What's up

[Timothy M. Shead]

Folks:

Thought I'd give a quick update on where things are at - I am currently
working to get selection functionality back to normal; in a nutshell,
the selection data structures needed to be generalized in the same way
that geometric primitives have been generalized.  Interestingly, I'm
using mercurial to make a lot of small commits locally, before I push
the entire set of (large) changes all-at-once.  This is turning-out to
be a big win.  I have a lot of work distractions lately so no promises
on when, but I hope to wrap-up selection and hint mapping and release
0.8 soon.

Cheers,
Tim

[tshead.vcf]

---

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version:2.1
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---

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[bART Janssens-2]

On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Timothy M. Shead <tshead@...> wrote:
> Thought I'd give a quick update on where things are at - I am currently
> working to get selection functionality back to normal; in a nutshell,
> the selection data structures needed to be generalized in the same way
> that geometric primitives have been generalized.  Interestingly, I'm
> using mercurial to make a lot of small commits locally, before I push
> the entire set of (large) changes all-at-once.  This is turning-out to
> be a big win.  I have a lot of work distractions lately so no promises
> on when, but I hope to wrap-up selection and hint mapping and release
> 0.8 soon.

My main priorities are converting plugins to the new structure and
getting the painter cache up and running again. The latter contains
some severe bugs because I only did a quick and dirty conversion to
generic primitives, but these should be solved once we overhaul the
cache system, which is part of the hint mapping work.

Cheers,

--
Bart

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[bART Janssens-2]

On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
> that geometric primitives have been generalized.  Interestingly, I'm
> using mercurial to make a lot of small commits locally, before I push

Are you using mercurial, or git? I'd like to set up a local repository
here too, so it's probably best if we use the same. How do you
interface with the existing SVN repository?

Cheers,

--
Bart

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[Timothy M. Shead]

Bart Janssens wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
>> that geometric primitives have been generalized.  Interestingly, I'm
>> using mercurial to make a lot of small commits locally, before I push
>
> Are you using mercurial, or git? I'd like to set up a local repository
> here too, so it's probably best if we use the same. How do you
> interface with the existing SVN repository?

I've definitely settled on mercurial - I am using it with the
hgsubversion extension, YMMV.

Cheers,
Tim

[tshead.vcf]

---

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fn:Timothy Shead
n:Shead;Timothy
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email;internet:tshead@...
title:Founder
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:www.k-3d.org
version:2.1
end:vcard

---

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[Esben Stien]

"Timothy M. Shead" <tshead@...> writes:

> I've definitely settled on mercurial

Have you tried git?;).

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[Timothy M. Shead]

Esben Stien wrote:
> "Timothy M. Shead" <tshead@...> writes:
>
>> I've definitely settled on mercurial
>
> Have you tried git?;).
>

Yes - I don't want to insult anyone's favorite DVCS, but after giving
git an honest try, I dislike its interface pretty strongly at this point.

Cheers,
Tim


[tshead.vcf]

---

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fn:Timothy Shead
n:Shead;Timothy
org:www.k-3d.org
email;internet:tshead@...
title:Founder
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:www.k-3d.org
version:2.1
end:vcard

---

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[bART Janssens-2]

On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:

> Bart Janssens wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
>>> that geometric primitives have been generalized.  Interestingly, I'm
>>> using mercurial to make a lot of small commits locally, before I push
>>
>> Are you using mercurial, or git? I'd like to set up a local repository
>> here too, so it's probably best if we use the same. How do you
>> interface with the existing SVN repository?
>
> I've definitely settled on mercurial - I am using it with the
> hgsubversion extension, YMMV.

