Where is the "Sign In" on Amazon.com?

[Amy Silvers-2]

I'm always signed in (at the most basic level of recognition) on
Amazon, so I had to check to see what the experience looks like if
you've signed out. There is an explicit sign-in link, though the
linked part of the sentence mentions personalized recommendations
rather than "sign in." It's at top center rather than top right,
which is a little unconventional, but it's still noticeable--and the
way it's phrased ("Sign in to get personalized recommendations")
calls out the main benefit of signing in if you're just browsing:
the recommendations. Otherwise, unless you're checking order status,
it seems to me that there's no obvious benefit to signing in until
you check out, so there's no particular need for a sign-in link.

If you are checking something to do with an order, payment, refund,
etc., clicking Your Account instead of Sign In seems natural enough.
The sign-in area on the main account page is clearly set off from the
rest of the page. In general, I like the fact that you aren't
prompted to sign in until you need to.


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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[Etienne Maujean]

In fact, common users don't look for a "sign in"button, because
they don't think like experts.

Their main goal is to actually do something on the site (like edit
their account settings for example) but they don't know if they
would have to sign in before doing it, and honestly, they don't
care. They look for the thing they want to do, and see if they have
to sign in.


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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[Dan Zollman]

I agree. The key problem for me is that Amazon is the only site where
I have to click on "My Account" before signing in rather than
after. Until I got used to that, I would look around the page for a
sign in link, confused about whether or not I was authenticated.

Another problem I had, which came with knowing how cookies work, is
that I wasn't sure whether changes to my shopping would be saved if
I didn't hunt down that login form. (Of course Amazon wanted me to
edit my cart without logging in at all, but took me a while to
realize that. In addition, I expect and intend that websites will
forget me when I close my browser.)

I guess you have to think a certain way for this to be a problem, and
it probably doesn't ultimately drive any customers away.


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[Lauren Martin]

I agree with you Russell. I find this very annoying and I am a
frequent Amazon shopper. I know better, but I still find my self
having to take note of where and how to log in because it is not
intuitive.

I agree with Medina, they are not setting proper expectations. People
scan websites, and read link text more than regular page text. When I
scan the header I read "Personalized Recommendations" which I
visualize as a list of recommended products, not a login screen.

As far as the reference to Spools 3 million dollar change, I agree
that users shouldn't be forced to login, but that can be solved by
simply not requiring it. Making the login hard to spot and not
immediately recognizable only makes it harder for current customers
to log in.


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[Russell Wilson-2]

I always stumble when signing in to Amazon (I may be the only one, I don't
know).
Does anyone have any background information on why they chose to break with
convention (for signing in)?  See my very small post on this --

http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/06/29/where-is-the-sign-in-on-amazon-com/


--------
Russell Wilson
Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS
Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson
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[Anne Hjortshoj-2]

I'd be willing to bet it's a direct reflection of their registration
process, which (I think?) follows the more -recent- convention of
"don't make the user register until there's a clear benefit to doing
so," i.e., until there's a clear contextual reason to do so -- buying
a book, for example, or saving items to a wish list.

What's the benefit of an obvious call to sign in, vs. the way Amazon
currently does this? Other than the sense that having a sign-in button
is a convention and something that people (or specifically, web
designers) expect?

-Anne

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Russell Wilson<russ.wilson@...> wrote:

> I always stumble when signing in to Amazon (I may be the only one, I don't
> know).
> Does anyone have any background information on why they chose to break with
> convention (for signing in)?  See my very small post on this --
>
> http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/06/29/where-is-the-sign-in-on-amazon-com/
>
>
> --------
> Russell Wilson
> Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS
> Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss@...
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
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>

--
Anne Hjortshoj | anne.hj@... | www.annehj.com | Skype: anne-hj
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[Diego Moya]

Maybe they have read *this* and wanted to collect their $300,000,000...

The $300 Million Button
http://www.uie.com/articles/three_hund_million_button

(Short answer: forcing buyers to register cost sales, so that
convention doesn't work for stores).
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[Russell Wilson-2]

But I'm not talking about "forcing" people to register to buy... I just want
an easy way to log in that doesn't break with convention and force me to
think about it every time...
I totally agree that you should be able to buy something without
registering.


