What's a site like this one worth?

[J.B. Mentzer]

Coders,

Hi all ... I'm a lapsed CF 5 scripter that's looking to get back into the biz. A small off-set printer would like site like this one created: http://www.quickprint.com/

He'd like it to include an Admin area, where he can log in and change prices with a few clicks of the mouse.

What's the going rate for a site like this one?

Phase II would include functionality to allow users to create simple layouts for business stationary through the website, accepting credit card payments when they've approved the proof.

How much should I charge for Phase II?

Presently, I could code it using CF 5 and MS Access. I'm Mac based now (10.4.11) with Adobe CS 3.3 Extended installed. How steep is the learning curve between CF 5 and CF 8?

Thank you,

* JB *

JB Mentzer

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[phipps_73-2]

Hi JB,

In terms of price it really depends how long it will take you to write  
the code. This calculation comes from experience and sometimes you get  
it just right and other times completely wrong! The more projects you  
do the easier it becomes to price up projects. It also depends a lot  
on how much the client is willing to pay! You want to provide a fair  
price for the work you put in so try and break the site down into  
chunks which you can then price up and provide the client with a  
breakdown of the cost as well as the time involved.

In terms of the gap between cf5 and cf8, the main difference is that  
cf6 onwards compiles to Java instead of being written in C (or C++??).  
cf6 introduced cfc's and this is the major difference between cf5 and  
cf8 (along with a lot of other excellent features). CFC's are not  
required however so you can pretty much carry on as if you were using  
cf5 and cf8 will mostly be happy - there may be a few minor things  
which work differently or tags that are deprecated - see the livedocs.

I would recommend taking a look at some of the frameworks out there.  
Personally I use fusebox, but there are many others including Coldbox  
(have heard good things about this one), Model Glue, etc. There are  
also some useful frameworks for managing the connection to the  
database, including Reactor (my preference) and Transfer. And finally,  
ColdSpring which, at a basic level is used to manage your cfc's. CFC's  
are well worth looking at for creating reusable code. If you don't  
know OO then the learning curve can be a little steep but there are  
loads of docs out there and loads of great developers always willing  
to help you on the path.

In terms of a database I would strongly recommend avoiding Access.  
Access is not designed to handle web applications and will cope for  
small scale stuff but will start to fall over if more than 10 people  
try to access it at any one time. I would recommend using MySQL (my  
pref) or PostgreSQL. Coldfusion 8 supports MySQL out of the box and it  
can be run on pretty much any platform. There are some great tools out  
there for managing the MySQL database, all available from  
dev.mysql.com. The version you want is Community Edition 5.1.xx and it  
is free!

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Dave


On 16 Jan 2009, at 07:51, J.B. Mentzer wrote:

> Coders,
>
> Hi all ... I'm a lapsed CF 5 scripter that's looking to get back  
> into the biz. A small off-set printer would like site like this one  
> created: http://www.quickprint.com/
>
> He'd like it to include an Admin area, where he can log in and  
> change prices with a few clicks of the mouse.
>
> What's the going rate for a site like this one?
>
> Phase II would include functionality to allow users to create simple  
> layouts for business stationary through the website, accepting  
> credit card payments when they've approved the proof.
>
> How much should I charge for Phase II?
>
> Presently, I could code it using CF 5 and MS Access. I'm Mac based  
> now (10.4.11) with Adobe CS 3.3 Extended installed. How steep is the  
> learning curve between CF 5 and CF 8?
>
> Thank you,
>
> * JB *
>
> JB Mentzer
>
>

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[J.B. Mentzer]

David Phipps wrote:

> Hi JB,
>
> In terms of price it really depends how long it will take you to write  
> the code. This calculation comes from experience and sometimes you get  
> it just right and other times completely wrong! The more projects you  
> do the easier it becomes to price up projects. It also depends a lot  
> on how much the client is willing to pay! You want to provide a fair  
> price for the work you put in so try and break the site down into  
> chunks which you can then price up and provide the client with a  
> breakdown of the cost as well as the time involved.