OK, I'm using hgsvn, which now has hgpushsvn as well. I see in the
repository that I goofed up somewhere, and undid and then redid your
latest LuxRender change, dunno why. Here's what I did:
- commit my changes to the eclipse workspace clone
- hgpullsvn in my svn copy
- pull from svn copy to eclipse clone
- merge changes in the svn clone
- push changes from the eclipse clone to the svn copy
- run hg update in the svn copy
- run hgpushsvn to commit changes

I think I missed something about how I can combine changes from both
SVN and myself. Either way, I'm convinced that Mercurial Eclipse will
work out fine for me, so as far as I'm concerned we can switch to
Mercurial as the main version control system.

Cheers,

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[Timothy M. Shead]

Bart Janssens wrote:

> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 5:12 PM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
>> Bart Janssens wrote:
>>> On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:55 AM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
>>>> that geometric primitives have been generalized.  Interestingly, I'm
>>>> using mercurial to make a lot of small commits locally, before I push
>>> Are you using mercurial, or git? I'd like to set up a local repository
>>> here too, so it's probably best if we use the same. How do you
>>> interface with the existing SVN repository?
>> I've definitely settled on mercurial - I am using it with the
>> hgsubversion extension, YMMV.
>
> OK, I'm using hgsvn, which now has hgpushsvn as well. I see in the
> repository that I goofed up somewhere, and undid and then redid your
> latest LuxRender change, dunno why. Here's what I did:

When your repository contains one set of changesets, and you pull from
another, you need to rebase - see

http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/RebaseProject

The main hurdle in adopting hg is the lack of CTest support, which
complicates things (you could still hack something together with a
script that updates the repository and then runs CTest, but all your
dashboard submissions would be experimental) ... this may be worth doing
if things go-on too long.

I guess another alternative would be to switch to hg for normal
development in the short-erm, but have a process of automatically
pushing changes to svn, where it would be accessible to dashboard clients.

Cheers,
Tim

[tshead.vcf]

---

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n:Shead;Timothy
org:www.k-3d.org
email;internet:tshead@...
title:Founder
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
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[bART Janssens-2]

On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
> The main hurdle in adopting hg is the lack of CTest support, which
> complicates things (you could still hack something together with a

Do you know if there is a chance we will see Mercurial support in
release of CTest anytime soon? I found these links:
http://www.mail-archive.com/cmake@.../msg17597.html
http://public.kitware.com/Bug/view.php?id=7879

There is very little response, however. Maybe we should bring it up
again on the CMake list?

> I guess another alternative would be to switch to hg for normal
> development in the short-erm, but have a process of automatically
> pushing changes to svn, where it would be accessible to dashboard clients.

Yes, this also has the advantage that the source code remains more
accessible, since I get the feeling people may be a bit scared by
having to use something "obscure" like Mercurial.

Cheers,

--
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[Timothy M. Shead]

Bart Janssens wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 6:32 AM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
>> The main hurdle in adopting hg is the lack of CTest support, which
>> complicates things (you could still hack something together with a
>
> Do you know if there is a chance we will see Mercurial support in
> release of CTest anytime soon? I found these links:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/cmake@.../msg17597.html
> http://public.kitware.com/Bug/view.php?id=7879
>
> There is very little response, however. Maybe we should bring it up
> again on the CMake list?

Sounds good ...

>> I guess another alternative would be to switch to hg for normal
>> development in the short-erm, but have a process of automatically
>> pushing changes to svn, where it would be accessible to dashboard clients.
>
> Yes, this also has the advantage that the source code remains more
> accessible, since I get the feeling people may be a bit scared by
> having to use something "obscure" like Mercurial.

Doing a (one-way) conversion from svn to hg is straightforward, and I've
setup the appropriate mapping from usernames to people.  So I can
lock-down svn and create the "official" hg starting-point whenever we're
ready.

In the meantime, I'm looking into "advanced" CTest scripting as a way to
incorporate hg into dashboard submission.

Cheers,
Tim


[tshead.vcf]

---

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n:Shead;Timothy
org:www.k-3d.org
email;internet:tshead@...
title:Founder
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version:2.1
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[bART Janssens-2]

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
> Doing a (one-way) conversion from svn to hg is straightforward, and I've
> setup the appropriate mapping from usernames to people.  So I can
> lock-down svn and create the "official" hg starting-point whenever we're
> ready.