--------
Russell Wilson
Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS
Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Diego Moya <turingt@...> wrote:

> Maybe they have read *this* and wanted to collect their $300,000,000...
>
> The $300 Million Button
> http://www.uie.com/articles/three_hund_million_button
>
> (Short answer: forcing buyers to register cost sales, so that
> convention doesn't work for stores).
>
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[Russell Wilson-2]

I'm guessing that "signing in" is an abstract step along the path to what
the use really wants and they are attempting to bypass it. In other words,
as a user I never really want to "sign in" - what I want is to look at past
orders or see personalized recommendations. BUT, signing in is so much a
part of popular convention that it is expected. Amazon's way may
theoretically be better but it forces users to retrain themselves and modify
their behavior/thought process for Amazon's site versus other sites.
--------
Russell Wilson
Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS
Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Diego Moya <turingt@...> wrote:

> Maybe they have read *this* and wanted to collect their $300,000,000...
>
> The $300 Million Button
> http://www.uie.com/articles/three_hund_million_button
>
> (Short answer: forcing buyers to register cost sales, so that
> convention doesn't work for stores).
>
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[Andrei Herasimchuk-2]

If you click the "personalized recommendations" link it takes you to  
sign in. Why not make the "sign in" text a link instead? I have no  
idea who did this or what their thinking was.

My only guess would be they might have information that more of their  
audience behaves like I do... that is, I never sign in until I'm ready  
to check out. I've never even noticed or thought about a sign in link  
on Amazon until you pointed it out. I always browse first, then sign  
in only when I think I actually need something, and the point I do  
that is always at the start of the checkout process.

But it's speculation. Someone from Amazon would need to chime in.

--
Andrei Herasimchuk

Chief Design Officer, Involution Studios
innovating the digital world

e. andrei@...
c. [phone]

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[Scott McDaniel-2]

Is the problem you're seeing (and I totally get) because Amazon spells
out "Sign In" prior to and apart from
the actions?


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Russell Wilson<russ.wilson@...> wrote:
> I'm guessing that "signing in" is an abstract step along the path to what
> the use really wants and they are attempting to bypass it. In other words,
> as a user I never really want to "sign in" - what I want is to look at past
> orders or see personalized recommendations. BUT, signing in is so much a
> part of popular convention that it is expected. Amazon's way may
> theoretically be better but it forces users to retrain themselves and modify
> their behavior/thought process for Amazon's site versus other sites.
> --------
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[Russell Wilson-2]

Essentially yes.  My first thought always is to want to click "sign in".
 When I can't I look to see if I'm already signed in.  When I realize I'm
not, I look for a "sign in" link... and when I don't find that I click any
of the links in order to "sign in"...
Maybe I'm crazy... :-)


--------
Russell Wilson
Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS
Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Scott McDaniel <scott@...>wrote:

> Is the problem you're seeing (and I totally get) because Amazon spells
> out "Sign In" prior to and apart from
> the actions?
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Russell Wilson<russ.wilson@...>
> wrote:
> > I'm guessing that "signing in" is an abstract step along the path to what
> > the use really wants and they are attempting to bypass it. In other
> words,
> > as a user I never really want to "sign in" - what I want is to look at
> past
> > orders or see personalized recommendations. BUT, signing in is so much a
> > part of popular convention that it is expected. Amazon's way may
> > theoretically be better but it forces users to retrain themselves and
> modify
> > their behavior/thought process for Amazon's site versus other sites.
> > --------
>

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[Oleh Kovalchuke]

It's "Your Account" link. The landing page shows all possible options
upfront (including "Sign In" box). I think its clever, never had problems
with that.

Oleh Kovalchuke
Interaction Design is design of time
http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Russell Wilson <russ.wilson@...>wrote:

> I always stumble when signing in to Amazon (I may be the only one, I don't
> know).
> Does anyone have any background information on why they chose to break with
> convention (for signing in)?  See my very small post on this --
>
> http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/06/29/where-is-the-sign-in-on-amazon-com/
>
>
> --------
> Russell Wilson
> Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS
> Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson
> ________________________________________________________________
> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
> To post to this list ....... discuss@...
> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
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>

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[Russell Wilson-2]

I think a big part of the problem is:
Hello. Sign in to get personalized
recommendations<http://www.amazon.com/gp/yourstore/ref=pd_irl_gw?ie=UTF8&signIn=1>.
New customer? Start
here<http://www.amazon.com/gp/flex/sign-out.html/ref=pd_irl_gw_r?ie=UTF8&path=%2Fgp%2Fyourstore&signIn=1&useRedirectOnSuccess=1&action=sign-out>
.