What might a Senior-level programmer charge?

Yes. I've considered this. This will be my first new site since 2001, so
I'll be a little slow out of the gate.

I'm considering billing the client for the first two weeks of each
month. This would get some money in to offset the cost of CF 8 (I'm
aware of the free 30 day trial), yet not run up a huge bill if I get
stuck or want to explore a tangent.

I'm also hoping to build the new site in such a way that I can copy it,
and re-use parts of it for a subsequent project (stock image library for
my photography).


> there may be a few minor things  
> which work differently or tags that are deprecated - see the livedocs.

I have three sites running currently written in the 4.5/5 era ('99~'01),
I'll review the livedocs to see if I need to make changes.


> I would recommend taking a look at some of the frameworks out there.  

The site I built in 2001 has a partial Fusebox implementation. One
deviation: when coding sequential forms, I got in the habit of using
<CFSWITCH> to keep the form variables out of the URL.

I used the technique to add a feature to this site last summer ... I'd
like find a solution that is less time-intensive to code.



> Personally I use fusebox, but there are many others including Coldbox  
> (have heard good things about this one), Model Glue, etc. There are  
> also some useful frameworks for managing the connection to the  
> database, including Reactor (my preference) and Transfer. And finally,  
> ColdSpring which, at a basic level is used to manage your cfc's. CFC's  
> are well worth looking at for creating reusable code.

If only I could call the Operator and ask for a download, lol.

I'd like to re-acquaint myself with Fusebox; I'll look into Reactor, too.


 > IF you don't know OO then the learning curve can be a little steep

Help, please! Try as I might, I've never quite been able to get my head
around OO programming.


> In terms of a database I would strongly recommend avoiding Access.  

I'm Mac based again, and hope to remain so in the future. I'd like to
use MySQL ... just need to learn how to administrate it.



> There are some great tools out  there for managing the MySQL database,
 > all available from > dev.mysql.com. The version you want is
 > Community Edition 5.1.xx and it is free!

Free is for me!


> Hope this helps,

Yes! It gives me a starting point ... more questions to follow, lol.

Thank you,

* John *

> On 16 Jan 2009, at 07:51, J.B. Mentzer wrote:
>
>> Coders,
>>
>> Hi all ... I'm a lapsed CF 5 scripter that's looking to get back  
>> into the biz. A small off-set printer would like site like this one  
>> created: http://www.quickprint.com/
>>
>> He'd like it to include an Admin area, where he can log in and  
>> change prices with a few clicks of the mouse.
>>
>> What's the going rate for a site like this one?
>>
>> Phase II would include functionality to allow users to create simple  
>> layouts for business stationary through the website, accepting  
>> credit card payments when they've approved the proof.
>>
>> How much should I charge for Phase II?
>>
>> Presently, I could code it using CF 5 and MS Access. I'm Mac based  
>> now (10.4.11) with Adobe CS 3.3 Extended installed. How steep is the  
>> learning curve between CF 5 and CF 8?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> * JB *
>>
>> JB Mentzer
>>
>>
>
>

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[Larry Lyons]

> Coders,
>
> Hi all ... I'm a lapsed CF 5 scripter that's looking to get back into
> the biz. A small off-set printer would like site like this one
> created: http://www.quickprint.com/
>
> He'd like it to include an Admin area, where he can log in and change
> prices with a few clicks of the mouse.
>
> What's the going rate for a site like this one?
>
> Phase II would include functionality to allow users to create simple
> layouts for business stationary through the website, accepting credit
> card payments when they've approved the proof.
>
> How much should I charge for Phase II?
>
> Presently, I could code it using CF 5 and MS Access. I'm Mac based now
> (10.4.11) with Adobe CS 3.3 Extended installed. How steep is the
> learning curve between CF 5 and CF 8?

