What is the state of turbine?

[Ludwig Magnusson-2]

Hello!

I am currently working in a big web application project with a few fellow
developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which framework
to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much. However the
others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in turbine at
the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a quite
cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main developer
(both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does not have
very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it comes to
object orienting, testing, database management and so on. Especially for
complex applications. We are now considering switching framework and we are
looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)

 

We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and struts (which
are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address the
things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic in the
kind of application we are developing. For instance no other framework seems
to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic feature since
validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on, if there
is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
group-role-based which we need.

 

So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And why?

I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications. Does
turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?

 

What I like and what I am looking for is this:

-          The security system - group-role-based

-          Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with velocity
is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they are very
readable. I don't like jsp.

-          The torque object model that is generated

-          A clear file structure for the environment. (What I like in
turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and then create
a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
permission check for all those pages)

 

The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really maven 2
compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to use
version 1.

 

I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used anymore and
I wonder why.

Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.

/Ludwig

[Juergen Hoffmann-2]

Hi Ludwig,

we have setup turbine to be built by m2. Turbine is not dead. Only the  
people developing on it, are either busy at their work, or involved  
into further uncouling of the core serivces inside the fulcrum project  
(Thomas Vandahl)

If you need support getting your app running and other things like  
build your app using m2, I can really help you.

Although there are only few active developers, the few know turbine to  
its bones. So just ask

Kind regards

Juergen

Am 05.11.2009 um 11:37 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:

> Hello!
>
> I am currently working in a big web application project with a few  
> fellow
> developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which  
> framework
> to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much.  
> However the
> others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in  
> turbine at
> the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a  
> quite
> cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main  
> developer
> (both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does  
> not have
> very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it comes to
> object orienting, testing, database management and so on. Especially  
> for
> complex applications. We are now considering switching framework and  
> we are
> looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)
>
>
>
> We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and  
> struts (which
> are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address  
> the
> things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic in  
> the
> kind of application we are developing. For instance no other  
> framework seems
> to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic feature  
> since
> validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on,  
> if there
> is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
> group-role-based which we need.
>
>
>
> So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And why?
>
> I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications.  
> Does
> turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?
>
>
>
> What I like and what I am looking for is this:
>
> -          The security system - group-role-based
>
> -          Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
> accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with  
> velocity
> is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they  
> are very
> readable. I don't like jsp.
>
> -          The torque object model that is generated
>
> -          A clear file structure for the environment. (What I like in
> turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and then  
> create
> a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
> permission check for all those pages)
>
>
>
> The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really maven 2
> compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to use
> version 1.
>
>
>
> I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used  
> anymore and
> I wonder why.
>
> Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.
>
> /Ludwig
>

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[Sheldon Ross]

I have used both Struts and Turbine, but for the couple production sites we run I use Turbine.
I've never really like the Bean/JSP approach Struts uses. Not a big fan of php either.
Once you understand exactly how Turbine works, it's extremely easy to do whatever you want with it.

Maybe its just me, but Turbine does everything I need and has for awhile. Maybe that contributes to why this list is quiet.

Just my ancedotal 2 cents,

Sheldon Ross

> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
> From: hoffmann@...
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:17:25 +0100
> To: user@...
>
> Hi Ludwig,
>
> we have setup turbine to be built by m2. Turbine is not dead. Only the  
> people developing on it, are either busy at their work, or involved  
> into further uncouling of the core serivces inside the fulcrum project  
> (Thomas Vandahl)
>
> If you need support getting your app running and other things like  
> build your app using m2, I can really help you.
>
> Although there are only few active developers, the few know turbine to  
> its bones. So just ask
>
> Kind regards
>
> Juergen
>
> Am 05.11.2009 um 11:37 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>
> > Hello!
> >
> > I am currently working in a big web application project with a few  
> > fellow
> > developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which  
> > framework
> > to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much.  
> > However the
> > others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in  
> > turbine at
> > the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a  
> > quite
> > cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main  
> > developer
> > (both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does  
> > not have
> > very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it comes to
> > object orienting, testing, database management and so on. Especially  
> > for
> > complex applications. We are now considering switching framework and  
> > we are
> > looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)
> >
> >
> >
> > We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and  
> > struts (which
> > are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address  
> > the
> > things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic in  
> > the
> > kind of application we are developing. For instance no other  
> > framework seems
> > to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic feature  
> > since
> > validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on,  
> > if there
> > is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
> > group-role-based which we need.
> >
> >
> >
> > So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And why?
> >
> > I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications.  
> > Does
> > turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?
> >
> >
> >
> > What I like and what I am looking for is this:
> >
> > -          The security system - group-role-based
> >
> > -          Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
> > accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with  
> > velocity
> > is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they  
> > are very
> > readable. I don't like jsp.
> >
> > -          The torque object model that is generated
> >
> > -          A clear file structure for the environment. (What I like in
> > turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and then  
> > create
> > a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
> > permission check for all those pages)
> >
> >
> >
> > The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really maven 2
> > compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to use
> > version 1.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used  
> > anymore and
> > I wonder why.
> >
> > Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.
> >
> > /Ludwig
> >
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
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[Tony Oslund-3]

Definitely my preferred tool of choice.

