think?

It is a tool which is ALREADY in Windows, so user can use it easily...

Drag-n-Drop

> > Any GuiFTP Programs can edit files...
>
> That's not the point at all.

Why?  Your webclient can only edit textfiles, not others...
FTP-Client can edit ANY files using the appropriated program.

> > Thats YOUR problem.  And of course, they are all sick and slow.
>
> I don't think so. That's the issue of many people have a lot of pain
> uploading a big number of files using FTP, while uploading a tar.gz and
> extract it would be so fast compared to it.

I users can move files on the Harddisk, you assume, that YOUR users  are
to sick, to move files to a network drive?

> >> - identified and active upstream author that I can communicate with
> >
> > ROTFL
>
> Why is that funny?

Most tools where once coded with the note  "It works for me!"  and  then
forgotten...  Some years ago I was at the  same  point  while  searching
some stuff for my website...

> >> - Good security history
> >
> > Will never happen...
>
> Why?

MOST tools are coded in PHP and do  not  believe  (and  you  should  not
assume), the Debian Security Team is willing to maintain it in STABLE.

You say, you will maintain it, but this  happen  only  to  UNSTABLE  and
TESTING and the it is the responsability of the Security Team.

> >> - Widely used and tested
> >
> > Impossibel...
>
> Why too?

Most tools (I found nearly 70) are not referenced everywhere, so, no one
can say it is widely used and tested.

> > ANY ISP do code there OWN stuff...
>
> The purpose here is to have something uploaded in Debian, did you
                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> understand that very point? I don't think so...

I think, YOU miss some points...

Such tools MUST be prooven to be stable and secure...

> There are ways using javascript, but yes, java or flash could be the way
> as well.

I am not sure, if the Security Team give the OK  for  JAVA-Applets/Flash
stuff.

Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
    Michelle Konzack
    Systemadministrator
    Tamay Dogan Network
    Debian GNU/Linux Consultant

--
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##################### Debian GNU/Linux Consultant #####################
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<http://www.can4linux.org/>                   Apt. 917
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ICQ    #328449886                             Tel. FR: [phone]

[milesf]

Re. the original question:

Have you considered WebDAV?  Makes your server look like a network
fileserver, mountable through tools already built into Linux, Macs, and
Windows.

On the server side, just install mod_dav into your Apache installation.

--
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In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra



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[Sebastian Rose-2]

Michelle Konzack <linux4michelle@...> writes:
> Am 2009-09-22 13:48:16, schrieb Thomas Goirand:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Because uploading thousands of files by FTP is both slow and stupid,
>
> You are stupid, because you  can  not  upload  thousands  using  a  sick
> webinterface. There are Windows AND Linux tools which allow up/downloads
> to and from FTP-Servers within  the filemanager.

Hoof - so rude ... ???


Web-Interfaces are at hand anywhere, no matter where you are or what
kind of machine you use. There are thousand usecases for them.

We're not in the computer stone age anymore.


>> - Nice progress bars when uploading big files
>
> How do you want to make a progressbar in the Push-Method?
> Do you want to use a Java-Applet or a Flash-Thing?


A little Ajax and Perl is better and faster (but not for everyone to
setup though).


I never search for such a tool, but all the requiremnts are fairly
standard, I believe (jQuery, geshi...).

Most admins provide such stuff (e.g. via Confix et al or groupware
tools).



  Sebastian


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[Thomas Goirand]

Michelle Konzack wrote:

> Am 2009-10-01 05:14:56, schrieb Thomas Goirand:
>> Michelle Konzack wrote:
>>> Am 2009-09-22 13:48:16, schrieb Thomas Goirand:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Because uploading thousands of files by FTP is both slow and stupid,
>>> You are stupid, because you  can  not  upload  thousands  using  a  sick
>>> webinterface.
>> Right, which is why I want to be able to upload with an ftp client and
>> then extract the tar.gz using the web tool. Thanks for saying that I'm
>> stupid without even understanding the obvious, by the way.
>
> I would NEVER allow such stuff, because you can kill a WHOLE server with
> it...  You can start with 26 directories each one contain a  file  "FOO"
> and 1 kBYte, then make in each subdirectory 26 other directories an put
> the same file there...