First off since you're working on a Mac (a recent MacIntosh I assume i.e., an Intel Mac), you'll be glad to know that CF8 installs very easily on the Mac. Second, don't use Access. As someone else suggested you can use MySQL on the Mac. There are quite a few front ends for MySQL that work quite well on the Mac, such as the MySQL Query Browser, and Cocoa MySQL.

As for the site, it looks fairly standard. I'd suggest work out the number of pages it would need, including the admin section, and a very rough guess on how long it would take to do each page. Then charge an hourly rate based on that. The hourly rate would really depend on where you are and how much experience you have, most likely something between $30 and $45 an hour depending on where you are.

You made mention of using Fusebox. Using a framework is a very good idea. However Fusebox has changed a great deal from 2001. You may want to check out these changes at the fusebox.org site.

hth,
larry


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[Larry Lyons]

I forgot to mention, if the cost of CF8 is a concern, there are now two free and open source versions of the CF engine, OpenBlueDragon and Railo 3.1 (to be released very shortly). These may be a good alternative for you.

since you've a bit of experience with CF you may want to get John Farrar's book The ColdFusion 8 Developer's Tutorial. Its very good for getting up to speed with CF 8.
http://www.amazon.com/ColdFusion-Developer-Tutorial-John-Farrar/dp/1847194125/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232113937&sr=8-4

hth,
larry

>David Phipps wrote:
>
>What might a Senior-level programmer charge?
>
>Yes. I've considered this. This will be my first new site since 2001, so
>I'll be a little slow out of the gate.
>
>I'm considering billing the client for the first two weeks of each
>month. This would get some money in to offset the cost of CF 8 (I'm
>aware of the free 30 day trial), yet not run up a huge bill if I get
>stuck or want to explore a tangent.
>
>I'm also hoping to build the new site in such a way that I can copy it,
>and re-use parts of it for a subsequent project (stock image library for
>my photography).
>
>
>> there may be a few minor things  
>> which work differently or tags that are deprecated - see the livedocs.
>
>I have three sites running currently written in the 4.5/5 era ('99~'01),
>I'll review the livedocs to see if I need to make changes.
>
>
>> I would recommend taking a look at some of the frameworks out there.  
>
>The site I built in 2001 has a partial Fusebox implementation. One
>deviation: when coding sequential forms, I got in the habit of using
><CFSWITCH> to keep the form variables out of the URL.
>
>I used the technique to add a feature to this site last summer ... I'd
>like find a solution that is less time-intensive to code.
>
>
>
>> Personally I use fusebox, but there are many others including Coldbox  
>> (have heard good things about this one), Model Glue, etc. There are  
>> also some useful frameworks for managing the connection to the  
>> database, including Reactor (my preference) and Transfer. And finally,  
>> ColdSpring which, at a basic level is used to manage your cfc's. CFC's  
>> are well worth looking at for creating reusable code.
>
>If only I could call the Operator and ask for a download, lol.
>
>I'd like to re-acquaint myself with Fusebox; I'll look into Reactor, too.
>
>
> > IF you don't know OO then the learning curve can be a little steep
>
>Help, please! Try as I might, I've never quite been able to get my head
>around OO programming.
>
>
>> In terms of a database I would strongly recommend avoiding Access.  
>
>I'm Mac based again, and hope to remain so in the future. I'd like to
>use MySQL ... just need to learn how to administrate it.
>
>
>
>> There are some great tools out  there for managing the MySQL database,
> > all available from > dev.mysql.com. The version you want is
> > Community Edition 5.1.xx and it is free!
>
>Free is for me!
>
>
>> Hope this helps,
>
>Yes! It gives me a starting point ... more questions to follow, lol.
>
>Thank you,
>
>* John *
>
>
>>

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[Dave Lyons-2]

If i was in your shoes I would do this...
Since most of the site is static and not a lot of admin stuff it should be rather simple.