Tony Oslund

On Nov 5, 2009, at 12:34 PM, "Sheldon Ross" <ross_sheldon@...>  
wrote:

>
> I have used both Struts and Turbine, but for the couple production  
> sites we run I use Turbine.
> I've never really like the Bean/JSP approach Struts uses. Not a big  
> fan of php either.
> Once you understand exactly how Turbine works, it's extremely easy  
> to do whatever you want with it.
>
> Maybe its just me, but Turbine does everything I need and has for  
> awhile. Maybe that contributes to why this list is quiet.
>
> Just my ancedotal 2 cents,
>
> Sheldon Ross
>
>> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
>> From: hoffmann@...
>> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:17:25 +0100
>> To: user@...
>>
>> Hi Ludwig,
>>
>> we have setup turbine to be built by m2. Turbine is not dead. Only  
>> the
>> people developing on it, are either busy at their work, or involved
>> into further uncouling of the core serivces inside the fulcrum  
>> project
>> (Thomas Vandahl)
>>
>> If you need support getting your app running and other things like
>> build your app using m2, I can really help you.
>>
>> Although there are only few active developers, the few know turbine  
>> to
>> its bones. So just ask
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Juergen
>>
>> Am 05.11.2009 um 11:37 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>>
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> I am currently working in a big web application project with a few
>>> fellow
>>> developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which
>>> framework
>>> to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much.
>>> However the
>>> others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in
>>> turbine at
>>> the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a
>>> quite
>>> cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main
>>> developer
>>> (both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does
>>> not have
>>> very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it  
>>> comes to
>>> object orienting, testing, database management and so on. Especially
>>> for
>>> complex applications. We are now considering switching framework and
>>> we are
>>> looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and
>>> struts (which
>>> are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address
>>> the
>>> things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic in
>>> the
>>> kind of application we are developing. For instance no other
>>> framework seems
>>> to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic feature
>>> since
>>> validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on,
>>> if there
>>> is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
>>> group-role-based which we need.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And  
>>> why?
>>>
>>> I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications.
>>> Does
>>> turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What I like and what I am looking for is this:
>>>
>>> -          The security system - group-role-based
>>>
>>> -          Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
>>> accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with
>>> velocity
>>> is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they
>>> are very
>>> readable. I don't like jsp.
>>>
>>> -          The torque object model that is generated
>>>
>>> -          A clear file structure for the environment. (What I  
>>> like in
>>> turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and then
>>> create
>>> a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
>>> permission check for all those pages)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really maven 2
>>> compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to  
>>> use
>>> version 1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used
>>> anymore and
>>> I wonder why.
>>>
>>> Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> /Ludwig
>>>
>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...
>>
>
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[Ludwig Magnusson]

Let me reply to both Sheldon and Jürgen.
The main concern of my team is that the project will close down. What will
happened then? What if other frameworks develop interesting features and
turbine stays behind?

Jürgen:
I defenetly respect that people has other priorities and I most certaly do
not require anyone to put any time into this. But if the situation is as it
is, then I wonder if a few people busy at work and engaged in other projects
are enough to carry an open source framework like turbine. I really have no
idea what it takes.

Sheldon:
I also believe that turbine is stalbe and robust if you have an application
running it. But there is actually a lot of bugs connected to M.E.T.A and the
setting up of a new project.
Perhaps this is a thing that blocks new users?
/Ludwig

-----Original Message-----
From: Sheldon Ross [mailto:ross_sheldon@...]
Sent: den 5 november 2009 19:33
To: user@...
Subject: RE: What is the state of turbine?


I have used both Struts and Turbine, but for the couple production sites we
run I use Turbine.
I've never really like the Bean/JSP approach Struts uses. Not a big fan of
php either.
Once you understand exactly how Turbine works, it's extremely easy to do
whatever you want with it.

Maybe its just me, but Turbine does everything I need and has for awhile.
Maybe that contributes to why this list is quiet.

Just my ancedotal 2 cents,

Sheldon Ross

> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
> From: hoffmann@...
> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:17:25 +0100
> To: user@...
>
> Hi Ludwig,
>
> we have setup turbine to be built by m2. Turbine is not dead. Only the  
> people developing on it, are either busy at their work, or involved  
> into further uncouling of the core serivces inside the fulcrum project  
> (Thomas Vandahl)
>
> If you need support getting your app running and other things like  
> build your app using m2, I can really help you.
>
> Although there are only few active developers, the few know turbine to  
> its bones. So just ask
>
> Kind regards
>
> Juergen
>
> Am 05.11.2009 um 11:37 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>
> > Hello!
> >
> > I am currently working in a big web application project with a few  
> > fellow
> > developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which  
> > framework
> > to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much.  
> > However the
> > others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in  
> > turbine at
> > the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a  
> > quite
> > cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main  
> > developer
> > (both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does  
> > not have
> > very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it comes to
> > object orienting, testing, database management and so on. Especially  
> > for
> > complex applications. We are now considering switching framework and  
> > we are
> > looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)
> >
> >
> >
> > We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and  
> > struts (which
> > are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address  
> > the
> > things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic in  
> > the
> > kind of application we are developing. For instance no other  
> > framework seems
> > to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic feature  
> > since
> > validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on,  
> > if there
> > is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
> > group-role-based which we need.
> >
> >
> >
> > So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And why?
> >
> > I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications.  
> > Does
> > turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?
> >
> >
> >
> > What I like and what I am looking for is this:
> >
> > -          The security system - group-role-based
> >
> > -          Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
> > accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with  
> > velocity
> > is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they  
> > are very
> > readable. I don't like jsp.
> >
> > -          The torque object model that is generated
> >
> > -          A clear file structure for the environment. (What I like in
> > turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and then  
> > create
> > a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
> > permission check for all those pages)
> >
> >
> >
> > The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really maven 2
> > compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to use
> > version 1.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used  
> > anymore and
> > I wonder why.
> >
> > Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.
> >
> > /Ludwig
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...
>