The linking seems off (I expect "Sign in" to be a link)





--------
Russell Wilson
Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS
Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com
LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@...>wrote:

> It's "Your Account" link. The landing page shows all possible options
> upfront (including "Sign In" box). I think its clever, never had problems
> with that.
>
> Oleh Kovalchuke
> Interaction Design is design of time
> http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Russell Wilson <russ.wilson@...>wrote:
>
>> I always stumble when signing in to Amazon (I may be the only one, I don't
>> know).
>> Does anyone have any background information on why they chose to break
>> with
>> convention (for signing in)?  See my very small post on this --
>>
>> http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/06/29/where-is-the-sign-in-on-amazon-com/
>>
>>
>> --------
>> Russell Wilson
>> Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS
>> Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com
>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson
>>  ________________________________________________________________
>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>> To post to this list ....... discuss@...
>> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
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>>
>
>

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[Oleh Kovalchuke]

Hello. Sign in to get personalized
recommendations<http://www.amazon.com/gp/yourstore/ref=pd_irl_gw?ie=UTF8&signIn=1>.


Yes, that "looks like" noise (they might have quantified the impact in A/B
tests, I assume foolishly).

New customer? Start
here<http://www.amazon.com/gp/flex/sign-out.html/ref=pd_irl_gw_r?ie=UTF8&path=%2Fgp%2Fyourstore&signIn=1&useRedirectOnSuccess=1&action=sign-out>
.

This could have been grouped with My Account link.


Oleh Kovalchuke
Interaction Design is design of time
http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm



On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Russell Wilson <russ.wilson@...>wrote:

> I think a big part of the problem is:
> Hello. Sign in to get personalized recommendations<http://www.amazon.com/gp/yourstore/ref=pd_irl_gw?ie=UTF8&signIn=1>.
> New customer? Start here<http://www.amazon.com/gp/flex/sign-out.html/ref=pd_irl_gw_r?ie=UTF8&path=%2Fgp%2Fyourstore&signIn=1&useRedirectOnSuccess=1&action=sign-out>
> .
>
> The linking seems off (I expect "Sign in" to be a link)
>
>
>
>
>
> --------
> Russell Wilson
> Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS
> Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson
>
>
>   On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@...
> > wrote:
>
>> It's "Your Account" link. The landing page shows all possible options
>> upfront (including "Sign In" box). I think its clever, never had problems
>> with that.
>>
>> Oleh Kovalchuke
>> Interaction Design is design of time
>> http://www.tangospring.com/IxDtopicWhatIsInteractionDesign.htm
>>
>>
>>   On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 9:38 AM, Russell Wilson <russ.wilson@...>wrote:
>>
>>>  I always stumble when signing in to Amazon (I may be the only one, I
>>> don't
>>> know).
>>> Does anyone have any background information on why they chose to break
>>> with
>>> convention (for signing in)?  See my very small post on this --
>>>
>>> http://www.dexodesign.com/2009/06/29/where-is-the-sign-in-on-amazon-com/
>>>
>>>
>>> --------
>>> Russell Wilson
>>> Vice President of Product Design, NetQoS
>>> Blog: http://www.dexodesign.com
>>> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/russwilson
>>> ________________________________________________________________
>>> Welcome to the Interaction Design Association (IxDA)!
>>> To post to this list ....... discuss@...
>>> Unsubscribe ................ http://www.ixda.org/unsubscribe
>>> List Guidelines ............ http://www.ixda.org/guidelines
>>> List Help .................. http://www.ixda.org/help
>>>
>>
>>
>

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[force10x]

Interesting. I thought I was the only one having this issue with
Amazon.com.

Another issue I have is with the "Sign out", which again they
don't have. instead Amazon prefers (Not XYZ?)

Being different for different sake???


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
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[Eva Kaniasty]

I've had the same problem with Amazon, and had to actually train myself to
look for that other link when I have to sign in (which has been sometimes
necessary, if, for example, i want to see a wish list, but am on an
unfamiliar computer).

I don't buy the idea that users don't look for sign-in.  I'd be more
inclined to believe that sign-in has become a convention in itself that
anyone who has used the web for any length of time is familiar with.
Whether or not it conceptually makes sense to sign in first, I think users
become trained to do things a certain way without thinking about it, and
removing that functionality seems off-base.  I am not arguing that sign-in
shouldn't be seamlessly integrated into checkout as well, I just think that
it doesn't make sense to remove it as a separate function.