Time frame: 2-4 weeks to finish
price: $750 site setup which would be basic look and feel of site and then $175 per page which should net you 5k - 7k. If it had more admin  controls then that would jump the $$ a lot.

Frameworks: Unless you have more dynamic stuff I dunno if I would mess with a framework, would take you longer to learn it then to just build the site, I might use transfer for your db calls though.

Since you wouldn't be using a a lot of the cfm 8 stuff I would run the free Railo server which will give you all you need and probably even run faster than cfm8 will.

Access isn't even a valid option IMO.

Mysql will be fine and it's a snap to learn.

Mysql tools.
cocoamysql is no longer but it is being redeveloped as Sequel Pro http://www.sequelpro.com/, which is decent I use it a bit sometimes and it's the best free one for a mac, the myql tools (from mysql) are junk.

I was a long time Navicat user which has a lot of good features but really I have never really totally liked it  and recently I figured out why. Navicat mostly develops for windows and the os x version is far behind the windows version and the app itself is bulky, slow & crashes a lot, really it acts a lot like a windows app & thats what I hate.

So in the last month or so I been looking for a navicat replacement which led me to sequel pro but sequel pro is missing some things right now, oh and navicat is kinda pricey, I think it is around $130 now which I think is a bit much even though I paid for this version but I don't think I will again.

So this all led me to Querious http://www.araelium.com/querious/ about 2 weeks ago, which is still in beta but won me over within my first day of using it and doesn't have the same bloated windows choking crud that navicat has and hasn't crashed on me once yet and I have it open 14-18 hrs a day. It is way more like a mac app, it's quick & light and stays outta the way without hogging ram like navicat. Actual it is a lot like a more advanced version of sequel pro. It isn't free but right now it's only $20 which I gladly paid over just using sequel pro.

But if you do stay with cfm 5 you and rick would be good buddies!





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[Sean Corfield]

On Sun, Jan 18, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Dave l <cflist@...> wrote:
> Frameworks: Unless you have more dynamic stuff I dunno if I would mess with a framework, would take you longer to learn it then to just build the site, I might use transfer for your db calls though.

I agree with Dave here. Learning a framework while you're trying to
crank out your first site in several years will just slow you down.
Even Fusebox has evolved dramatically over that time and would give
you a learning curve you don't need. I would apply that same logic to
Reactor or Transfer - even tho' they both save you doing any SQL and
boilerplate persistence code, they're a learning curve that will get
in the way of what you're trying to achieve (and they will force you
to learn/use CFCs). Do this project, then re-learn Fusebox, then learn
some CFC stuff, then learn Transfer ORM.

> Since you wouldn't be using a a lot of the cfm 8 stuff I would run the free Railo server which will give you all you need and probably even run faster than cfm8 will.

Much as the Adobe Community Expert in me baulks, I think Dave's
suggestion is fair if cost is really an issue. I use and like Railo a
lot and the 3.0 Community edition is free for commercial use and it is
very fast. It isn't as easy to install for a full-on production setup
however. You didn't talk much about the server setup for the client -
do they have a current site? Where/how is it hosted? What hosting
options have you considered for them?

> Mysql will be fine and it's a snap to learn.

Yup.

> cocoamysql is no longer but it is being redeveloped as Sequel Pro http://www.sequelpro.com/, which is decent I use it a bit sometimes and it's the best free one for a mac, the myql tools (from mysql) are junk.

I like Sequel Pro (after being a long time Cocoa MySQL fan).

> So this all led me to Querious http://www.araelium.com/querious/ about 2 weeks ago, which is still in beta but won me over within my first day of using it

Thanx. I'll check that out.
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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[J.B. Mentzer]

Larry Lyons wrote:
> there are now two free and open source versions of the CF engine, OpenBlueDragon and Railo 3.1 (to be released very shortly).

I installed and tried to run Railo 3 tonite. I ran the program using the
string "sh start.bat" ... it listed a few hundred lines in Terminal,
then seemed to get hung up.