     
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[Juergen Hoffmann-2]

Hi Ludwig,

I did not say that there is nobody working on turbine. You just have  
to understand that the turbine 2.3.3 release is pretty stable as it is  
right now. It provides tools for everything you need in web  
applications. Even JSON Integration.

M.E.T.A. is some years old. It was developed by Henning Schmiedehausen  
who is now the Velocity PMC Chair. Turbine has evolved many projects  
like maven and torque themselves.  That said, there has been a lot of  
development inside of turbine over the past years. Even a little too  
much. That said, the core developers are currently working on  
straightening up TRUNK.

fulcrum provides components which once coupled in turbine are now  
decoupled of it. If you have ever tried to decouple something  
yourself, you should agree, that this can be tedious work. Siegfried  
and Thomas are doing a wonderful job on doing just that. They are  
moving the build process over to a m2 build system as well.

And to be honest, I asked the same question you asked a couple of  
years ago http://markmail.org/thread/xaxk2fssigffu3ji As you can see  
now is 2009 and you can still get support.

Turbine 2.3.3 is well tested. There should be no problems inside the  
framework when you use it.

If you need m2, I can provide you with docs on how to set it up. Other  
than that, I have been using turbine for years, and it has never let  
me down, and there have not been things, i wasn't able to do with  
turbine.

Kind regards

Juergen Hoffmann

Am 05.11.2009 um 19:53 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:

> Let me reply to both Sheldon and Jürgen.
> The main concern of my team is that the project will close down.  
> What will
> happened then? What if other frameworks develop interesting features  
> and
> turbine stays behind?
>
> Jürgen:
> I defenetly respect that people has other priorities and I most  
> certaly do
> not require anyone to put any time into this. But if the situation  
> is as it
> is, then I wonder if a few people busy at work and engaged in other  
> projects
> are enough to carry an open source framework like turbine. I really  
> have no
> idea what it takes.
>
> Sheldon:
> I also believe that turbine is stalbe and robust if you have an  
> application
> running it. But there is actually a lot of bugs connected to M.E.T.A  
> and the
> setting up of a new project.
> Perhaps this is a thing that blocks new users?
> /Ludwig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sheldon Ross [mailto:ross_sheldon@...]
> Sent: den 5 november 2009 19:33
> To: user@...
> Subject: RE: What is the state of turbine?
>
>
> I have used both Struts and Turbine, but for the couple production  
> sites we
> run I use Turbine.
> I've never really like the Bean/JSP approach Struts uses. Not a big  
> fan of
> php either.
> Once you understand exactly how Turbine works, it's extremely easy  
> to do
> whatever you want with it.
>
> Maybe its just me, but Turbine does everything I need and has for  
> awhile.
> Maybe that contributes to why this list is quiet.
>
> Just my ancedotal 2 cents,
>
> Sheldon Ross
>
>> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
>> From: hoffmann@...
>> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:17:25 +0100
>> To: user@...
>>
>> Hi Ludwig,
>>
>> we have setup turbine to be built by m2. Turbine is not dead. Only  
>> the
>> people developing on it, are either busy at their work, or involved
>> into further uncouling of the core serivces inside the fulcrum  
>> project
>> (Thomas Vandahl)
>>
>> If you need support getting your app running and other things like
>> build your app using m2, I can really help you.
>>
>> Although there are only few active developers, the few know turbine  
>> to
>> its bones. So just ask
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Juergen
>>
>> Am 05.11.2009 um 11:37 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>>
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> I am currently working in a big web application project with a few
>>> fellow
>>> developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which
>>> framework
>>> to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much.
>>> However the
>>> others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in
>>> turbine at
>>> the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a
>>> quite
>>> cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main
>>> developer
>>> (both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does
>>> not have
>>> very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it  
>>> comes to
>>> object orienting, testing, database management and so on. Especially
>>> for
>>> complex applications. We are now considering switching framework and
>>> we are
>>> looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and
>>> struts (which
>>> are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address
>>> the
>>> things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic in
>>> the
>>> kind of application we are developing. For instance no other
>>> framework seems
>>> to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic feature
>>> since
>>> validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on,
>>> if there
>>> is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
>>> group-role-based which we need.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And  
>>> why?
>>>
>>> I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications.
>>> Does
>>> turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What I like and what I am looking for is this:
>>>
>>> -          The security system - group-role-based
>>>
>>> -          Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
>>> accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with
>>> velocity
>>> is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they
>>> are very
>>> readable. I don't like jsp.
>>>
>>> -          The torque object model that is generated
>>>
>>> -          A clear file structure for the environment. (What I  
>>> like in
>>> turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and then
>>> create
>>> a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
>>> permission check for all those pages)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really maven 2
>>> compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to  
>>> use
>>> version 1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used
>>> anymore and
>>> I wonder why.
>>>
>>> Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> /Ludwig
>>>
>>
>>
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>>
>  
> _________________________________________________________________
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> http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_
> MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
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[Thomas Vandahl-2]

On 05.11.09 19:53, Ludwig Magnusson wrote:
> Let me reply to both Sheldon and Jürgen.
> The main concern of my team is that the project will close down. What will
> happened then? What if other frameworks develop interesting features and
> turbine stays behind?