Will we be hosting a "central" Mercurial repository, and if so, where?
I see from the Mercurial homepage that Google Code now supports it,
another choice would be http://bitbucket.org.

P.S. I figured out too late how to use rebase, so I goofed up the SVN
history again. I think I got it now, though, so it shouldn't happen
again.

Cheers,

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[Timothy M. Shead]

Bart Janssens wrote:
> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
>> Doing a (one-way) conversion from svn to hg is straightforward, and I've
>> setup the appropriate mapping from usernames to people.  So I can
>> lock-down svn and create the "official" hg starting-point whenever we're
>> ready.
>
> Will we be hosting a "central" Mercurial repository, and if so, where?
> I see from the Mercurial homepage that Google Code now supports it,
> another choice would be http://bitbucket.org.

I imagine that we would use our SourceForge hg repository as the
"official" repository to start, and that I would be responsible for
pushing changes to it.

Remember that part of the 'Zen' of DVCS is to embrace its fluid, ad-hoc,
decentralized nature, so nothing is set in stone.  In particular,
individual developers are on their own: they can email patches
(generated using hg), publish their repository temporarily from a
laptop, host their own server, use a hosting service, etc.  I plan to
use bitbucket.org and/or k-3d.com to publish my personal repository(ies).

> P.S. I figured out too late how to use rebase, so I goofed up the SVN
> history again. I think I got it now, though, so it shouldn't happen
> again.

FWIW, the root cause here is the fundamental "impedance mismatch"
between distributed and centralized version control systems - things
will work much more smoothly once we make the change to full Hg.

Cheers,
Tim

[tshead.vcf]

---

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fn:Timothy Shead
n:Shead;Timothy
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[Timothy M. Shead]

Timothy M. Shead wrote:

> Remember that part of the 'Zen' of DVCS is to embrace its fluid, ad-hoc,
> decentralized nature, so nothing is set in stone.  In particular,
> individual developers are on their own: they can email patches
> (generated using hg), publish their repository temporarily from a
> laptop, host their own server, use a hosting service, etc.  I plan to
> use bitbucket.org and/or k-3d.com to publish my personal repository(ies).

Following-up, I went-ahead and published my "selection" repository to
http://bitbucket.org/tshead/k3d/ ... note that this is mainly for
testing purposes, and anyone who is curious to follow my progress -
ultimately, I will merge this work back into the "main" svn repository.
  This is a good example of a "big" change that would otherwise have to
live in a private sandbox on one person's machine before getting
committed all-at-once.

Cheers,
Tim


[tshead.vcf]

---

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fn:Timothy Shead
n:Shead;Timothy
org:www.k-3d.org
email;internet:tshead@...
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version:2.1
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[bART Janssens-2]

On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 7:30 PM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
> Following-up, I went-ahead and published my "selection" repository to
> http://bitbucket.org/tshead/k3d/ ... note that this is mainly for
> testing purposes, and anyone who is curious to follow my progress -
> ultimately, I will merge this work back into the "main" svn repository.
>  This is a good example of a "big" change that would otherwise have to
> live in a private sandbox on one person's machine before getting
> committed all-at-once.

As mentioned, my repository is at http://k3d-bart.googlecode.com. I
intend to push my changes there from now on, and will no longer commit
to the SVN repository. How will we use the "central" Hg repository in
the future? Will you pull changes from all developer repositories, and
merge these to form the official repository?

Right now, I merge with SVN from time to time, and when it is set up I
will merge with the SF Hg repository. Should I also merge with your
bitbucket repository?

Cheers,

--
Bart

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[Timothy M. Shead]

Bart Janssens wrote:

> As mentioned, my repository is at http://k3d-bart.googlecode.com. I
> intend to push my changes there from now on, and will no longer commit
> to the SVN repository. How will we use the "central" Hg repository in
> the future? Will you pull changes from all developer repositories, and
> merge these to form the official repository?