Err ... lost?


These may be a good alternative for you.
>
> since you've a bit of experience with CF you may want to get John Farrar's book The ColdFusion 8 Developer's Tutorial. Its very good for getting up to speed with CF 8.
> http://www.amazon.com/ColdFusion-Developer-Tutorial-John-Farrar/dp/1847194125/ref=pd_bbs_sr_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1232113937&sr=8-4

I'll look into it ... add it to my collection of CF books. ;-)

Thank you!

* JB *


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[J.B. Mentzer]

I took a look at the SQL tools. Both SequelPro and Querious both say
MacOS 10.5. Is there one that works on 10.4.11?

Thank you,

* JB *


Dave l wrote:

> Mysql tools.
> cocoamysql is no longer but it is being redeveloped as Sequel Pro http://www.sequelpro.com/, which is decent I use it a bit sometimes and it's the best free one for a mac, the myql tools (from mysql) are junk.
>
> I was a long time Navicat user which has a lot of good features but really I have never really totally liked it  and recently I figured out why. Navicat mostly develops for windows and the os x version is far behind the windows version and the app itself is bulky, slow & crashes a lot, really it acts a lot like a windows app & thats what I hate.
>
> So in the last month or so I been looking for a navicat replacement which led me to sequel pro but sequel pro is missing some things right now, oh and navicat is kinda pricey, I think it is around $130 now which I think is a bit much even though I paid for this version but I don't think I will again.
>
> So this all led me to Querious http://www.araelium.com/querious/ about 2 weeks ago, which is still in beta but won me over within my first day of using it and doesn't have the same bloated windows choking crud that navicat has and hasn't crashed on me once yet and I have it open 14-18 hrs a day. It is way more like a mac app, it's quick & light and stays outta the way without hogging ram like navicat. Actual it is a lot like a more advanced version of sequel pro. It isn't free but right now it's only $20 which I gladly paid over just using sequel pro.
>
> But if you do stay with cfm 5 you and rick would be good buddies!
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[J.B. Mentzer]

Sean Corfield wrote:
> I agree with Dave here. Learning a framework while you're trying to
> crank out your first site in several years will just slow you down.

A goal for the next site I build is for it to be a template for future
sites. I'd like to be able to create another brochure site with
re-coding limited to displaying new user's content as much as possible.

The website/web applications I've built in the past, they were all
start-from-scratch one off projects. Doing that this time feels like a
step backwards.


 > Do this project, then re-learn Fusebox, then learn
 > some CFC stuff, then learn Transfer ORM.

Also, the client hasn't responded to my query for more info, so I have
some time to learn a framework before starting this project.

In the interim, I'd like to create a photo gallery site that will become
a stock image library.

Also, a photography site I created a while ago needs a re-skin.



>> Mysql will be fine and it's a snap to learn.

Ok. First thing I'll be looking for is a way to migrate the data in the
old Access databases to MySQL.

Thank you!

* JB *


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[Dave Lyons-2]

leopard really changed the cocoa and rendering so thats why you see mostly the leopard only apps coming because they are taking advantage of the new code.

you can look through these
http://osx.iusethis.com/search?q=mysql

you can always use navicat

>I took a look at the SQL tools. Both SequelPro and Querious both say
>MacOS 10.5. Is there one that works on 10.4.11?
>
>Thank you,
>
>* JB *
>
>
>Dave l wrote:
>
>>

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[Dave Lyons-2]

>Ok. First thing I'll be looking for is a way to migrate the data in the
>old Access databases to MySQL.

have fun with that!
navicat will do it on windows but not mac & the biggest issue you will have is the auto-inc field, generally the others are fine. If you can export the access db to sql, tab or csv it can be imported with most tools. Come to think of it mysql has a db migration toolkit that should do it. http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/gui-tools/5.0.html

Worst case you could make a cfm page that loops over the access db and if you recreate the table in mysql then grab the data from each row and insert it into mysql.. that would be fairly easy.