You can as well do this with a very simple PHP script. Shared hosting is
all about watching what people are doing and making sure you fire the
bad people.

>> Oh, was I so stupid that I didn't know what an FTP client was? Is that
>> what you think?
>
> It is a tool which is ALREADY in Windows, so user can use it easily...
>
> Drag-n-Drop

Thanks for enlightening our ignorance here! Do you know that this is the
debian-isp list here?

>>>> - identified and active upstream author that I can communicate with
>>> ROTFL
>> Why is that funny?
>
> Most tools where once coded with the note  "It works for me!"  and  then
> forgotten...  Some years ago I was at the  same  point  while  searching
> some stuff for my website...

As much as I can see here:

http://qa.debian.org/developer.php?login=linux4michelle@...

you are not maintainer for any package yet in Debian, which might be why
you don't understand how much it's important to have an upstream that is
reactive, if you want to get a chance to correct bugs in your package.

>>>> - Good security history
>>> Will never happen...
>> Why?
>
> MOST tools are coded in PHP and do  not  believe  (and  you  should  not
> assume), the Debian Security Team is willing to maintain it in STABLE.

You don't understand how Debian works. It's NOT the role of the security
team to do maintenance, that's the work of the maintainer. Sure, you can
contact the security team if you find a hole, but there's a very good
chance that they will get in touch with the package maintainer for
patching. And anyway, just look into the archive, and you might see 100s
of packages using PHP.

> You say, you will maintain it, but this  happen  only  to  UNSTABLE  and
> TESTING and the it is the responsability of the Security Team.

Which you can't decide for them. I don't understand on what you are
basing on to say that ANY of the file managers will be rejected. This is
just plain wrong, lucky the security team and the ftp masters are not
that stupid.

>>>> - Widely used and tested
>>> Impossibel...
>> Why too?
>
> Most tools (I found nearly 70) are not referenced everywhere, so, no one
> can say it is widely used and tested.

There's a way too many file managers around, which is exactly why I
asked here for opinion. If you can't answer, leave others the freedom to
do it. That being said, it's not because you don't know them that none
of them is good for what I want to do...

>> The purpose here is to have something uploaded in Debian, did you
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> understand that very point? I don't think so...
>
> I think, YOU miss some points...
>
> Such tools MUST be prooven to be stable and secure...

Which is why I asked here for opinions!!!

>> There are ways using javascript, but yes, java or flash could be the way
>> as well.
>
> I am not sure, if the Security Team give the OK  for  JAVA-Applets/Flash
> stuff.

Why would the security team reject some packages just based on the
language use to write the app? That makes absolutely no sense, and I can
tell you that this is NOT the case!!! Look into the archive, and see how
many packages are using Java! The following is enough to prove you are
wrong here:

~$ apt-cache search java | wc -l
932

Thomas


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[Steven Jacobs-2]

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Michelle Konzack wrote:

> Am 2009-10-01 05:14:56, schrieb Thomas Goirand:
>> Michelle Konzack wrote:
>>> Am 2009-09-22 13:48:16, schrieb Thomas Goirand:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Because uploading thousands of files by FTP is both slow and stupid,
>>> You are stupid, because you  can  not  upload  thousands  using  a  sick
>>> webinterface.
>> Right, which is why I want to be able to upload with an ftp client and
>> then extract the tar.gz using the web tool. Thanks for saying that I'm
>> stupid without even understanding the obvious, by the way.
>
> I would NEVER allow such stuff, because you can kill a WHOLE server with
> it...  You can start with 26 directories each one contain a  file  "FOO"
> and 1 kBYte, then make in each subdirectory 26 other directories an put
> the same file there...
>
> Believe it, I will kill your server by eating your INODES!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> How many SysAdmins use 'df -i' if an error occur?
>
> 5 levels are eating arround 12 million inodes but only arround 40 MByte.
>
>> Oh, was I so stupid that I didn't know what an FTP client was? Is that
>> what you think?
>
> It is a tool which is ALREADY in Windows, so user can use it easily...
>
> Drag-n-Drop
>
>>> Any GuiFTP Programs can edit files...
>> That's not the point at all.
>
> Why?  Your webclient can only edit textfiles, not others...
> FTP-Client can edit ANY files using the appropriated program.
>
>>> Thats YOUR problem.  And of course, they are all sick and slow.
>> I don't think so. That's the issue of many people have a lot of pain
>> uploading a big number of files using FTP, while uploading a tar.gz and
>> extract it would be so fast compared to it.
>
> I users can move files on the Harddisk, you assume, that YOUR users  are
> to sick, to move files to a network drive?
>
>>>> - identified and active upstream author that I can communicate with
>>> ROTFL
>> Why is that funny?
>
> Most tools where once coded with the note  "It works for me!"  and  then
> forgotten...  Some years ago I was at the  same  point  while  searching
> some stuff for my website...
>
>>>> - Good security history
>>> Will never happen...
>> Why?
>
> MOST tools are coded in PHP and do  not  believe  (and  you  should  not
> assume), the Debian Security Team is willing to maintain it in STABLE.
>
> You say, you will maintain it, but this  happen  only  to  UNSTABLE  and
> TESTING and the it is the responsability of the Security Team.
>
>>>> - Widely used and tested
>>> Impossibel...
>> Why too?
>
> Most tools (I found nearly 70) are not referenced everywhere, so, no one
> can say it is widely used and tested.
>
>>> ANY ISP do code there OWN stuff...
>> The purpose here is to have something uploaded in Debian, did you
>                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> understand that very point? I don't think so...
>
> I think, YOU miss some points...
>
> Such tools MUST be prooven to be stable and secure...
>
>> There are ways using javascript, but yes, java or flash could be the way
>> as well.
>
> I am not sure, if the Security Team give the OK  for  JAVA-Applets/Flash
> stuff.
>
> Thanks, Greetings and nice Day/Evening
>     Michelle Konzack
>     Systemadministrator
>     Tamay Dogan Network
>     Debian GNU/Linux Consultant
>

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[Ross Halliday]

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Goirand [mailto:thomas@...]
Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 8:49 AM
To: debian-isp@...
Subject: Re: Web file manager suggestion needed
>
> Thanks for enlightening our ignorance here! Do you know that this is
the
> debian-isp list here?


Like a previous poster wrote, please get this off the list. I do not see
how this series of flames is of any interest to fellow ISP operators or
how this is even Debian-specific.

---
Ross Halliday
Network Operations
WTC Communications
 
Office: 613-547-6939 x203
Helpdesk: 866-547-6939 option 2
http://www.wtccommunications.ca


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[Jan-Benedict Glaw]

On Tue, 2009-09-22 13:48:16 +0800, Thomas Goirand <thomas@...> wrote:

>
> Because uploading thousands of files by FTP is both slow and stupid,
> plus quick edition of files is very nice, I'd love to have a file
> manager included in our hosting environment.
>
> I am willing to integrate a web file manager for our user to be able to:
> - see directories
> - extract or build tar.gz files
> - quick edit html or text content
> - etc.

I'd simply use ssh/sftp/sshfs, or (if you really want to host FTP with
all its missing security) curlftpfs. Another way could be rsync
access.

The point is: You created a list of needed features, but I guess
deploying that software is merely user demanded and your list is more
or less a quick guess? ...or are you about to offer some kind of
"public harddisk with easy web access"?

So what do the *users* actually want? Do they want to update their web
sites hosted by you? ...?

MfG, JBG

--
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 Signature of:                    Don't believe in miracles: Rely on them!
 the second  :

[Thomas Goirand]

Jan-Benedict Glaw wrote:
> I'd simply use ssh/sftp/sshfs, or (if you really want to host FTP with
> all its missing security) curlftpfs. Another way could be rsync
> access.