Alright!  Now things are getting interesting.  To make them more
interesting ;) I've turned-off all svn access for the time being, so we
can see how things work.

Yes, in a nutshell developers should ping the list when they're ready to
have changesets "pulled".

Note that in this new world, the goal of a developer should be to
produce "the perfect changeset".  Because I'm going to be doing more
work, devs will have to make my job as easy as possible:

* You should try to capture a single, well-defined feature with your
changes.  It can be composed of multiple commits, but they should all be
related.  If you start a new feature while in the middle of another,
clone your repository or branch.  Cloning is your friend - it's a very
lightweight operation, so you should use it often.  Tip: clone your
repository before pulling in a big set of changes, it's an easy way to
back-out of messy merges.

* Changes must be rebased before posting - i.e. it's up to the dev to
handle merge conflicts.  Rebasing is your friend - it eliminates the
many annoying "merged with revision foo" messages that otherwise clutter
the repository.

> Right now, I merge with SVN from time to time, and when it is set up I
> will merge with the SF Hg repository. Should I also merge with your
> bitbucket repository?

It's totally up to you ... if you're interested, merge, if not, don't.
These changes will end-up in svn pretty-soon regardless
(selection-conversion is the only big item remaining).

Cheers,
Tim

[tshead.vcf]

---

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n:Shead;Timothy
org:www.k-3d.org
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title:Founder
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:www.k-3d.org
version:2.1
end:vcard

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[bART Janssens-2]

On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
>> There is very little response, however. Maybe we should bring it up
>> again on the CMake list?
>
> Sounds good ...

As a follow-up: Mercurial support is now in the CMake CVS repository,
see http://public.kitware.com/Bug/view.php?id=7879

Cheers,

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[Timothy M. Shead]

Bart Janssens wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 4:50 PM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
>>> There is very little response, however. Maybe we should bring it up
>>> again on the CMake list?
>> Sounds good ...
>
> As a follow-up: Mercurial support is now in the CMake CVS repository,
> see http://public.kitware.com/Bug/view.php?id=7879
>
> Cheers,
>

Sweeeet!  Building it now ... maybe we can make The Switch this weekend,
if things work well ...

Cheers,
Tim

[tshead.vcf]

---

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[bART Janssens-2]

On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
> Sweeeet!  Building it now ... maybe we can make The Switch this weekend,
> if things work well ...

It seems a Mercurial repository has magically appeared on the sf.net
site, however, it is unrelated to mine. This is probably because we
each had our own conversion from SVN to start with. I think I can fix
this by starting with a clone from the sf.net repository, and then
import all my changes since the my last SVN commit as patches?

Cheers,

--
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[Timothy M. Shead]

Bart Janssens wrote:
> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 5:41 PM, Timothy M. Shead<tshead@...> wrote:
>> Sweeeet!  Building it now ... maybe we can make The Switch this weekend,
>> if things work well ...
>
> It seems a Mercurial repository has magically appeared on the sf.net
> site, however, it is unrelated to mine. This is probably because we
> each had our own conversion from SVN to start with. I think I can fix
> this by starting with a clone from the sf.net repository, and then
> import all my changes since the my last SVN commit as patches?

Yes, I haven't had a chance to document things, but This Is It.  I
created the new repository using hg convert instead of hgsubversion.
The reason all the changesets are different is that they incorporate
full author information, instead of just svn usernames, which changes
all of the hashes.  You should be able to rebase your changes without
too much trouble.

I am still getting my new machine setup - it is a Mac Mini dual-booting
OSX and Ubuntu, so I've had to do everything twice.

Cheers,
Tim

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[Timothy M. Shead]

... is out there.  The best place to start is at the new

http://www.k-3d.org/wiki/Code

page in the wiki.

Cheers,
Tim

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