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[Dave Lyons-2]

> I agree with Dave here.
omg... OMFG!!!!!! lol
 

> then learn Transfer ORM.
transfer is the schniznit!! LOVE IT

 
> Much as the Adobe Community Expert in me baulks,
I know huh, I feel like such a cheater but after hearing you rave about it I gave it a go.


> It isn't as easy to install for a full-on production setup
Yeah that is a major issue for me right now. I have that apple xserve just sitting there lusting to be unleashed but I haven't been able to get it rolling yet.
If Railo had a os x installer it would be a no-brainer. You would think there would be some better info on installing it on a mac as there are so many mac developers anymore but there isn't a real world example to show us idiots the way.
Would like to see a production server info for apache, tomcat & railo, I have even emailed gert and offered to pay for some help and didn't even get a reply, lol.

My thought is that I would give Railo a good trial until cf9 comes out and if I like it great if not buy cf9.

 
> Thanx. I'll check that out.
help me with Railo and I will buy you a copy ;)~


> --
> Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
Coldfusion Rock Star


> "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
Hell I guess that means I am RELLLLLLLLLY alive lol

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[Sean Corfield]

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:50 PM, J.B. Mentzer <prr4828@...> wrote:
> I installed and tried to run Railo 3 tonite. I ran the program using the
> string "sh start.bat" ... it listed a few hundred lines in Terminal,
> then seemed to get hung up.
>
> Err ... lost?

I guess you're not used to running ColdFusion from the Terminal then? :)

When it is "hung up" it has started and it's ready for you to hit the
server with a browser. If you close the Terminal, you'll quit the
Railo process and shut down the server.

ColdFusion, Railo and OpenBD all behave the same in that respect.

Running the servers from the console is good practice for development
since you can see all messages logged there without having to root
around in log files and you can also see any debugging output you have
that uses console (such as <cfdump output="console"...> or <cflog
log="console"...>).

Hope that helps...
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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[Sean Corfield]

On Mon, Jan 19, 2009 at 10:56 PM, J.B. Mentzer <prr4828@...> wrote:
> I took a look at the SQL tools. Both SequelPro and Querious both say
> MacOS 10.5. Is there one that works on 10.4.11?

Cocoa MySQL runs fine on 10.4.*
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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[Sean Corfield]

On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Dave l <cflist@...> wrote:
> If Railo had a os x installer it would be a no-brainer. You would think there would be some better info on installing it on a mac as there are so many mac developers anymore but there isn't a real world example to show us idiots the way.
> Would like to see a production server info for apache, tomcat & railo, I have even emailed gert and offered to pay for some help and didn't even get a reply, lol.

All of these "suffer" from being standard Unix-style tools and
therefore you need some Unix chops to install and run them. That said,
once you know how the basics work, they're all really the same. Bottom
line: learn to love Terminal. I typically have six Terminal windows
open at any one time.

Unix tools usually work by:
- downloading the tar / tgz file
- opening Terminal
- unpacking the tar / tgz file (using tar xf filename.tar or tar xfz
filename.tgz)
- going into the app's 'bin' directory: cd bin or cd
full-package-version/bin or whatever
- starting the application, usually by running a shell script

Once it stops barfing into the Terminal window, it's up and running :)

I run ColdFusion 8 like that already because it's better for debugging:

/Developer/cf8/bin/jrun start cfusion

When I want to stop it, I just select that Terminal window and press ctl-C.

With Railo, you want the WAR file and copy it to Tomcat's webapps
directory and start Tomcat up. Then hit port 8080 in a browser and
you're off and running. JBoss is much the same (copy the WAR file to
JBoss's server/default/deploy/ directory and start JBoss).
--
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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[Dave Lyons-2]

> All of these "suffer" from being standard Unix-style tools and
> therefore you need some Unix chops to install and run them. That said,

yeah I know and I am tryin but you know how I am with terminal!