We do have ssh / sftp / scp access already, made in a chroot, and using
NSSMySQL for the user base.

> The point is: You created a list of needed features, but I guess
> deploying that software is merely user demanded and your list is more
> or less a quick guess? ...or are you about to offer some kind of
> "public harddisk with easy web access"?

Well, I'm the main author the only web hosting control panel for
commercial hosting that has ever been included in a distribution. On our
forum, many people requested this feature, as other solutions have it
(like maybe cPanel, Plesk, ... I'm not sure because I don't use them).
Now, this is NOT something that we will activate by default for our
shared hosting users, but as I see it, our VPS and dedicated users will
be quite happy to use an integrated web file manager. I don't see why
this would be unsafe for them, as anyway they might be the only persons
doing any kind of administration in their server. And for myself, I
think I'd be happy to use it as well, so I could edit the content of our
own website directly on the web (gplhost.com is made of pure HTML). If
the solution was secure enough, then why not for shared hosting users?

> So what do the *users* actually want? Do they want to update their web
> sites hosted by you? ...?

Yes, that's the point. And I only want to implement a feature that is
already present in many major commercial tools.

Somebody off the list advised for http://www.ajaxplorer.info/, I think
it's very good, but I didn't see at all the possibility to extract a
tar.gz archive (one of the major requirements).

Thomas


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[Carlos Acedo-4]

Hi,

You have some good ones here:
http://devsnippets.com/?p=2524

Regards

On 22/09/09 07:48, Thomas Goirand wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Because uploading thousands of files by FTP is both slow and stupid,
> plus quick edition of files is very nice, I'd love to have a file
> manager included in our hosting environment.
>
> I am willing to integrate a web file manager for our user to be able to:
> - see directories
> - extract or build tar.gz files
> - quick edit html or text content
> - etc.
>
> The issue is that there are tones of them available on the web, and I
> have no idea which one to choose.
>
> To be able to package it in Debian, I need (these are strictly REQUIRED,
> a project that doesn't have it is not a candidate):
> - DSFG free
> - identified and active upstream author that I can communicate with
> - Good security history
> - Widely used and tested
> - No windows icons or other copyrighted materials included
>
> For a good integration in our web hosting software, I need (these are
> strong specifics to my needs, but I could contribute them if missing):
> - Possibility to restrict usage to a specific folder (owned by the user)
> - easy to integrate in our open source panel that has it's own auth
> - make and extract tar.gz files (otherwise, what's the point?)
>
> Bonuses would be (eg: not required, but would be nice):
> - Not too ugly, easy to re-skin
> - Multiple languages supported using gettext()
> - Support for web specific stuffs like .htaccess, .html (wysiwyg?), .php
> with syntax highlighting, etc.
> - Nice progress bars when uploading big files
>
> Please give me suggestions, and in return, if a web file manager matches
> the above, I'll work on a Debian package that I will maintain, so that
> everyone will be able to use it. I've searched, and didn't find any in
> the archive, I think it's really missing (if anyone spotted one, let me
> know the name of the package).
>
> Thomas
>
>
>    

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[Thomas Goirand]

Carlos Acedo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> You have some good ones here:
> http://devsnippets.com/?p=2524
>
> Regards

Hi,

Thanks a lot for this excellent link.

Considering what I saw in that page, I am considering packaging both Ext
JS and eXtplorer.

The reason for my choice is that Ext JS is widely used, so I believe
that there's a better chance that there will be a nice support for it,
and it seems that eXtplorer is only a very simple application which has
most things implemented in Ext JS, plus eXplorer does all what I need,
and can work with both file access directly on the server, webdav or
FTP. It's also very easy to use, and I like quite a lot the right click,
the drag and drop functions, and the general way to use it. Plus the
auth seems easy to customize (a single file). Tt seems that there's all
sorts of nice web applications that could be packaged on top of ExtJS,
and I'm quite sure that packaging ExtJS will be useful to others.

Does anyone has objections or remembers seeing some bad security history
in ExtJS itself?

Thomas


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