Well, this one is easy. If you see a feature missing, come on and
contribute. There is a proposal for OSGi integration, the new
architecture allows for easier extension etc etc. We will be happy to
integrate whatever seems to fit.

As you can see, we released more than a fistful of components to be
integrated in Turbine 4.0 alone this year. Dead projects look different.

> I also believe that turbine is stalbe and robust if you have an application
> running it. But there is actually a lot of bugs connected to M.E.T.A and the
> setting up of a new project.
> Perhaps this is a thing that blocks new users?

Difficult question. I never used META myself. In any case, feel free to
address whatever you feel needs to be changed. This is an open source
project after all.

Bye, Thomas.

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[Ludwig Magnusson]

Jürgen, the hero of the day!

Your mail touched the heart of my fellow developer and it now seems as if we
are going to use turbine.
I would really appreciate the documents on how to use M2.
/Ludwig

-----Original Message-----
From: Jürgen Hoffmann [mailto:hoffmann@...]
Sent: den 5 november 2009 20:55
To: Turbine Users List
Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?

Hi Ludwig,

I did not say that there is nobody working on turbine. You just have  
to understand that the turbine 2.3.3 release is pretty stable as it is  
right now. It provides tools for everything you need in web  
applications. Even JSON Integration.

M.E.T.A. is some years old. It was developed by Henning Schmiedehausen  
who is now the Velocity PMC Chair. Turbine has evolved many projects  
like maven and torque themselves.  That said, there has been a lot of  
development inside of turbine over the past years. Even a little too  
much. That said, the core developers are currently working on  
straightening up TRUNK.

fulcrum provides components which once coupled in turbine are now  
decoupled of it. If you have ever tried to decouple something  
yourself, you should agree, that this can be tedious work. Siegfried  
and Thomas are doing a wonderful job on doing just that. They are  
moving the build process over to a m2 build system as well.

And to be honest, I asked the same question you asked a couple of  
years ago http://markmail.org/thread/xaxk2fssigffu3ji As you can see  
now is 2009 and you can still get support.

Turbine 2.3.3 is well tested. There should be no problems inside the  
framework when you use it.

If you need m2, I can provide you with docs on how to set it up. Other  
than that, I have been using turbine for years, and it has never let  
me down, and there have not been things, i wasn't able to do with  
turbine.

Kind regards

Juergen Hoffmann

Am 05.11.2009 um 19:53 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:

> Let me reply to both Sheldon and Jürgen.
> The main concern of my team is that the project will close down.  
> What will
> happened then? What if other frameworks develop interesting features  
> and
> turbine stays behind?
>
> Jürgen:
> I defenetly respect that people has other priorities and I most  
> certaly do
> not require anyone to put any time into this. But if the situation  
> is as it
> is, then I wonder if a few people busy at work and engaged in other  
> projects
> are enough to carry an open source framework like turbine. I really  
> have no
> idea what it takes.
>
> Sheldon:
> I also believe that turbine is stalbe and robust if you have an  
> application
> running it. But there is actually a lot of bugs connected to M.E.T.A  
> and the
> setting up of a new project.
> Perhaps this is a thing that blocks new users?
> /Ludwig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sheldon Ross [mailto:ross_sheldon@...]
> Sent: den 5 november 2009 19:33
> To: user@...
> Subject: RE: What is the state of turbine?
>
>
> I have used both Struts and Turbine, but for the couple production  
> sites we
> run I use Turbine.
> I've never really like the Bean/JSP approach Struts uses. Not a big  
> fan of
> php either.
> Once you understand exactly how Turbine works, it's extremely easy  
> to do
> whatever you want with it.
>
> Maybe its just me, but Turbine does everything I need and has for  
> awhile.
> Maybe that contributes to why this list is quiet.
>
> Just my ancedotal 2 cents,
>
> Sheldon Ross
>
>> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
>> From: hoffmann@...
>> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:17:25 +0100
>> To: user@...
>>
>> Hi Ludwig,
>>
>> we have setup turbine to be built by m2. Turbine is not dead. Only  
>> the
>> people developing on it, are either busy at their work, or involved
>> into further uncouling of the core serivces inside the fulcrum  
>> project
>> (Thomas Vandahl)
>>
>> If you need support getting your app running and other things like
>> build your app using m2, I can really help you.
>>
>> Although there are only few active developers, the few know turbine  
>> to
>> its bones. So just ask
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Juergen
>>
>> Am 05.11.2009 um 11:37 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>>
>>> Hello!
>>>
>>> I am currently working in a big web application project with a few
>>> fellow
>>> developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which
>>> framework
>>> to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much.
>>> However the
>>> others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in
>>> turbine at
>>> the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a
>>> quite
>>> cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main
>>> developer
>>> (both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does
>>> not have
>>> very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it  
>>> comes to
>>> object orienting, testing, database management and so on. Especially
>>> for
>>> complex applications. We are now considering switching framework and
>>> we are
>>> looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and
>>> struts (which
>>> are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address
>>> the
>>> things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic in
>>> the
>>> kind of application we are developing. For instance no other
>>> framework seems
>>> to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic feature
>>> since
>>> validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on,
>>> if there
>>> is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
>>> group-role-based which we need.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And  
>>> why?
>>>
>>> I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications.
>>> Does
>>> turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What I like and what I am looking for is this:
>>>
>>> -          The security system - group-role-based
>>>
>>> -          Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
>>> accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with
>>> velocity
>>> is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they
>>> are very
>>> readable. I don't like jsp.
>>>
>>> -          The torque object model that is generated
>>>
>>> -          A clear file structure for the environment. (What I  
>>> like in
>>> turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and then
>>> create
>>> a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
>>> permission check for all those pages)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really maven 2
>>> compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to  
>>> use
>>> version 1.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used
>>> anymore and
>>> I wonder why.
>>>
>>> Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> /Ludwig
>>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...
>>
>  
> _________________________________________________________________
> Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.
>