> With Railo, you want the WAR file and copy it to Tomcat's webapps
> directory and start Tomcat up. Then hit port 8080 in a browser and
> you're off and running.

I have that part which is easy but I just feel a bit unsure about running over 75 apps on it and getting it hooked up right to apache so I can use it to run tomcat and all the mod rewrite stuff & ssl certs, etc..


I feel itunes gift certs coming on!! haha


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[Dave Lyons-2]

This was my issue with resin, I just couldn't keep it running

>> I installed and tried to run Railo 3 tonite. I ran the program using the
>> string "sh start.bat" ... it listed a few hundred lines in Terminal,
>> then seemed to get hung up.
>>
>> Err ... lost?
>
>I guess you're not used to running ColdFusion from the Terminal then? :)
>
>When it is "hung up" it has started and it's ready for you to hit the
>server with a browser. If you close the Terminal, you'll quit the
>Railo process and shut down the server.
>
>ColdFusion, Railo and OpenBD all behave the same in that respect.
>
>Running the servers from the console is good practice for development
>since you can see all messages logged there without having to root
>around in log files and you can also see any debugging output you have
>that uses console (such as <cfdump output="console"...> or <cflog
>log="console"...>).
>
>Hope that helps...
>--
>Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
>An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
>
>"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
>-- Margaret Atwood

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[Gert Franz]

Dave,

if you need any help, just contact us (or me)...

Greetings from Switzerland
Gert Franz
Railo Technologies GmbH
gert.franz@...
www.railo.ch

Join our Mailing List
german:    http://de.groups.yahoo.com/group/railo/
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-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Dave l [mailto:cflist@...]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. Januar 2009 06:37
An: cf-mac
Betreff: Re: What's a site like this one worth?

> All of these "suffer" from being standard Unix-style tools and
> therefore you need some Unix chops to install and run them. That said,

yeah I know and I am tryin but you know how I am with terminal!


> With Railo, you want the WAR file and copy it to Tomcat's webapps
> directory and start Tomcat up. Then hit port 8080 in a browser and
> you're off and running.

I have that part which is easy but I just feel a bit unsure about running
over 75 apps on it and getting it hooked up right to apache so I can use it
to run tomcat and all the mod rewrite stuff & ssl certs, etc..


I feel itunes gift certs coming on!! haha




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[Mark Drew]

Here is a tip if you are running any process from the terminal:
Say you started Railo by doing:

>sudo ./httpd.sh


You will then get loads of output and the debugging, if you close that
window it will stop the process, i.e. kill it. so you dont want that window
hanging about do you? so hit Ctrl + z then type "bg" and it will background
the process, which  means you can close the window.


Maybe that was what was happening?

Mark Drew

- Adobe Community Expert
- Reactor ORM Project Manager
- CFEclipse Project Lead Developer
Blog: http://www.markdrew.co.uk/blog/
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/mdrew


On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 5:38 AM, Dave l <cflist@...> wrote:

> This was my issue with resin, I just couldn't keep it running
>
>
>
> >> I installed and tried to run Railo 3 tonite. I ran the program using the
> >> string "sh start.bat" ... it listed a few hundred lines in Terminal,
> >> then seemed to get hung up.
> >>
> >> Err ... lost?
> >
> >I guess you're not used to running ColdFusion from the Terminal then? :)
> >
> >When it is "hung up" it has started and it's ready for you to hit the
> >server with a browser. If you close the Terminal, you'll quit the
> >Railo process and shut down the server.
> >
> >ColdFusion, Railo and OpenBD all behave the same in that respect.
> >
> >Running the servers from the console is good practice for development
> >since you can see all messages logged there without having to root
> >around in log files and you can also see any debugging output you have
> >that uses console (such as <cfdump output="console"...> or <cflog
> >log="console"...>).
> >
> >Hope that helps...
> >--
> >Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
> >An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
> >
> >"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
> >-- Margaret Atwood
>
>

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