-eva


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:11 AM, Etienne <etienne.maujean@...> wrote:

> In fact, common users don't look for a "sign in"button, because
> they don't think like experts.
>
> Their main goal is to actually do something on the site (like edit
> their account settings for example) but they don't know if they
> would have to sign in before doing it, and honestly, they don't
> care. They look for the thing they want to do, and see if they have
> to sign in.
>
>
> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
> Posted from the new ixda.org
> http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43262
>
>
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[Jim Drew / CFM Designs]

On Jul 6, 2009, at 6:51 AM, eva kaniasty wrote:

> I don't buy the idea that users don't look for sign-in.  I'd be more
> inclined to believe that sign-in has become a convention in itself  
> that
> anyone who has used the web for any length of time is familiar with.
> Whether or not it conceptually makes sense to sign in first, I think  
> users
> become trained to do things a certain way without thinking about it,  
> and
> removing that functionality seems off-base.  I am not arguing that  
> sign-in
> shouldn't be seamlessly integrated into checkout as well, I just  
> think that
> it doesn't make sense to remove it as a separate function.

I completely buy it.  I've never looked for a sign in option at Amazon

We talk about (gripe about) software coders who create UIs that serve  
their programmatic model rather than the user?  Well, you're doing the  
same thing here: "I know that a user is going to have to sign in to  
complete the transaction, so I want to know where that control is and  
how it operates and how to sign out."

But what Amazon arguably wants to be is a Wal*Mart (god forgive me for  
saying so!).   At such a store, by walking in the door, you are  
assumed to be a customer, someone who is going to buy something, even  
if that's just a candy bar.  They don't have a guard at the door  
saying "What's your name?  Show me your credit card!", but instead  
they have someone saying "Welcome to the store!  Enjoy shopping!"

By assuming that if you're there, you're going to buy something -- and  
if not this time, the next one -- they take that "Show me your ID"  
gruffness out of the equation, saving it for the time when it is  
actually needed, at the purchase transaction.  And in doing so, they  
remove/reduce the opportunities for users to get fed up with the  
questioning and just leave.



And in contrast, today I did my monthly visit to the Science Fiction  
Book Club website to say "Nope, don't what this month's offered books,  
don't send them."   This site *doesn't* remember that I've been there  
before.  So I have to go to the upper right corner to sign in -- to a  
link usually partially off-screen because they assume I'll have a non-
portrait shaped browser window (but I do), rather than a username/
password control.  And that takes me to a page where I have to choose  
either to Sign In or create a new account -- again, not to a username/
password control.  And that takes me to a username/password control...  
which have my saved credentials already filled in.  Talk about wanting  
the returning customer to feel like they are annoying you!  (Actually,  
I fib slightly.  That's the flow from a couple months ago.  they've at  
least merged the 2nd and 3rd screens, which reduces the annoyance by a  
factor of 2, but they still don't put it on the front page or sign me  
in automatically, still making it 4 times as annoying as Amazon's  
method.)

-- Jim
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[Todd Zaki Warfel]

On Jul 7, 2009, at 3:18 AM, Jim Drew wrote:

> [...] by walking in the door, you are assumed to be a customer,  
> someone who is going to buy something, even if that's just a candy  
> bar.  They don't have a guard at the door saying "What's your name?  
> Show me your credit card!", but instead they have someone saying  
> "Welcome to the store!  Enjoy shopping!"

Perfect example.


Cheers!

Todd Zaki Warfel
Principal Design Researcher
Messagefirst | Designing Information. Beautifully.
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In theory, theory and practice are the same.
In practice, they are not.




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[Stephen Dondershine]

I am a long time User of Amazon and have never gotten used to the
foibles of trying to sign in, especially considering that the site
itself prominently uses the term "sign-in" when you are *not*
signed in, therefore creating the expectation that there will be a
"sign in" link or button *somewhere.* I think Walmart is a faulty
analogy: Amazon is more like Costco or any other "shopping club" as
there are quite a few functional perks only available to members (wish
list, shopping list, amazon prime, recs. etc.)  I think that anyone
that uses Amazon more than a few times or does more than casual
browsing will register and have at least a list or two. It's hard
for me to imagine that Amazon would invest so heavily in all that
"membercentric" functionality if many of their customers weren't
using it, or if they were 1 time buyers who never come back or insist
on remaining anonymous. Let's also not forget that some people
regularly clear their cookie cash as part of system maintenance, so
they may need to sign in fairly frequently rather than having it be a
very rare occurrence.


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Posted from the new ixda.org
http://www.ixda.org/discuss?post=43262


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