http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_
> MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
>
>
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[Juergen Hoffmann-2]

Hi Ludwig,

glad to hear that. I will create an empty eclipse project file for you  
to use.

Kind regards

Juergen Hoffmann

Am 06.11.2009 um 10:09 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:

> Jürgen, the hero of the day!
>
> Your mail touched the heart of my fellow developer and it now seems  
> as if we
> are going to use turbine.
> I would really appreciate the documents on how to use M2.
> /Ludwig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jürgen Hoffmann [mailto:hoffmann@...]
> Sent: den 5 november 2009 20:55
> To: Turbine Users List
> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
>
> Hi Ludwig,
>
> I did not say that there is nobody working on turbine. You just have
> to understand that the turbine 2.3.3 release is pretty stable as it is
> right now. It provides tools for everything you need in web
> applications. Even JSON Integration.
>
> M.E.T.A. is some years old. It was developed by Henning Schmiedehausen
> who is now the Velocity PMC Chair. Turbine has evolved many projects
> like maven and torque themselves.  That said, there has been a lot of
> development inside of turbine over the past years. Even a little too
> much. That said, the core developers are currently working on
> straightening up TRUNK.
>
> fulcrum provides components which once coupled in turbine are now
> decoupled of it. If you have ever tried to decouple something
> yourself, you should agree, that this can be tedious work. Siegfried
> and Thomas are doing a wonderful job on doing just that. They are
> moving the build process over to a m2 build system as well.
>
> And to be honest, I asked the same question you asked a couple of
> years ago http://markmail.org/thread/xaxk2fssigffu3ji As you can see
> now is 2009 and you can still get support.
>
> Turbine 2.3.3 is well tested. There should be no problems inside the
> framework when you use it.
>
> If you need m2, I can provide you with docs on how to set it up. Other
> than that, I have been using turbine for years, and it has never let
> me down, and there have not been things, i wasn't able to do with
> turbine.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Juergen Hoffmann
>
> Am 05.11.2009 um 19:53 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>
>> Let me reply to both Sheldon and Jürgen.
>> The main concern of my team is that the project will close down.
>> What will
>> happened then? What if other frameworks develop interesting features
>> and
>> turbine stays behind?
>>
>> Jürgen:
>> I defenetly respect that people has other priorities and I most
>> certaly do
>> not require anyone to put any time into this. But if the situation
>> is as it
>> is, then I wonder if a few people busy at work and engaged in other
>> projects
>> are enough to carry an open source framework like turbine. I really
>> have no
>> idea what it takes.
>>
>> Sheldon:
>> I also believe that turbine is stalbe and robust if you have an
>> application
>> running it. But there is actually a lot of bugs connected to M.E.T.A
>> and the
>> setting up of a new project.
>> Perhaps this is a thing that blocks new users?
>> /Ludwig
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sheldon Ross [mailto:ross_sheldon@...]
>> Sent: den 5 november 2009 19:33
>> To: user@...
>> Subject: RE: What is the state of turbine?
>>
>>
>> I have used both Struts and Turbine, but for the couple production
>> sites we
>> run I use Turbine.
>> I've never really like the Bean/JSP approach Struts uses. Not a big
>> fan of
>> php either.
>> Once you understand exactly how Turbine works, it's extremely easy
>> to do
>> whatever you want with it.
>>
>> Maybe its just me, but Turbine does everything I need and has for
>> awhile.
>> Maybe that contributes to why this list is quiet.
>>
>> Just my ancedotal 2 cents,
>>
>> Sheldon Ross
>>
>>> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
>>> From: hoffmann@...
>>> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:17:25 +0100
>>> To: user@...
>>>
>>> Hi Ludwig,
>>>
>>> we have setup turbine to be built by m2. Turbine is not dead. Only
>>> the
>>> people developing on it, are either busy at their work, or involved
>>> into further uncouling of the core serivces inside the fulcrum
>>> project
>>> (Thomas Vandahl)
>>>
>>> If you need support getting your app running and other things like
>>> build your app using m2, I can really help you.
>>>
>>> Although there are only few active developers, the few know turbine
>>> to
>>> its bones. So just ask
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Juergen
>>>
>>> Am 05.11.2009 um 11:37 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>>>
>>>> Hello!
>>>>
>>>> I am currently working in a big web application project with a few
>>>> fellow
>>>> developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which
>>>> framework
>>>> to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much.
>>>> However the
>>>> others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in
>>>> turbine at
>>>> the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a
>>>> quite
>>>> cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main
>>>> developer
>>>> (both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does
>>>> not have
>>>> very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it
>>>> comes to
>>>> object orienting, testing, database management and so on.  
>>>> Especially
>>>> for
>>>> complex applications. We are now considering switching framework  
>>>> and
>>>> we are
>>>> looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and
>>>> struts (which
>>>> are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address
>>>> the
>>>> things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic  
>>>> in
>>>> the
>>>> kind of application we are developing. For instance no other
>>>> framework seems
>>>> to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic  
>>>> feature
>>>> since
>>>> validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on,
>>>> if there
>>>> is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
>>>> group-role-based which we need.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And
>>>> why?
>>>>
>>>> I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications.
>>>> Does
>>>> turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What I like and what I am looking for is this:
>>>>
>>>> -          The security system - group-role-based
>>>>
>>>> -          Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
>>>> accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with
>>>> velocity
>>>> is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they
>>>> are very
>>>> readable. I don't like jsp.
>>>>
>>>> -          The torque object model that is generated
>>>>
>>>> -          A clear file structure for the environment. (What I
>>>> like in
>>>> turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and  
>>>> then
>>>> create
>>>> a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
>>>> permission check for all those pages)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really  
>>>> maven 2
>>>> compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to
>>>> use
>>>> version 1.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used
>>>> anymore and
>>>> I wonder why.
>>>>
>>>> Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> /Ludwig
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...
>>>
>>  
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.
>>
> http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_
>> MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...
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>
>
>
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[Ludwig Magnusson]

Great!
Do you mean a project that contains a pom-file and properties files for
turbine, velocity and torque?
Or did I misunderstand?
/Ludwig


-----Original Message-----
From: Jürgen Hoffmann [mailto:hoffmann@...]
Sent: den 6 november 2009 10:37
To: Turbine Users List
Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?

Hi Ludwig,

glad to hear that. I will create an empty eclipse project file for you  
to use.

Kind regards

Juergen Hoffmann

Am 06.11.2009 um 10:09 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:

> Jürgen, the hero of the day!
>
> Your mail touched the heart of my fellow developer and it now seems  
> as if we
> are going to use turbine.
> I would really appreciate the documents on how to use M2.
> /Ludwig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jürgen Hoffmann [mailto:hoffmann@...]
> Sent: den 5 november 2009 20:55
> To: Turbine Users List
> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
>
> Hi Ludwig,
>
> I did not say that there is nobody working on turbine. You just have
> to understand that the turbine 2.3.3 release is pretty stable as it is
> right now. It provides tools for everything you need in web
> applications. Even JSON Integration.
>
> M.E.T.A. is some years old. It was developed by Henning Schmiedehausen
> who is now the Velocity PMC Chair. Turbine has evolved many projects
> like maven and torque themselves.  That said, there has been a lot of
> development inside of turbine over the past years. Even a little too
> much. That said, the core developers are currently working on
> straightening up TRUNK.
>
> fulcrum provides components which once coupled in turbine are now
> decoupled of it. If you have ever tried to decouple something
> yourself, you should agree, that this can be tedious work. Siegfried
> and Thomas are doing a wonderful job on doing just that. They are
> moving the build process over to a m2 build system as well.
>
> And to be honest, I asked the same question you asked a couple of
> years ago http://markmail.org/thread/xaxk2fssigffu3ji As you can see
> now is 2009 and you can still get support.
>
> Turbine 2.3.3 is well tested. There should be no problems inside the
> framework when you use it.
>
> If you need m2, I can provide you with docs on how to set it up. Other
> than that, I have been using turbine for years, and it has never let
> me down, and there have not been things, i wasn't able to do with
> turbine.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Juergen Hoffmann
>
> Am 05.11.2009 um 19:53 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>
>> Let me reply to both Sheldon and Jürgen.
>> The main concern of my team is that the project will close down.
>> What will
>> happened then? What if other frameworks develop interesting features
>> and
>> turbine stays behind?
>>
>> Jürgen:
>> I defenetly respect that people has other priorities and I most
>> certaly do
>> not require anyone to put any time into this. But if the situation
>> is as it
>> is, then I wonder if a few people busy at work and engaged in other
>> projects
>> are enough to carry an open source framework like turbine. I really
>> have no
>> idea what it takes.
>>
>> Sheldon:
>> I also believe that turbine is stalbe and robust if you have an
>> application
>> running it. But there is actually a lot of bugs connected to M.E.T.A
>> and the
>> setting up of a new project.
>> Perhaps this is a thing that blocks new users?
>> /Ludwig
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sheldon Ross [mailto:ross_sheldon@...]
>> Sent: den 5 november 2009 19:33
>> To: user@...
>> Subject: RE: What is the state of turbine?
>>
>>
>> I have used both Struts and Turbine, but for the couple production
>> sites we
>> run I use Turbine.
>> I've never really like the Bean/JSP approach Struts uses. Not a big
>> fan of
>> php either.
>> Once you understand exactly how Turbine works, it's extremely easy
>> to do
>> whatever you want with it.
>>
>> Maybe its just me, but Turbine does everything I need and has for
>> awhile.
>> Maybe that contributes to why this list is quiet.
>>
>> Just my ancedotal 2 cents,
>>
>> Sheldon Ross
>>
>>> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
>>> From: hoffmann@...
>>> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:17:25 +0100
>>> To: user@...
>>>
>>> Hi Ludwig,
>>>
>>> we have setup turbine to be built by m2. Turbine is not dead. Only
>>> the
>>> people developing on it, are either busy at their work, or involved
>>> into further uncouling of the core serivces inside the fulcrum
>>> project
>>> (Thomas Vandahl)
>>>
>>> If you need support getting your app running and other things like
>>> build your app using m2, I can really help you.
>>>
>>> Although there are only few active developers, the few know turbine
>>> to
>>> its bones. So just ask
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Juergen
>>>
>>> Am 05.11.2009 um 11:37 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>>>
>>>> Hello!
>>>>
>>>> I am currently working in a big web application project with a few
>>>> fellow
>>>> developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which
>>>> framework
>>>> to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much.
>>>> However the
>>>> others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in
>>>> turbine at
>>>> the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a
>>>> quite
>>>> cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main
>>>> developer
>>>> (both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does
>>>> not have
>>>> very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it
>>>> comes to
>>>> object orienting, testing, database management and so on.  
>>>> Especially
>>>> for
>>>> complex applications. We are now considering switching framework  
>>>> and
>>>> we are
>>>> looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and
>>>> struts (which
>>>> are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address
>>>> the
>>>> things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic  
>>>> in
>>>> the
>>>> kind of application we are developing. For instance no other
>>>> framework seems
>>>> to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic  
>>>> feature
>>>> since
>>>> validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on,
>>>> if there
>>>> is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
>>>> group-role-based which we need.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And
>>>> why?
>>>>
>>>> I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications.
>>>> Does
>>>> turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What I like and what I am looking for is this:
>>>>
>>>> -          The security system - group-role-based
>>>>
>>>> -          Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
>>>> accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with
>>>> velocity
>>>> is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they
>>>> are very
>>>> readable. I don't like jsp.
>>>>
>>>> -          The torque object model that is generated
>>>>
>>>> -          A clear file structure for the environment. (What I
>>>> like in
>>>> turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and  
>>>> then
>>>> create
>>>> a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
>>>> permission check for all those pages)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really  
>>>> maven 2
>>>> compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to
>>>> use
>>>> version 1.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used
>>>> anymore and
>>>> I wonder why.
>>>>
>>>> Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> /Ludwig
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...
>>>
>>  
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.
>>
>

http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_

>> MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
>> For additional commands, e-mail: user-help@...
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: user-unsubscribe@...
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[Ludwig Magnusson]

Hi Jürgen!
I have now configured a skeleton turbine project with torque for maven 2.
If you still have some files for me I would appreciate them. Always good
with input.
/Ludwig

-----Original Message-----
From: Jürgen Hoffmann [mailto:hoffmann@...]
Sent: den 6 november 2009 10:37
To: Turbine Users List
Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?

Hi Ludwig,

glad to hear that. I will create an empty eclipse project file for you  
to use.

Kind regards

Juergen Hoffmann

Am 06.11.2009 um 10:09 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:

> Jürgen, the hero of the day!
>
> Your mail touched the heart of my fellow developer and it now seems  
> as if we
> are going to use turbine.
> I would really appreciate the documents on how to use M2.
> /Ludwig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jürgen Hoffmann [mailto:hoffmann@...]
> Sent: den 5 november 2009 20:55
> To: Turbine Users List
> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
>
> Hi Ludwig,
>
> I did not say that there is nobody working on turbine. You just have
> to understand that the turbine 2.3.3 release is pretty stable as it is
> right now. It provides tools for everything you need in web
> applications. Even JSON Integration.
>
> M.E.T.A. is some years old. It was developed by Henning Schmiedehausen
> who is now the Velocity PMC Chair. Turbine has evolved many projects
> like maven and torque themselves.  That said, there has been a lot of
> development inside of turbine over the past years. Even a little too
> much. That said, the core developers are currently working on
> straightening up TRUNK.
>
> fulcrum provides components which once coupled in turbine are now
> decoupled of it. If you have ever tried to decouple something
> yourself, you should agree, that this can be tedious work. Siegfried
> and Thomas are doing a wonderful job on doing just that. They are
> moving the build process over to a m2 build system as well.
>
> And to be honest, I asked the same question you asked a couple of
> years ago http://markmail.org/thread/xaxk2fssigffu3ji As you can see
> now is 2009 and you can still get support.
>
> Turbine 2.3.3 is well tested. There should be no problems inside the
> framework when you use it.
>
> If you need m2, I can provide you with docs on how to set it up. Other
> than that, I have been using turbine for years, and it has never let
> me down, and there have not been things, i wasn't able to do with
> turbine.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Juergen Hoffmann
>
> Am 05.11.2009 um 19:53 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>
>> Let me reply to both Sheldon and Jürgen.
>> The main concern of my team is that the project will close down.
>> What will
>> happened then? What if other frameworks develop interesting features
>> and
>> turbine stays behind?
>>
>> Jürgen:
>> I defenetly respect that people has other priorities and I most
>> certaly do
>> not require anyone to put any time into this. But if the situation
>> is as it
>> is, then I wonder if a few people busy at work and engaged in other
>> projects
>> are enough to carry an open source framework like turbine. I really
>> have no
>> idea what it takes.
>>
>> Sheldon:
>> I also believe that turbine is stalbe and robust if you have an
>> application
>> running it. But there is actually a lot of bugs connected to M.E.T.A
>> and the
>> setting up of a new project.
>> Perhaps this is a thing that blocks new users?
>> /Ludwig
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Sheldon Ross [mailto:ross_sheldon@...]
>> Sent: den 5 november 2009 19:33
>> To: user@...
>> Subject: RE: What is the state of turbine?
>>
>>
>> I have used both Struts and Turbine, but for the couple production
>> sites we
>> run I use Turbine.
>> I've never really like the Bean/JSP approach Struts uses. Not a big
>> fan of
>> php either.
>> Once you understand exactly how Turbine works, it's extremely easy
>> to do
>> whatever you want with it.
>>
>> Maybe its just me, but Turbine does everything I need and has for
>> awhile.
>> Maybe that contributes to why this list is quiet.
>>
>> Just my ancedotal 2 cents,
>>
>> Sheldon Ross
>>
>>> Subject: Re: What is the state of turbine?
>>> From: hoffmann@...
>>> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:17:25 +0100
>>> To: user@...
>>>
>>> Hi Ludwig,
>>>
>>> we have setup turbine to be built by m2. Turbine is not dead. Only
>>> the
>>> people developing on it, are either busy at their work, or involved
>>> into further uncouling of the core serivces inside the fulcrum
>>> project
>>> (Thomas Vandahl)
>>>
>>> If you need support getting your app running and other things like
>>> build your app using m2, I can really help you.
>>>
>>> Although there are only few active developers, the few know turbine
>>> to
>>> its bones. So just ask
>>>
>>> Kind regards
>>>
>>> Juergen
>>>
>>> Am 05.11.2009 um 11:37 schrieb Ludwig Magnusson:
>>>
>>>> Hello!
>>>>
>>>> I am currently working in a big web application project with a few
>>>> fellow
>>>> developers. When we started out we were discussing a lot on which
>>>> framework
>>>> to use. I was familiar with turbine and I liked it very much.
>>>> However the
>>>> others were skeptical since there is very few persons involved in
>>>> turbine at
>>>> the moment. We decided to work with php and Zend and we have made a
>>>> quite
>>>> cool alpha version of out app. However, me and the other main
>>>> developer
>>>> (both computer engineers) have realized that the php community does
>>>> not have
>>>> very good understanding of concepts as best practices when it
>>>> comes to
>>>> object orienting, testing, database management and so on.  
>>>> Especially
>>>> for
>>>> complex applications. We are now considering switching framework  
>>>> and
>>>> we are
>>>> looking at java-based frameworks. (Because java rules)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have looked at other apache frameworks such as tapestry and
>>>> struts (which
>>>> are much more active). But to me it seems as if they do not address
>>>> the
>>>> things that I really like about turbine and that I feel are basic  
>>>> in
>>>> the
>>>> kind of application we are developing. For instance no other
>>>> framework seems
>>>> to have a user class (or interface) which I think is a basic  
>>>> feature
>>>> since
>>>> validations on the user are done on almost every page. Further on,
>>>> if there
>>>> is some kind of permission system, it is always role-based and not
>>>> group-role-based which we need.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So my question is.. Is turbine dying? Or is it already dead? And
>>>> why?
>>>>
>>>> I am not _that_ experienced in developing complex web applications.
>>>> Does
>>>> turbine have some kind of major flaw that I don't see?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What I like and what I am looking for is this:
>>>>
>>>> -          The security system - group-role-based
>>>>
>>>> -          Tight integration with velocity (which of course can be
>>>> accomplished in other frameworks as struts). And what I like with
>>>> velocity
>>>> is that the templates looks very much like static html, i.e. they
>>>> are very
>>>> readable. I don't like jsp.
>>>>
>>>> -          The torque object model that is generated
>>>>
>>>> -          A clear file structure for the environment. (What I
>>>> like in
>>>> turbine is that I can create a folder for x number of pages and  
>>>> then
>>>> create
>>>> a default.java class in the corresponding package and have the same
>>>> permission check for all those pages)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The biggest flaw I think turbine has is that it isn't really  
>>>> maven 2
>>>> compatible. I really like working with maven, but I prefer not to
>>>> use
>>>> version 1.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm just sending this since I think it's sad that it is not used
>>>> anymore and
>>>> I wonder why.
>>>>
>>>> Any reply/discussion would be appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> /Ludwig
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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